Posts belonging to Category 'Asthma Breathing Exercises'

Race report

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident. Obviously you are not embarrassed and are an athlete of considerable stature. LOL! Could you tell me some of the races you have won over the past year or any other notable placings. I am surprised you have not been profiled in the running mags for your impressive 2% body fat but I suppose you are probably running 250 miles a week. Have you considered going down to 1 percent? I mean nothing says fast like a six footer who weighs 110 pounds!

Perhaps he can’t remember any race that he won. Perhaps he can’t remember any race he entered. Perhaps he can’t run as fast as he can type! Jay

Response:

Hey macelroy, I am sure that I am not the only one here who simply looks at your posts and considers them the tragically pitiful rantings of a dementia infested mind. If you are trying to be a little advocate instigator boy you need some sort of debate coaching because you fail as this also. Best of luck in trying to succeed in something, Jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident. I would like to know the time! It gives a complete picture. It helps me understand your training sessions too. troy Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I once did diet down to 133 pounds. The problem was that it was during the Winter and I got a cold and I associated the cold with the weight loss but a cold is a virus and the weight loss had nothing to do with it. It’s a possible long term goal to get down that low but I’m more concerned with the last 12 pounds I need to lose to get down to my old running weight. Keep in mind that I was 23 pounds heavier when I lost a race to a 2:14 marathoner in a half marathon race due to stupid race tactics and getting lost on the course. I was so incredibly physically superior to him that day that it was like a crime to lose to him for these dumb ass reasons. I got so damn angry afterward that I smashed in a huge dent in the trunk of a car with my bare fists. That was the last major race I ran several years ago and I’ll always remember that too being so overpowering and domineering and still somehow managing to lose the race. I couldn’t believe it. But sometimes weird things happen beyond anyone’s control and I just have to forget about it and move on.

Hmm, so this was a major race – yet you got lost on the course – hmm, this would be one of those poorly marked major races then, would it? Larf! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident. Obviously you are not embarrassed and are an athlete of considerable stature. LOL! Could you tell me some of the races you have won over the past year or any other notable placings. I am surprised you have not been profiled in the running mags for your impressive 2% body fat but I suppose you are probably running 250 miles a week. Have you considered going down to 1 percent? I mean nothing says fast like a six footer who weighs 110 pounds! Before you buy.

– Testing something – please ignore… Test over… Before you buy.

Response:

Keep in mind that I was 23 pounds heavier when I lost a race to a 2:14 marathoner in a half marathon

You actually lost!!!!! My faith is shattered. race due to stupid race tactics and getting lost on the course. I was so incredibly physically superior to him that day that it was like a crime to lose to him for these dumb ass reasons. I got so damn angry afterward that I smashed in a huge dent in the trunk of a car with my bare fists.

I doubt that very much. Actually Mike Tyson was standing there and you hit him so hard that when he went down his head made the dent in the trunk of the car. (doesn’t this version sound a lot better???) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That was the last major race I ran several years ago and I’ll always remember that too being so overpowering and domineering and still somehow managing to lose the race. I couldn’t believe it. But sometimes weird things happen beyond anyone’s control and I just have to forget about it and move on.

Response:

That’s not my purpose. If a mathematician sees a bad calculation and a bad answer what is he doing to do, just sit there. This is no different. I am trying to separate the right from the wrong, the good from the bad, lead you in the right direction and give you the correct answers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey macelroy, I am sure that I am not the only one here who simply looks at your posts and considers them the tragically pitiful rantings of a dementia infested mind. If you are trying to be a little advocate instigator boy you need some sort of debate coaching because you fail as this also. Best of luck in trying to succeed in something, Jenn I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident. I would like to know the time! It gives a complete picture. It helps me understand your training sessions too. troy Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Now I think you are beginning to understand. I am for real and I don’t play around and my values and expectations and training knowledge are at a much higher level than most people here. Some people here know absolutely nothing. I’m trying to straighten that out. Others here have pieces of the puzzle but without all the pieces combined, they will never run great. How do I know that? Because I’ve been there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have reconsidered. I no longer agree with my earlier statements about the pitifulness of macelroy. I don’t really come to this NG very often and typed too soon. Good luck with your return to racing. Good luck in spite of all your cockiness, attitude and motor mouth, and maybe even because of it. Best of luck, Jenn Hey macelroy, I am sure that I am not the only one here who simply looks at your posts and considers them the tragically pitiful rantings of a dementia infested mind. If you are trying to be a little advocate instigator boy you need some sort of debate coaching because you fail as this also. Best of luck in trying to succeed in something, Jenn I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident. I would like to know the time! It gives a complete picture. It helps me understand your training sessions too. troy Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

That’s correct and I had about a 1 minute lead at the half-way mark until I got lost. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I once did diet down to 133 pounds. The problem was that it was during the Winter and I got a cold and I associated the cold with the weight loss but a cold is a virus and the weight loss had nothing to do with it. It’s a possible long term goal to get down that low but I’m more concerned with the last 12 pounds I need to lose to get down to my old running weight. Keep in mind that I was 23 pounds heavier when I lost a race to a 2:14 marathoner in a half marathon race due to stupid race tactics and getting lost on the course. I was so incredibly physically superior to him that day that it was like a crime to lose to him for these dumb ass reasons. I got so damn angry afterward that I smashed in a huge dent in the trunk of a car with my bare fists. That was the last major race I ran several years ago and I’ll always remember that too being so overpowering and domineering and still somehow managing to lose the race. I couldn’t believe it. But sometimes weird things happen beyond anyone’s control and I just have to forget about it and move on. Hmm, so this was a major race – yet you got lost on the course – hmm, this would be one of those poorly marked major races then, would it? Larf! I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident. Obviously you are not embarrassed and are an athlete of considerable stature. LOL! Could you tell me some of the races you have won over the past year or any other notable placings. I am surprised you have not been profiled in the running mags for your impressive 2% body fat but I suppose you are probably running 250 miles a week. Have you considered going down to 1 percent? I mean nothing says fast like a six footer who weighs 110 pounds! Before you buy. — Testing something – please ignore… Test over… Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Hi, I have reconsidered. I no longer agree with my earlier statements about the pitifulness of macelroy. I don’t really come to this NG very often and typed too soon. Good luck with your return to racing. Good luck in spite of all your cockiness, attitude and motor mouth, and maybe even because of it. Best of luck, Jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey macelroy, I am sure that I am not the only one here who simply looks at your posts and considers them the tragically pitiful rantings of a dementia infested mind. If you are trying to be a little advocate instigator boy you need some sort of debate coaching because you fail as this also. Best of luck in trying to succeed in something, Jenn I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident. I would like to know the time! It gives a complete picture. It helps me understand your training sessions too. troy Before you buy.

Response:

It’s called immune system supression, folks, with dehydration contributing, except Maceloser probably thinks it was negative thoughts that did it It’s a possible long term goal to get down that low but I’m more concerned with the last 12 pounds I need to lose to get down to my old running weight.

Now it’s 12 lbs to lose, at 2% bodyfat…. Keep in mind that I was 23 pounds heavier when I lost a race to a 2:14 marathoner in a half marathon race due to stupid race tactics and getting lost on the course.

‘Cause obviously, he couldn’t be better than you…. I was so incredibly physically superior to him that day that it was like a crime to lose to him for these dumb ass reasons. I got so damn angry afterward that I smashed in a huge dent in the trunk of a car with my bare fists.

No, that was the stupid part. That was the last major race I ran several years ago and I’ll always remember that too being so overpowering and domineering

Overpowering and domineering? To bad the other guy was just faster. and still somehow managing to lose the race. I couldn’t believe it.

But we can. But sometimes weird things happen beyond anyone’s control and I just have to forget about it and move on.

You’ve made a lousy start. BobMac

Response:

I found out the next day just how full out it was as my legs felt thoroughly trashed. This is probably the most wiped out they’ve felt since I started running again. Whatever I did last night, it was _definitely_ a full out effort. Notes for next time: Don’t think so darn much during the race!

Bob, I chose to snip to this point because this is where I started to laugh. If you didn’t think so much then we would not have had a chance to read your wonderfully detailed report! Laura

Response:

I would like to know the time! It gives a complete picture. It helps me understand your training sessions too. troy

Response:

I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident.

Obviously you are not embarrassed and are an athlete of considerable stature. LOL! Could you tell me some of the races you have won over the past year or any other notable placings. I am surprised you have not been profiled in the running mags for your impressive 2% body fat but I suppose you are probably running 250 miles a week. Have you considered going down to 1 percent? I mean nothing says fast like a six footer who weighs 110 pounds!

Response:

Before you buy.

Response:

Actually, I once did diet down to 133 pounds. The problem was that it was during the Winter and I got a cold and I associated the cold with the weight loss but a cold is a virus and the weight loss had nothing to do with it. It’s a possible long term goal to get down that low but I’m more concerned with the last 12 pounds I need to lose to get down to my old running weight. Keep in mind that I was 23 pounds heavier when I lost a race to a 2:14 marathoner in a half marathon race due to stupid race tactics and getting lost on the course. I was so incredibly physically superior to him that day that it was like a crime to lose to him for these dumb ass reasons. I got so damn angry afterward that I smashed in a huge dent in the trunk of a car with my bare fists. That was the last major race I ran several years ago and I’ll always remember that too being so overpowering and domineering and still somehow managing to lose the race. I couldn’t believe it. But sometimes weird things happen beyond anyone’s control and I just have to forget about it and move on. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doubtful that he will tell you because I think he is kind of embarrassed about it. And that is all right with us because we all know that not everyone can be fast and most people don’t have very good coaching or know how to train properly so there are a lot of strikes against a person running fast except sometimes by accident. Obviously you are not embarrassed and are an athlete of considerable stature. LOL! Could you tell me some of the races you have won over the past year or any other notable placings. I am surprised you have not been profiled in the running mags for your impressive 2% body fat but I suppose you are probably running 250 miles a week. Have you considered going down to 1 percent? I mean nothing says fast like a six footer who weighs 110 pounds!

