Question:

Thanks to all who responded to the allergy shot thing. I finally got him back to the dr and they cut his dose in half for a while. He will be undergoing something called immune therapy on the next visit (anyone have any pointers on this one?) All she (the dr) said was for him to be prepared for lots of blood being taken. Well…what exactly is a LOT of blood? She thinks he may have some kind of immuno disease…his pulmonary function test isnt characteristic of an asthma patient. But every time we take him off biaxin he gets an infection in his lungs…..his health is deteriating..and i hope we find answers soon. Thanks again, LYNN

Response:

He also has a flu shot a month or so ago. IF he had some kind of immuno disease,would he of gotten the flu from the shot? Im just wondering…im trying to find some hope in all this.

Response:

He also has a flu shot a month or so ago. IF he had some kind of immuno disease,would he of gotten the flu from the shot?

Impossible.  No way. There are no live viruses in the flu shot.  You cannot catch the flu from it. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   9-11. Answer the call!

Response:

nobody responded to me on what immune therapy is? Could somene clue me in please?

Response:

Present day use can be constrained as ‘anything that will help you fight _____ or cancer, asthma ,etc’. From quitting cigarretes, vitamins, macrobiotic diet and excercise, drugs, to chemotherapy, to experimental gene therapy. How much do I know about Immune Therapy?? about as much as anything,but more precisely NOTHING,  if I have a question about something I look it up on yahoo, and read the material, if I then have specific questions then I hit up a newsgroup. Are you afraid of libraries??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – nobody responded to me on what immune therapy is? Could somene clue me in please?

Response:

Lynn, It’s a holiday week, and some of the doctors haven’t been posting.  Most of us are lay people seeking support ourselves, so it’s hit or miss on getting any specific information.  Try doing a search at the following sites: http://www.merck.com http://webmd.lycos.com/ http://www.drkoop.com http://chid.nih.gov/ Good luck! –Jane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – nobody responded to me on what immune therapy is? Could somene clue me in please?

Response:

Hi everyone! Thanks for the info site for the glycemic index. I realy and truely appreciate it. Thanks is just not enough to say how much I am greatful. Everyone have a blessed day and low bg’s! Ira type2 and still new.

Response:

This post not CC’d by email type2 and still new.

Best wishes Ira and congratulations,  Believe me … we all wish to stay new. — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       #,#< [                     / /     "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Response:

I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my first post to this newsgroup, "brand new mom...and I hate it."  This is my first involvement with newsgroups and I've gotten so much support...it really has been helpful to find that 1.)I'm not alone in my feelings as a brand new mom and 2.)it will get better. Jenn T. (mother of Allison, 51/2 weeks old)

Response:

What plans do you have for yourself in the future. I needed something to look forward to - I promised myself at one year I would look for a job that was just a few hours a week to get out and be with adults. It also made me feel better with the whole money thing. I also join a community sorority, Deta Sigma Phi, which is a friends network which meet every other week. The homes are close and I get a girls night twice a month. Let me know what you think. Tricia and Sarah (12 months!!!!) - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my first post to this newsgroup, "brand new mom...and I hate it."  This is my first involvement with newsgroups and I've gotten so much support...it really has been helpful to find that 1.)I'm not alone in my feelings as a brand new mom and 2.)it will get better. Jenn T. (mother of Allison, 51/2 weeks old)

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

A few days ago I posted about my new cat that I adopted from the humane society.  He was ill and not eating.  Eveyone gave me great advice and i am happy to say that one week after adopting him that he has overcome his reep infection and has started eating!!!  Thanks everyone. Before you buy.

Response:

Best of luck with the little one! Barb

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

A few days ago I posted about my new cat that I adopted from the humane society.  He was ill and not eating.  Eveyone gave me great advice and i am happy to say that one week after adopting him that he has overcome his reep infection and has started eating!!!  Thanks everyone. Before you buy.

Response:

Best of luck with the little one! Barb

Response:

Hello to all my friends here. I am so glad to let you all know that your were very helpful in my obtaining my zebra finches (11 of them), budgie (1) and maybe more in the future.  You see I was afraid that someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.  So far I have successfully placed all but 5 zebra finches.  If you are interested, please contact me about a visit to see if your home will fill the bill for these birds!  Thank you very much

Response:

Did I miss something here???? -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

.  You see I was afraid that - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - someone would believe the lies you are putting out.  So I went directly to the three local humane societies and asked that they send a representative out to review my home.  After that all three have turned the small birds and small rodents over to me to find homes for.

Response:

Did I miss something here????

No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

<G Ok I kinds figured that, but I could not remember her. So many come and go I loose track. -- For E-mail remove the "ns"

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Did I miss something here???? No Alex just a troll type trying to stir up old shit. out" my home   NOT Dave

Response:

: another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah : right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with : another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all : informed. Nothing can take away the pain of losing Mango but there's no harm in making a new little birdie friend =)  I hope all goes well with Sweetie's new buddy. Caryn

Response:

good luck what ever you decide to do! Lorraine

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive.   I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

Sscool! Bob W -- Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I want to thank everybody for all the kind words.  My e-mail has been changed, so let me apologize if anything bounces back to you.  For now, I have photopoint locked down, so no more nasty things will arrive. I went down to the store where we purchased Mango and told the lady of the sad news.  She was saddened by the news, but made a few remarks to me about how well he always looked when she saw him, and generally tried to make me feel better.  She also asked if I was going to replace him.  I don't know if I want another one so soon after, but Sweetie, our parakeet, has been exceptionally quiet these past couple days, and the hubby thinks we should get him a new buddy.  The lady at the store was nice enough to tell me that she will have a bunch of hand-fed parakeets from the same breeder Sweetie came from coming in with a new bunch of babies next week, so we'll probably end up getting another.   - For Sweetie's sake of course - says the hubby, yeah right...I thonk the hubby wants me to quit moping and get busy with another bird.  I don't know, but I'll be sure to keep you all informed. Jessica

Response:

all of you..... life gets a bit rough at times and it is so good to know I can come here Love, Bonnie

Response:

"forgottenmuse" wrote all of you..... life gets a bit rough at times and it is so good to know I can come here Love, Bonnie

{{{{{Bonnie}}}}} You're so welcome - and thank you too. Hugs, TK

Response:

much appreciation to you all for helping me out.  i've implemented virtually all advice given in this thread's postings.  i'll be leaving on the 21st and i feel very prepared, and very excited! thanks! --david

Response:

Bon Voyage!  KM (-:alohacyberian:-)  At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - much appreciation to you all for helping me out.  i've implemented virtually all advice given in this thread's postings.  i'll be leaving on the 21st and i feel very prepared, and very excited!

Response:

(((KATE))))) sending healing thoughts. Kathy

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Hope you are able to get some rest before the surgery.. We be sending lots of healing thoughts your way kate. johnie thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

Sending prayers for a successfull surgery. Nancy - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

Kate, Good luck with the surgery.  I had surgery on Oct. 15th and I am doing very well.  It wasn't near as bad as I had built it up in my mind. debbie m.

Response:

Kate - Have your hubby call me or I'll call him tomorrow evening to let everyone know how it went. DeeTee DeeTee and Bob Taggart http://home.earthlink.net/~bdtaggart/

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

Hope you are able to get some rest before the surgery.. We be sending lots of healing thoughts your way kate. johnie - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

thinking of you too. I hope it all goes smoothly and quickly and you are on the road to recovery in no time at all/ Rose

Response:

much appreciation to you all for helping me out.  i've implemented virtually all advice given in this thread's postings.  i'll be leaving on the 21st and i feel very prepared, and very excited! thanks! --david

Response:

Bon Voyage!  KM (-:alohacyberian:-)  At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - much appreciation to you all for helping me out.  i've implemented virtually all advice given in this thread's postings.  i'll be leaving on the 21st and i feel very prepared, and very excited!

Response:

(((KATE))))) sending healing thoughts. Kathy

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Hope you are able to get some rest before the surgery.. We be sending lots of healing thoughts your way kate. johnie thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

Sending prayers for a successfull surgery. Nancy - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

Kate, Good luck with the surgery.  I had surgery on Oct. 15th and I am doing very well.  It wasn't near as bad as I had built it up in my mind. debbie m.

Response:

Kate - Have your hubby call me or I'll call him tomorrow evening to let everyone know how it went. DeeTee DeeTee and Bob Taggart http://home.earthlink.net/~bdtaggart/

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

Hope you are able to get some rest before the surgery.. We be sending lots of healing thoughts your way kate. johnie - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

Response:

thank you, all of you for your supportiveness, prayers, energies and healing thoughts.  they are all so appreciated and welcome.  surgery is at eleven in the morning, so i should probably turn in early tonight.  i'll be thinking of all of you too . . . lovingly, kate

thinking of you too. I hope it all goes smoothly and quickly and you are on the road to recovery in no time at all/ Rose

Response:

thank you Eileen.Paul.and Kita.....for replying to my post i was as far down as i think u good get...i needed a friend so bad...things are so bad right now..and i have felt so guilty for what i did .....that just added to my problems...i appreciate you for not putting me down but bringing me up at least i had the support from u guys to encourge me even though i know i cant and wont do this again im just fed up with the cat and mouse game playing around with the slips ups since i slipped up after 7 monthes this summer dag gone it i did it once and i will do it again this time im mad mad as hell at those white sticks that burn smoke it stinks and tastes bad .....since my life has been a liveing hell these holidays im going to take it out on the ciggs and im so mad at them i could scream i hate them i hate them i hate them.....im not saying things right aww shit just blame it on the few ciggs i smoked the stupid things made my mind worse than it was and im going to stop now i dont know what in the hell im saying just thanks and have a Happy New YEAR!!!!..SMOKE FREE IN 2003.......Patsy

Response:

Patsy, Glad you're getting back at it and hope you're feeling quite a bit better  Hey, I really like your "smoke free in 2003"!! Blessings, Mommo Smober for One month, two weeks, four days and 19 hours. I have not smoked 1366 life taking cigarettes, saving $156.45 for a trip to Walt Disney World with our precious grand daughter AND I get to spend 4 days, 17 hours and 50 minutes more enjoying my main motivation pictured at http://www.quitbuddies.org/Buddies20.html#anchor72478 - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - thank you Eileen.Paul.and Kita.....for replying to my post i was as far down as i think u good get...i needed a friend so bad...things are so bad right now..and i have felt so guilty for what i did .....that just added to my problems...i appreciate you for not putting me down but bringing me up at least i had the support from u guys to encourge me even though i know i cant and wont do this again im just fed up with the cat and mouse game playing around with the slips ups since i slipped up after 7 monthes this summer dag gone it i did it once and i will do it again this time im mad mad as hell at those white sticks that burn smoke it stinks and tastes bad .....since my life has been a liveing hell these holidays im going to take it out on the ciggs and im so mad at them i could scream i hate them i hate them i hate them.....im not saying things right aww shit just blame it on the few ciggs i smoked the stupid things made my mind worse than it was and im going to stop now i dont know what in the hell im saying just thanks and have a Happy New YEAR!!!!..SMOKE FREE IN 2003.......Patsy

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - thank you Eileen.Paul.and Kita.....for replying to my post i was as far down as i think u good get...i needed a friend so bad...things are so bad right now..and i have felt so guilty for what i did .....that just added to my problems...i appreciate you for not putting me down but bringing me up at least i had the support from u guys to encourge me even though i know i cant and wont do this again im just fed up with the cat and mouse game playing around with the slips ups since i slipped up after 7 monthes this summer dag gone it i did it once and i will do it again this time im mad mad as hell at those white sticks that burn smoke it stinks and tastes bad .....since my life has been a liveing hell these holidays im going to take it out on the ciggs and im so mad at them i could scream i hate them i hate them i hate them.....im not saying things right aww shit just blame it on the few ciggs i smoked the stupid things made my mind worse than it was and im going to stop now i dont know what in the hell im saying just thanks and have a Happy New YEAR!!!!..SMOKE FREE IN 2003.......Patsy

You said things right. Keep feeling it. It's the first step to quitting. Just remember that feeling of hating them, and remember this when you crave. They stink when you're smoking them, but there are times when they will seem like a cure. Remember that they aren't. You can do it. There's a lot of stuff we can't really control or fix in life. But not smoking is one thing you can control. You'll be so proud of the accomplishment, too. Smoke free in 2003! Or at least ODAT in 2003!!! Kita

Response:

Just wanted to thank mike m jessica binnie joy and everyone else that has helped me through this smoking thing im dealing with look forward to seeing you again take care Lee

Response:

Just wanted to thank mike m jessica binnie joy and everyone else that has helped me through this smoking thing im dealing with look forward to seeing you again take care Lee

You're doing great, Lee.  The craves will become easier to deal with in time.... Sally

Response:

Hello - Thank you to all for the inspiration & encouragement you have provided me with, even though you didn't know it. I've been lurking here for about a month and have finally gotten the courage to post. It has been such an incredible help to read of others' successes and struggles.

Welcome!  Don't be such a stranger <bg -- mc I haven't lost my mind, It is backed up on disk somewhere. QOF

Response:

Thank you all for your warm welcome! I appreciate it. I apologize for not replying before now - I haven't figured out how to set up my Outlook yet and thus am relying on Google to view this nsg, which is kind of a pain. Tomorrow marks Week One! Happiness! Best from here, Squirrell

Response:

Hello - Thank you to all for the inspiration & encouragement you have provided me with, even though you didn't know it. I've been lurking here for about a month and have finally gotten the courage to post. It has been such an incredible help to read of others' successes and struggles. As for my own situation... I started smoking in June of 2001 and have wanted to quit ever since. For Christmas 2002, I got myself the patch and have been on-again, off-again since. I used to smoke about 8 cigarettes per day, and since XMas, have either gone for several days without, or about 2-3 on days that I did smoke. I even started a weblog so that my friends could keep track of my progress, and also so that if I slipped, I would be morally obligated to report it. Like I said, my progress has been mixed. After slipping today and painfully resetting my nicometer, I resolved that I should have a concrete financial incentive. So, if all goes well, I will be enjoying the spring and summer breezes watching the Seattle Mariners toast the rest of the American League. (/friendly, newbie poke at any non-Seattle AL folks who post here [I'm a grad student, so attending MLB games really is a big deal for my pocketbook.] Aaah… it felt great to write that. I decided that if I started to post here, it might help mentally. And I think it will. I look forward to being able to post milestones as they come. Again, my heartfelt thanks to all. Seattle Squirrell

Response:

Hello –

Welcome Seattle Squirrell. Aaah… it felt great to write that. I decided that if I started to post here, it might help mentally. And I think it will. I look forward to being able to post milestones as they come.

It does help to come here to read and post. I have my second longest quit because of this group, as a quit tool it’s invaluable. GregB Two years, nine months, two weeks, four days, 49 minutes and 42 seconds. 10230 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,636.92. Life saved: 5 weeks, 12 hours, 30 minutes.

