Question:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The majority of people here, at least the ones who are posting, seem to disagree with you. Bottom line is, if you are not getting the support you are looking for here, why do you come back ?    diane is *so* right!  perhaps the majority of people here don’t disagree with her but are just reluctant to post and be attacked by you and the few other bullies monopolizing this group.  this post of yours responding to her sincerely-stated opinions demonstrates her point exactly!  what’s with this "why come back" argument?  not everyone in this group attacks and there is some good information that others present.  just because she finds certain aspects of this group very unsupportive doesn’t mean she should walk away from what help and support she can find here. You strike me as argumentative. You seem to scan posts just looking for a reason to pick a fight.    look in the mirror!  diane isn’t the one being argumentative.  as for scanning posts (you should know!); why do you think everyone reading this newsgroup wants to hear so much from you?! you seem to have a need to respond to nearly every thread or post that comes along and most of what you offer is in attack.  i’m certain you have some helpful insights; it’s just a shame they get lost in all your bully and inflated ego offerings.    i hope diane stays.  this group needs her wisdom and insights.    sincerely, natural

Very well and accurately stated, naturalwomyn.  Please allow me to amplify what you have so intuitvely recognized. The reasons certain individuals feel compelled to monopolize (and terrorize) are many and varied, but two commonalities they share that you can be sure of are, they have an awful lot of free time on their hands because of lack of anything better to do, and like all bullies, they terrorize because of their exceedingly low self-esteem and fear of discovery of how miserably pitiful their lives really are.  Fortunately, even though the anonymity of the net affords them so much concealment, such misfits and dregs of society are still easy to recognize and therefore to avoid.   Those types rarely if ever exhibit any humour as they go about their despicable business of perpetual sniping because they take themselves way to seriously.  The very best way to deal with the empty words of impotent bullies is to pay them no never mind, ignore them, and eventually they disperse or slither back into their viper’s den.  But they thrive on others taking them as seriously as they do themselves, so leave them be to battle amongst themselves in their own symbiotic, though still parasitically corrupted state.  Leave them destroy each other with their incessant inane and endless argumentitive egotistical rantings.  If you value yourself, keep away, do not become lured into their colony of lepers, therefore affording them the opportunity of infecting you too.  Remember, misery wants company.  You do not want to become one of them.  Only you have the power to refuse their baiting tactics and posturings, and by doing so, remain disease-free and apart from those cretin’s pergotory of misery, loneliness, despair, and obviously self-inflicted pain. Those who feel their style of comportment is so unsupportive, why feel so compelled to be supportive of it through recognition?   Are you so easily baited by the meager trifles of feigned sincereity they occasionally toss out? Those with any degree of maturity at all know it’s impossible to maintain one’s dignity by sleeping with the enemy sometimes. You can’t have it both ways. Once you’ve voiced your disdain, they will not ever forget, and certainly not those with way too much time on their hands. Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

OK — before you jump all over me for it I will correct my misstatement. Diane did not start this thread. I would stand by the rest of the post. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really. The majority of people here, at least the ones who are posting, seem to disagree with you. Bottom line is, if you are not getting the support you are looking for here, why do you come back ? When you see an "alternative" treatment viscously denigrated it is because it is obviously a scam. I take this as a sign of support. People here are protective and when they see someone trying to take advantage, and possibly hurt someone, they get defensive and go on the attack. I would worry if they didn’t do this. If someone sincerely starts a discussion about a subject on which they would like more information, or they are trying to share some information, the thread is generally civil; even the opinions that disagree. You strike me as argumentative. You seem to scan posts just looking for a reason to pick a fight. Many other people here find it easy to find examples of support and exchange of ideas, yet you constantly see the negatives. Now, you seem to have run out of fights to pick among the rest of the legitimate threads; so you start a new thread attacking the newsgroup itself. I would suggest that if you enjoy the newsgroup you should stay and participate as you see fit. If not, you may want to try alt.anysubject.bicker. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. I also think differing views are well tolerated if they are really sincere opinions. Really? I have been on this ng for several months and few, if any, posts mentioning non-conventional treatments or ideas have been made that have not been jumped on, denigrated and ridiculed. There have been some reasoned and respectful comments but those have been few and far between. ..diane

Response:

Really.

Hmm…that makes me wonder about your other views. The majority of people here, at least the ones who are posting, seem to disagree with you. Bottom line is, if you are not getting the support you are looking for here, why do you come back ?