Before you buy.

Response:

Friday 7/7 starting at 7 (pm) we ran our numerologically correct Midsummer Night’s Mile. Conditions were almost perfect, including temperature in the low 80’s (rather than the low 90’s that are more typical), a light breeze, low humidity. And, as this was a mile, we had the advantage of an english unit track, 440 yards even so there was no problem with a long first lap. The training preparation had gone about as I’d wanted, with a nice ‘pace’ workout on Tuesday, a light day on Wednesday, and Thursday off. My continuing ‘rest of life’ situation, which had been kind of dormant for a while, chose Thursday and Friday to reactivate. This is good news in the larger scheme of things, but did provide a major increase to the stress and distractability levels prior to the race. The track was also covered with mown grass. I’m allergic to it, so was concered about asthma/breathing problems during the race. Stress also makes the two worse, so double concern. Not enough to get me to go the 100m back to my car for the inhaler, just unproductive what-iffing. Argh. The heats were run from slow to fast, with my goal putting me in the 5th of 7. (My in-hand time put me in the 4th, but I figured I have to go for the goal. Press on and be optimistic.) I’d arrived quite early, partly because of the commute, and partly just to get into the race presence as it were. Being in a late heat added to the delay. Probably not a good thing as the mental gears were spinning pretty fast and didn’t have much to chew on except the r.o.l. situation, about which nothing could be done anyhow. [I'll mix metaphors if I darn well please! Word-tender at your service.] My prior observation applied: Regardless of how fast they were, the people who finished to the back of a heat looked ’slow’. Considering that the range of ‘last’ was 4:55 to somewhere around 8:00, one gets a reminder of how things can be relative. Still, there is a range of details. In the first heat or two, there were indeed some folks who looked like they didn’t have good form — bouncing a lot, heels hitting ahead of them, arms not really being part of the motion. In the third, we got to people who weren’t doing things that looked obviously wrong. And in the fourth, we were to people who looked like they were running _well_. Good, strong consistent strides. Distractable as I was, this served for another. "Here I am signed up for the next, even faster heat and these folks already look like they’re running pretty fast!" But the 4th heat had a good note for me, even though I wasn’t in it. A friend I’m running with in our track practices was in it. We’d been talking some about running the mile, and I’d talked him in to trying to race it (not that this was difficult). Also I’d given him my thoughts about how to prepare and how to race and was his cheering section during the race. He did, fortunately, also check out some other sources. As he runs ahead of me in practice, I was surprised that he hadn’t signed up for my heat, but confidence is part of the race and he didn’t have much for the mile. Still, he went out and ran a good race (i.e., did what he planned to largely), held his pace, and ran right about the time I told him he should easily be able to do. He was amazed and happy as this was an 18 second PR. Finally we’re down to my heat. A friend had arrived a few minutes earlier with more news about the r.o.l. situation. I asked him to hold the information, but knowing that it existed was enough to ratchet up the stress a couple more notches. The previous heat had been pretty crowded and mine even more so — 18 of us lining up in basically 4 lanes. I lined up in the back row, towards the outside. Figured that from the outside I wouldn’t have problems with the pack collapsing on me as we entered the turn. The g,o word is given and we’re off, me with my usual lag of, oh yes, that means to start moving. The pack falls to the rail and we’re moving along in a very tight group it seems to me. The nominal range in our heat is only 25 seconds from the fast to slow end of the window. My goal is on the slow end, so I try to hold to a reasonable ‘in the pack but not pushing the front’. Side note: We start in the middle of the straight rather than the end. Boy are these guys close to me. Can I really drive the arms freely without hitting people? Am I far enough ahead of him to pull in without getting kicked? Something feels wrong with the stride, not flowing properly. On the far straight, I discover there’s a mid-way timer. Disaster. I’m already distractable and here’s a _second_ source of numbers. Oh no, hit that first 220y in X, which is a good 2-3 seconds off what I wanted … why are we running so slowly? Better put some heat on to get back towards pace. Oh no, we’re entering the turn and I don’t want to take the extra strides to try to go around outside the next two guys. Lay back on them and break between (cleanly) as we come out of the turn. Come up and the first lap is back on pace, which means the second half was a lot faster. Still not running as smoothly as I want, but after that burst I’m at least on pace. Try to get back towards a steady pace and stride. Here’s that blasted half lap clock again and the guys I passed a couple hundred yards earlier are passing back. Whatever. Time to drive the pace. Finish the second lap and am near the right pace. Not quite as quick as I wanted, but still a good bit faster than previous attempts. The breathing has been accelerating rapidly through the first two laps. By the end of the second, I’m already on ‘3 count’ breathing, which I didn’t reach until the end of the 3rd in the 1500 last month. Starting to lose some contact with folks ahead, but there are still 3-4 no more than 10 m ahead of me and I hear someone behind. This is the lap to really put out the effort to pick up pace. Won’t happen, but to avoid slowing. Hear my friend in the stands cheering. Come around and … rats. Fell back on pace substantially (7 seconds). Ok, push this lap! Fellow behind me is closing as we enter the next to last turn. Reach to turn it on … nothing. It’s becoming a struggle even to hold pace. Keep reaching and driving. Try to keep the stride smooth and keep pushing with whatever there is. The breathing has gone to ‘freight train’. Legs are fine, a bit heavy but no particular strain there. The arms are feeling the effort, but are ok. The lungs, however, are on fire and I practically hear the bronchi closing. Keep driving, it’s only another few hundred yards, not even one lap. Come around the final turn, well back now of the next to last person. But regardless of the place and time irrelevance, I’m _going_ to finish as strong as I possibly can. May be sluglike, which it certainly feels, but the effort goes all the way _across_ the line, not just to the point of determining place. And … it’s over. A few seconds back, it turns out, of my estimate from last month’s 1500. But something approaching a full out effort at the time. I found out the next day just how full out it was as my legs felt thoroughly trashed. This is probably the most wiped out they’ve felt since I started running again. Whatever I did last night, it was _definitely_ a full out effort. Notes for next time: Don’t think so darn much during the race! Yes, even for something as short as a mile, breathing matters. Use the inhaler when there are forewarnings of its merit. Practice running in traffic during the club track practices. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Response:

Ah, isn’t there something that you left out — like the time you ran. It’s nice to give us a buildup but every single person here is wanting to know if you broke 6 minutes for the mile. Not me. I hope they had a good run, and had fun, and maybe started some sedentary bystanders thinking about exercise. I don’t personally care how fast they did it, although I hope they were pleased by the overall experience.

I see I’m not missing anything by having returned to the killfile. We did pretty well on BobMac’s hopes. We had a lot of fun, ran hard (regardless of pace, most people were crossing the finish line pretty thoroughly spent), cheered for each other. I may have helped recruit a HS soccer player to the running club, at least for her off- seasons. We got a number of youngsters, down to age 6, started on the running life. I had a currently non-running friend in the stands actively thinking about running again (already been out once, so a good start). And a friend I’d convinced to come over to the track, from his usual 5-10k cross-country had a great time (both senses) and is thinking more about running track races. [when are the rest here going to join in? ] So a very nice night. As far as minute marks go, I was under the one that I expected, based on my 1500m last month, to be under. So satisfactory that way too. Didn’t beat my HS best, but that will come next year. (_will_) For race reporting, I’m done for a while. I’m running a bunch of races in the near future (8k on Saturday, 10k and 3k in August, 15k/10M on labor day weekend), but none are going to be seriously prepared for. They’re more matters of running ‘in course’ and for the fun (Saturday’s especially — part of a major town celebration and the party after the race is more of a point than the race itself) Nice relaxed running, get out with people and enjoy the atmosphere. Next serious preparation is probably a 10 miler Thanksgiving weekend. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Response:

Ah, isn’t there something that you left out — like the time you ran. It’s nice to give us a buildup but every single person here is wanting to know if you broke 6 minutes for the mile.

Not me. I hope they had a good run, and had fun, and maybe started some sedentary bystanders thinking about exercise. I don’t personally care how fast they did it, although I hope they were pleased by the overall experience. Any other expressions of apathy? BobMac

Response:

Ah, isn’t there something that you left out — like the time you ran. It’s nice to give us a buildup but every single person here is wanting to know if you broke 6 minutes for the mile. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – P.S. prompted by email question: For picturing the group as we started (that being the last time I could really look): 18 of us lined up in more or less two rowss pretty much elbow to elbow. Ages ranges from about 21 to 57*. I was towards the middle of that at 37. 1 woman in the group finished in the middle of our heat, 3rd overall among women. As for builds, you name it. A couple of guys looked like they’d wandered in from the weight room. Height went from about 5′3" to 6′3" among the guys, and similar range for build. I was on the tall and light end. Most wore shirts, some didn’t. Nature of shoes spanned the range, which made for a colorful batch as we went from beat up old running shoes to pretty new spikes. I had my traditional tshirt and shorts, the tshirt being uncharacteristically colorful, a bright red. All the runners got very quiet as we stepped on to the track to start our line-up. Very quiet. Intense bunch for an intense race. * Not that I can estimate that accurately, but judging from the results and trying to make allowance for some overlap between heats. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur

activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Before you buy.