Response:

Welcome aboard, Squirrel! Moll

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello – Thank you to all for the inspiration & encouragement you have provided me with, even though you didn’t know it. I’ve been lurking here for about a month and have finally gotten the courage to post. It has been such an incredible help to read of others’ successes and struggles. As for my own situation… I started smoking in June of 2001 and have wanted to quit ever since. For Christmas 2002, I got myself the patch and have been on-again, off-again since. I used to smoke about 8 cigarettes per day, and since XMas, have either gone for several days without, or about 2-3 on days that I did smoke. I even started a weblog so that my friends could keep track of my progress, and also so that if I slipped, I would be morally obligated to report it. Like I said, my progress has been mixed. After slipping today and painfully resetting my nicometer, I resolved that I should have a concrete financial incentive. So, if all goes well, I will be enjoying the spring and summer breezes watching the Seattle Mariners toast the rest of the American League. (/friendly, newbie poke at any non-Seattle AL folks who post here [I'm a grad student, so attending MLB games really is a big deal for my pocketbook.] Aaah… it felt great to write that. I decided that if I started to post here, it might help mentally. And I think it will. I look forward to being able to post milestones as they come. Again, my heartfelt thanks to all. Seattle Squirrell

Response:

Ruth — Way to go.  That is great.  We just keep quitting and quitting until we get it right.  Sounds like you finally got to the end.  Stay strong.  And hang tuff. Hang in there and Hang out here, Coleen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

Hey Ruth….look your right at the tip of your MMMonths… so let me bestow as little early your  new title ..please step forward Ruth your now the latest ….. QOF <quarter old fogey ) Well done and HaPpY DaNcInG for you Miss Maggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

Way to go, Ruth!!! You just keep on keeping on. Make sure to drop in when you hit 3 months (aka QOF) for celebration dances, etc. Lane, HOF+, f3as3 — Smober for 8m 1w 3d 8:36 . 10,139 cigarettes not smoked. Money saved for retirement: $2,027.80. Life saved for retirement: 1m 5d 4:55 . Read my Diary of a Quitter: http://www.bluethunder.org/quitterhome.html

: I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit : smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter : which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept : resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. : : Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. : I’m almost at the 3 month mark. : : I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for : 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was : smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of : what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still : have my moments of intense craving. : : I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, : I wish you so much luck with it. : : good luck to all and thanks again : : r- : : : : : : : : — : For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: :

Response:

CONGRATS on QOF Ruth! They say if you keep trying, eventually one will stick.  =) Bren 8M ruth said so eloquently: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Bren

Response:

""Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01.I’m almost at the 3 month mark."" ~~Ruth Well, WTG there Ruth.  Stop by a bit more often and keep us "posted" on your progress. I have had a quit meter running somewhere for years…  There were times that I would reset it, and times that I would get angry and hide it.  Now it is just this little baby meter, but I think it is kinda cute.  Wanna see it? Aw…shux, ma’am… ::::blush:::: here: Two weeks, five days, 4 hours, 47 minutes and 37 seconds. 959 cigarettes not smoked, saving $167.99. Life saved: 3 days, 7 hours, 55 minutes. david, a non-smoker since April 6, 2001 "I knew I had started to recover when I no longer craved cigars." ~~Monica Lewinski

Response:

GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! — Les Stewart Beaumont, Texas – reply email is incorrect "Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup." One year, three days, 13 minutes and 48 seconds. 18400 cigarettes not smoked, saving $2,760.07. Life saved: 9 weeks, 21 hours, 20 minutes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

thank you Eileen.Paul.and Kita…..for replying to my post i was as far down as i think u good get…i needed a friend so bad…things are so bad right now..and i have felt so guilty for what i did …..that just added to my problems…i appreciate you for not putting me down but bringing me up at least i had the support from u guys to encourge me even though i know i cant and wont do this again im just fed up with the cat and mouse game playing around with the slips ups since i slipped up after 7 monthes this summer dag gone it i did it once and i will do it again this time im mad mad as hell at those white sticks that burn smoke it stinks and tastes bad …..since my life has been a liveing hell these holidays im going to take it out on the ciggs and im so mad at them i could scream i hate them i hate them i hate them…..im not saying things right aww shit just blame it on the few ciggs i smoked the stupid things made my mind worse than it was and im going to stop now i dont know what in the hell im saying just thanks and have a Happy New YEAR!!!!..SMOKE FREE IN 2003…….Patsy

Response:

Patsy, Glad you’re getting back at it and hope you’re feeling quite a bit better  Hey, I really like your "smoke free in 2003"!! Blessings, Mommo Smober for One month, two weeks, four days and 19 hours. I have not smoked 1366 life taking cigarettes, saving $156.45 for a trip to Walt Disney World with our precious grand daughter AND I get to spend 4 days, 17 hours and 50 minutes more enjoying my main motivation pictured at http://www.quitbuddies.org/Buddies20.html#anchor72478 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thank you Eileen.Paul.and Kita…..for replying to my post i was as far down as i think u good get…i needed a friend so bad…things are so bad right now..and i have felt so guilty for what i did …..that just added to my problems…i appreciate you for not putting me down but bringing me up at least i had the support from u guys to encourge me even though i know i cant and wont do this again im just fed up with the cat and mouse game playing around with the slips ups since i slipped up after 7 monthes this summer dag gone it i did it once and i will do it again this time im mad mad as hell at those white sticks that burn smoke it stinks and tastes bad …..since my life has been a liveing hell these holidays im going to take it out on the ciggs and im so mad at them i could scream i hate them i hate them i hate them…..im not saying things right aww shit just blame it on the few ciggs i smoked the stupid things made my mind worse than it was and im going to stop now i dont know what in the hell im saying just thanks and have a Happy New YEAR!!!!..SMOKE FREE IN 2003…….Patsy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thank you Eileen.Paul.and Kita…..for replying to my post i was as far down as i think u good get…i needed a friend so bad…things are so bad right now..and i have felt so guilty for what i did …..that just added to my problems…i appreciate you for not putting me down but bringing me up at least i had the support from u guys to encourge me even though i know i cant and wont do this again im just fed up with the cat and mouse game playing around with the slips ups since i slipped up after 7 monthes this summer dag gone it i did it once and i will do it again this time im mad mad as hell at those white sticks that burn smoke it stinks and tastes bad …..since my life has been a liveing hell these holidays im going to take it out on the ciggs and im so mad at them i could scream i hate them i hate them i hate them…..im not saying things right aww shit just blame it on the few ciggs i smoked the stupid things made my mind worse than it was and im going to stop now i dont know what in the hell im saying just thanks and have a Happy New YEAR!!!!..SMOKE FREE IN 2003…….Patsy

You said things right. Keep feeling it. It’s the first step to quitting. Just remember that feeling of hating them, and remember this when you crave. They stink when you’re smoking them, but there are times when they will seem like a cure. Remember that they aren’t. You can do it. There’s a lot of stuff we can’t really control or fix in life. But not smoking is one thing you can control. You’ll be so proud of the accomplishment, too. Smoke free in 2003! Or at least ODAT in 2003!!! Kita

Response:

Just wanted to thank mike m jessica binnie joy and everyone else that has helped me through this smoking thing im dealing with look forward to seeing you again take care Lee

Response:

Just wanted to thank mike m jessica binnie joy and everyone else that has helped me through this smoking thing im dealing with look forward to seeing you again take care Lee

You’re doing great, Lee.  The craves will become easier to deal with in time…. Sally

Response:

Hello – Thank you to all for the inspiration & encouragement you have provided me with, even though you didn’t know it. I’ve been lurking here for about a month and have finally gotten the courage to post. It has been such an incredible help to read of others’ successes and struggles.

Welcome!  Don’t be such a stranger <bg — mc I haven’t lost my mind, It is backed up on disk somewhere. QOF

Response:

Thank you all for your warm welcome! I appreciate it. I apologize for not replying before now – I haven’t figured out how to set up my Outlook yet and thus am relying on Google to view this nsg, which is kind of a pain. Tomorrow marks Week One! Happiness! Best from here, Squirrell

Response:

Hello – Thank you to all for the inspiration & encouragement you have provided me with, even though you didn’t know it. I’ve been lurking here for about a month and have finally gotten the courage to post. It has been such an incredible help to read of others’ successes and struggles. As for my own situation… I started smoking in June of 2001 and have wanted to quit ever since. For Christmas 2002, I got myself the patch and have been on-again, off-again since. I used to smoke about 8 cigarettes per day, and since XMas, have either gone for several days without, or about 2-3 on days that I did smoke. I even started a weblog so that my friends could keep track of my progress, and also so that if I slipped, I would be morally obligated to report it. Like I said, my progress has been mixed. After slipping today and painfully resetting my nicometer, I resolved that I should have a concrete financial incentive. So, if all goes well, I will be enjoying the spring and summer breezes watching the Seattle Mariners toast the rest of the American League. (/friendly, newbie poke at any non-Seattle AL folks who post here [I'm a grad student, so attending MLB games really is a big deal for my pocketbook.] Aaah… it felt great to write that. I decided that if I started to post here, it might help mentally. And I think it will. I look forward to being able to post milestones as they come. Again, my heartfelt thanks to all. Seattle Squirrell

Response:

Hello –

Welcome Seattle Squirrell. Aaah… it felt great to write that. I decided that if I started to post here, it might help mentally. And I think it will. I look forward to being able to post milestones as they come.

It does help to come here to read and post. I have my second longest quit because of this group, as a quit tool it’s invaluable. GregB Two years, nine months, two weeks, four days, 49 minutes and 42 seconds. 10230 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,636.92. Life saved: 5 weeks, 12 hours, 30 minutes.

Response:

Welcome aboard, Squirrel! Moll

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello – Thank you to all for the inspiration & encouragement you have provided me with, even though you didn’t know it. I’ve been lurking here for about a month and have finally gotten the courage to post. It has been such an incredible help to read of others’ successes and struggles. As for my own situation… I started smoking in June of 2001 and have wanted to quit ever since. For Christmas 2002, I got myself the patch and have been on-again, off-again since. I used to smoke about 8 cigarettes per day, and since XMas, have either gone for several days without, or about 2-3 on days that I did smoke. I even started a weblog so that my friends could keep track of my progress, and also so that if I slipped, I would be morally obligated to report it. Like I said, my progress has been mixed. After slipping today and painfully resetting my nicometer, I resolved that I should have a concrete financial incentive. So, if all goes well, I will be enjoying the spring and summer breezes watching the Seattle Mariners toast the rest of the American League. (/friendly, newbie poke at any non-Seattle AL folks who post here [I'm a grad student, so attending MLB games really is a big deal for my pocketbook.] Aaah… it felt great to write that. I decided that if I started to post here, it might help mentally. And I think it will. I look forward to being able to post milestones as they come. Again, my heartfelt thanks to all. Seattle Squirrell

Response:

Ruth — Way to go.  That is great.  We just keep quitting and quitting until we get it right.  Sounds like you finally got to the end.  Stay strong.  And hang tuff. Hang in there and Hang out here, Coleen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

Hey Ruth….look your right at the tip of your MMMonths… so let me bestow as little early your  new title ..please step forward Ruth your now the latest ….. QOF <quarter old fogey ) Well done and HaPpY DaNcInG for you Miss Maggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

Way to go, Ruth!!! You just keep on keeping on. Make sure to drop in when you hit 3 months (aka QOF) for celebration dances, etc. Lane, HOF+, f3as3 — Smober for 8m 1w 3d 8:36 . 10,139 cigarettes not smoked. Money saved for retirement: $2,027.80. Life saved for retirement: 1m 5d 4:55 . Read my Diary of a Quitter: http://www.bluethunder.org/quitterhome.html

: I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit : smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter : which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept : resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. : : Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. : I’m almost at the 3 month mark. : : I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for : 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was : smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of : what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still : have my moments of intense craving. : : I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, : I wish you so much luck with it. : : good luck to all and thanks again : : r- : : : : : : : : — : For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: :

Response:

CONGRATS on QOF Ruth! They say if you keep trying, eventually one will stick.  =) Bren 8M ruth said so eloquently: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Bren

Response:

""Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01.I’m almost at the 3 month mark."" ~~Ruth Well, WTG there Ruth.  Stop by a bit more often and keep us "posted" on your progress. I have had a quit meter running somewhere for years…  There were times that I would reset it, and times that I would get angry and hide it.  Now it is just this little baby meter, but I think it is kinda cute.  Wanna see it? Aw…shux, ma’am… ::::blush:::: here: Two weeks, five days, 4 hours, 47 minutes and 37 seconds. 959 cigarettes not smoked, saving $167.99. Life saved: 3 days, 7 hours, 55 minutes. david, a non-smoker since April 6, 2001 "I knew I had started to recover when I no longer craved cigars." ~~Monica Lewinski

Response:

GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!!GoRuth!! — Les Stewart Beaumont, Texas – reply email is incorrect "Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup." One year, three days, 13 minutes and 48 seconds. 18400 cigarettes not smoked, saving $2,760.07. Life saved: 9 weeks, 21 hours, 20 minutes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

I stopped by here last year trying to find the motivation to quit smoking.  All I managed to do was to download the silkquit meter which I had seen a lot of you had.  For almost a year I kept resetting that meter aiming for a new quit date. Well, I did set it and I finally quit smoking.  That was on 1-26-01. I’m almost at the 3 month mark. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being here.  I smoked for 30 years and topped out at 3.5 packs per day.  When I quit I was smoking 1.5 packs per day.  That crazy meter was a large part of what kept me going.  I still check it quite often because I still have my moments of intense craving. I hope you will all stay quit, and for those of you looking to quit, I wish you so much luck with it. good luck to all and thanks again r- — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

Question:

Feeling somewhat better now.YES get it! You will be glad you did !!!!!!Usually if you are not elderly or extremly young and sick you have to pay for it.But this year it’s free so that tells ya something.Of course the hospitals up here cannot handle the patient load from the flu so they are trying to keep people healthy before hand i think. Keep Smilin ! Ziggy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy Dearest Ziggy, I really detest needles, too!  I can give injections, but I cannot stand to take injections! (go figure) As far as the flu shot thingy, I’ve never had one in my life, but I have to get one this year.  Since I’ve "officially" become a chronic asthma patient, I have to get one.  I am just as paranoid as you at becoming sick from it! ACK! ((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))) I pray your fear goes away soon! MUCH Love, Kkkkatie  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the eb  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email

Response:

Hello Grim: Did the doc get a new nurse yet? If I go in to get my flu shot I don’t want that miserable bitch of a nurse giving me the needle. I’m liable to take that needle and stick it you know where!!! Needles don’t bother me, we used to practice on oranges in school. My orange would scream! LOL Paula P.S. Do I need an appointment and do I need to see the doc for that? I hope not! I don’t like waiting hours to see him only to be rushed out!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy

Response:

Yuppers i think it was a good idea.Apparently there is a really bad one coming around!I’m having a hard time getting the hubby to get it though!!!!If i got the shot i think anybody who has the same phobia can because i am pretty bad for stuff like that! Love Ziggy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ziggy! I hate that too!  I’ve never had a flu shot because I was always afraid of getting sick from it.  It’s happened to a few people I know, but doctors say that they probably had the start of the flu anyway.  You’re not alone!  I hope your son feels better soon.  I think you were wise getting the shot. Hugs, Di Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy

Response:

Glad you got your shot, Ziggy!  Take good care of yourself, and be forgiving to yourself for fearing what is in the needle.  You will get through this! Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy

– Friends are flowers in life’s garden.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy

Dearest Ziggy, I really detest needles, too!  I can give injections, but I cannot stand to take injections! (go figure) As far as the flu shot thingy, I’ve never had one in my life, but I have to get one this year.  Since I’ve "officially" become a chronic asthma patient, I have to get one.  I am just as paranoid as you at becoming sick from it! ACK! ((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))) I pray your fear goes away soon! MUCH Love, Kkkkatie  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Hello Chille: Hmmmmmm you mean the Blonde dingbat??No this one was medium sized with reddish hair.I think Garriock’s nurse unsure.She was nice.No appointment needed, just go in between 8-12& 1-4:00 Lord heaven forbid don’t go at Noon !!!!!! and wait till exactly 1:00 don’t even stand at the door at 12:59 hell they won’t let ya in!! IMLAO……TeeeeeeeHeeeeeeeeee Ya I’m but i used that homemade Heart jumper you designed and i’m happy to say the ticker is tickety boo and Hell I"M FLU FREE !!!!! Come over i’ll give ya a shot!!!!!! IMLAO Love Ya Buddy Ole Pal O Mine!!!!!!! Ziggy—-remember ziggy-Get yer flu shot

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Grim: Did the doc get a new nurse yet? If I go in to get my flu shot I don’t want that miserable bitch of a nurse giving me the needle. I’m liable to take that needle and stick it you know where!!! Needles don’t bother me, we used to practice on oranges in school. My orange would scream! LOL Paula P.S. Do I need an appointment and do I need to see the doc for that? I hope not! I don’t like waiting hours to see him only to be rushed out! Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy

Response:

Thank You Brian!!!! I do feel alot better.No side effects so far!!!!!I feel crappy but i think it’s anxiety!Have a great day!!!!!!! Love,Ziggy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ziggy, This is VERY typical and common to feel when you have an anxiety disorder. We all fear losing control of our bodies…such as from side effects of meds or anything else for that matter. You are FAR from alone on this one. Flu shots are very safe though. Side effects are rare. Most people do not feel a thing afterwards so try and relax. Don’t think about it. Reassure yourself that it was a POSITIVE and beneficial thing to get the shot. It may prevent you from the aweful flu which can really wreak havoc on an anxious person. Good luck. Brian C.