Actually, there are a small handful of individuals who "jump on" just about every post about non-conventional ideas or treatments. Anyone who has read this ng for more than a week knows who these individuals are. That hardly constitutes a majority….not to mention the lurkers. Most folks just post their questions and offer information. You are assuming that the only reason I am here is to get the support of folks who agree with me. When you see an "alternative" treatment viscously denigrated it is because it is obviously a scam.

I guess some folks have esp or something (or think they do) in that they can tell what all the scams are without finding out little or anything about something. I take this as a sign of support.

? People here are protective and when they see someone trying to take advantage, and possibly hurt someone, they get defensive and go on the attack. I would worry if they didn’t do this.

You think it is okay to attack (and viciously, by your above comment) something or someone when one knows little or nothing about something? Hmm. Sounds like a "bully" tactic to me. I figure folks on this ng are smart enough to read the info presented, look into what they feel is right for them, and make their own decisions (in concert with their health care provider). I think most folks are aware of the importance of asking questions and looking into *any* treatment before making decisions. So why would they need some self-appointed individuals policing the ng? Seems like the "police" either think the folks on the ng are either stupid and/or foolish and can’t think for themselves or the "police" have their own personal reasons for attacking anything that doesn’t fit their view. If someone sincerely starts a discussion about a subject on which they would like more information, or they are trying to share some information, the thread is generally civil; even the opinions that

disagree. Anyone who has read this ng for more than a week is aware that this is not the case when it comes to non-conventional ideas and treatments. You strike me as argumentative.

Well, I must admit that a couple of individuals on this ng do tend to bring out my argumentative side, which is usually not expressed. Other than those occasional individuals, I rarely argue…as evidenced by my many posts to others. You seem to scan posts just looking for a reason to pick a fight.

Well, that is your perception…which as a result of your comments I am seriously questioning. Reading many of my posts in the ng or dejanews will clearly indicate that I make posts on other things besides "arguments". In the "argumentative" posts it is evident that most of my comments are made in reply to someone (usually those couple of individuals) who has first replied/argued with my comments. Only occassionally have I initiated this type of discussion, when I have felt the information is very misleading or very biased. There are a number of things that are posted here which do not conform to my personal views, as occurs with everyone and is to be expected, but I rarely comment on them as I know that some folks may be interested in them. Perhaps it is okay for these few individuals to argue with me, but it is not okay for me to argue back. Many other people here find it easy to find examples of support and exchange of ideas, yet you constantly see the negatives.

I don’t constantly see negatives…that is your (questionable) perception/opinion again. About the only negative I see on this ng (other than the ones found on all usenet ngs) is that a few individuals are denying other readers the opportunity to hear other ideas and information on other treatment options due to their personal views. To me this is a form of censorship and is a negative. Now, you seem to have run out of fights to pick among the rest of the legitimate threads; so you start a new thread attacking the newsgroup itself.

I am not attacking the ng, I am disagreeing with you. Perhaps to you they are the same thing. You said: I also think differing views are well tolerated if they are really sincere opinions.

I said: I have been on this ng for several months and few, if any, posts mentioning non-conventional treatments or ideas have been made that have not been jumped on, denigrated and ridiculed. There have been some reasoned and respectful comments but those have been few and far between.

As I mentioned, it is a couple of very vocal individuals who "jump on" every post having to do with non-conventional ideas and treatments…which easily gives just about anyone the strong impression of intolerance. I would suggest that if you enjoy the newsgroup you should stay and participate as you see fit.

I am participating as I see fit…just like everyone else. If not, you may want to try alt.anysubject.bicker.

Hmmm…another example of tolerance? ..diane

Response:

The majority of people here, at least the ones who are posting, seem to disagree with you. Bottom line is, if you are not getting the support you are looking for here, why do you come back ?

        diane is *so* right!  perhaps the majority of people here don’t disagree with her but are just reluctant to post and be attacked by you and the few other bullies monopolizing this group.  this post of yours responding to her sincerely-stated opinions demonstrates her point exactly!  what’s with this "why come back" argument?  not everyone in this group attacks and there is some good information that others present.  just because she finds certain aspects of this group very unsupportive doesn’t mean she should walk away from what help and support she can find here. You strike me as argumentative. You seem to scan posts just looking for a reason to pick a fight.