Response:

P.S. prompted by email question: For picturing the group as we started (that being the last time I could really look): 18 of us lined up in more or less two rowss pretty much elbow to elbow. Ages ranges from about 21 to 57*. I was towards the middle of that at 37. 1 woman in the group finished in the middle of our heat, 3rd overall among women. As for builds, you name it. A couple of guys looked like they’d wandered in from the weight room. Height went from about 5′3" to 6′3" among the guys, and similar range for build. I was on the tall and light end. Most wore shirts, some didn’t. Nature of shoes spanned the range, which made for a colorful batch as we went from beat up old running shoes to pretty new spikes. I had my traditional tshirt and shorts, the tshirt being uncharacteristically colorful, a bright red. All the runners got very quiet as we stepped on to the track to start our line-up. Very quiet. Intense bunch for an intense race. * Not that I can estimate that accurately, but judging from the results and trying to make allowance for some overlap between heats. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Response:

Ran only my second race today since i started running again. I did a nice flat 5k in 24:52 I set goals 2 months ago for each month and my November goal was 24:50 and Sept goal was 26:24 so I am very happy. There is one problem this race and the race I did early August I get shin pain, and it is pretty bad. For those who did not see earlier posts the reason I stopped running 3 yrs ago was because of bas shin splints for months that I could not shake. During training my shins are fine. I am doing 30-35 miles a week pain free. It is only when I race. I am not doing speed workouts yet, i assume if i did i would get pain then. Any ideas on how to prevent it from getting worse, besides dont race — Dean Manchester NH Registured Linux user #222093 Web site consultant, specializing in political web sites

Response:

In part that says any sug on how to help. when people here are talking shoes. explain.When you know it’s the right one. after trying so many different fits. flat feet. normal feet. high archs. Ahhh shoes don’t mean size 12 from one brand too another. ahhhh size 12 is not size 1 maybe size 9 after washing or runing in rain. the list can go on for year. allso wraps and tape athletic. Do I never wash my feet and legs again. can I just add to it. Gels arch supports. cutting full gels. geeee dad when you going to get it right. there a life time here. KISS,

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Category Categories: Asthma Breathing Exercises | No Comments »

I had to see it to believe it

Question:

I am interested in that meter thing, is there one for

Category Categories: Asthma Breathing Exercises | No Comments »

What do you do?

Question:

You might find it helpful. In fact, try a few DEEP YAWNS right now! Yes you – right now!!

Oh, great, Sloopy! Now you’ve got me yawning like a maniac. Well, it’s almost bedtime anyway. }-O (sleepy yawning face!) xo Anne

Response:

I’m not sure I’m understanding the "PA" here. When I have a bad attack I can’t think of *anything* really. I mean when it hits, I have trouble breathing, thinking, and have fear that generates fear, that generates more fear. I wore a chronograph years ago to see just how long it lasted. Thing is, I could never could remember to push the time-lapse button down because of the intense fear, and gettin’ the hell out of wherever I was. I guess it’s a YMMV thing and a little diffrent for each but for me the "PA" means extreme, overwhelming fear.

I understand what you are saying. For me, my PA`s have a varying degree of intensity ranging from mild to severe. I`m not always successful in using diversions even when having just mild ones. If I`m having a severe PA or one that is accompanied by a lot of dizziness, then I am usually stuck sitting down which makes me more antsy because of the "flight" feeling. My last really severe panic attack was last Sept. I was so off balanced that I was having a hard time walking, so I sat at my desk. While I was sitting at my desk I noticed a food shopping list I had done earlier, and I rewrote the list over and over until my anxiety diminished. During some of my worst PA`s all I could do was pace the house. Jackie

Response:

Sloopy) And besides that, for me, the feeling that I’m going to die. I haven’t yet, that I’m aware of – but don’t try to convince me otherwise, ’cause I can’t hear you!

And yet so many people will say: "just don’t panic"—- Several years ago [some may have seen it], the red cross showed that "panic" was "normal" on a PBS special. Three life guards were at a small pool whereby a "olympic" swimmer [whom agreed to the test], was weighted and dropped into the pool. As the swimmer began to run out of air *and* confidence, he began to panic–[even intellectually knowing that they wern't going to let him die]. I recall something Ian said sometime back [like]: "when the mind and the brain get into conflict, the mind seldom wins". I find this intresting and I "think" we know this type of fear. Margrove? – K

Response:

I’ve heard that yawning can be a symptom of anxiety. The body/mind does it naturally to calm. It was associated with hysteria. Anyone have this info? Charla

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You might find it helpful. In fact, try a few DEEP YAWNS right now! Yes you – right now!! Oh, great, Sloopy! Now you’ve got me yawning like a maniac. Well, it’s almost bedtime anyway. }-O (sleepy yawning face!) xo Anne

Response:

Hi Jen, Good question and a informative thread. I use to play solitaire before I had the computer. That and Nintendo. I also found throwing a stick or ball for our Dog or watering the yard back then helped. Now I get on the puter and reply to messages or go for a walk. Distraction is one of the best tools I’ve found that help with rising panic. Charla

Response:

Hya Jen,nice question. For me there is great distinction between a full blown PA and Being anxious. When in a full blown PA I take extra valium,cause I really dunnot want be ‘in’ it. When being anxious I am like Liz Doing fysical things helps me a lot. Like working the garden or cleaning up the house. Tho sometimes I can sit down and write a bit or make some intuitive drawings (this I learned to do from my psychtherapist) It makes me stay ‘here’ instead of contemplating on worst-case-scenario’s I also like to visit the petting-zoo and talk to my animalfriends Kiss Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen — I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam. I looked into the soul of the guy next to me.

Response:

I don’t know what it is, but almost everybody yawns when they see a police officer (police car). I usually do myself, and it is comical watching others do it. It is a feature apparently hard wired into our "ancient" brain. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." (Ellen Parr- author)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard that yawning can be a symptom of anxiety. The body/mind does it naturally to calm. It was associated with hysteria. Anyone have this info? Charla You might find it helpful. In fact, try a few DEEP YAWNS right now! Yes you – right now!! Oh, great, Sloopy! Now you’ve got me yawning like a maniac. Well, it’s almost bedtime anyway. }-O (sleepy yawning face!) xo Anne

Response:

Hi Jen, I haven’t been able find anything that will help me through a panic attack except medication, and even that doesn’t always work. When I have a panic attack, I can’t do anything. I take a benzodiazepine, and lie down, but have to wait until the attack passes before I can do anything. If I’m in company, I have to go into another room, and I pray that I won’t have a panic attack when I’m in company. On the other hand, I’ve found that there are strategies I can use for coping with anxiety – one of the most helpful ones for me is breathing slowly and regularly, and listening to one of my relaxation tapes. Swimming is another one. A good walk can also sometimes help. Playing music on my violin is another thing that relaxes me. During the past year, I’ve found that I don’t suffer from panic attacks, though I still have a fairly high level of generalized anxiety, which I try to keep under control with the kinds of activities that help. -David-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen

I read, Jen. When it isn’t too bad, I read like everyone else, but when the anxiety is real bad, I just concentrate on one word at a time, often immediately forgetting the one that went before. I have a small library of books that I’ve "read" from cover to cover several times, but I couldn’t tell you what they were about. I’ve also found that apply a little pressure to the small hollow at the base of the ears were they join the neck helps too. However, one side is usually better than the other, and it may be a different side each time. And lately, I’ve found daydreaming about dastardly,and very complicated, ways of disposing of a certain regular poster here, helps too. <VBVVEG Ian

Response:

Jackie

[snipped] I really don`t have one particular thing I use to get my mind off having a panic attack, but here is a list of the things I might do. Crossword puzzles Word search puzzles

Response:

Since mine were accompanied with flashbacks for a long period of time, I tried several things that were aimed at helping me ’stay here’…I tried pinching my leg or arm, but when that turned to clawing myself, I had to stop. The best things I have found are smells and counting. I have designated ‘comfort scents’ like a musky vanilla body spray, white gardenia soap, things like that. I have found that when I had trouble sleeping, those scents sprayed on my pillow helped me relax too. When It helped me a lot because I would just put my wrist to my face when I would start to panic in the car, at the store, you name it. And if I couldn’t stop before panic hit, I would count breaths. Lay my hand on my chest and count until they slowed down, then move to my stomach making sure I was breathing deep enough. That’s what I do – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen

Robin http://www.geocities.com/reinventingrobin I need to take an emotional breath, step back and remind myself who’s actually in charge of my life. ~Judith Knowlton

Response:

If I am having a full-blown panic attack I am likely not to be able to do much of anything, except I go outside to sit on the porch, where if I get into too much difficulty, or pass out, somebody will see me eventually. if the attack is just beginning, and the time is OK, I administer an asthma breathing treatment with my nebulizer. This gives me something to do, keeps me breathing deeply for 15 minutes or so, and actually makes my breathing better, all of which help with the attack. If I am having lots of anxiety, I am likely to even go to bed, partly dressed, in case I have to go to the hospital. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." (Ellen Parr- author)

Response:

Mine is to simply do some deep breathing. It’s amazing how it can help calm you down (if only I could get as good at it when I was driving…) smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Dear Jen, I really don`t have one particular thing I use to get my mind off having a panic attack, but here is a list of the things I might do. Crossword puzzles Word search puzzles Look through my gardening books Looking through catalogs and magazines As long as I am not too dizzy, I will go on a cleaning frenzy Pulling weeds in the garden Run ice cold water over my wrists, splash my face with it as well’ Put my face in the freezer ( this helps if I am feeling very hot with the PA) )) Watch the Cooking channel or Nickelodeon Crochet or needlepoint if I have a project already started Good question Jackie

Response:

Hi, Kinder, I know what you mean about having a bad pa. When I do, forget it I can’t concentrate on anything else. But if my anxiety is just high that is when I do my deep breathing and I really do get good results. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jackie [snipped] I really don`t have one particular thing I use to get my mind off having a panic attack, but here is a list of the things I might do. Crossword puzzles Word search puzzles I’m not sure I’m understanding the "PA" here. When I have a bad attack I can’t think of *anything* really. I mean when it hits, I have trouble breathing, thinking, and have fear that generates fear, that generates more fear. I wore a chronograph years ago to see just how long it lasted. Thing is, I could never could remember to push the time-lapse button down because of the intense fear, and gettin’ the hell out of wherever I was. I guess it’s a YMMV thing and a little diffrent for each but for me the "PA" means extreme, overwhelming fear. – K

Response:

Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA?