Response:

Ya i realize that med phobia is very common.Well i had it around 9 am this morning and it’s now around 1:00 TeeeHeee Hell ,,,,,,,i’m not dead yet!LOL Well i feel extemely tired and a little crappy so i took some tylenol just in case.LOL Tylenol is the only thing i don’t mind taking because i get quite a few headaches.Thanks , i think Alex will be okay.I’m gonna take him back in a week for the flu shot too.Good Idea to get it!when ya think about it.Having the flu is worse than symptoms from the shot.The only reason i took it was to show Alex that it’s no big deal LOL well i was the only one who ended up getting it!LOLWe people with med phobia always tend to be the ones asking the questions eh!LOL Like what will happen after, side effects etc……i wonder if the nurses call tell that we have the phobia!!! Okay well Take Care !!!!!!! Love Ziggy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy Dear Ziggy, It sounds like you have med phobia, which is quite common with anxiety disorders. I have a hard time taking any new med, I always fear a side-effect or allergic reaction. You are not being silly at all. I am going to the doctor next Friday for a checkup and to have my thyroid tested and I want to ask for the flu shot.  Like you I am nervous that I will have a side-effect. I have to remind myself how sick I was last December, maybe that will help me to get the flu shot. I hope your son feels better soon. My six year old has a cold and had me up alot last night ( Take care!! Jackie

Response:

Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy

Dear Ziggy, It sounds like you have med phobia, which is quite common with anxiety disorders. I have a hard time taking any new med, I always fear a side-effect or allergic reaction. You are not being silly at all. I am going to the doctor next Friday for a checkup and to have my thyroid tested and I want to ask for the flu shot.  Like you I am nervous that I will have a side-effect. I have to remind myself how sick I was last December, maybe that will help me to get the flu shot. I hope your son feels better soon. My six year old has a cold and had me up alot last night ( Take care!! Jackie

Response:

Ziggy, This is VERY typical and common to feel when you have an anxiety disorder. We all fear losing control of our bodies…such as from side effects of meds or anything else for that matter. You are FAR from alone on this one. Flu shots are very safe though. Side effects are rare. Most people do not feel a thing afterwards so try and relax. Don’t think about it. Reassure yourself that it was a POSITIVE and beneficial thing to get the shot. It may prevent you from the aweful flu which can really wreak havoc on an anxious person. Good luck. Brian C.

Response:

Hi Ziggy! I hate that too!  I’ve never had a flu shot because I was always afraid of getting sick from it.  It’s happened to a few people I know, but doctors say that they probably had the start of the flu anyway.  You’re not alone!  I hope your son feels better soon.  I think you were wise getting the shot. Hugs, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang! Well i went this morning and got the Flu shot! I did fine ……i didn’t even wince as she stabbed my arm! However about 5 seconds later i began to feel light headed and experienced great anxiety!It isn’t the needle that bothers me but whats in the needle.Does this make sense? Now i am feeling panicky……fear of dying, having a fever, getting sick!Is this normal?I wouldn’t have bothered except for the fact that my young son is in school and so much crap is going around.I haven’t had the flu in like 17 years but i took precautionary measures because apparently there is a bad flu going around here(Ontario, Canada)My son has a slight cold so they wouldn’t give it too him.Alex will be getting one in a week or so.Changing bed linen at 2 am is not fun!I’m sure every Mom in ASAP would agree! LOL Well i may be being silly i don’t know.I am a Hypo when it comes to meds! Okay well I shall end my post now as i am ready to pass out from this panic attack !!!!!Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhh i hope i don’t get sick now!!!! Love Ziggy

Response:

Question:

Hello CBI, How does a doctor distinguish between asthma and Sardoidosis?  I know my asthma was diagnosed after I moved into a house with a mold problem (and became sick by the 3rd day I was in the house), but unfortunately didn’t really improve much after I moved out a year later. Patrice

The confusion comes from the fact that the symptoms can be very similar with wheezing, dry cough, and shortness of breath. Sarcoid also responds to steroids so "therapeutic trials" with prednisone can muddy the picture. Although sarcoid is not a reversible obstructive disease, like asthma, patient’s will also frequently feel better while taking bronchodilators like albuterol (Proventil/Ventolin). The difference can usually be distinguished on chest x-ray and pulmonary function testing. Even with this, a mild case of sarcoid can give normal results for each and be confused with a mild case of asthma which also may have normal test results. Since the treatment for sarcoid is steroids there is probably not much harm if it is mistakenly diagnosed as asthma and the treatment results in abatement of the symptoms. It is an example of a "masquerader" that should result in further diagnostic testing of the treatment for asthma is not going well. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.

Response:

Happens all the time.

Response:

Has anybody ever heard of sarcoidosis being misdiagnosed as asthma?

In case anyone is wondering what this is: http://www.mayohealth.org/mayo/9611/htm/sarcoido.htm

Response:

Has anybody ever heard of sarcoidosis being misdiagnosed as asthma?

Response:

A bad bout of the flu, followed by a reoccurrence of childhood asthma symptoms and a hospital stay, was initially diagnosed as asthma and then emphysema (sic) by two pulmonary specialists.  My GP finally diagnosed  my condition as sarcoid after my symptoms worsened.  niasha

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody ever heard of sarcoidosis being misdiagnosed as asthma?

Response:

Has anybody ever heard of sarcoidosis being misdiagnosed as asthma?

having had something that was tentatively diagnosed as sarcoidosis I would have thought it unlikely given how different the symptoms seem to be — eric "when all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done"

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aloha all, I have been a Healing Touch practitioner I seem to remember that ‘healing touch’ was debunked by a 12 year old girl doing a science project.  The findings were so solid they were published in the prestigious Journal of the American Medical Association. Hmm…how does a 12 yo’s science project get published in JAMA? That seems pretty strange. If I recall, her experiment tested whether a TT person could detect the presence of her hand. As far as I know, TT therapy does not involve detecting the presence of a person’s hand. If she wanted to test TT therapy then she should have have tested a typical TT treatment rather than contrive some artificial construct, assume it represented TT, and extropolate the results from her testing her construct onto typical TT therapy. Her test showed her assumption/study design/artificial construct was invalid. That is not the same as showing TT is invalid. Thanks you for sharing on the news group.  Incidentally, the human energy field can often relax an asthma patient and help them breathe better and reduce panic. What ‘human energy field’?  Violating the laws of physics today? What laws of physics is it violating? ..diane Bull-crap. TT involves being able to sense a ‘field’ emitted by a persons body. These quacks have been manipulating the fields around patient’s feet during cardiac surgery. How can you manipulate to positive effect what you cannot at all sense?

Good question. But rather than assuming and asserting that one can’t (which is bad science), why not do some studies on a typical TT therapy and see what the results are?  The TT practitioners agreed to this little girl’s high school science project because they actually believed that they would be vindicated.

Maybe they did. So what? Lots of folks like to do and be involved in experiments. What does that have to do with making assumptions about what is happening in TT then making assertions on those assumptions? More wiggling and obfuscating by ..diane, the biggest abuser of this group if sheer quantity of nonsense is the standard.

Asking questions is wiggling and obfuscating? Don’t scientists ask questions? I thought skeptics asked questions also. It is surprising that some of the ’skeptics’ around here are not asking some obvious questions about this study. ..diane

Response:

Let me guess, Valerie Hunt, Ed.D.’s So she has a Doctorate in education, strong credentials to become a medical authority.

I guess it depends on what type of education it is in. It also seems like she has to be able to do research in order to get a PhD. I haven’t read the info so I don’t know what her opinion is or what it is based on. I do know it is premature to draw conclusions on her opinion without knowing what it is or what it is based on. study Barbara Brennan’s two books or Rosalyn Bruyere’s book Are they reviewing peer-reviewed literature?  What are their credentials?

I don’t know about Bruyere but the info I have is that Brennan has an MS in Atmospheric Physics and was a research scientist for NASA at the Goddard Space Flight Center. As such I suspect Brennan knows something about research and peer-review. I suspect she also knows something about energy. 40,000 health care professionals over the past 25 years What constitutes a ‘health care professional’?  You say you are a "Healing Touch practitioner and volunteer", does that make you a ‘health care professional’?

I think many nurses practice TT. Nurses are recognized health care professionals. ..diane

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aloha all, I have been a Healing Touch practitioner I seem to remember that ‘healing touch’ was debunked by a 12 year old girl doing a science project.  The findings were so solid they were published in the prestigious Journal of the American Medical Association. Hmm…how does a 12 yo’s science project get published in JAMA? That seems pretty strange. If I recall, her experiment tested whether a TT person could detect the presence of her hand. As far as I know, TT therapy does not involve detecting the presence of a person’s hand. If she wanted to test TT therapy then she should have have tested a typical TT treatment rather than contrive some artificial construct, assume it represented TT, and extropolate the results from her testing her construct onto typical TT therapy. Her test showed her assumption/study design/artificial construct was invalid. That is not the same as showing TT is invalid. Thanks you for sharing on the news group.  Incidentally, the human energy field can often relax an asthma patient and help them breathe better and reduce panic. What ‘human energy field’?  Violating the laws of physics today? What laws of physics is it violating? ..diane Bull-crap. TT involves being able to sense a ‘field’ emitted by a persons body. These quacks have been manipulating the fields around patient’s feet during cardiac surgery. How can you manipulate to positive effect what you cannot at all sense? The TT practitioners agreed to this little girl’s high school science project because they actually believed that they would be vindicated. More wiggling and obfuscating by ..diane, the biggest abuser of this group if sheer quantity of nonsense is the standard.

Anyway, a little touch therapy would do me some good right now. We all NEED human contact and touching. It heals, it sooths, it is needed. Babies need to be touched- we all know this. Why do we have to come up with silly energy field discussions about this???? A hug feels good. At this point in time the study of neurobiology is very new. The brain is so very complicated.  for now, it is too soon to try to explain these things scientfically. I like this poem of ee cummings.. I may not remember it completely but I’ll try: "O sweet spontaneous" O sweet spontaneous earth   ‘how often have prurient philosophers pinched and poked thee ‘how often have religions taken thee upon their scraggly knees squeezing and buffeting thee that thou might concieve gods ‘how often has the naughty thumb of science prodded thy beauty But true to thy incomparable couch of death thy, rythmic lover, thou answerest them only with spring. I have a naughty thumb Chilla (Hey I got a job offer at big pharma in Munich, and an open invitation to visit- i.e. a free trip to Germany). You know what I am looking for in a job though??? A place of high moral standards. That is what is most important to me.

Response:

A Close Look at Therapeutic Touch                                              Abstract                    Linda Rosa, BSN, RN; Emily Rosa; Larry Sarner; Stephen Barrett, MD                                      JAMA. 1998;279:1005-1010

Well, well. Look who is listed here….Mr. Quack(watch) himself…the retired psychiatrist. How did he get involved in a 12 yo’s science project? How did he get involved in its publication in JAMA? How many 12 yos have had their science projects published in JAMA? I think these are some questions that skeptics should be asking.       Context.

Question:

Todd: We have seen great results from a food supplement concentrate — Intra, a product developed by a Chinese doctor. This product has brought extended relief to many as it seems to balance the immune system and helps the body help itself. You can read about some it has helped at: http://www.lifestyler.com/jr/tests.htm Good luck, we a re pleased with what it has done for people we know. Ted & Jude 5.If I only had this breathing problem like once or twice in my whole life,should I be worried?  Do you think it was just an isolated incident like a viral infection? Thanks to anyone who can answer these questions. Todd

Response:

I am 32 and have lived with asthma all of my life.  Asthma is a symptom of an allergy.  In other words some people with allergies sneeze, others wheeze, while still others have some or all allergy symptoms.   I know people who have never had any real allergy symptoms, but are diagnosed with asthma very late in life, so I guess the answer to your question is that asthma can appear and disappear at anytime for a number of different reasons.  Just like allergies change with the seasons, asthma changes too.  Based on your environment asthma can get better and worse throughout your life.  The best thing to do is 1) Don’t worry about whether or not you have asthma.  2) Find a reputable allergy specialist that you can trust completely,  3)  Get treated for your symptoms and stick with that treatment  program unless you discuss changes with your doctor, and 4) continue to live your life – exercise and eat right – as you would do normally. See additional comments below: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok….I was just wondering if anyone out there had the answers to the questions below. 1.Is there a difference between allergies and asthma?  I’ve had allergies all my life but not to the severe point.  When I was younger I had coughing spells a lot and sneezing but never breathing problems.  So is it possible for a person to only have allergies and not asthma?  Cause my parents told me that I had asthmatic symptoms but not ashtma.  But right now I’m 21 years old and I am on Claritin which really helps a lot.  My most common symptom is sneezing and with Claritin I sneeze very rarely. 2.Back in January I came down with chest tightness for about two weeks. I never had breathing problems in all my life but it happened back in January.  How could this happen?  Basically what it was was where I couldn’t get a full breath.  Like I would inhale and it would feel like I could only get about 50%.  I had no problem breathing out.  Just in.  The doctor said it was a viral infection and that it would go away.  Well it eventually did but I was afraid I had asthma for a while.  So what could have caused this?  I live in Ohio and back in January the weather was pretty rough.  Could weather cause a viral infection?  What exactly is a viral infection?  Cause now the weather is pretty nice out and I don’t really have that breathing problem anymore.

Someone with asthma has a more difficult time getting over colds and flu. The cough that most people get with colds tend to settle in your lungs for a longer period of time.  If a cold is severe enough it can lead to pneumonia and bronchitis – but just because you are diagnosed with these symptoms does not necessarily indicate that you have asthma. 3.Is it normal to wheeze once in a while?  Sometimes I’ll have a wheeze and no breathing problem.  Is this normal?  If not,what could be going on? 4.My allergies seemed to have gotten better over the years.  They were worse when I was a kid.  Realisticly what are the chances of someone allergies or asthma re-appearing in a severe manner later in life?  I heard that asthma is more common in young kids rather than adults or senior citizens and that allergies often go away as you get older.  I’m just wondering if I should worry about getting asthma later in life.  I’m 21 right now and I don’t smoke.  Can you get asthma from smoking?

Everyone said that I would grow out of my problems with allergies and asthma, and here I am – living proof that nobody really knows.  My belief is that once you have allergies (and everyone has them in one form or another) they can get better and worse over time.  It all depends on your general health, your environment, and your bodies tolerance to the allergens around you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 5.If I only had this breathing problem like once or twice in my whole life,should I be worried?  Do you think it was just an isolated incident like a viral infection? Thanks to anyone who can answer these questions. Todd

Response:

Ok….I was just wondering if anyone out there had the answers to the questions below.   1.Is there a difference between allergies and asthma?  

Yes.  Allergies are immune-mediated responses to specific substances which can take a number of forms, one of which is an allergic asthma attack.  Asthma is a constriction of the airways, and can have non-allergic causes. 2.Back in January I came down with chest tightness for about two weeks.   I never had breathing problems in all my life but it happened back in January.  How could this happen?  Basically what it was was where I couldn’t get a full breath.  Like I would inhale and it would feel like I could only get about 50%.  I had no problem breathing out.  Just in.  The doctor said it was a viral infection and that it would go away.  Well it eventually did but I was afraid I had asthma for a while.  So what could have caused this?  

A viral infection, just as your doctor said. I live in Ohio and back in January the weather was pretty rough.  Could weather cause a viral infection?  

No.  However, exposure to inclement weather without proper gear can cause physical stress which can make you more susceptible to a viral infection, or make an extant one more severe. What exactly is a viral infection?  

Viruses are semi-living bundles of nucleic acid and protein.  When they infect a cell, they pirate the cell’s metabolism to make more viruses.  In the process, they often kill the cell; and, as foreign bodies, are attacked by the immune system. 3.Is it normal to wheeze once in a while?  Sometimes I’ll have a wheeze and no breathing problem.  Is this normal?  If not,what could be going on?

Wheezing isn’t normal.  It may be asthma, or it may be a temporary mechanical problem with breathing.  You need to have your doctor check this out. 4.My allergies seemed to have gotten better over the years.  They were worse when I was a kid.  Realisticly what are the chances of someone allergies or asthma re-appearing in a severe manner later in life?  

About 3/4 of people experience some improvement in childhood allergies.  Some people have relapses to the allergic state later in life. I heard that asthma is more common in young kids rather than adults or senior citizens and that allergies often go away as you get older.  I’m just wondering if I should worry about getting asthma later in life.  I’m 21 right now and I don’t smoke.  Can you get asthma from smoking?  

No, but you shouldn’t smoke, anyway; as it causes a lot of other problems.  If you already have subclinical asthma, it can cause it to manifest.  Personally, I wouldn’t worry about getting asthma.  Either you will or you won’t [and the odds are in favor of 'won't']; and there isn’t much you can do to prevent it. 5.If I only had this breathing problem like once or twice in my whole life,should I be worried?  

No. Do you think it was just an isolated incident like a viral infection?  