        look in the mirror!  diane isn’t the one being argumentative.  as for scanning posts (you should know!); why do you think everyone reading this newsgroup wants to hear so much from you?! you seem to have a need to respond to nearly every thread or post that comes along and most of what you offer is in attack.  i’m certain you have some helpful insights; it’s just a shame they get lost in all your bully and inflated ego offerings.         i hope diane stays.  this group needs her wisdom and insights.         sincerely, natural

Response:

Really. The majority of people here, at least the ones who are posting, seem to disagree with you. Bottom line is, if you are not getting the support you are looking for here, why do you come back ? When you see an "alternative" treatment viscously denigrated it is because it is obviously a scam. I take this as a sign of support. People here are protective and when they see someone trying to take advantage, and possibly hurt someone, they get defensive and go on the attack. I would worry if they didn’t do this. If someone sincerely starts a discussion about a subject on which they would like more information, or they are trying to share some information, the thread is generally civil; even the opinions that disagree. You strike me as argumentative. You seem to scan posts just looking for a reason to pick a fight. Many other people here find it easy to find examples of support and exchange of ideas, yet you constantly see the negatives. Now, you seem to have run out of fights to pick among the rest of the legitimate threads; so you start a new thread attacking the newsgroup itself. I would suggest that if you enjoy the newsgroup you should stay and participate as you see fit. If not, you may want to try alt.anysubject.bicker. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also think differing views are well tolerated if they are really sincere opinions. Really? I have been on this ng for several months and few, if any, posts mentioning non-conventional treatments or ideas have been made that have not been jumped on, denigrated and ridiculed. There have been some reasoned and respectful comments but those have been few and far between. ..diane

Response:

I also think differing views are well tolerated if they are really sincere opinions.

Really? I have been on this ng for several months and few, if any, posts mentioning non-conventional treatments or ideas have been made that have not been jumped on, denigrated and ridiculed. There have been some reasoned and respectful comments but those have been few and far between. ..diane

Response:

diane is *so* right!  perhaps the majority of people here don’t disagree with her but are just reluctant to post and be attacked by you and the few other bullies monopolizing this group.

All Diane has is unfounded opinions.  Asthma is too serious a disease for people to base thier treatment on the opinion of somebody who believes that asthma is caused by ‘hot lungs.’ BTW, why are’t you posting under your old name – SadieR83?  Afraid that everybody here still has that name killfiled?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The name that comes to mind isn’t exactly troll, but more effectively asshole, and it’s directed to you.  What, you claim this group as your exclusive property and decide who’s a troll and who’s not?  Who’s legit and who’s not?  Pretty arrogant.     And calling me an asshole isn’t arrogant? No, it’s not arrogant.  It’s opinion.  And it’s mine.     Where do I claim this group as my exclusive property?  And why do I not have a right to state my opinion on whether or not another post is a troll? Anytime you attempt to label someone right away, without doing any homework or not, and immediately start flaming, you are staking claim.  Whether you state it or not.  At least I *read* some of your posts before describing you as an asshole. You have every right to say some is a troll, same as I do to say you’re an asshole, but no where (that I saw) in your post did you say IMO, or IMHO, or guess what guys, this one looks like a troll.  You just say bzzzt!  Troll!  The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken.

    Are you so insecure, and/or stupid, that I have to label my opinion as such lest you swallow it as that of a group as a whole?  Did you label your opinion as such?  Could you possibly have missed the entire point of Usenet so thoroughly that you believe /anyone at all/ speaks as a "great and powerful Oz" in any newsgroup?     This makes two people who accuse me of treating a.s.a as my exclusive playground.  The other was Joe Tsiyoni.  Pretty exclusive company; you must be proud. ooohhhh….what a great flame….I’m so wounded…Have I advocated snake oil?  Don’t think so.  Have I claimed a cure for "the symptoms" of asthma?  Don’t think so. Have I offered to sell anyone anything? Nope.  Don’t plan on it either.

    Did you get the point?  Apparently not.  So I’ll lay it out.     Your insistence that I should have labeled my opinion as such, while not labeling your opinion, is hypocrisy.     Your assumption that I was attempting to speak for anyone other than myself is insecurity.     Your failure to get the point I was making about your assumption that I’m trying to take over this froup is stupidity.     You are stupid and insecure hypocrite. Didn’t comment on the last phrase, either.  I still say it fits.

    You’re entitled to your opinion. Grow up.