Dear Jen, I really don`t have one particular thing I use to get my mind off having a panic attack, but here is a list of the things I might do. Crossword puzzles Word search puzzles Look through my gardening books Looking through catalogs and magazines As long as I am not too dizzy, I will go on a cleaning frenzy Pulling weeds in the garden Run ice cold water over my wrists, splash my face with it as well’ Put my face in the freezer ( this helps if I am feeling very hot with the PA) )) Watch the Cooking channel or Nickelodeon Crochet or needlepoint if I have a project already started Good question Jackie

Response:

Cleo wrote…… I file my nails – it seems to help a bit when anxious – and can sometimes prevent a panic attack arising.

Yup, this and painting my nails does help. Sometimes I find if I pamper my little one by doing things to her hair or painting her nails, it helps alot. Jackie

Response:

Hello all, I

was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken

up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I

thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I

started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical

sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen — I was thrown out of college for cheating on the

metaphysics exam. I looked into the soul of the guy next to me.

Back when I first developed panic disorder and was having several bad attacks every day, I used to grab my mandolin as soon as I felt one coming on, and play something fast as fast as I could. I would keep playing until the attack stopped. I still have that mandolin, but I don’t touch it – too many bad memories. Maybe someday. Dot

Response:

I do origami as well and it definitely helps to take my mind off my anxiety although sometimes those tricky folds are enough to cause a panic attack Donna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen

Response:

I file my nails – it seems to help a bit when anxious – and can sometimes prevent a panic attack arising. Cleo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen — I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam. I looked into the soul of the guy next to me.

Response:

sometimes I work on number patterns in my head, trying to remember and repeat and keep the pattern going on and on. like I’ll start with 2 4 2, then 2 4 4 2, then 2 4 4 2 2, then increase the 4’s and the 2’s as I go. This distracts me from the physical symptoms. It also sometimes helps with my fear of urinating in public restrooms! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen — I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam. I looked into the soul of the guy next to me.

Jeannie

Response:

Hi Jen, I am a hands on person and need to stay very busy. I garden, paint, do crafts and woodworking, sew, read, play the piano or write music on my midi system, shop, decorate the house, play games on my computer, and much more. My husband, on the otherhand can just chill, but my mind and hands seem to stay busy most of the time. When I get sick and can’t stay busy doing stuff, my anxiety level greatly rises. Take care, Liz — The best thing about the future is that it only comes one day at a time. —–Abraham Lincoln

Response:

Ah, it’s good to find something that works for you. This isn’t exactly what you had in mind, but …. When anxious, I tend to run my thumb over the tips of my fingers in simple or complex patterns. It’s been a conscious and unconscious habit for some time. Sometimes the speed of my thumb is related to the level of my anxiety. It can move pretty fast at times. LOL It can help calm me just a little. As a side note, my granddaughter use to watch me do this. It wasn’t long, three to five months old, before she was doing it too. *sigh* tnx, drr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen

– The second nicest guy on the internet Need the ASAP Mini-FAQ? A copy is at www.drrhodes.org

Response:

I pat my right thigh. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I was thinking that this might be an informative thread. I have recently taken up something to help with my anxiety, and it seems to work a little bit. I thought it would be fun to see what others do to help them through a PA. I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen — I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics exam. I looked into the soul of the guy next to me.

Response:

I started folding origami – when I am panicky, it takes my mind off my physical sypmtoms, and makes me focus on something else. Reading doesn’t work at all. Does anyone else have tricks, or things they do to take their mind off PA? Share! Jen

I snap my fingers and pinch my ear. Never knew why. Don’t seem to help much, but always do. Since I always do, maybe it does help. Never remembered just standing still though. Wondering –??–K

Response:

Category Categories: Asthma Breathing Exercises | No Comments »

opinion, please

Question:

Hello! My name is Hrvoje Milovac and I’m living in Zagreb, Croatia. I’m having MS since 1995. 1998. I was hospitalised and treated with steroids. It was the first and the last treatment with steroids I had because I felt very bad after it. At that point I decided for alternative ways of treating my illness. Since than I’m going three times a week on acupuncture therapy and every day I’m regularly taking vitamins E, D, B complex, Primrose Oil, Super Antioxidant with Pycnogenol, Aquasource Algae and CoQ10. I’m considering start to practice T’ai Chi. Before six months I stoped consuming milk and dairy products, products containing gluten, meat, sugar, animal fats. I was feeling good until last Sunday, when I had MS attack. Since than I’m suffering from double-pictured and blurry vision, fatigue and balance problems. Also, I’m feeling very tired and sleep 15 hours per day. Concidering I’ve decided to have unconventional treatment, I kindly ask for an opinion and advice what to do to get back in normal. Does anyone know how long can problems that I mentioned last without taking any drugs (steroids) except the preparates that I mentioned previously and alternative treatment. Thank you so much!

Response:

greeting hrvoje. my advice is to see a neurologist. you dont have to submit to steroid treatment — ive shaken attacks without as well as going for it once. but you should see a doctor as soon as possible. you are having an attack and that’s a crisis that needs medical attention or at least advice. while waiting to see the doctor, continue to sleep as much as possible. my doctor puts that at the top of the list when having an attack. sleep helps your body heal. but the most important thing is to see a doctor. now! Be Well, Lisa to send email, remove 123 from my address. "Please explain to me the scientific nature of ‘The Whammy’" – Scully "The Daily News asks her for the dope. She says, ‘Man, the dope’s that there’s still hope.’"- Springsteen

Response:

Dear Hrvoje — I was in the waiting room of my local MS clinic. We were chatting, comfortable with each other as diverse people enduring common crises can be. A couple of folks mentioned steroid treatments — LOVE the steroid treatments, they said. Gets them up, keeps them perky, fills them with energy. What the hell were they TALKING about, I still wonder? I’ve had steroid treatments four times (I think), and each time it’s just horrible. I feel awful, it saps every single life force from my body, can’t sleep, can’t think, makes me HUGE, makes me near psychotic — all in all, truly unpleasant. And I feel nearly as bad for weeks after the treatment, too. But I do it. And I would do it again, because it’s temporary. If I’m having a full-on exacerbation, I want to stop it in its tracks and for me, I’ve had good results with steroids. It’s miserable. But waiting out the attack or possibly allowing the MS to take over is unacceptable to me. Because the disease is so different for each of us, I can’t say that your experience with steroids would be as dramatic (in pain and positive results). But you need to talk to your doctor about how the steroid side effects can be reduced. I also take Copaxone, which has kept me from needing steroids for several years now. Good fortune for me, truly. Talk to your doctor, now.

"My name is Hrvoje Milovac and I’m living in Zagreb, Croatia. I’m having

MS since 1995. 1998. I was hospitalised and treated with steroids. It was the first and the last treatment with steroids I had because I felt very bad after it. At that point I decided for alternative ways of treating my illness." [Hrvoje is having an exacerbation and is concerned about steroid treatment] <

Response:

Hrvoje, Sorry to hear about your relapse, but I am glad to hear you are able to follow such a strict routine. I also follow a routine such as yours. I think it is important to remember that any of the treatments do not stop the condition of MS, but may slow them and reduce the severity of attacks. I have also had optic nuerits(sp?), twice, and it did clear, it may take some time though. If it is at all encouraging I would stick with your routine and tough out the ON. Avoid chemicals too, such as solvents and any type of pesticides. Hang in there Gato Loco On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:09:19 +0200, "Hrvoje" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<hrvoje.milo…@zg.tel.hr

wrote: Hello! My name is Hrvoje Milovac and I’m living in Zagreb, Croatia. I’m having MS since 1995. 1998. I was hospitalised and treated with steroids. It was the first and the last treatment with steroids I had because I felt very bad after it. At that point I decided for alternative ways of treating my illness. Since than I’m going three times a week on acupuncture therapy and every day I’m regularly taking vitamins E, D, B complex, Primrose Oil, Super Antioxidant with Pycnogenol, Aquasource Algae and CoQ10. I’m considering start to practice T’ai Chi. Before six months I stoped consuming milk and dairy products, products containing gluten, meat, sugar, animal fats. I was feeling good until last Sunday, when I had MS attack. Since than I’m suffering from double-pictured and blurry vision, fatigue and balance problems. Also, I’m feeling very tired and sleep 15 hours per day. Concidering I’ve decided to have unconventional treatment, I kindly ask for an opinion and advice what to do to get back in normal. Does anyone know how long can problems that I mentioned last without taking any drugs (steroids) except the preparates that I mentioned previously and alternative treatment. Thank you so much!