Sounds like it. Chris Owens

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m only a allergy and asthma patient who only now has near total control over asthma and allergies thanks to Singulair and Claritin.  I remember my allergists telling me that, although asthma and allergies are usually link in most individuals, you can have allergies without asthma (many people do) and occasionally have asthma without allergies (like exercise induced or temperture induced asthma attacks). They are not the same thing. From what I seen, it can be normal to have shortness of breath or tightness in the chest once in a while due to bronchistis or other respiratory infections, but if I were you (because of question 3), I would be evaluated by an allergy and asthma specialist first, if your in doubt.  You could have asthma that needs to be controlled daily or only occasionally controlled by allergy avoidance or medication.  You also may have had a respiratory illness during January, I don’t know, but I say "When in doubt, check it out".  The evaluation is not that bad and testing negative for asthma would be a BIG boost to anyone’s peace-of-mind with questions like yours. If you do find out that you have asthma, which is not likely, its often NOT the worst thing in the world to have.  Properly controlled asthma does prevent health problems further down the road and this proper control of asthma symptoms is now possible for a vast majority of asthmatics thanks to new medications that have few or sometimes NO side effects.  This last statement came from my allergist, paraphrased of course. Good luck and hope you’ll stay breathing well, Rob Steinbach

Hey thanks for that detailed response.  So you think it’s possible for people to get random respiratory illnesses maybe during bad weather?   Cause I figured if I had asthma I would have trouble breathing all the time.  And back in January was the first time I had that chest tightness and then like I said it went away.  And I have felt fine ever since.  I did indeed go to my family physician and an allergist during this period and both were pretty sure it wasn’t asthma.  They said if I had asthma that I would definitely know it.  Like I could hardly breathe.  And the allergist said it was probably a virus in the air maybe that irritated my bronchules.  So that made me relieved to know that I probably didn’t have asthma.  How bad is your asthma?  Are you living a restricted lifestyle or can you do most things and activities?  My allergies like I said aren’t bad at all.  I take Claritin once a day and it helps a lot.  I hardly sneeze at all.  What are you allergic to?  I’m allergic to cats and grass and we have a cat in my house and it don’t bother me at all.   So that’s definitely a good thing.  Well thanks for your response and I hope you are breathing good too! Todd

Response:

Ok….I was just wondering if anyone out there had the answers to the questions below.   1.Is there a difference between allergies and asthma?  I’ve had allergies all my life but not to the severe point.  When I was younger I had coughing spells a lot and sneezing but never breathing problems.  So is it possible for a person to only have allergies and not asthma?  Cause my parents told me that I had asthmatic symptoms but not ashtma.  But right now I’m 21 years old and I am on Claritin which really helps a lot.  My most common symptom is sneezing and with Claritin I sneeze very rarely.   2.Back in January I came down with chest tightness for about two weeks.   I never had breathing problems in all my life but it happened back in January.  How could this happen?  Basically what it was was where I couldn’t get a full breath.  Like I would inhale and it would feel like I could only get about 50%.  I had no problem breathing out.  Just in.  The doctor said it was a viral infection and that it would go away.  Well it eventually did but I was afraid I had asthma for a while.  So what could have caused this?  I live in Ohio and back in January the weather was pretty rough.  Could weather cause a viral infection?  What exactly is a viral infection?  Cause now the weather is pretty nice out and I don’t really have that breathing problem anymore.   3.Is it normal to wheeze once in a while?  Sometimes I’ll have a wheeze and no breathing problem.  Is this normal?  If not,what could be going on? 4.My allergies seemed to have gotten better over the years.  They were worse when I was a kid.  Realisticly what are the chances of someone allergies or asthma re-appearing in a severe manner later in life?  I heard that asthma is more common in young kids rather than adults or senior citizens and that allergies often go away as you get older.  I’m just wondering if I should worry about getting asthma later in life.  I’m 21 right now and I don’t smoke.  Can you get asthma from smoking?   5.If I only had this breathing problem like once or twice in my whole life,should I be worried?  Do you think it was just an isolated incident like a viral infection?   Thanks to anyone who can answer these questions. Todd

Response:

Ok….I was just wondering if anyone out there had the answers to the questions below. 1.Is there a difference between allergies and asthma? (snip) 2.Back in January I came down with chest tightness for about two weeks. I never had breathing problems in all my life but it happened back in January.  How could this happen? 3.Is it normal to wheeze once in a while?  Sometimes I’ll have a wheeze and no breathing problem.  Is this normal?  If not,what could be going on? 5.If I only had this breathing problem like once or twice in my whole life,should I be worried?  Do you think it was just an isolated incident like a viral infection?

I’m only a allergy and asthma patient who only now has near total control over asthma and allergies thanks to Singulair and Claritin.  I remember my allergists telling me that, although asthma and allergies are usually link in most individuals, you can have allergies without asthma (many people do) and occasionally have asthma without allergies (like exercise induced or temperture induced asthma attacks). They are not the same thing. From what I seen, it can be normal to have shortness of breath or tightness in the chest once in a while due to bronchistis or other respiratory infections, but if I were you (because of question 3), I would be evaluated by an allergy and asthma specialist first, if your in doubt.  You could have asthma that needs to be controlled daily or only occasionally controlled by allergy avoidance or medication.  You also may have had a respiratory illness during January, I don’t know, but I say "When in doubt, check it out".  The evaluation is not that bad and testing negative for asthma would be a BIG boost to anyone’s peace-of-mind with questions like yours. If you do find out that you have asthma, which is not likely, its often NOT the worst thing in the world to have.  Properly controlled asthma does prevent health problems further down the road and this proper control of asthma symptoms is now possible for a vast majority of asthmatics thanks to new medications that have few or sometimes NO side effects.  This last statement came from my allergist, paraphrased of course. Good luck and hope you’ll stay breathing well, Rob Steinbach

Response:

I think I remember Dave, that you’ve had a battery of tests tests, and so far I have not had any. I will not be very impressed if all the consultant does is send me away with an aspirin! I want some decent mileage from the time I spend with him! Peter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my first clinic appointment for mid May, but after I phoned them they had me in last Friday. Bit of a waste of time though as everything they did and told me had already been covered by the Sister at my GP’s Surgery, who luckily is qualified for diabetes treatment. — Dave Townsend, T1, UK Good points Dave. I picked up my first hospital prescription yesterday. They gave me 5 disposable insulin pens. They are plastic and definitely not as sexy as the NovoPen3 they first gave me Can’t have it all, eh? Plus they gave me a box of 200 lancets, another box of 100 insulin needles, and two tubs of 50 test strips. I looked at it and darn well thought a wheelbarrow might have been useful to get it all home. Problems there are with the NHS maybe, but my experience restores some faith in it. One problem though, I’m only booked to see the consultant in June. Until then, there is plenty more stabbing to do! That makes me so thankful for the National Health Service in the UK. All my "stuff" is free on prescription, incl. Lancets, test strips etc, so I change my lancet needle every single time I use it (currently testing 7x per day) and so hopefully greatly reduce both the pain of taking blood and the chances of a finger infection. If you don’t change your lancet needle and do get an infection, won’t the costs of antibiotics and dressings outweigh the cost of a few boxes of lancets? — Dave Townsend, T1, UK Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson I don’t know about them, but I know that I change mine every month or so, without fail. I change mine when it finally occurs to me that, doh, the lancet’s getting dull. Usually takes about 3-4 months. I still have over half the sample lancets that came with my meter almost 2 years ago. — Alice F posting from a new account

Response:

I got my first clinic appointment for mid May, but after I phoned them they had me in last Friday. Bit of a waste of time though as everything they did and told me had already been covered by the Sister at my GP’s Surgery, who luckily is qualified for diabetes treatment. — Dave Townsend, T1, UK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good points Dave. I picked up my first hospital prescription yesterday. They gave me 5 disposable insulin pens. They are plastic and definitely not as sexy as the NovoPen3 they first gave me Can’t have it all, eh? Plus they gave me a box of 200 lancets, another box of 100 insulin needles, and two tubs of 50 test strips. I looked at it and darn well thought a wheelbarrow might have been useful to get it all home. Problems there are with the NHS maybe, but my experience restores some faith in it. One problem though, I’m only booked to see the consultant in June. Until then, there is plenty more stabbing to do! That makes me so thankful for the National Health Service in the UK. All my "stuff" is free on prescription, incl. Lancets, test strips etc, so I change my lancet needle every single time I use it (currently testing 7x per day) and so hopefully greatly reduce both the pain of taking blood and the chances of a finger infection. If you don’t change your lancet needle and do get an infection, won’t the costs of antibiotics and dressings outweigh the cost of a few boxes of lancets? — Dave Townsend, T1, UK Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson I don’t know about them, but I know that I change mine every month or so, without fail. I change mine when it finally occurs to me that, doh, the lancet’s getting dull. Usually takes about 3-4 months. I still have over half the sample lancets that came with my meter almost 2 years ago. — Alice F posting from a new account

Response:

no……. i change mine every c couple of months when i remember, when it hurts or when there is a new thread about changing the lancet

lol – the lancet threads do start up pretty regularly, don’t they .

Response:

Good points Dave. I picked up my first hospital prescription yesterday. They gave me 5 disposable insulin pens. They are plastic and definitely not as sexy as the NovoPen3 they first gave me Can’t have it all, eh? Plus they gave me a box of 200 lancets, another box of 100 insulin needles, and two tubs of 50 test strips. I looked at it and darn well thought a wheelbarrow might have been useful to get it all home. Problems there are with the NHS maybe, but my experience restores some faith in it. One problem though, I’m only booked to see the consultant in June. Until then, there is plenty more stabbing to do!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That makes me so thankful for the National Health Service in the UK. All my "stuff" is free on prescription, incl. Lancets, test strips etc, so I change my lancet needle every single time I use it (currently testing 7x per day) and so hopefully greatly reduce both the pain of taking blood and the chances of a finger infection. If you don’t change your lancet needle and do get an infection, won’t the costs of antibiotics and dressings outweigh the cost of a few boxes of lancets? — Dave Townsend, T1, UK Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson I don’t know about them, but I know that I change mine every month or so, without fail. I change mine when it finally occurs to me that, doh, the lancet’s getting dull. Usually takes about 3-4 months. I still have over half the sample lancets that came with my meter almost 2 years ago. — Alice F posting from a new account

Response:

Boy, I sure am learning alot here.  Ref the lancet question, I’ve been changing mine every time I test.  So, am I to understand that that is not necessary??? Denny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson I don’t know about them, but I know that I change mine every month or so, without fail. I change mine when it finally occurs to me that, doh, the lancet’s getting dull. Usually takes about 3-4 months. I still have over half the sample lancets that came with my meter almost 2 years ago. — Alice F posting from a new account

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Response:

Boy, I sure am learning alot here.  Ref the lancet question, I’ve been changing mine every time I test.  So, am I to understand that that is not necessary??? Denny

That’s not necessary.  Drs. offices and hospitals must change for each new patient for the sake of sterility.  If you are the only person using your lancet, then simply change as you see fit.  Some people do better with a sharp lancet and others with a dull one.   I can usually get 3-4 sticks with mine.  After that they get a bit too painful for me.  I have a bad memory and can’t always remember how many times I’ve stuck myself with a particular lancet.  So I just put a new one in each morning.  If for some reason I am having a bad day and find I must test more than normal, I might change during the day.  It mainly depends on your comfort level and how often you can afford to change them.  The kind I use aren’t particularly expensive, so I can afford to put a new one in each day. — http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/

Response:

no……. i change mine every c couple of months when i remember, when it hurts or when there is a new thread about changing the lancet — k t1 13 yr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, I sure am learning alot here.  Ref the lancet question, I’ve been changing mine every time I test.  So, am I to understand that that is not necessary??? Denny Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson I don’t know about them, but I know that I change mine every month or so, without fail. I change mine when it finally occurs to me that, doh, the lancet’s getting dull. Usually takes about 3-4 months. I still have over half the sample lancets that came with my meter almost 2 years ago. — Alice F posting from a new account —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

That makes me so thankful for the National Health Service in the UK. All my "stuff" is free on prescription, incl. Lancets, test strips etc, so I change my lancet needle every single time I use it (currently testing 7x per day) and so hopefully greatly reduce both the pain of taking blood and the chances of a finger infection. If you don’t change your lancet needle and do get an infection, won’t the costs of antibiotics and dressings outweigh the cost of a few boxes of lancets? — Dave Townsend, T1, UK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson I don’t know about them, but I know that I change mine every month or so, without fail. I change mine when it finally occurs to me that, doh, the lancet’s getting dull. Usually takes about 3-4 months. I still have over half the sample lancets that came with my meter almost 2 years ago. — Alice F posting from a new account

Response:

I thought we were suppose to change them when we change the clocks and batteries in smoke alarms?

There are batteries in smoke alarms?

Response:

How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new

one? I change it when it hurts, could be months.

Response:

How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one?

Thanks to everyone who replied. — Tony Polson

Response:

I thought we were suppose to change them when we change the clocks and batteries in smoke alarms?

Close, it was when daylight savings time comes around. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chris Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? I keep using it until it either gets too dull to produce enough blood, or until it just hurts way too much. I use a FastTake meter, which takes far less blood that Precision or OneTouch, and I use an adjustable lancet pen.  When I have it adjusted for full depth, and can’t get any blood even out of my pinky fingers (usually the easiest places) then I change my lancet. — dx as Type 1 in Mar 00, joyfully pumpin’ since October! "I’d rather be loved by only me,     than create a facade and be loved by no one." — wombn "Never give up", Winston Churchill www.mindspring.com/~wombn On ANY "advice" I give here: I expect you to research it and confirm it independently

– Dave – 9:53:07 AM T2 – 8/98 Glucophage, NPH, H –   Davors Daily Aphorism: Gravity brings me down — Visit my HomePage:   http://dorcutt.homepage.com —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Probably a week or so.  I get 100 needles per $14.95 for my softclix lancet so I don’t hang onto them for as long as i suppose I could. — The Sarge (T2, Diaformin.  Sep2000  Canberra Australia) OzGirl – 10 This quote is only worth 5 points for which movie it comes from. "I ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I didn’t have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn’t come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! It wasn’t my fault, I swear to god!"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson

Response:

I thought we were suppose to change them when we change the clocks and batteries in smoke alarms? Chris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? I keep using it until it either gets too dull to produce enough blood, or until it just hurts way too much. I use a FastTake meter, which takes far less blood that Precision or OneTouch, and I use an adjustable lancet pen.  When I have it adjusted for full depth, and can’t get any blood even out of my pinky fingers (usually the easiest places) then I change my lancet. — dx as Type 1 in Mar 00, joyfully pumpin’ since October! "I’d rather be loved by only me,     than create a facade and be loved by no one." — wombn "Never give up", Winston Churchill www.mindspring.com/~wombn On ANY "advice" I give here: I expect you to research it and confirm it

independently

Response:

How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson I don’t know about them, but I know that I change mine every month or so, without fail.

months…. thanks for the "heads up" — k t1 13 yr

Response:

Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one?

I keep using it until it either gets too dull to produce enough blood, or until it just hurts way too much.   I use a FastTake meter, which takes far less blood that Precision or OneTouch, and I use an adjustable lancet pen.  When I have it adjusted for full depth, and can’t get any blood even out of my pinky fingers (usually the easiest places) then I change my lancet. — dx as Type 1 in Mar 00, joyfully pumpin’ since October! "I’d rather be loved by only me,     than create a facade and be loved by no one." — wombn "Never give up", Winston Churchill www.mindspring.com/~wombn On ANY "advice" I give here: I expect you to research it and confirm it independently

Response:

I’m not the person to whom the question was directed, but I use my lancet lots and lots and lots of times before replacing it.  It’s mostly laziness on my part — I’ve got MORE than enough needles to replace it daily or more.  In fact, reading this thread, I just realized I can’t *remember* when I last changed it and REALLY ought to.  Surprisingly, it’s not dull or painful yet, though a couple of times lately I’ve gotten only a small drop of blood and wondered why.  I use the Accu-Check Softclix and love it; a depth of 2 is enough and it’s very comfortable.  Pricking the side of my finger works infinitely better than the pad, and with 10 finger-sides (I tend to only stick my left hand) to choose from, I don’t get very sore.  

: Hi Polly : In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers : and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger : towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t : feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use : my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. : How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? : — : Tony Polson

Response:

Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click.