    Oh yeah, and while I’m at it, I invited you to conduct this flamewar in a more appropriate venue, such as the Nose or alt.flame.  I have set follow-ups to this post to the Nose.  If you want to step outside, please make sure you’re entirely clear of the door before you try to throw your first punch.     I’ll say it again.  Welcome to Usenet and adulthood in the same day, sweetheart.

Response:

    Are you so insecure, and/or stupid, that I have to label my opinion as such lest you swallow it as that of a group as a whole?  Did you label your opinion as such?  Could you possibly have missed the entire point of Usenet so thoroughly that you believe /anyone at all/ speaks as a "great and powerful Oz" in any newsgroup?

It would appear that you are both insecure and/or stupid.  And have missed my point entirely also. Flame on, Horatio.  You make my point clearer with every utterance. kim — "Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine taetige Unwissenheit" – "Nothing is more frightful than an active ignorance. Goethe

Response:

this group is so unsupportive!  so many over-inflated, self-righteous egos who are all competing for attention.  there is so much hostility amongst you, how can any of you profess to be interested in healing? sadly, people come to this group with sincere questions and are attacked for not taking the "right" medication or have the "right" knowledge. if anyone knows of an asthma internet *support* group, i’m interested in knowing where it is. nw

  I have to agree with you on this one.   But you see this on almost every ng. Sailor Dave

Response:

Thank you Sheldon, Very well said.  I have learned much from this group which has been positive.  It is however very frustrating to weed through the tons of garbage posted here.  I will continue to read and hopefully learn from the experiences of those that have been dealing with this disease longer than I have. I do chose to ignor those trolls and persons selling there useless cure all treatments.  To the original poster don’t give up on this group so quickly.  The garbage runs in cycles.  Unfortunately the can seems to be overflowing right now. toni

Response:

this group is so unsupportive!  so many over-inflated, self-righteous

I have been a new poster here and I must say that you’re wrong! Sure there are disagreements here but no one is unsupportive! I have seen for myself the way people here have tried to do their best to help others with their problems with this condition.

Response:

The name that comes to mind isn’t exactly troll, but more effectively asshole, and it’s directed to you.  What, you claim this group as your exclusive property and decide who’s a troll and who’s not?  Who’s legit and who’s not?  Pretty arrogant.

    And calling me an asshole isn’t arrogant?     Where do I claim this group as my exclusive property?  And why do I not have a right to state my opinion on whether or not another post is a troll?     This makes two people who accuse me of treating a.s.a as my exclusive playground.  The other was Joe Tsiyoni.  Pretty exclusive company; you must be proud.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m with you Sheldon. I think people with sincere questions about asthma receive a lot of support and good advice. I also think differing views are well tolerated if they are really sincere opinions. It is the spammers and trollers with something to sell that take the brunt of the aggression, something for which I am not ashamed. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to "Name That Troll!"

And I support that view strongly. Let me tell you a little story ( sound of chairs being pulled into a circle Four years ago I was devasted by a diagnosis of severe panacinar emphysema, caused by a genetic deficiency of a proteinese inhibitor, Alpha1 Antitrypsin. At 46 I faced crippling illness and an early death. Try as I might I could find very little about this disease and I decided to post a query to this very group. Within two hours I had an email from the US and within days had contacted several other Alphas. We now have a mailing list with over three hundred people, in a dozen different countries. I cannot begin to tell you how much this meant to me in the early days of coming to terms with my illness. I made sure that alt.support.asthma received good press when I appeared on ITV’s Cyber Cafe!! Regards Robin Alpha1-UK site at: http://www.droom.demon.co.uk Remove the spam from address if replying by email

Response:

The name that comes to mind isn’t exactly troll, but more effectively asshole, and it’s directed to you.  What, you claim this group as your exclusive property and decide who’s a troll and who’s not?  Who’s legit and who’s not?  Pretty arrogant.     And calling me an asshole isn’t arrogant?

No, it’s not arrogant.  It’s opinion.  And it’s mine.     Where do I claim this group as my exclusive property?  And why do I not have a right to state my opinion on whether or not another post is a troll?