Response:

I have had MS 28 years and although it affects each blessed differently I have never changed my diet or activity(moderated activity somtimes) I take Avonex (2 years) and I have not had an exerbation in well over 10 years. Steroids dehydrated me so I will never take them again. "Everything in moderation" Keep yourself as happy(positive) as possible. Never let negitive people into your space. I am a firm beliver in sleep, rest and control. Write if you want I will always answer. seattl…@home.com "Hrvoje" <hrvoje.milo…@zg.tel.hr

wrote in message

news:9hk659$vta$1@sunce.iskon.hr… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello! My name is Hrvoje Milovac and I’m living in Zagreb, Croatia. I’m having MS since 1995. 1998. I was hospitalised and treated with steroids. It was the first and the last treatment with steroids I had because I felt very bad after it. At that point I decided for alternative ways of treating my illness. Since than I’m going three times a week on acupuncture therapy and every day I’m regularly taking vitamins E, D, B complex, Primrose Oil, Super Antioxidant with Pycnogenol, Aquasource Algae and CoQ10. I’m considering start to practice T’ai Chi. Before six months I stoped consuming milk and dairy products, products containing gluten,

meat,

sugar, animal fats. I was feeling good until last Sunday, when I had MS attack. Since than I’m suffering from double-pictured and blurry vision, fatigue and balance problems. Also, I’m feeling very tired and sleep 15 hours per day. Concidering I’ve decided to have unconventional treatment,

kindly ask for an opinion and advice what to do to get back in normal.

Does

anyone know how long can problems that I mentioned last without taking any drugs (steroids) except the preparates that I mentioned previously and alternative treatment. Thank you so much!

Response:

"Hrvoje" <hrvoje.milo…@zg.tel.hr

wrote in message

news:9hk659$vta$1@sunce.iskon.hr… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello! My name is Hrvoje Milovac and I’m living in Zagreb, Croatia. I’m having MS since 1995. 1998. I was hospitalised and treated with steroids. It was the first and the last treatment with steroids I had because I felt very bad after it. At that point I decided for alternative ways of treating my illness. Since than I’m going three times a week on acupuncture therapy and every day I’m regularly taking vitamins E, D, B complex, Primrose Oil, Super Antioxidant with Pycnogenol, Aquasource Algae and CoQ10. I’m considering start to practice T’ai Chi. Before six months I stoped consuming milk and dairy products, products containing gluten,

meat,

sugar, animal fats. I was feeling good until last Sunday, when I had MS attack. Since than I’m suffering from double-pictured and blurry vision, fatigue and balance problems. Also, I’m feeling very tired and sleep 15 hours per day. Concidering I’ve decided to have unconventional treatment,

kindly ask for an opinion and advice what to do to get back in normal.

Does

anyone know how long can problems that I mentioned last without taking any drugs (steroids) except the preparates that I mentioned previously and alternative treatment. Thank you so much!

Go to the doctor. Steroids are not thought to change the long term course of MS only get you back on your feet in a hurry. They drive me crazy and I don’t take them for MS but I do take them for asthma, breathing is not a choice. There are drugs that delay the progression of MS in some people and don’t cause most people any problems. You need to discuss these with a doctor as well as your current situation. Most folks choose steroids to get back on their feet in a hurry. But steroids don’t cause most folks don’t have a lot of problems with steroids. Most doctors should treat you without steroids since they are generally not thought to influence the outcome of the disease. Things are different than when I was first thought to have MS 20 years ago. Then there was nothing to do but treat symptoms or assault the immune system with steroids or ATCH. Neither of those treatments turned out to work. There are some things out there that may help you without causing much in the way of side effects. When ever I am having problems with MS my neuro just asks is it bad enough for steroids and so far I have said no. The time I lost the use of my left leg 21 years ago steriods were OK. — Gordon Stillwater, OK

Response:

Category Categories: Asthma Breathing Exercises | No Comments »

Hakki Kocabas Please Go Away

Question:

Sorry to barge in on this beautiful conversation you all are having, but I thought maybe the address for our Buteyko web-page might calm you all down a little. http://www.cix.co.uk/~reardo/buteyko.htm Have a good-day everybody, Ron

Response:

Labelling me…variation of calling me "pea brained".. If you were kill-filed by everyone now, you’d still post here, and the newbies wouldn’t know any better. I don’t want them to think that your kind of verbal diarrhoea is tolerated by list members.

Ha ha ha ha ha!!! I’m sorry. Couldn’t help myself. For the record, I am the person that sent Hakki a message saying, "I believe you are a good-hearted person and mean well, but I’ve decided you have a brain the size of a pea. I think you may be reversing all the good progress made on this newsgroup by other Buteyko advocates." That wasn’t an appropriate response on my part, but I felt particularly provoked at the time. Please, don’t blame others for my indiscretion. Mary As I often say at home, "The children aren’t playing well together today."

Response:

Better than your psychiatrist, obviously

Labelling me…variation of calling me "pea brained".. they’re unlikely to come round and knock some much-needed sense into you.

If I was living next door to you would you come and punch my nose, so that I cannot breathe through it to control my asthma? Breathing through my nose is one of the effective way that I achieved to get rid of my excess usage of medications: Preventive and reliever. Breathing exercises helped me to decreas my preventive and reliever medications consumption so far more than 70%, and for the last 13 days I’ve used _none_ of my preventive and reliever medications. That is a real improvement for me, because for the last few years I was using average 1 puff of preventive medication a day and 1 puff of reliever medication a day. That is impressive for me. If you can’t bear it, jump in the lake! |-| /- |-< |-< ||| – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chris King

Response:

All you’ve done is hurl insults around, troll the group and call people "quacks". What useful information have you ACTUALLY provided to this group ? Your "experiments" (at least you do admit that’s what they are) prove NOTHING – they work for you SO FAR, but what LONG-TERM effects are you going to achieve ? Stopping the exercises for a few hours does NOT

Isn’t that encouraging, even you started to show some interest about the "LONG-TERM effects" that I may achieve via Breathing Exercises, or should I say BUTEYKO;-RO(T/F)L |-| /- |-< |-< ||| really provide any sort of "proof" that you have your asthma under full control at this stage !!!

NO PROOF! BTW, Proof according to what? According to what theory? I am not conducting an experimentation here according to a theory I am just struggling with my asthma with my own resources without stooping to the chemicals. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a substitute

Response:

I’m going to deal with all of Hakki’s latest inane rantings in one go, so you only have to kill one posting, rather than three… And the further away the combatants are, the better, it seems – that way they’re unlikely to come round and knock some much-needed sense into you. Are you trying to threaten me?!

No, I’m just calling you a cowardly troll, Hakki. You’re the one acting like a bully. And a cowardly bully at that, because you keep threatening to run to your postmaster. If you do snitch, you’d better hope he still thinks you’re "sincere" about your postings !!! I’ll keep this as a record as well, when I complete your file I’ll send it to you postmaster to teach you the rules to post on the Net.

Oh, so when the revolution comes, you’ll have me put against the wall and shot ? Can you see I’m quaking in my boots ? ROFL You’ve been asked by various people to STOP spamming the group, yet you insist on calling those people "quacks" and hurling insults around. Go and play in alt.flame, you’ll find some like-minded friends there… Yes, I’ve seen at least one reply. I can’t say I’m overly impressed with your ISP’s attitude. Perhaps you’ll get more impressed by your ISP’s response to your bullying people around…soon..

Like I said, you’re just a cowardly troll who thinks that the mere threat of postmaster intervention will allow him to get his way. I don’t back down so easily, and I stand by everything I’ve posted, without feeling the need to contradict myself. Erm, you haven’t really asked any questions, or actually answered any. All you’ve done is hurl insults around, troll the group and call people "quacks". What useful information have you ACTUALLY provided to this Put your words in my mouth, then accuse me?! Not bad, not bad;-))

Nice attempt at trolling. But not good enough. I don’t need to put words in your mouth – your foot’s already in there… No, no, no..you were calling me "quack, pea brain, etc.."

I have not called you a "quack", or a "pea brain". I have called you a "liar", a "troll" and a "bully". You have said similar things about people who’ve asked you to stop filling this group with junk. SO STOP LYING ABOUT PEOPLE ON THIS GROUP !!! And that is not enough you label me, and that is not enough you threaten me to use physical force on me. Read your lines above..

Since when have *I* threatened you ? And while you’re at it, why do you pretend to be semi-literate ? Your grammar and use of English seems far better in the other groups you post to… group ? Your "experiments" (at least you do admit that’s what they are) prove NOTHING – they work for you SO FAR, but what LONG-TERM effects are Yeah, "they work for me", that you should know!

They work for YOU, but then again your asthma wasn’t that serious to begin with. And you say yourself that you’ve had attacks during the last month. Is THAT your idea of having it under control ? you going to achieve ? Stopping the exercises for a few hours does NOT You will see "What LONG-TERM effects" I will achieve if you be patient enough to read my Daily Reports;-)))

WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR DAILY REPORTS !!! All you do is just post garbage and hurl abuse at people in general. really provide any sort of "proof" that you have your asthma under full control at this stage !!! I’ve got my asthma under complete control…and for the last 20 days I’ve used no preventive medication and the last time I used my puffer for reliever was two weeks ago. You can’t bear this as a fact, can you? Just bear it!

Hang on, you said you’ve got it under complete control ? You’re said yourself that you still have attacks, so IT IS NOT UNDER COMPLETE CONTROL. Did I say that this proves something? No!

So why bother bombarding the group with it then ? All you’re doing is bragging and making a nuisance of yourself. I have nothing to prove you, I am not using breathing exercises to prove something to you. I am just doing it and reporting my observations. You take it, or leave it!

We’d like to leave it, but if the people who mailed me about you are anything to go by, the general attitude to your posting is this: SHOVE IT !! I am _not_ conducting a scientific experimentation according to a medical theory here. I am struggling with my asthma.

That’s why we’re all here, but we don’t whine about it or hurl personal abuse at other newsgroup members because we disagree with them. note: Chris, if I had qualified you as "quack", I would never bother to respond your quackery;-)) And since when did YOU become qualified to practice medicine ? Hehe..hehe..I am not practicing medicine here, I am just practicing my asthma with my breathing exercises…and it does good to me to reduce my asthma medications, so far I gave up using them all for the last 13 days…I am happy, and I am sharing my experiences here with other asthmatics. What do you share?