How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson

Response:

Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. How many times do you use the lancet before replacing it with a new one? — Tony Polson

I don’t know about them, but I know that I change mine every month or so, without fail. — Dave – 9:13:18 PM T2 – 8/98 Glucophage, NPH, H –   Davors Daily Aphorism: If at first you don’t succeed, skydiving is not for you — Visit my HomePage:   http://dorcutt.homepage.com —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hi Polly In regards to the lancet I don’t have a problem anymore with sore fingers and I test 3 times a day.  I prick my finger on the side of the finger towards the nail.  I use hot soapy water before hand and I find that I don’t feel it so much afterwards there’s no residual pain.  I don’t actually use my lancet though I slide the needle in on my own and don’t use the click. But if you are comfortable with using the pen I say do so! — The Sarge (T2, Diaformin.  Sep2000  Canberra Australia) OzGirl – 10 This quote is only worth 5 points for which movie it comes from. "I ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I didn’t have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn’t come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! It wasn’t my fault, I swear to god!"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Group, I am still here – reading posts and learning – I tend to be a lurker.  I have a few questions that I hope y’all can help with: 1)  Is occasional blurred vision, coming on and then going right away with a couple blinks normal?  I don’t wear glasses and have always had 20/20 vision. 2)  Is a funny bubbly feeling in your nose normal? Not like passing out but fuzzy like. 3)  Is a consistant 140 to 190ish OK? 4)  What are the alternates to non carbing?  What have y’all found to be helpful? 5)  Does your fingertips ever get over the soreness from the lancet gun thingy? 6)  Did anyone ever experience mood swings from the meds? Here is a list of my meds: actos 45mg – 1 x a day starlix 120mg – 3 x a day synthroid 125mcg 2 x a day diovan (for bp) 1 x a day tylenol as needed for back pain Thanks in advance for your help, Polly

Response:

Hey Group, I am still here – reading posts and learning – I tend to be a lurker.  I have a few questions that I hope y’all can help with: 1)  Is occasional blurred vision, coming on and then going right away with a couple blinks normal?  I don’t wear glasses and have always had 20/20 vision. 2)  Is a funny bubbly feeling in your nose normal? Not like passing out but fuzzy like. 3)  Is a consistant 140 to 190ish OK? 4)  What are the alternates to non carbing?  What have y’all found to be helpful? 5)  Does your fingertips ever get over the soreness from the lancet gun thingy? 6)  Did anyone ever experience mood swings from the meds? Here is a list of my meds: actos 45mg – 1 x a day starlix 120mg – 3 x a day synthroid 125mcg 2 x a day diovan (for bp) 1 x a day tylenol as needed for back pain Thanks in advance for your help, Polly

Response:

When is the best time to get a second dog?

I like a minimum of 18 months between dogs to allow adequate training time for the first dog and get him past the stage around 15 months when they forget all that training Lynn K.

Response:

I’m basically interested in a fun, friendly family member who’s easy-going and likes to go on outings.  I’ve been thinking of the following breeds: Lab (of course) Golden Retriever Standard Poodle (though my husband says no, ’cause he thinks they look ridiculous)

Ridiculous? In the show clip, well, perhaps… but you don’t have to keep your dog in that trim! A well groomed standard poodle in the puppy or sport clip is simply stunning. Show him these pix – http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6784/portrait.html – lots of different poodles and only a few in the show clip – a couple of ‘em w/ducks in their mouth (that can’t be ridiculous, can it!?! ) Standards are cool dogs. Christy

Response:

Christy writes:

:Standards are cool dogs. I’ll say it now and I’ll say it loud and proud: I think Standard Poodles are DEFINITELY cool dogs. I’ve known a handful of nice purebred Standards and one of the most robustly energetic, slyly intelligent, exuberantly playful and surprisingly strong dogs I’ve ever known was at least half Standard Poodle, a dog that my uncle owned in the late 60s and 70s. Dorsey. Cool fella, for sure. JohnR Pit Bull Libertarian Never sneer at the power of a little pink squeaky toy!

Response:

most excellent poodle site!  There are several doing agility around here, and they’re great to watch. Emily (not ~Emily) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m basically interested in a fun, friendly family member who’s easy-going and likes to go on outings.  I’ve been thinking of the following breeds: Lab (of course) Golden Retriever Standard Poodle (though my husband says no, ’cause he thinks they look ridiculous) Ridiculous? In the show clip, well, perhaps… but you don’t have to keep your dog in that trim! A well groomed standard poodle in the puppy or sport clip is simply stunning. Show him these pix – http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6784/portrait.html – lots of different poodles and only a few in the show clip – a couple of ‘em w/ducks in their mouth (that can’t be ridiculous, can it!?! ) Standards are cool dogs. Christy

Before you buy.

Response:

I have a six month old chocolate lab.  I’m thinking about getting a second dog in 6 months to a year, so I’m starting to do a bit of research now on different breeds.  Have a few questions. When is the best time to get a second dog?  I’ve read that I should wait until Brody (my lab) is about a year old before I introduce a new dog into the household.  Is there an ideal time?   My husband and I are thinking about getting a second lab because we’ve had such a good experience with Brody (so far).  This would probably be the ideal choice, but I’d like to look into a few other breeds as well. I’d like to get a dog that would have roughly the same energy level as a well-exercised lab.  No couch-potatoes or little, low-energy dogs. I’d like a large dog that likes to run. We provide tonnes of play time, walk time, human interaction, etc…  I’d like a breed who loves people, loves other dogs, and likes water.  I’m not interested in a breed that’s too dominent (sp?) or too protective. I’m basically interested in a fun, friendly family member who’s easy-going and likes to go on outings.  I’ve been thinking of the following breeds: Lab (of course) Golden Retriever Standard Poodle (though my husband says no, ’cause he thinks they look ridiculous) Any input or ideas? — Karina  

Response:

When is the best time to get a second dog?

I like a minimum of 18 months between dogs to allow adequate training time for the first dog and get him past the stage around 15 months when they forget all that training Lynn K.

Response:

I’m basically interested in a fun, friendly family member who’s easy-going and likes to go on outings.  I’ve been thinking of the following breeds: Lab (of course) Golden Retriever Standard Poodle (though my husband says no, ’cause he thinks they look ridiculous)

Ridiculous? In the show clip, well, perhaps… but you don’t have to keep your dog in that trim! A well groomed standard poodle in the puppy or sport clip is simply stunning. Show him these pix – http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6784/portrait.html – lots of different poodles and only a few in the show clip – a couple of ‘em w/ducks in their mouth (that can’t be ridiculous, can it!?! ) Standards are cool dogs. Christy

Response:

Christy writes:

:Standards are cool dogs. I’ll say it now and I’ll say it loud and proud: I think Standard Poodles are DEFINITELY cool dogs. I’ve known a handful of nice purebred Standards and one of the most robustly energetic, slyly intelligent, exuberantly playful and surprisingly strong dogs I’ve ever known was at least half Standard Poodle, a dog that my uncle owned in the late 60s and 70s. Dorsey. Cool fella, for sure. JohnR Pit Bull Libertarian Never sneer at the power of a little pink squeaky toy!

Response:

most excellent poodle site!  There are several doing agility around here, and they’re great to watch. Emily (not ~Emily) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m basically interested in a fun, friendly family member who’s easy-going and likes to go on outings.  I’ve been thinking of the following breeds: Lab (of course) Golden Retriever Standard Poodle (though my husband says no, ’cause he thinks they look ridiculous) Ridiculous? In the show clip, well, perhaps… but you don’t have to keep your dog in that trim! A well groomed standard poodle in the puppy or sport clip is simply stunning. Show him these pix – http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6784/portrait.html – lots of different poodles and only a few in the show clip – a couple of ‘em w/ducks in their mouth (that can’t be ridiculous, can it!?! ) Standards are cool dogs. Christy

Before you buy.

Response:

I have a six month old chocolate lab.  I’m thinking about getting a second dog in 6 months to a year, so I’m starting to do a bit of research now on different breeds.  Have a few questions. When is the best time to get a second dog?  I’ve read that I should wait until Brody (my lab) is about a year old before I introduce a new dog into the household.  Is there an ideal time?   My husband and I are thinking about getting a second lab because we’ve had such a good experience with Brody (so far).  This would probably be the ideal choice, but I’d like to look into a few other breeds as well. I’d like to get a dog that would have roughly the same energy level as a well-exercised lab.  No couch-potatoes or little, low-energy dogs. I’d like a large dog that likes to run. We provide tonnes of play time, walk time, human interaction, etc…  I’d like a breed who loves people, loves other dogs, and likes water.  I’m not interested in a breed that’s too dominent (sp?) or too protective. I’m basically interested in a fun, friendly family member who’s easy-going and likes to go on outings.  I’ve been thinking of the following breeds: Lab (of course) Golden Retriever Standard Poodle (though my husband says no, ’cause he thinks they look ridiculous) Any input or ideas? — Karina  

Response:

I have a few questions: 1) I’ve read a lot about Bipolar Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder and I was wondering what the main difference between the two are since they appear to mimic one another in many ways. 2) Is Hypomania very closely related to a "normal" feeling?  Without being told would someone *really* know that they were hypomanic? 3)  If someone is claiming that they are going to become President just so that they can push ‘the red button to blow up the world’, would this be considered high thinking?   I know the last one sounds strange, but I would really appreciate any input on these questions.  Thank you very much!! ~DaVe~

Response:

I have a few questions:<snipped here and there 3)  If someone is claiming that they are going to become President just so that they can push ‘the red button to blow up the world’, would this be considered high thinking?

thinking, very delusional.  High or Manic thinking can reach this level in some individuals, and it is quite obvious to the casual observer that something is seriously amiss. Medical attentional is definitely needed. vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Please Help: My husband has had respiratory problems for months. No sense of smell and coughs. His work environment has the above moulds. His immune system seem compromised as every "bug" going around he seems to get. Where can he get information on diagnosing his condition, extent of damage and getting help? Desperate in Canada

x-posted to alt.support.asthma He should see a pulmonologist (chest doctor) for lung tests and diagnosis. He could have Occupational Asthma or some other lung condition like Aspergillosis.  He could also have rhintitis or sinusitis. Links: http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinGuide/AsthmaIM/comp1/AssessmentA.html Asthma Education: Interactive Guidelines: Component 1: Measures of Assessment and Diagnosis of Asthma Part A:  Initial Assessment and Diagnosis of Asthma Michael W. Peterson, M.D., Associate Professor of Medicine Excerpt: "Other conditions complicate asthma or its diagnosis (e.g.,  sinusitis, nasal polyps, aspergillosis, severe rhinitis,  vocal cord dysfunction, gastroesophageal reflux, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)." http://www.kumc.edu/instruction/medicine/pathology/ed/keywords/kw_asp… Aspergillosis http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/guide/guidelin/comp1/… General Guidelines for Referral to an Asthma Specialist Excerpt: "Criteria for the referral of an asthma patient have been developed (Spector and Nicklas 1995; Shuttari 1995). Based on the opinion of the Expert Panel, referral for consultation or care to a specialist in asthma care (usually, a fellowship-trained allergist or pulmonologist; occasionally, other physicians with expertise in asthma management developed through additional training and experience) is recommended when: Other conditions complicate asthma or its diagnosis (e.g., sinusitis, nasal polyps, aspergillosis, severe rhinitis, vocal cord dysfunction, gastroesophageal reflux, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)."

Question:

Hello, I have a 3 year old daughter with asthma.  It has been controlled by taking accolate every day (along with proventil) as a preventative.  I was wondering what the long term side effects of taking these medications are? Thank you for your help. -Chet

THere is no published data addressing that question.  Most of the clinical trials before the drug was approved for human use were of 6 month to a year duration.  "long term effects" tend to come out only once the drug is in clinical use — for example the eosinophilia that results in a very few severe asthmatics who rduce their steroids as a result of Accolate or Singulair effectiveness. Accolate is not specifially tested not approved for use in children and Singulair has only been approved for use in children 6 and above.   Both Accolate and Singulair are very specific Leukotriene D receptor antagonist. THat receptor is found primarily in the conducting airway and as of yet – no other critical function, likely to result in adverse effects, has been identified for that receptor. As a class of drugs, these leukotriene receptor antagonists are about as safe as anything on the market.  That doesnt mean that long term effects won’t show up.   Monitor your daugher (hopefully an asthma doc who prescribes outside of approved usage would do so anyway) monitor newsgroups like this.  On the positive side – there are data suggesting that people who have low levels of LTD receptors in their airway do not have any associated pathology.

Response:

Hello, I have a 3 year old daughter with asthma.  It has been controlled by taking accolate every day (along with proventil) as a preventative.  I was wondering what the long term side effects of taking these medications are? Thank you for your help. -Chet

Accolate is not approved for children under 12 tho the doctor can prescribe ‘off label’. A similar drug, Singulair, is available in a child’s dose (to age 6), 5 mg, once per day (adult dose is 10 mg). Use of Singulair would still be off label, but age 6 is a lot closer to 3 than age 12. Also the fact it only needs to be taken once/day and stomach doesn’t have to be empty, are additional advantages of Singulair. Note–Proventil is not considered a preventor drug, it’s a rescue drug for asthma exacerbations. The usual preventor drug first considered in children is Intal (cromolyn) administered either with nebulizer or MDI. Side effects are neglible for most. However since the Accolate seems to be working, I would ask your doctor for a change to the Singulair child’s dose. See www.singulair.com Prescribing info also available here. Accolate PI at http://www.accolateinfo.com/ or www.rxlist.com Ellis

Response:

Hello, I have a 3 year old daughter with asthma.  It has been controlled by taking accolate every day (along with proventil) as a preventative.  I was wondering what the long term side effects of taking these medications are? Thank you for your help. -Chet

Response:

Hello, I have a 3 year old daughter with asthma.  It has been controlled by taking accolate every day (along with proventil) as a preventative.  I was wondering what the long term side effects of taking these medications are? Thank you for your help.

No real long term effects known for either (however Accolate has only been around for 2 years). The daily use of a bronchodilator (Proventil) is no longer recommended.  There is evidence that overuse can build up a tolerance which results in the medication losing effectiveness. Another concern is that Accolate is not approved for children.  Nor is it intended for use as a sole asthma control medication.  Generally the anti leukotrines such as Accolate and Singulair are intended as a additive therapy. Your doctor appears to be prescribing an ‘off label’ therapy (using medications for things which they are not approved).  For small children there is frequently no other choice, but I wonder why you are not using a mast cell stabilizer (such as Intal) which is approved for small children. (Not a doctor, just an asthma patient.)

Response:

Question:

bet you even harbor doubts as to the benevolence of Steve Case or can it be …  Bill Gates ! Speaking of Bill Gates …….guess his Windows 98 isn’t ready for shipping yet

Of course not,,, We’re still in 1998 Harold – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Janine

Response:

It can sometimes be difficult to determine whether a treatment will be harmful and what the potential benefit of it might be. Each person is unique so they can respond to a treatment/remedy/medicine in a unique and sometimes unpredictable way. Each person’s situation is different and their risk tolerance is different. You don’t really know how something will affect you until you take it or try it on yourself. Yup.  But without some sort of safety testing, you are literally risking the unknown.

No matter how much safety study there is you still risk the unknown. A friend’s mother went for a CAT or MRI for a minor neck problem and came out of the machine dead. She’d had an allergic reaction to the dye. This is an unusual example but it illustrates the point…whether there are 5 studies or 500 hundred studies, conventional or unconventional, it ultimately comes down to: you go in, you pay your money, and you take your chance. You may be able to reduce the odds of harm and increase the odds of benefit, but you still never *know*. ..diane

Response:

No matter how much safety study there is you still risk the unknown. A friend’s mother went for a CAT or MRI for a minor neck problem and came out of the machine dead. She’d had an allergic reaction to the dye. This is an unusual example but it illustrates the point…whether there are 5 studies or 500 hundred studies, conventional or unconventional, it ultimately comes down to: you go in, you pay your money, and you take your chance. You may be able to reduce the odds of harm and increase the odds of benefit, but you still never *know*.

And if these things happen with things that have been tested for safety, what are the chances of similar problems with something that has had _no_ safety testing? Look at it this way, 99 out of 100 investigational pharmicuticals fail safety testing.  Think about what this implies regarding the safety of untested drugs.

Response:

I go in for a CAT scan and tell them beforehand I am asthma patient.  they use a different dye.   Shouldn’t all know to say and shouldn’t the doctor and/or service provider ask/tell?

Response:

And if these things happen with things that have been tested for safety, what are the chances of similar problems with something that has had _no_ safety testing?