Anytime you attempt to label someone right away, without doing any homework or not, and immediately start flaming, you are staking claim.  Whether you state it or not.  At least I *read* some of your posts before describing you as an asshole. You have every right to say some is a troll, same as I do to say you’re an asshole, but no where (that I saw) in your post did you say IMO, or IMHO, or guess what guys, this one looks like a troll.  You just say bzzzt!  Troll!  The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken.     This makes two people who accuse me of treating a.s.a as my exclusive playground.  The other was Joe Tsiyoni.  Pretty exclusive company; you must be proud.

ooohhhh….what a great flame….I’m so wounded…Have I advocated snake oil?  Don’t think so.  Have I claimed a cure for "the symptoms" of asthma?  Don’t think so. Have I offered to sell anyone anything? Nope.  Don’t plan on it either. Didn’t comment on the last phrase, either.  I still say it fits. Grow up. Kim — "Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine taetige Unwissenheit" – "Nothing is more frightful than an active ignorance. Goethe

Response:

this group is so unsupportive!  so many over-inflated, self-righteous egos who are all competing for attention.  there is so much hostility amongst you, how can any of you profess to be interested in healing? sadly, people come to this group with sincere questions and are attacked for not taking the "right" medication or have the "right" knowledge. if anyone knows of an asthma internet *support* group, i’m interested in knowing where it is. nw

Response:

writes: this group is so unsupportive!  so many over-inflated, self-righteous egos who are all competing for attention.  there is so much hostility amongst you, how can any of you profess to be interested in healing? sadly, people come to this group with sincere questions and are attacked for not taking the "right" medication or have the "right" knowledge. if anyone knows of an asthma internet *support* group, i’m interested in knowing where it is. nw

You are correct.  This group has deteriorated into one big pissing contest with a handfull of monopolizing little schmucks daisychain-pissing into each other’s mouths.  This group should be renamed <alt.goldenshowers.oral Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to "Name That Troll!" this group is so unsupportive!  so many over-inflated, self-righteous egos who are all competing for attention.  there is so much hostility amongst you, how can any of you profess to be interested in healing?

    Survey says… BZZZT!     The group is exceptionally supportive of its readership.  It’s the nut jobs and snake oil salesmen who push "natural grain processes" and whacked-out forms of yoga as asthma cures that don’t get a lot of support. sadly, people come to this group with sincere questions and are attacked for not taking the "right" medication or have the "right" knowledge.

    Survey says… BZZZZT!!!     That’s two strikes!  You can page through the newsgroup and find post after post where people with questions have been welcomed to the discussion and been given answers based on facts, research, the personal experience you can’t get anywhere else, and human concern. if anyone knows of an asthma internet *support* group, i’m interested in knowing where it is.

    Survey says… BZZZZTT!!!     Third strike, you’re out.  You are now officially declared a troll! Come back when you’re not posting through a freebie Hotmail account, and next time you want to troll someone, take on a group like alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, dedicated to giving lame trollers like you the shortest shrift on the planet.

Response:

And YOU are exactly the type of person(?) naturalwoman was referring to! Tina in Montreal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Good evening, everyone, and welcome to "Name That Troll!" this group is so unsupportive!  so many over-inflated, self-righteous egos who are all competing for attention.  there is so much hostility amongst you, how can any of you profess to be interested in healing?    Survey says… BZZZT!    The group is exceptionally supportive of its readership.  It’s the nut jobs and snake oil salesmen who push "natural grain processes" and whacked-out forms of yoga as asthma cures that don’t get a lot of support. sadly, people come to this group with sincere questions and are attacked for not taking the "right" medication or have the "right" knowledge.    Survey says… BZZZZT!!!    That’s two strikes!  You can page through the newsgroup and find post after post where people with questions have been welcomed to the discussion and been given answers based on facts, research, the personal experience you can’t get anywhere else, and human concern. if anyone knows of an asthma internet *support* group, i’m interested in knowing where it is.    Survey says… BZZZZTT!!!    Third strike, you’re out.  You are now officially declared a troll! Come back when you’re not posting through a freebie Hotmail account, and next time you want to troll someone, take on a group like alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, dedicated to giving lame trollers like you the shortest shrift on the planet.

Response:

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to "Name That Troll!" this group is so unsupportive!  so many over-inflated, self-righteous egos who are all competing for attention.  there is so much hostility amongst you, how can any of you profess to be interested in healing?    Survey says… BZZZT!    The group is exceptionally supportive of its readership.  It’s the nut jobs and snake oil salesmen who push "natural grain processes" and whacked-out forms of yoga as asthma cures that don’t get a lot of support.

One who continuously responds to trolls encourages them to continue, therfore is more detrimental to the group then the troll. BZZZT!  You win this month’s pointy-headed imbecil award.           /          /^^         /^^^^      /