Take a look at my past postings. Oh, sorry, I’m dealing with a troll here, so it’s unlikely you would. HOW SURE ARE YOU THAT YOUR EXERCISES ARE HELPING ? Your asthma was very mild to begin with, and it’s not unknown for symptoms to subside for periods of time, even when you’re on regular medication. Better than your psychiatrist, obviously Labelling me…variation of calling me "pea brained"..

Hakki, you are paranoid, and have delusions that people actually give a stuff about what you post. Log out and seek professional help, okay ? I respond to your garbage, rather than kill-file you, because I don’t think you should get away with your repeated abuse of newsgroup members and filling the group with junk. If you were kill-filed by everyone now, you’d still post here, and the newbies wouldn’t know any better. I don’t want them to think that your kind of verbal diarrhoea is tolerated by list members. they’re unlikely to come round and knock some much-needed sense into you. If I was living next door to you would you come and punch my nose, so that I cannot breathe through it to control my asthma?

Who says I’d want to live next door to such a nasty, abusive, lying troll as you ? Breathing through my nose is one of the effective way that I achieved to get rid of my excess usage of medications: Preventive and reliever. Breathing exercises helped me to decreas my preventive and reliever medications consumption so far more than 70%, and for the last 13 days I’ve used _none_ of my preventive and reliever medications. That is a real improvement for me, because for the last few years I was using average 1 puff of preventive medication a day and 1 puff of reliever medication a day. That is impressive for me. If you can’t bear it, jump in the lake!

Excess ? One dose of a reliever and one dose of a preventer a day ? That’s so little, I’m surprised you actually needed it !! It may be impressive for you, but why not run your "experiment" for a while longer (say, six months or a year) ? Record your findings objectively, then publish the results then, along with the exercises you actually did – that’s something we could take more seriously. So far, all you’ve done is brag that your unspecifed "exercises" have helped you – THAT WON’T HELP ANYBODY ELSE, BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW HOW YOU ACHIEVED THE RESULTS. All you’ve done is hurl insults around, troll the group and call people "quacks". What useful information have you ACTUALLY provided to this group ? Your "experiments" (at least you do admit that’s what they are) prove NOTHING – they work for you SO FAR, but what LONG-TERM effects are you going to achieve ? Stopping the exercises for a few hours does NOT Isn’t that encouraging, even you started to show some interest about the "LONG-TERM effects" that I may achieve via Breathing Exercises, or should I say BUTEYKO;-RO(T/F)L

So, you now say that you’re following Butyeko exercises ? At last, he’s finally admitted that he’s merely following someone else’s technique, rather than being an innovator, like he’s tried to infer previously. As I’ve said before in this group: I AM interested in hearing about all manner of treatment regimes, both conventional and alternative. I AM NOT interested in fish-oil "cures" or techniques/treatments which do not have a scientific basis. really provide any sort of "proof" that you have your asthma under full control at this stage !!! NO PROOF! BTW, Proof according to what? According to what theory?

You’re performing a personal experiment, without having eliminated external factors which may bias your results (and I’m not just talking about dust-mites here !) and without having any sort of control tests by which you can prove your results. Scientifically speaking, your "experiment" would not stand up to rigourous inspection. I am not conducting an experimentation here according to a theory

But you just said you were following the Butyeko theory ! Get a grip and THINK BEFORE YOU HIT SEND !!! I am just struggling with my asthma with my own resources without stooping to the chemicals.

Nice one, Hakki – you’ve just insulted all the people for whom medication *IS* the the only answer. Why don’t you just carry on and start calling us all "inferior beings", or whatever pathetic jibe you can come out with next. — Chris King http://www.csking.demon.co.uk

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And the further away the combatants are, the better, it seems – that way they’re unlikely to come round and knock some much-needed sense into you.

Are you trying to threaten me?! I’ll keep this as a record as well, when I complete your file I’ll send it to you postmaster to teach you the rules to post on the Net. Yes, I’ve seen at least one reply. I can’t say I’m overly impressed with your ISP’s attitude.

Perhaps you’ll get more impressed by your ISP’s response to your bullying people around…soon.. Erm, you haven’t really asked any questions, or actually answered any. All you’ve done is hurl insults around, troll the group and call people "quacks". What useful information have you ACTUALLY provided to this

Put your words in my mouth, then accuse me?! Not bad, not bad;-)) No, no, no..you were calling me "quack, pea brain, etc.." And that is not enough you label me, and that is not enough you threaten me to use physical force on me. Read your lines above.. group ? Your "experiments" (at least you do admit that’s what they are) prove NOTHING – they work for you SO FAR, but what LONG-TERM effects are

Yeah, "they work for me", that you should know! you going to achieve ? Stopping the exercises for a few hours does NOT

You will see "What LONG-TERM effects" I will achieve if you be patient enough to read my Daily Reports;-))) really provide any sort of "proof" that you have your asthma under full control at this stage !!!

I’ve got my asthma under complete control…and for the last 20 days I’ve used no preventive medication and the last time I used my puffer for reliever was two weeks ago. You can’t bear this as a fact, can you? Just bear it! Did I say that this proves something? No! I have nothing to prove you, I am not using breathing exercises to prove something to you. I am just doing it and reporting my observations. You take it, or leave it! I am _not_ conducting a scientific experimentation according to a medical theory here. I am struggling with my asthma. Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a note: Chris, if I had qualified you as "quack", I would never bother to respond your quackery;-)) And since when did YOU become qualified to practice medicine ?

Hehe..hehe..I am not practicing medicine here, I am just practicing my asthma with my breathing exercises…and it does good to me to reduce my asthma medications, so far I gave up using them all for the last 13 days…I am happy, and I am sharing my experiences here with other asthmatics. What do you share? |-| /- |-< |-< ||| – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a substitute

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BRAVO, I would have included the whole message again as an encore, but I didn’t want to detract from the original. The sad part is, I think he believes all the *&^% he prints. Well Done Chris. — "Be good, and you will be lonesome.", Mark Twain Michael A. Pease

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For example, something subtle may have changed in your environment that you were not aware of… Like the dust-mites went on holiday;-))

You really must do something about this dust-mite fetish you’ve got – you seem very fond of mentioning them when people ask you awkward questions. (You’re quite a wit. Well, I suppose I’m half-right…) Did I say that I will become like I am newborn;-))) I’ve had respiratory problems since birth, and no doubt other people here have – so watch what you say… You watch what you say, and don’t call me names…and if you do call me "quack" stick to your word and give any value to whatever I post here…if you are truthful!

What are smoking, Hakki ? It can’t be legal ! You are one very paranoid person, as soon as anyone challenges you, you start claiming that they’re calling you a "quack". Change the tape son, you’re boring us all rigid. [Snip] Change your Dr, who knows perhaps you get a different opinion.

So, you reckon MY doctor’s a quack ? He’s quite good actually. Better than your psychiatrist, obviously [snip] I’m happy with the results I’ve achieved so far, but there’s always room for improvement, and that’s why I read this group – for new ideas and advice. I don’t come here to read other people’s flame-wars, for spam, for advocacy or for personal insults. You are the one who call me "quack"!

There you go again. Grow up and stop trolling. I’m not going to fill this group with "quack" cascades. Once again, you have shown why a.s.a members have taken exception to your posts – the fact that you regularly patronise them and question their intelligence. If you don’t like my style of writing, you don’t need calling me with names, put my name in your kill-file to get rid of me. Who is forcing you to read my postings? I am patronising you?! and questioning your intelligence??!! You must be joking;-))

Like I said before, I had a wander through the current Dejanews archive. You seem to like picking fights in newsgroups, don’t you ? And the further away the combatants are, the better, it seems – that way they’re unlikely to come round and knock some much-needed sense into you. I know how to use a kill-file, thank you Hakki. But I prefer to see the root causes of my irritation *eliminated*, rather than just suppress the symptoms. Then keep on reading my messages, I am sure they will be good for your character-building;-))

You like character building. Followed by character assassination. But as far as flaming goes, you’re pretty lame. Come back in a few years time when you’ve grown up. This isn’t a flame-war. But if you insist on insulting the folks in this group, you’ll probably start one. You mean when I start calling people "quack" or "no, no not-duck!" or "he must be growing a third leg between his two"..or "pea brain!" ;-RO(T/F)L

My sentiments exactly – you have attempted to rubbish everybody else’s arguments and reduce the level of discussion in this newsgroup to the level of playground taunts. It’s this kind of behaviour that kills newsgroups stone dead, but that never occurs to trolls like you. If you want to complain about *my* behaviour, fine. But on the basis of your previous postings to this group, my postmaster would tell you to go away and quit wasting his/her time. Perhaps, like my postmaster;-))

Yes, I’ve seen at least one reply. I can’t say I’m overly impressed with your ISP’s attitude. The fact is not that you are irritated by my style, but you are running short of arguments against my questions, this is what makes you irritated…and I can’t help you on that other than recommending you to include me in your kill-files.

Erm, you haven’t really asked any questions, or actually answered any. All you’ve done is hurl insults around, troll the group and call people "quacks". What useful information have you ACTUALLY provided to this group ? Your "experiments" (at least you do admit that’s what they are) prove NOTHING – they work for you SO FAR, but what LONG-TERM effects are you going to achieve ? Stopping the exercises for a few hours does NOT really provide any sort of "proof" that you have your asthma under full control at this stage !!! Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a note: Chris, if I had qualified you as "quack", I would never bother to respond your quackery;-))

And since when did YOU become qualified to practice medicine ? (Rearrange these words into a well-known saying: Black Pot The Calling Kettle) — Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a substitute

Response:

I’ve tried several treatment regimes, and the conventional one I’m following at the moment appears to be the best to date. It’s not perfect, but it works for me.