Since acupuncture and other techniques related to traditional chinese medicine have been around for a couple of thousand years, in addition to recent evaluations, I think it is not accurate to say there is no safety information on them. In addition most of them are generally less invasive than many conventional techniques. Generally the more invasive the technique, the higher the risk is, depending on the situation. I gather that is one reason drs often try the less drastic measures that fit the situation first and see what the response is before trying the more drastic measures. Look at it this way, 99 out of 100 investigational pharmicuticals fail safety testing.  Think about what this implies regarding the safety of untested drugs.

If 99 out of 100 pharmaceuticals fail safety testing and some that pass have such questionable results (not to mention side-effects) that they are subsequently pulled from the market, I would tend to look into other ways to address my problems. I prefer to use as little medication as I can. Who knows what years of that stuff will do. Now that’s a safety issue! ..diane

Response:

Don’t the doctors take this very same, try it and see, approach? And are not people writing here about their emergency room visits and how they are still so My specialist said "Let’s try Accolate to see if it makes a difference" and in fact a trial period was used for each of my new meds.  Asthma is such a heterogeneous disease that it makes sense for a doctor to use the try it an see approach since what works for one individual may not work for another.

Well said Janine. Asthma is not ONE disease. It’s a group of symptoms including airway hyperreactivity, bronchconstriction, bronchospasm.  There are a variety of "causes" and precipitating events. It ranges from annoying to life-threatening. That’s the main reason for the "try this" approach. F’risntance: Accolate/Singulair/etc block binding of the potent broncho-constrictor leukotriene (LT)D to its receptor on airway smooth muscle. In about 1/4 to 1/3 of asthmatics – LTD is THE main precipitating factor in an an asthmatic attack – block it and you abolish the response.  In another similar percentage, LTD contributes to the severity of an attack. In the remainder, LTD plays almost no role – in fact some "non-responders" don’t even express the LTD receptor! SO why not test for LTD involvement before starting Accolate or Singulair? Well -because response to those drugs *IS* the most accurate, safest, easiest, most reliable test available. However – a "try this" approach, in the absence of a reasonable hypothesis about why a "treatment" might work is quackery.  No I’m not claiming all alternative medicine is quackery .. some nutritional approaches make a lot of sense as do ‘mental" approaches which reduce stress.  Stuff like "ozone generators" is pure crap and ignores medical evidence that even low levels of ozone can exacerbate asthmatic attacks. The bad news is there is not going to be a cure. There will only be drugs that I think that eventually there will be a cure for asthma, IMHO.

Sorry Janine – "eventually" will probably be a long time. IF by a cure you mean a single treatment or course of treatment that lets you live a normal life w/o further treatments.  IN medicine today, outside of antibiotics for infectins and some cancer therapies, there are damned few "cures" for chronic diseases.  THe hope for cures nowadays hangs on gene therapy — and somatic cell gene therapy, especially of airway diseases is among the most refractory targets for such an approach.  Since there probably isn’t one single gene for asthma, and even if there are a small number of such genes, none of them have been unequivocally identified yet, "eventually" is beyond predictablility. Even lung transplantation (sort of Herculean for all but the most life threatening cases) may not prove to be a cure, since it is still unclear where the disease originates: in the lungs or with the cellular immune system. create different effects. The good news is that you have it in your own power to positivly affect your condition for the better by what you can do for yourself.

Amen!

Response:

Don’t the doctors take this very same, try it and see, approach? And are not

No, they use a "try a theory, test it on animals first, then on healthy volunteers to see if it’s a placebo effect or a real help, *then* try it approach."  Most alternative remedies go right to the last step, hoping that if the treatment doesn’t work, the placebo effect will.  Read any of my (or Colin’s) other posts for a more detailed explanation. And when it doesn’t work, they try to find out why not, to keep from making the same mistakes twice. It’s not perfect, but it does help more people more often than any other approach, and that has been proven (medical journals exist to record the proof.) From what I read on the posts, the doctors don’t have a clue about what they prescribe.

*Some* doctors don’t…in which case the advice is to "get a better doctor." that particular drug to a cancer. A drug  may relieve your symptom but they all cause other effects in the body.

That’ *my* point.  Yes, they cause side effects but *AT LEAST WE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE* (some of the time).  This is better than an unknown chance of success with unknown side effects and unknown interactions (which we still have sometimes, but the odds are better.) Scott T."hat’s why my insurance co. will only pay for what has the best odds, and I like that…but my *life* insurance has to pay no matter why you died."

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Don’t the doctors take this very same, try it and see, approach? And are not people writing here about their emergency room visits and how they are still so ill? Please explain what is scientific about prescribing a bunch of drugs and – changing them all constantly.

But….  It’s SCIENCE ! ! !    Who are you to question it !    I’ll bet you even harbor doubts as to the benevolence of Steve Case or can it be …  Bill Gates ! Harold Spatz Got to wonder when a profession calls the activity of it’s business ….practice

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Well I figure I have presented several of the perspectives/issues I thought were important to address, in case some folks were interested and looking for the info, and Colin has responded with his apparently usual reponse to anything that differs from his view. Continuing this I feel will only rehash views and tend to get tiresome so I figure it is time to move on to other discussions. Thanks for your consideration…I hope the info was helpful to you. ..diane

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I’m certainly not advocating any treatments that do more harm than good. And how do you tell the difference?

It can sometimes be difficult to determine whether a treatment will be harmful and what the potential benefit of it might be. Each person is unique so they can respond to a treatment/remedy/medicine in a unique and sometimes unpredictable way. Each person’s situation is different and their risk tolerance is different. You don’t really know how something will affect you until you take it or try it on yourself. Personally, I usually try to get and review information on a treatment (conventional or unconventional) and use that to help me decide whether it might be something that I feel might be of benefit to me, what the risks might be, and whether it is something I am willing to try/do. ..diane

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I appreciate the tactful reply. I think this is the fundamental point of disagreement amoung group members (and the greater community at large:) Some people, such as yourself, have the approach that since we can’t know what will work in a given situation until it’s tried, we should put all the possibilities out there, and let them take the risks.  This is especially true for asthma, which has a wide variety of triggers, an unknown cause, and no known cure (unless one of the alternative treatments has a cure that modern medicine won’t accept). Do I have that correct?

I would include an evaluation of the risks and and possible benefits in any decision to try something. As asthma is something with no known cause or cure and some folks have had limited success with conventional treatments, they may feel comfortable looking into other options to find something that might work for them. Others, like myself, think that we can find what will probably work in a given situation, and what probably will do more harm than good, and it’s worth it to find out what’s what before we start trying things.

This is certainly your perogative. I have no problem with that. I think there is certainly room for both viewpoints. What I do have a problem with is being bashed for suggesting something different…the idea that unless something is blessed by the medical/scientific establishment it is worthless and anyone who thinks otherwise is a deluded fool. I consider myself a reasonably scientific-minded person [although I am not specifically in that field and it's been awhile since my science courses ] so I find the results of my personal "experiments" in trying things and seeing results on myself some compelling evidence that things work for me. I’m not just applying theory and speculation….although I am open to possibilites. I’ve been the conventional route and didn’t get too far…now I’m trying the unconventional one … and so far I have gotten further. I think my biggest concern is when someone spends *my* money on a treatment that won’t work for them.  And when my life insurance rates go up because someone dies from an unproven treatment (or failure to use one that usually will extend their lives), then it’s my money, and that bothers me.

Well that’s a different issue, and not one I care to get into. Also, for diseases that don’t have a cure, people are more likely to become desperate, and there are quacks that prey on this, and someone with a quack treatment has an economic incentive in the short term to lie about it (this is true for *every* type of medicine, mainstream and alternative, since it’s easy to fake data.)

Yes this is true and a reason to be cautious. I want people to use that desperation for more positive means, and so do you.  We just differ on what constitutes a more positive strategy. Unfortunately, I think that debate will continue until a proven cure is found.  The sole exception is when a treatment is scientifically proven to do more harm than good, when I can’t comfortably take the "try it, you might be one of the lucky ones"

approach. Well, I am not one of those who looks for "cures"…I am working on regaining my health. A different perspective on viewing things. I’m certainly not advocating any treatments that do more harm than good. ..diane

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I think my biggest concern is when someone spends *my* money on a treatment that won’t work for them.  And when my life insurance rates go up because someone dies from an unproven treatment (or failure to use one that usually will extend their lives), then it’s my money, and that bothers me.

Funny, but I’ve been thinking the same thing. My medical insurance paid my 3 hospitalizations in full for a grand total of $12000 and that was several years ago. And that doesn’t include all the meds and the emergency room. Today I cost them the price of a yearly checkup plus the bone-scan for the medication-induced osteoporosis. The vitamins, herbs, Chinese medicine I pay for myself. You must know some interesting insurance companies. So every time I read that someone on 6 different drugs, getting tests all the time and still winding up in emergency, but refusing to change their lifesyles as to excercise, junk food, cats, sugar, dairy, coffee, cocktails, etc.,  I realize why my health insurance rate is rising so fast. And why health insurance costs in general are way out of control. And I feel just like you do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Also, for diseases that don’t have a cure, people are more likely to become desperate, and there are quacks that prey on this, and someone with a quack treatment has an economic incentive in the short term to lie about it (this is true for *every* type of medicine, mainstream and alternative, since it’s easy to fake data.) I want people to use that desperation for more positive means, and so do you.  We just differ on what constitutes a more positive strategy. Unfortunately, I think that debate will continue until a proven cure is found.  The sole exception is when a treatment is scientifically proven to do more harm than good, when I can’t comfortably take the "try it, you might be one of the lucky ones" approach.

Don’t the doctors take this very same, try it and see, approach? And are not people writing here about their emergency room visits and how they are still so ill? Please explain what is scientific about prescribing a bunch of drugs and – changing them all constantly.  From what I read on the posts, the doctors don’t have a clue about what they prescribe. Most doctors get their ashma info from drug company brochures. Your doctors have many, many other illnesses to treat.  The treatment of asthma is not a good example of "medical science."   What is scientific and safe about taking drugs that claim " no one knows how they work or what the long-term effecst will be?"  What is scientific about recommending drugs that have only been tested for two years? And many of the tests are not on patients, they are on healthy people. You are the people who are testing them for the long-term effects. What is safe or scientific or well-tested about taking a brand new medication that has been shown (in scientific tests) to cause cancer in rats? It takes 15 to twenty years to develop cancer in humans, (although you don’t have to be exposed to any one agent for that amount of  time) and by that time no one will be able to connect that particular drug to a cancer. A drug  may relieve your symptom but they all cause other effects in the body.  The ones that don’t effect the symptom  are called "side-effects" But they are really part of what that drug does. The bad news is there is not going to be a cure. There will only be drugs that create different effects. The good news is that you have it in your own power to positivly affect your condition for the better by what you can do for yourself.

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I’m just presenting a different viewpoint…providing information on other options available. If folks don’t want to believe in something or try something, that is their perogative. But for those who are interested in more choices, more information, who would like to try things and see if something else might help them,

I think this is the fundamental point of disagreement amoung group members (and the greater community at large:) Some people, such as yourself, have the approach that since we can’t know what will work in a given situation until it’s tried, we should put all the possibilities out there, and let them take the risks.  This is especially true for asthma, which has a wide variety of triggers, an unknown cause, and no known cure (unless one of the alternative treatments has a cure that modern medicine won’t accept). Do I have that correct? Others, like myself, think that we can find what will probably work in a given situation, and what probably will do more harm than good, and it’s worth it to find out what’s what before we start trying things.  It’s especially important for diseases like asthma where you can "feel fine" but have serious underlying problems, and when some alternative treatments are actually just established treatments under a less controlled (and thus more dangerous) form. I think my biggest concern is when someone spends *my* money on a treatment that won’t work for them.  And when my life insurance rates go up because someone dies from an unproven treatment (or failure to use one that usually will extend their lives), then it’s my money, and that bothers me. Also, for diseases that don’t have a cure, people are more likely to become desperate, and there are quacks that prey on this, and someone with a quack treatment has an economic incentive in the short term to lie about it (this is true for *every* type of medicine, mainstream and alternative, since it’s easy to fake data.) I want people to use that desperation for more positive means, and so do you.  We just differ on what constitutes a more positive strategy.  Unfortunately, I think that debate will continue until a proven cure is found.  The sole exception is when a treatment is scientifically proven to do more harm than good, when I can’t comfortably take the "try it, you might be one of the lucky ones" approach. Scott T."hat’s why I’m going to try to be tactful until and unless someone tries to sell me something…"

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Diane, trying to talk Colin into an acceptence of ANYthing that doesnt agree with his point of view is a waste of time. Anyways, who really cares what one spoon-fed myopic thinks? Continue in your subject, and you’ll be branded a quack, a thief, ignorant, or worse…….The best use of your time is just to watch his posts and offer a balanced discussion when you see him trying to shove his point of view down someones throat.

lol..I’m not trying to get Colin to accept anything. I know (and have corresponded with) lots of folks who have tried various unconventional things and have noticed improvements. They usually don’t bother saying anything because of the flak they will encounter from others who not only disagree with/disbelieve them, but may even ridicule them. Who needs that? And who loses when folks are reticient to talk about what worked for them and present possible options? I think we all lose to some degree. Colin and others do bring up the important point to question things and look into the info and research on things to help make an considered decision. But it finally boils down to what each individual feels would be best for them, and what they are willing to do. I’m just presenting a different viewpoint…providing information on other options available. If folks don’t want to believe in something or try something, that is their perogative. But for those who are interested in more choices, more information, who would like to try things and see if something else might help them, I think it is important to present this type of information. Testimonials/personal anecdotes are not proof but they do offer some information. How many studies, tests and research has begun as a result of information gathered from testimonials? Isn’t the point of health newsgroups to share information and experiences…or is it just a place to slam opinions that are different from your own? As always these are my opinions and experiences and bits of information I have gathered. Use what you want and discard the rest. ..diane

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The problem is not with the theory, but with the proof of the theory, which is for most alternative medicine, "I used it, and I didn’t die, so maybe that will work for you."  I’d feel better if you could demonstrate "a thousand people chosen at random used this, and another thousand thought they were getting the same thing, and the first group did visibly better than the second group."  

I have some difficulty with the word proof. I feel it kind of fits into the catagory of words like all, never, cure. I think what can be shown is evidence in varying amounts to substantiate one hypothesis or another, realizing that there are unknown facts and factors which are likely involved. I think statistics are helpful to a degree…in that they give you some idea of what a given chance is. The underlying problem is that all folks are not alike so they don’t respond the same way to the same things. So how you can apply the statistics of treatment is limited by this uniqueness. It evenually boils down to trying it on yourself and seeing if it helps *you*. FWIW, I’ve never seen Colin ignore scientific evidence.  I’ve seen him ignore lots of things which people *claimed* were scientific evidence, but turned out not to be.

I think science is great, until it is worshiped like any other god. Then perspective and objectivity are lost and the conclusions become suspect. Scott T."here’s a critical difference between saying ’show me proof’ and being close-minded.  A close-minded person wouldn’t ask for proof, believing it to be either unattainable or self-evident; both are hallmarks of potentailly fatal dogmatism."

Closed-mindedness is a spectrum, like most things. One can ask for proof and still be close-minded since one can reject anything that disagrees with one’s view regardless of what is presented. ..diane

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Observation is only _one_ part of the scientific method. Observation is what allows you to make a hypothesis, the next step is to conduct an expirement to test the validity of that hypothesis.  For example, any hypothesis about human energy fields would require that you conduct an expirement to detect and measure these fields.  If you are unable to detect these fields then the hypothesis remains ‘unproven’.

Yes, experimentation is also involved. Trying a treatment and seeing what results you observe is one method of experimentation. It is probably the best kind of experiment to see whether a treatment will work for *you*. If your experiment is unable to detect human energy fields then you have not proven they exist. You have also not proven that they don’t exist. I doubt that the presence of human energy fields is the only hypothesis that remains unproven. One thing to remember is that just because a bunch of people who did not know better did something a long time ago, does not mean that it is a good idea.  Arsenic, mercury, lead, and a host of other poisons were used for medicinal purposes back in the days before scientific medicine.

Gee, I wonder what future medicine/science will say about chemotherapy? Many of those old remedies that folks found effective thru using them and observing the results are now the basis for modern medicines. Scientific medicine is not always right and "unscientific medicine" is not always wrong. Each must be evaluated for effectiveness in the appropriate situation. Another example of dangerous ‘acient’ remedies is the use of ‘Chinese herbs’ in the treatment of asthma.  This is such a problem that the FDA has proposed to regulate specific herbs in order to cut down on the number of people they kill each year (of course the quacks selling thses herbs still claim that ‘natural’ drugs are somehow safer than the identical synthetic drug).

It might be more appropriate to investigate just how ephedra (Ma Huang) and other herbs are used in chinese medicine before one goes making blanket statements…not to mention taking one example out of context and using it to castigate a whole system. It is of course important to evaluate whether a particular herb or technique is appropriate in each situation. The one-size-fits all technique of prescribing meds or herbs for conditions with the same "label" can often be inappropriate. Anything that is taken…med, herb or supplement can potentially cause unintended effects. The chances of unintended affects with supplements and herbs are generally less than with meds because they are for the most part less potent. Herbs usually have a more generalized effect as they are often prescribed in formulas. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The history of medicine and science is replete with examples of things (ie. germs, the earth being round, etc.) which folks had theorized as being valid or seen evidence of in clinical practice which could not be "proven" with the methods available at the time. So these concepts were thought to be invalid and quackery. Drs today cannot explain how anesthesia works but they realize it does and they use it. Just because something cannot be explained or tested by methods currently known today does not mean that it does not exist or is not valid. This seems a very short-sighted and unscientific view. Actually, the speherical nature of the earth was demonstrated mathmetically by the Greeks.  It was the non-scientists who rejected the notion. Allthough ‘germs’ were not detected until the invention of the microscope thier existance had been demonatrated scientifically.

Yes, and I am sure these views/hypotheses were accepted by all the scientists and medical people of the time…before there was scientific evidence of them. The scientific method assumes that there are ‘unknown’ facts.  The important thing is that a very clear distinction is made between what is known and what is speculated. Another thing to remember is that it is unsceintific to assume that something exists without actual evidence of its existance.

I am not assuming anything…I am open to the possibility that something which is difficult to measure may exist. I also don’t assume that because evidence to substantiate something can be been difficult to come by that it does not exist. The latter view seems to be pretty unscientific. It also seems that the above point about the assumption of there being unknown facts is often lost when conclusions are made, since things are often dismissed as non-existent based on only a limited amount of research. This is why the energy field stuff falls into the realm of folklore – it cannot be detected (niether directly nor indirectly) nor can its effects be reliably measured and predicted.  Thus the final conclusion is that: There is _no_ evidence that energy fields actually exist.

Whether something is considered folklore is a matter of opinion. It seems that human energy field stuff is difficult to measure and predict (perhaps because of those unknown facts that scientists assume exist), at least with our current methods. We’re also still not too swift at predicting the weather, in spite of all the study and instruments….some of those unknown facts influencing things again. There does seem to be some evidence which suggests the strong possibility (ie. effectiveness of acupuncture, etc) of the existence of human energy, and supporting the concepts of traditional chinese medicine (TCM). Further study in this area would be interesting, not to mention helpful, especially in its application to healing and wellness. ..diane

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Diane, trying to talk Colin into an acceptence of ANYthing that doesnt agree with his point of view is a waste of time. Anyways, who really cares what one spoon-fed myopic thinks? Continue in your subject, and you’ll be branded a quack, a thief, ignorant, or worse…….The best use of your time is just to watch his posts and offer a balanced discussion when you see him trying to shove his point of view down someones throat.

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TCM can sound kind of strange because we are not used to the concepts and viewing things from that perspective. Most of the terms used to define the concepts came as a result of observation (a key part of the scientific method) and explaining them in terms of nature…which most folks could easily relate to. The explanations were conceived hundreds if not thousands of years before modern scientific standards were developed. A side point is a number of things that we use today were invented or can be traced back to early developments in China, as they had a fairly well developed society going back a few thousand years. The development of a medical system that well-served millions of people for thousands of years (before the advent of modern medicine) is one example of a signficant accomplishment.

The problem with a lot of theories based on older ideas is that back in "the good old days" people died at an average age of 33.  That’s a "significant accomplishment", but not one I look forward to experienceing.  I tend to believe in anything which can be proven to extend my expected lifespan.  The problem is not with the theory, but with the proof of the theory, which is for most alternative medicine, "I used it, and I didn’t die, so maybe that will work for you."  I’d feel better if you could demonstrate "a thousand people chosen at random used this, and another thousand thought they were getting the same thing, and the first group did visibly better than the second group."  Theories without such facts are no better or worse than any other sort of wild guess.   I’m not saying *any* theory is mistaken, I *am* saying that gambling with your health is a lot more fun when you know the odds.  I have also often stated that the greatest tragedy of our current civilization, West and East, is that we don’t do a better job of testing treatments we don’t like, and accepting the results even when they don’t fit our theories.   FWIW, I’ve never seen Colin ignore scientific evidence.  I’ve seen him ignore lots of things which people *claimed* were scientific evidence, but turned out not to be. Scott T."here’s a critical difference between saying ’show me proof’ and being close-minded.  A close-minded person wouldn’t ask for proof, believing it to be either unattainable or self-evident; both are hallmarks of potentailly fatal dogmatism."

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Actually, TCM begins to look even more strange when the underlying "scientific principles" are looked at closely. Of course, they never do explain how they can determine the ‘energy properties’ of a food when these ‘properties’ cannot be measured.

TCM can sound kind of strange because we are not used to the concepts and viewing things from that perspective. Most of the terms used to define the concepts came as a result of observation (a key part of the scientific method) and explaining them in terms of nature…which most folks could easily relate to. The explanations were conceived hundreds if not thousands of years before modern scientific standards were developed. A side point is a number of things that we use today were invented or can be traced back to early developments in China, as they had a fairly well developed society going back a few thousand years. The development of a medical system that well-served millions of people for thousands of years (before the advent of modern medicine) is one example of a signficant accomplishment. The history of medicine and science is replete with examples of things (ie. germs, the earth being round, etc.) which folks had theorized as being valid or seen evidence of in clinical practice which could not be "proven" with the methods available at the time. So these concepts were thought to be invalid and quackery. Drs today cannot explain how anesthesia works but they realize it does and they use it. Just because something cannot be explained or tested by methods currently known today does not mean that it does not exist or is not valid. This seems a very short-sighted and unscientific view. So the energy properties of foods were likely compiled over a number of years based on observations of how people with different types of conditions responded to various foods. It is a bit like doing scientific experiments on yourself…I eat "such and such" a food and I notice it makes me feel better/worse or improves/worsens such and such a symptom. Because you cannot "scientifically" measure it and explain it does that mean that if you eat something that makes you worse that that experience is not valid? Allways be real sceptical of any medical treatment that relys on things that cannot be demonstrated to actually exist as the mechanism of action.

It is good to be skeptical of things, it is another thing to be close-minded. Science and medicine provide evidence and explanations/theories/hypotheses of how and why things act the way they do. Is this *proof* of how they *really* work? I don’t think so, as I don’t believe it is possible to know *all* factors that are involved. When you try to demonstrate that X exists, if the test you use does not demonstrate it, does that mean you have proved that X doesn’t exist? No. All it *proves* is that the *test you used* cannot demonstrate its existance. The rest is just an unscientific leap of judgement. As many studies will say, correlations or non-correlations may be demonstated but more studies/testing need be done. That is why you get conflicting studies and "experts" disagreeing when they look at the same results. ..diane

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Janine, regarding your foot cramps, are you on steroids? They deplete the body of minerals. When your electrolytes are out of balance, you get cramps. I don’t blame you for not wanting to take any more pills, but a good mineral supplement would really help. It usually clears them up right away. My allergist recommended. Patti – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If she is recommending ‘Bee Pollen’ without having you tested for pollen allergies (common for asthmatics) then she I asked her about this and she said to just take one grain of the pollen.  If nothing happened after 5 minutes then it would be ok to increase the dose. BTW, so far you have been to two people selling quackery. Maybe next time you may not be lucky, and wind up in the hospital (or worse)? Actually, the chiropractor seemed to be helping the tension in my back so I didn’t really consider him a quack.  The nutritionalist he recommended is affiliated with our local hospital so I was really taken back with her type of testing.  Furthermore, it didn’t seem to me like she really knew much about nutrition.  I have noticed that certain foods/food items help clear the congestion so I was curious if something I was eating was making my symptoms worse.  Fortunately, I took my time to digest what had occurred.  I am going to ask my specialist for a referral to a real nutritionalist.  I have problems with cramping of the feet and really don’t want to take supplements; I would rather increase what is missing or low in my diet by increasing a food containing that particular nutrient. The asthma medications are difficult not in their use but upto being diagnosed I was reluctant to take even so much as aspirin.  Suddenly, I’m bombarding my body with more medications than I would really like.  I would really like to hang this "nutritionalist" up to dry because I feel she misrepresented herself.  Her card, which I didn’t get until on the way out, indicated that she does "complete computerized body analysis of 21 systems". Had I got this card first, I would have walked away.  I am also not too happy with the chiropractor for recommending her; I cancelled my appointment this morning. Janine — Janine http://www.kent.net/~jvandenb

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In traditional chinese medicine (TCM) food is viewed as a therapy…it is considered part of herbal therapy. In TCM foods are selected based on their "energy" properties…that is, how the energy of the food effects your body’s energy. The whole concept seems kind of strange if you are not familiar with it. Food therapy has been an integral part of TCM for a few thousand years. The idea is to select foods that will help to balance your body. For example most dairy foods have a quality known as "dampness". So eating lots of dairy will increase the "dampness" in your body, and could result in an increase of symptoms associated with dampness….which include congestion, stuffiness, mucous, edema, excess weight, etc. In TCM, food therapy would recommend that you eat more foods that have a "drying" nature such as rye, kidney and other types of beans, etc. Another thing that would be recommended in cases of excess dampness is movement/exercise as it helps to "dry" the dampness. BTW most of the foods in the typical American diet (dairy, wheat, sugar, fats, etc) all increase "dampness"….which can increase the above "dampness" symptoms, especially weight. This is a very simplified example but it gives you the general idea. You can use food to help you heal. ..diane

This worked amazingly well for me when I was ill, and knowing how to use food like this has changed my life for the better. It may sound strange to Western ears but it beats a trip to the emergency room.

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I think you are being prudent. My experience with nutritionists over the years is that some have useful things to say ( although the diagnostic procedures you refer to are slightly suspect) but to take all with a grain of salt since they are in the business fo selling products.

That is sort of a broad generalization, wouldn’t you say? How can you take <only *your* experience with nutritionists and make a blanket statement like that? I agree that if they insist, or try to encourage you to buy the products they recommend *from them* is a huge red flag, but please, there is a huge percentage of people in this business who are honest, sincere and very professional. Sal Sessa http://www.eventsphto.com

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Dear Janine: It does sound like bad luck. It also sounds like she tested you with kineseology and if she really is good at it (a chiropractor who uses this method would be better) she should have given you a list of foods and other items you are allergic to. Maybe she was only testing to see if you were allergic to her products. What are her products? Vitamins, herbs or what? Are they anti-oxidents, multi-vitamins, what? How long are they supposed to last? Did she test to see if you were allergic to bee pollen? Does she know your whole history? Is that $404.20 Canadian or US money? Who manufactures these items? Your chiropractor must know about them if he recommended her. A vitamin program can be expensive but I’ve really never in my quest and different approaches I tried, laid out so much money at one time. Take them back and ask for a couple of samples first. You don’t know if you’ll be able to tolerate them. If she didn’t ask what you eat, I would be very suspicious. But maybe your chiropractor can explain. Cqn you ask to speak to some of her successes? Good luck, Shailami   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nutritionalist Bad Luck Hi all… I was seeing a chiropractor on the advice of a friend who said that a chiropractor had significantly helped her asthma.  However, I have found no relief of asthma symptoms although my back does feel better.  After 4 treatments, he suggested seeing a nutritionalist.  I met the nutritionalist last Thursday. This recommended "nutritionalist" was not exactly like what I expected and in fact my dietary practices never once entered the conversation. She hooked me up to electrodes on one hand and had me squeeze a stress ball in response to a very large check list.  After each squeeze she recorded a mark.  At the end of this testing she said there were 4 products she recommended that would allow me to get rid of my inhalers. Boy, bells and whistles started to go off!  She wanted to deliver out the products that night but I said I wanted to think about it.  The next morning (Good Friday) she called to say she could drop the products off that day but I told her again I wanted to think about it and she could drop off information on the products.   Later she called back to say she had gone over my numbers and had found a couple of other products that would guarantee not having to use the inhalers. She faxed me information on: Bee Pollen ($49.95), C-Curity ($39.95), ChloroPlasma ($45.95), Clear Pack ($39.95), Clearstart ($99.95), LifePath ($99.95) and Una de Gato ($28.50).  The total cost to get started was $404.20. I feel that this individual was just "preying" on me.  I would like to decrease my symptoms and amount of medication, however I don’t want to make things worse in the process.  Am I being overly cautious here?  Is there anyone on the list that has used these products and seen a decrease in their asthma symptoms? Janine — Janine http://www.kent.net/~jvandenb </PRE</HTML

Response:

items you are allergic to. Maybe she was only testing to see if you were allergic to her products.  She said she was testing body systems using the energy flow.  Some are herbal (ChloroPlasma, Clear Pack, Una de Gato), one is an anti-oxident(LifePath) and the bee pollen.  The C-Curity is a high dosage (605 mg) vitamine C; the Clearstart information says it removes parasites.  The price is for a month supply (quite costly).  She didn’t test for allergies nor did she ask about my diet.

When I read your first post, a "red flag" went up concerning her recommending all those expensive supplements. They may work for you but I would probably approach them with caution. I wasn’t there to see what the nutritionist did but I think it would have been good if she discussed your diet, and which foods you should or shouldn’t include in it. From what you describe she sounds more like a technician….matching you to what she offers. In traditional chinese medicine (TCM) food is viewed as a therapy…it is considered part of herbal therapy. In TCM foods are selected based on their "energy" properties…that is, how the energy of the food effects your body’s energy. The whole concept seems kind of strange if you are not familiar with it. Food therapy has been an integral part of TCM for a few thousand years. The idea is to select foods that will help to balance your body. For example most dairy foods have a quality known as "dampness". So eating lots of dairy will increase the "dampness" in your body, and could result in an increase of symptoms associated with dampness….which include congestion, stuffiness, mucous, edema, excess weight, etc. In TCM, food therapy would recommend that you eat more foods that have a "drying" nature such as rye, kidney and other types of beans, etc. Another thing that would be recommended in cases of excess dampness is movement/exercise as it helps to "dry" the dampness. BTW most of the foods in the typical American diet (dairy, wheat, sugar, fats, etc) all increase "dampness"….which can increase the above "dampness" symptoms, especially weight. This is a very simplified example but it gives you the general idea. You can use food to help you heal. ..diane

Response:

I think you are being prudent. My experience with nutritionsist over the years is that some have useful things to say ( although the diagnostic procedures you refer to are slightly suspect) but to take all with a grain of salt since they are in the business fo selling products. …I met the nutritionalist last Thursday. This recommended "nutritionalist" was not exactly like what I expected

and in fact my dietary practices never once entered the conversation. She hooked me up to electrodes on one hand and had me squeeze a stress ball in response to a very large check list.  After each squeeze she recorded a mark.  At the end of this testing she said there were 4 products she recommended that would allow me to get rid of my inhalers. Boy, bells and whistles started to go off!  She wanted to deliver out the products that night but I said I wanted to think about it.  The next morning (Good Friday) she called to say she could drop the products off that day but I told her again I wanted to think about it and she could

drop off information on the products.   Later she called back to say she had gone over my numbers and had found a couple of other products that would guarantee not having to use the inhalers. She faxed me information on: Bee Pollen ($49.95), C-Curity ($39.95), – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ChloroPlasma ($45.95), Clear Pack ($39.95), Clearstart ($99.95), LifePath ($99.95) and Una de Gato ($28.50).  The total cost to get started was $404.20. I feel that this individual was just "preying" on me.  I would like to decrease my symptoms and amount of medication, however I don’t want to make things worse in the process.  Am I being overly cautious here?  Is there anyone on the list that has used these products and seen a decrease in their asthma symptoms? Janine — Janine http://www.kent.net/~jvandenb

Response:

Question:

I just went on to Alphagan (and Timoptic) after Pilopine for 6 years began to give me problems.  My doctor says the symptoms, when occurring, will go away in one or two days when discontinuing.  He is a very good doctor associated with the Baylor Medical Center in Houston (one of the best/largest medical complexes in the world). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DP/EJ wrote:

I was on Alphagan for 6 months, with drop in IOP of 3-4, then became allergic to it: I had serious swelling around eyes and severe redness/itching of eyes. If you experience any problems, report them immediately. My doc said that he has seen several such reactions to Alphagan. But it apparently works well for most people. Good luck. DP

Response:

On 5 Feb 1998 18:21:51 GMT, halt…@aol.com (Halterb) wrote: ………..