Good on you! Tell us more about your treatment regimes then… I can easily remove those factors, just by stopping my exersizes;-)) If there are any… So, you haven’t bothered to check that out ?

I didn’t need to, because when I give up doing my exercises during the day, I feel that I have to catch up with them at night. I am not going to give up them just to prove something to you, would I? I have nothing to prove to you, all I do is reporting what is happening to me in relation of asthma when I do breathing exercises. For example, something subtle may have changed in your environment that you were not aware of…

Like the dust-mites went on holiday;-)) The fact that you’re still using them suggests that your asthma is not totally under control. Did I say that I will become like I am newborn;-))) I’ve had respiratory problems since birth, and no doubt other people here have – so watch what you say…

You watch what you say, and don’t call me names…and if you do call me "quack" stick to your word and give any value to whatever I post here…if you are truthful! If I am using even 1/2 of the medications I was using before breathing exersizes I would count this as a great improvement, even 25% less would do… Now that I statement I do agree with, but I also realise that not everybody will achieve it with Butyeko.

Have you tried it? If yes how much you yourself achieved? Give us some figures Mr Ford! I’ve already consulted my doctor about preventative treatments, and my bronchodilator usage has dropped to one-quarter of what it was at its peak. By your definition, my asthma is still well out of control, but compared to some of the more severe cases documented here, it’s fairly mild.

Change your Dr, who knows perhaps you get a different opinion. I’m happy with the results I’ve achieved so far, but there’s always room for improvement, and that’s why I read this group – for new ideas and advice. I don’t come here to read other people’s flame-wars, for spam, for advocacy or for personal insults.

You are the one who call me "quack"! Once again, you have shown why a.s.a members have taken exception to your posts – the fact that you regularly patronise them and question their intelligence.

If you don’t like my style of writing, you don’t need calling me with names, put my name in your kill-file to get rid of me. Who is forcing you to read my postings? I am patronising you?! and questioning your intelligence??!! You must be joking;-)) I am selling _nothing_ to you, BTW, if you don’t like my postings you’re welcome to include me in your kill file, if you don’t know how to use your kill file ask your friends. I know how to use a kill-file, thank you Hakki. But I prefer to see the root causes of my irritation *eliminated*, rather than just suppress the symptoms.

Then keep on reading my messages, I am sure they will be good for your character-building;-)) This isn’t a flame-war. But if you insist on insulting the folks in this group, you’ll probably start one.

You mean when I start calling people "quack" or "no, no not-duck!" or "he must be growing a third leg between his two"..or "pea brain!" ;-RO(T/F)L If you want to complain about *my* behaviour, fine. But on the basis of your previous postings to this group, my postmaster would tell you to go away and quit wasting his/her time.

Perhaps, like my postmaster;-)) The fact is not that you are irritated by my style, but you are running short of arguments against my questions, this is what makes you irritated…and I can’t help you on that other than recommending you to include me in your kill-files. |-| /- |-< |-< ||| Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a

note: Chris, if I had qualified you as "quack", I would never bother to respond your quackery;-))

Response:

Hakki Kocabas please, please go away! Otherwise we will push you under carpet! O Asthmatics! You are right! I have a serious problem. Here is my problem: I have been identified as _asthmatic_ and had been taken under _asthmatic threatment_ by established medical practices according to established medical theories…and all of a sudden within a month I’ve found myself experimenting practices based on not so established theories of medicine, and guess what I am having better results with them..there seems something seriously wrong here, somewhere. This is my problem and I want to find an intelligent answer to this…an answer which won’t insult my intelligence. That’s why I am exposing the facts I am facing with my breathing exercises in relation with my asthma status. I am determined to find this answer with your help you asthmatics or without it. Thanks for your support;-) |-| /- |-< |-< |||

Response:

No, I don’t want people to try the breathing exercises I am experimenting. But anyway let me try to answer your questions..my aim in posting my experiences with breathing exercises here is not "wanting people to try my way", but it _is_ to let other asthmatics to know what is happening when I do breathing exercises. I am not even bothered anymore to explain _how_ it is happening according to _a theory_… It is simply this: I am doing breathing exercises and reporting you my observations about it in common language, not in theoretical language. Also my experimentations are not setup according to a theory, and they are not observed according to a theory…in other words they are not scientific experimentations, not scientific observations, not scientific reports… would appreciate an answer to mine. I do not think you are avoiding this. Here it is again: I run – usually 4-5 miles a day, several days a week. Your theory is

I have no theory of mine, I guess you are refering to Buteyko’s Theory… based on the fact that ‘over breathing’ is the primary problem. When I run I over-breathe like you wouldn’t believe! Probably an incredible amount of oxygen is consumed for this entire time. And yet,

According to Buteyko Theory, the problem is not how much oxygen you are consuming, but the imbalance between oxygen and CO2 levels in your blood and lungs which is sustained in favour of oxygen. While you are running it is obvious that your body needs more oxygen and produce more CO2, so that you will need more ventilation to exhale the CO2. Actually, Buteyko trainers recommend moderate running exercises to sustain the balance of oxygen and CO2 levels in the blood and lungs. My explanations about your case according to Buteyko’s Theory may not be correct, if you need correct answers you may ask about it to people who knows the theory better than I do. Running may trigger asthma for some people like me… I have tried to breathe through my nose to avoid this, and it works with me. If running is helping you to control your asthma then perhaps you don’t need the breathing exercises…but it is not practical to start running in the middle of the night when you feel that you are going to have an asthma attack.. however, you may easily start breating exercises to try to control it.. miraculously I do not suffer from asthmatic

No miracle there, there is no miracle in breathing exercises too, it is hard work to regain your health in patience. If it is good for your asthma and if you can afford it then keep running. We would like to hear your experiences in controlling your asthma by running here. Tell us how do you do it, how much it helps reducing preventive and reliever medications for you. I would be most interested to hear about it. |-| /- |-< |-< ||| – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – attacks after I run! Can you explain this please? – Mike

Response:

Just don’t spam the group with your observations, and don’t start picking fights with the other newsgroup members, okay ? That’s the kind of thing to object to… Don’t ask for it by calling other newsgroup members quack, or not duck!

Err, excuse me, but you were the one who started with the sarcasm and arguing with other members of the group. If you can’t stand the heat, stick to lurking. So, you’ve only been using Butyeko for four weeks ? You’ve achieved *short-term* benefits, but will you continue to benefit *long-term* ? If you do, then we might take this more seriously. There are people using these techniques for longer than I do. Why don’t you ask them, if you are serious about it?

How do you know I haven’t already ? How do you know that I haven’t researched the subject ? How do you know I haven’t tried it ? I’ve tried several treatment regimes, and the conventional one I’m following at the moment appears to be the best to date. It’s not perfect, but it works for me. As for your dosages, they weren’t exactly high to begin with (especially compared to other people in this group), it doesn’t sound like your life was totally ruled by your asthma. Are you calling me I am not qualified to be asthmatic;-)) Check your notes about who is asthmatic?

What I am trying to say is that your dosages appeared to be unusually low for an adult (I assume you’re an adult…) and I’m not saying you don’t have asthma – all I said was that it appeared to be extremely mild. I can easily remove those factors, just by stopping my exersizes;-)) If there are any…

So, you haven’t bothered to check that out ? For example, something subtle may have changed in your environment that you were not aware of… The fact that you’re still using them suggests that your asthma is not totally under control. Did I say that I will become like I am newborn;-)))

I’ve had respiratory problems since birth, and no doubt other people here have – so watch what you say… If I am using even 1/2 of the medications I was using before breathing exersizes I would count this as a great improvement, even 25% less would do…

Now that I statement I do agree with, but I also realise that not everybody will achieve it with Butyeko. You also seem not to know what is totally under control for asthmatics. Let me illuminate you on that:-

There you go again, patronising people. We are *not* stupid in this group – far from it. So don’t come barging in here acting like we’re dumb and in need of an education. (And don’t think that stuffing your messages with "smileys" is going to take the sting out of your comments) If you are using 3 puffs of relievers in a week you are not in control of your asthma, so perhaps you have to consult your doctor to increase your preventive medication.

That’s an unusually strict definition, and I’m sure some doctors would disagree with you, ie they’d set the figure higher. Many list members would consider their asthma to be "under control" with much higher dosages than that. I’ve already consulted my doctor about preventative treatments, and my bronchodilator usage has dropped to one-quarter of what it was at its peak. By your definition, my asthma is still well out of control, but compared to some of the more severe cases documented here, it’s fairly mild. I’m happy with the results I’ve achieved so far, but there’s always room for improvement, and that’s why I read this group – for new ideas and advice. I don’t come here to read other people’s flame-wars, for spam, for advocacy or for personal insults. Once again, you have shown why a.s.a members have taken exception to your posts – the fact that you regularly patronise them and question their intelligence. I am selling _nothing_ to you, BTW, if you don’t like my postings you’re welcome to include me in your kill file, if you don’t know how to use your kill file ask your friends.

I know how to use a kill-file, thank you Hakki. But I prefer to see the root causes of my irritation *eliminated*, rather than just suppress the symptoms. Play nicely folks, please. If Hakki is annoying/harassing you, drop his postmaster a line. Don’t start a flame-war here !!! Don’t forget, I can do the same to you, if you keep calling me quack, not duck, etc. I am not the one who started a flame-war here, but I am not going to be intimidated by flame-wars.

This isn’t a flame-war. But if you insist on insulting the folks in this group, you’ll probably start one. If you want to complain about *my* behaviour, fine. But on the basis of your previous postings to this group, my postmaster would tell you to go away and quit wasting his/her time. Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a substitute I’ve cut your ad from your signiture;-))

Oh, so you can cut-and-paste ? Am I supposed to be impressed or something ? Next you’ll be telling us all about keyboard shortcuts and the right mouse button, I can hardly wait… BTW, It’s not an advert – it’s a reminder that readers should consult their medical practioner before changing their medication or treatment regime as a result of anything they read here. Chris — Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a substitute

Response:

message loud and clear. Now, please listen to our message: GO AWAY!!!! Hakki Kocabas is not going away, simply because there are people like you attempt to cover up certain experiences of human-beings which will help other asthmatics if they hear about them as they happen.

No Chris, it _will_ help either positively or negatively, because the information I am supplying to you will make you conscious of my experiences…so it is regardless of your repeating the same exersizes yourself _necessarily_ will help you.. which means at least if you decide so you may not repeat the same exersizes that I am doing and reporting. You see I was not talking about treatment I was talking about my observations on my breathing experiments. |-| /- |-< |-< ||| Play nicely folks, please. If Hakki is annoying/harassing you, drop his

Yeah folks, play nicely, don’t call me names like "no duck", "quack", "pea brain", "growing a third leg where there where none before" etc..;-RO(T/F)L postmaster a line. Don’t start a flame-war here !!!

Watch your language and Don’t start a flame-war here !!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a substitute

Response:

This guy is just like asthma—–it won’t go away.

AMEN

Response:

Hakki, This is the 3rd time I’ve posted this. You have replied to several other notes in this conference. If you really want people to try your method, you really need to answer their questions. I would really would appreciate an answer to mine. I do not think you are avoiding this. Here it is again: I run – usually 4-5 miles a day, several days a week. Your theory is based on the fact that ‘over breathing’ is the primary problem. When I run I over-breathe like you wouldn’t believe! Probably an incredible amount of oxygen is consumed for this entire time. And yet, miraculously I do not suffer from asthmatic attacks after I run! Can you explain this please? – Mike

Response:

This guy is just like asthma—–it won’t go away.

Response:

This guy is just like asthma—–it won’t go away.

Unlike asthma, there is a cure for spammers, flamers and other people who don’t play nicely on the Internet – it’s called "termination of account". I mean, just take a look at what happened to our mutual non- friend joetov… — Chris King http://www.csking.demon.co.uk

Response:

Just don’t spam the group with your observations, and don’t start picking fights with the other newsgroup members, okay ? That’s the kind of thing to object to…

Don’t ask for it by calling other newsgroup members quack, or not duck! Hakki Kocabas had a course in breathing exersizes about 4 weeks ago. When he started the course he was on 1 puff pulmicort and 1 puff bricalyn a day for the last two years rearly missing the days… So, you’ve only been using Butyeko for four weeks ? You’ve achieved *short-term* benefits, but will you continue to benefit *long-term* ? If you do, then we might take this more seriously.

There are people using these techniques for longer than I do. Why don’t you ask them, if you are serious about it? As for your dosages, they weren’t exactly high to begin with (especially compared to other people in this group), it doesn’t sound like your life was totally ruled by your asthma.

Are you calling me I am not qualified to be asthmatic;-)) Check your notes about who is asthmatic? Hakki Kocabas stop using pulmicort after two weeks from the start of the course.. Hakki Kocabas used only 4-5 puffs of ventolin/bricalyn since the first day of his course. But were there any other factors which may have reduced your need for Pumicort/Ventolin/Bricanyl ?

I can easily remove those factors, just by stopping my exersizes;-)) If there are any… The fact that you’re still using them suggests that your asthma is not totally under control.

Did I say that I will become like I am newborn;-))) If I am using even 1/2 of the medications I was using before breathing exersizes I would count this as a great improvement, even 25% less would do… You also seem not to know what is totally under control for asthmatics. Let me illuminate you on that:- If you are using 3 puffs of relievers in a week you are not in control of your asthma, so perhaps you have to consult your doctor to increase your preventive medication. Hakki Kocabas is not reporting this in favour of some institution or persons. Hakki Kocabas has no benefit from your using/trying of these exersizes. We’re not trying to suppress the facts. We’re just sick of the hard sell and the spam.

I am selling _nothing_ to you, BTW, if you don’t like my postings you’re welcome to include me in your kill file, if you don’t know how to use your kill file ask your friends. Now, Hakki Kocabas says: You GO AWAY!!! Play nicely folks, please. If Hakki is annoying/harassing you, drop his postmaster a line. Don’t start a flame-war here !!!

Don’t forget, I can do the same to you, if you keep calling me quack, not duck, etc. I am not the one who started a flame-war here, but I am not going to be intimidated by flame-wars. |-| /- |-< |-< ||| — Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a substitute

I’ve cut your ad from your signiture;-))

Response:

summed up it up really well by comparing asthma sufferers and their symptoms to snowflakes – no two are the same. Not everybody will be helped by Butyeko, on the other hand it might help someone who can’t find relief using conventional treatments. Hakki Kocabas will keep on reporting his observations about his asthma after he learned about some of these practices..

Just don’t spam the group with your observations, and don’t start picking fights with the other newsgroup members, okay ? That’s the kind of thing to object to… Hakki Kocabas had a course in breathing exersizes about 4 weeks ago. When he started the course he was on 1 puff pulmicort and 1 puff bricalyn a day for the last two years rearly missing the days…

So, you’ve only been using Butyeko for four weeks ? You’ve achieved *short-term* benefits, but will you continue to benefit *long-term* ? If you do, then we might take this more seriously. As for your dosages, they weren’t exactly high to begin with (especially compared to other people in this group), it doesn’t sound like your life was totally ruled by your asthma. Hakki Kocabas stop using pulmicort after two weeks from the start of the course.. Hakki Kocabas used only 4-5 puffs of ventolin/bricalyn since the first day of his course.

But were there any other factors which may have reduced your need for Pumicort/Ventolin/Bricanyl ? The fact that you’re still using them suggests that your asthma is not totally under control. Hakki Kocabas is not reporting this in favour of some institution or persons. Hakki Kocabas has no benefit from your using/trying of these exersizes.

Now that’s a welcome change. Nobody trying to sell books or tell me about fish oil, cures by X-ray etc. Hakki Kocabas was sick in stomach when he achieved the first time in his life how to control his asthma without drugs…he was sick in stomach that he didn’t hear about these exersizes long, long ago.. and he thinks that it was because there are people like you to muffle these facts to be heard…and not enough people like him to expose these fact to the use of asthmatics..

We’re not trying to suppress the facts. We’re just sick of the hard sell and the spam. Now, Hakki Kocabas says: You GO AWAY!!!

Play nicely folks, please. If Hakki is annoying/harassing you, drop his postmaster a line. Don’t start a flame-war here !!! — Chris King | Advice given here should NOT be used as a substitute

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you so much for all your info about how all asthmatics breathe wrong. I think I speak for the whole group when I say we are so happy you found something that works so great for you. We have considered all of your suggestions and we will keep them in mind. We have heard your message loud and clear. Now, please listen to our message: GO AWAY!!!! No, I don’t think you should. The old-timers on the group may get a bit weary of you but there are others who are newbies and need all the info they can get, pro and contra. And even those who only log on occasionally need to keep an eye on how the arguments are going, whether it is for Accolate, Flovent or Buteyko. — Ralph S. George

I’ve read those posts. I just ignore them. It’s idiocy is self evident. All we can hope to do is to educate otherwise. Everybody relax and play nice.

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message loud and clear. Now, please listen to our message: GO AWAY!!!!

Hakki Kocabas is not going away, simply because there are people like you attempt to cover up certain experiences of human-beings which will help other asthmatics if they hear about them as they happen. Hakki Kocabas will keep on reporting his observations about his asthma after he learned about some of these practices.. Hakki Kocabas had a course in breathing exersizes about 4 weeks ago. When he started the course he was on 1 puff pulmicort and 1 puff bricalyn a day for the last two years rearly missing the days… Hakki Kocabas stop using pulmicort after two weeks from the start of the course.. Hakki Kocabas used only 4-5 puffs of ventolin/bricalyn since the first day of his course. Hakki Kocabas is not reporting this in favour of some institution or persons. Hakki Kocabas has no benefit from your using/trying of these exersizes. Hakki Kocabas was sick in stomach when he achieved the first time in his life how to control his asthma without drugs…he was sick in stomach that he didn’t hear about these exersizes long, long ago.. and he thinks that it was because there are people like you to muffle these facts to be heard…and not enough people like him to expose these fact to the use of asthmatics.. Now, Hakki Kocabas says: You GO AWAY!!! |-| /- |-< |-< |||

Response:

Thank you so much for all your info about how all asthmatics breathe wrong. I think I speak for the whole group when I say we are so happy you found something that works so great for you. We have considered all of your suggestions and we will keep them in mind. We have heard your message loud and clear. Now, please listen to our message: GO AWAY!!!!

Response:

your suggestions and we will keep them in mind. We have heard your message loud and clear. Now, please listen to our message: GO AWAY!!!!

Speak for yourself;-( I am having good feedback from people here..if my messages disturb you put me in your kill file… Or keep saying;- GO AWAY!!!!! See if it will make a difference;-RO(T/F)L |-| /- |-< |-< |||

Response:

your suggestions and we will keep them in mind. We have heard your message loud and clear. Now, please listen to our message: GO AWAY!!!!

Are we running short of arguments;-RO(T/F)L |-| /- |-< |-< |||

Response:

No, I don’t think you should. The old-timers on the group may get a bit weary of you but there are others who are newbies and need all the info they can get, pro and contra. And even those who only log on occasionally need to keep an eye on how the arguments are going, whether it is for Accolate, Flovent or Buteyko. — Ralph S. George

Response:

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I had to see it to believe it

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opinion, please

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Hakki Kocabas Please Go Away

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