That last statement is 100% correct. No it’s not a stress problem. At least not in my case.< This individual in an earlier post stated that he did, in fact, suffer from allergy

Are you saying that an involvement of allergy implies "stress" in the subjective sense.  That’s one of the more outstanding subcategories of destructive "medicine" under the overall distortive and patient-putdown general category of medically oriented stress doubletalk.  While some allergies, of course, affect nervous stamina, as do many other things, perhaps resulting in behavior under pressure that one might see as strained, the medical job is to cure or ameliorate the allergic effects, not to arrange things in the subject’s life that present pressure.  After all, one also finds much behavior that can be seen as the result of *insufficient* pressure. It’s highly doubtful that much general pressure *creates* allergies. What all of this boils down to is that people, medical or otherwise, who don’t want to go the trouble of digging into the nuts and bolts of an objective problem, just start shooting their mouths off about

STR<E<S<S<<< to gain some kind of stance of importance. –and his long list of medications reads like a pharmaceutical catalog.

Well, I think such a long list is often treacherous.  I don’t recall what he used.

Further, his negative sarcasm, instead of offering information helpful to others,

Any means of putting a muzzle on an appreciable part of your nonsense is a constructive antidote whatever confusion it may cause.

might be what one would expect from a person under various forms of stress.

Your not going to make yourself very popular around here by playing amateur shrink-at-a-distance, I guess you know.

My original post was carefully worded to make it clear that the impact of allergy in general was something that people may want to consider.

Nothing wrong with that.  May or may not be true in a given case. Obvious that most eye people don’t want to get into the causal or modifying impact of such effects on conditions like glaucoma. However, you don’t provide any substantive material on that subject.

The non-professional disclaimer was a responsible way to advise readers that the comments were from a layman. However, the comments were not spontaneous, but resulted from a good deal of reading of professional materials (two references were quoted in my follow-up).

But your reading tends to slant toward semi-mystical, or at least, stuff that’s full of ellipses and irrational or unfounded associations.

In my experience, in an effort to resolve a situation, it has often been worthwhile to follow up on all clues that present themselves.

All clues?  You must have an infinite life.  A priority is necessary.

I am personally convinced that an investigation of any manifestation of allergy, and its etiology, is not something for a glaucoma patient or suspect to neglect.

I’ll go with that, except I haven’t seen much to follow up on (outside of the esoteric ramblings you read). Ray

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony R. Diller wrote:

Ray Bonar wrote: jdenn…@pobox.com (John W. Denning) wrote: I’ll first list what I’m on:-) Alphagan, TID Timoptic, BID Trusopt,  TID Xalatin,  once a day Acular,   QID I’m also suffering from allergies, and I think, almost sure it’s the Alphagan. I’ve been on every glaucomma medication made since Diamox. Dr. Robert Ritch responds that Alphagan is the most likely to cause an allergy. Trusopt causes a contact dermatitis of the lids. Timolol can sometimes cause an allergy, as can Xalatan.   I’d be interested to know what type of problems there are with xalatan. I just changed from optpranalol to xalatan and the difference is great. with the opti I had red itchy eyes and lousy sleep. After changing to xalatan I couldn’t beleive how much better I was sleeping and now my eyes seldom if ever give me trouble.

hi my name is fred swartz and i’ve been suffering from glaucoma in my right eye for about 2 years. i have a lens implant in my right eye and i’m almost ripe for an implant in my left eye. i was originally on timoptic and pilocarpine 2% for about 6 or 7 months but it stopped holding down the pressure. i was then switched to timoptic and pilo 4% and that worked for about 6 more months. my doctor then decided to try xalatan. i used it for 1 day and my eye turned into a cherry. i was allergic to it. my doctor then switched me to timoptic plus phospholine iodide plus trusopt(both eyes). this worked for about 6 months. however my right eye suddenly becamr very red and sore. my left eye also became a little red. my doctor at first thought i had a viral infection but after a week of suffering he came to the conclusion that i was suffering an allergic reation to the trusopt. i stopped the trusopt and within 1 oir 2 days my eyes cleared up. however the allergic reation affected my cornea and i now have blurred vision in my right eye. my doctor assures me that the blurring is not related to the glaucoma and that it will clear up in a few weeks. he has me using tear-plus during the day and lacrilube at night to keep my eyes moist. so far as the glaucoma he now has me on timoptic twice a day plus phospholine iodide twice a day and alphagan in both eyes twice a day. this recipe seems to be holding my pressure down. i hope that my experiences will help someone else.

Response:

In article <19980204005301.TAA03…@ladder02.news.aol.com

, halt…@aol.com

(Halterb) wrote:

 This thread has a common denominator, allergy (in this case to eye drops). A  number of other messages, over time, have mentioned allergy.  This may support the contention that glaucoma (as elevated pressure) is a  "stress disease."  (Not a professional submission)

That last statement is 100% correct. No it’s not a stress problem. At least not in my case. —  -JD-                          ) ) )                 jdenn…@pobox.com  John W Denning               ( ( (      http://www.pobox.com/~jdenning  Idaho Falls, ID               ) ) )                      (208)522-4413  JD’s UnderWater Photo Course – http://www.pobox.com/~jdenning/uwpc.html

Response:

Do you not mean ‘Alphagan’ (rather than alphagram).  I’be been prescribed ‘Betagan’ and it works nicely. -Mel

Response:

I’ll first list what I’m on:-) Alphagan, TID Timoptic, BID Trusopt,  TID Xalatin,  once a day Acular,   QID I’m also suffering from allergies, and I think, almost sure it’s the Alphagan. I’ve been on every glaucomma medication made since Diamox. —  -JD-                          ) ) )                 jdenn…@pobox.com  John W Denning               ( ( (      http://www.pobox.com/~jdenning  Idaho Falls, ID               ) ) )                      (208)522-4413  JD’s UnderWater Photo Course – http://www.pobox.com/~jdenning/uwpc.html

Response:

Jdjenning quoted a small portion of my post:

A  number of other messages, over time, have mentioned allergy.  This may support the contention that glaucoma (as elevated pressure) is a

"stress disease."

 (Not a professional submission)<

and for some reason chose to comment on only the parenthetical disclaimer, then exclude "stress" in his case:

That last statement is 100% correct. No it’s not a stress problem. At least not in my case.<

This individual in an earlier post stated that he did, in fact, suffer from allergy–and his long list of medications reads like a pharmaceutical catalog. Further, his negative sarcasm, instead of offering information helpful to others, might be what one would expect from a person under various forms of stress. My original post was carefully worded to make it clear that the impact of allergy in general was something that people may want to consider. The non-professional disclaimer was a responsible way to advise readers that the comments were from a layman. However, the comments were not spontaneous, but resulted from a good deal of reading of professional materials (two references were quoted in my follow-up). In my experience, in an effort to resolve a situation, it has often been worthwhile to follow up on all clues that present themselves. I am personally convinced that an investigation of any manifestation of allergy, and its etiology, is not something for a glaucoma patient or suspect to neglect. (Not a professional submission)

Response:

I was put on Alphagan last summer, and it has been helping.  I am also on many other medications for glaucoma. Good Luck, Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sid Whittemore wrote in message <6a9f8m$gs…@brie.direct.ca

… I have just been prescribed Alphagram to see if it would bring down the pressure in my eyes.  Has anyone had any success with this medication? Thanks. Faye

Response:

jdenn…@pobox.com (John W. Denning) wrote:

I’ll first list what I’m on:-) Alphagan, TID Timoptic, BID Trusopt,  TID Xalatin,  once a day Acular,   QID I’m also suffering from allergies, and I think, almost sure it’s the Alphagan. I’ve been on every glaucomma medication made since Diamox.

Dr. Robert Ritch responds that Alphagan is the most likely to cause an allergy. Trusopt causes a contact dermatitis of the lids. Timolol can sometimes cause an allergy, as can Xalatan.

Response:

Raych provided a multi-part response, including:

No matter how much reading you’ve done (mostly in the wrong places), it’s clear that you have no idea what you’re talking about when you throw out the term ’stress’,<

I have an idea what H. Selye is talking about in his book dealing with stress related conditions, "The Stress of Life", McGraw-Hill. Raych continues,

if so, what caused the "adrenal exhaustion", if you think that’s a good concept.  I take it you’ve measured adrenal glands and found them empty.<

E.M Josephson in "Glaucoma and Its Medical Treatment", Chedney Press, can explain adrenal exhaustion and its effects to you.

Response:

I was on Alphagan for 6 months, with drop in IOP of 3-4, then became allergic to it: I had serious swelling around eyes and severe redness/itching of eyes. If you experience any problems, report them immediately. My doc said that he has seen several such reactions to Alphagan. But it apparently works well for most people. Good luck. DP

Response:

On 4 Feb 1998 00:53:18 GMT, halt…@aol.com (Halterb) wrote:

This thread has a common denominator, allergy (in this case to eye drops). A number of other messages, over time, have mentioned allergy. This may support the contention that glaucoma (as elevated pressure) is a "stress disease."

Wow!  Like almost all the others who babble the word ’stress’, you certainly add some understanding here, now, don’t you?  

:-e  Touting

a category like "stress disease" really puts it over the top!  Isn’t medicine confounded enough already with terms that have nothing thoughtful beneath them?  No matter how much reading you’ve done (mostly in the wrong places), it’s clear that you have no idea what you’re talking about when you throw out the term ’stress’, which you do at regular intervals.

Some sources claim a person whose body is operating properly

Check with your nearest Big Brother smog-check station.

does not develop allergy when exposed to specific substances,

Well, I’m glad you said "some sources".  I’m sure they really are *some* sources.

that the allergy is a symptom of another problem,

Now, of course, you’ve checked that "another problem" couldn’t be a symptom of allergy, or both or neither the symptom of some third thing.  Or the third thing a symptom of allergy and the other problem. Or all of them a figment of the one doing the arm-chair analysis.  So nice that one can use a word like ’stress’; you don’t have to remember any chemical formula for it.

often related to "adrenal exhaustion";

How ofter compared to other causes?  And if so, what caused the "adrenal exhaustion", if you think that’s a good concept.  I take it you’ve measured adrenal glands and found them empty.

the swelling often accompanying allergy (in skin, etc., mucous membranes such as in the nose, sinuses, throat and even bronchial tubes or lungs, etc.)  is frequently explained as resulting from adrenal influenced sodium retention and other electrolyte imbalances,

Well, allergic swelling is usually "explained" in terms of mast cells.

in turn raising the question about the role of sodium/electrolyte activity in eye pressure.

But if the problem of eye pressure is serious, I doubt that the percentage of swelling do to this cause is significant.  What’s your evidence and what is "eye pressure", IOP?  Or swelling tissues of the eye?  Likely from quite different causes.

The presence of allergy in a glaucoma patient would seem to  be a clue suggesting the advisability of an  investigation of adrenal activity

Perhaps, but also a long list of other things.

and stress producting factors.

Like posts to NGs you don’t like?  Stress-producting factors are good for you.  Makes your hair stand on end so the cooties can run out.

Perhaps dealing with the allergy issue might be helpful in approaching the glaucoma.

I certainly have no problem with that.  But from that, all the rest certainly doesn’t follow.  And I’d sure want someone who understand immunological effects *objectively* to study the problem, not a purveyor of stress relief.

(Not a professional submission)

Not a medical type here, but one obviously not sold on self-styled, all-in-the-head-type "science". Ray  –  Did I forget to

SSTTRE<S<S< anything?  (I can feel my

head swelling already. ))))  )

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ray Bonar wrote:

jdenn…@pobox.com (John W. Denning) wrote: I’ll first list what I’m on:-) Alphagan, TID Timoptic, BID Trusopt,  TID Xalatin,  once a day Acular,   QID I’m also suffering from allergies, and I think, almost sure it’s the Alphagan. I’ve been on every glaucomma medication made since Diamox. Dr. Robert Ritch responds that Alphagan is the most likely to cause an allergy. Trusopt causes a contact dermatitis of the lids. Timolol can sometimes cause an allergy, as can Xalatan.

  I’d be interested to know what type of problems there are with xalatan. I just changed from optpranalol to xalatan and the difference is great. with the opti I had red itchy eyes and lousy sleep. After changing to xalatan I couldn’t beleive how much better I was sleeping and now my eyes seldom if ever give me trouble.

Response:

This thread has a common denominator, allergy (in this case to eye drops). A number of other messages, over time, have mentioned allergy. This may support the contention that glaucoma (as elevated pressure) is a "stress disease." Some sources claim a person whose body is operating properly does not develop allergy when exposed to specific substances, that the allergy is a symptom of another problem, often related to "adrenal exhaustion"; the swelling often accompanying allergy (in skin, etc., mucous membranes such as in the nose, sinuses, throat and even bronchial tubes or lungs, etc.)  is frequently explained as resulting from adrenal influenced sodium retention and other electrolyte imbalances, in turn raising the question about the role of sodium/electrolyte activity in eye pressure. The presence of allergy in a glaucoma patient would seem to  be a clue suggesting the advisability of an  investigation of adrenal activity and stress producting factors. Perhaps dealing with the allergy issue might be helpful in approaching the glaucoma. (Not a professional submission)

Response:

Alphagan is an alpha agonist which is very effective at lowering the IOP. Betagan is a betablocker which is also very effective. The similarity in their names is only related to the manufacturer, Allergan. The two medications are used both separately and together. David E. Silverstone, MD

Response:

If any other readers are like raych (doubtful), they may have made some assumptions which require a bit of clarification:

Are you saying that an involvement of allergy implies "stress" in the subjective sense.

First, I’M not saying, but passing on the conclusions of others. The prime understanding of allergy was on an OBJECTIVE basis. The prime understanding of STRESS was also objective. The assumption some readers may be making of the word "stress" seems to be emotional; the sort of stress in my original (and disproportionately controversial post) was physical (as enduring cold temperatures is a stress on the body, or heavy exertion, or tissue injury, or a disease process–whatever calls the body’s defense reaction system into action is a stress, and trouble results if that system is "exhausted" by the time it needs to deal with the current stress; this exhaustion process is often accompanied by fluid accumulations and sodium/potassium adrenal hormone imbalances.)) Now, certainly emotional stress can put an added strain on the body as well. (It is difficult for the asthma patient, for example, to not become somewhat emotional when he cannot breathe after exposure to to an allergen, and as raych implies, some physicians make the conclusion that certain conditions are emotional stress diseases rather than looking at the physical stresses.) Raych includes a note of wisdom about:

people, medical or otherwise, who don’t want to go the trouble of digging into the nuts and bolts of an objective problem

Exactly my point. There needs to be a great deal of digging. It’s a nasty job but someone’s got to do it, and I do it. Then there’s this spurious emission typical of raych’s posts:

Any means of putting a muzzle on an appreciable part of your nonsense…etc.

Can’t we keep it objective, and not get emotional? This keeps forcing me to point out that with my "nonsense" my pressure dropped from 46 to 16, no damage has been observed and uncorrected vision remains 20/20 or better. If this is nonsense, then we need more of it. Should the messenger who brings good news suffer the same fate as the one who brings bad? This is my final post in this thread. Bottom line: If you have glaucoma AND allergy, it may be advisable to consider what can be done to address the latter situation.

Response:

On 7 Feb 1998 18:26:59 GMT, halt…@aol.com (Halterb) wrote: ………..

the sort of stress in my original (and disproportionately controversial post) was physical (as enduring cold temperatures is a stress on the body, or heavy exertion, or tissue injury, or a disease process–whatever calls the body’s defense reaction system into action is a stress, and trouble results if that system is "exhausted" by the time it needs to deal with the current stress;

OK, so maybe that’s *objective*; however, it’s so nebulous as to be useless.  In those terms, you can call any environmental physical parameter a stress if it varies epsilon, or so many sigma, from the normal ideal for whatever variety of human you pick.  And in this, you can include infections, allergic reactions, traumata, etc. that are otherwise described as specific medical entities rather than "stress". And as for the resultant strain, what is "the body’s defense reaction system".  The body has all kinds of homeostatic mechanisms; that’s mostly what all it’s about.  So the bottom line is that *everything* is, by your wording, a "stress disease".  Yes, modeling things that was, allergy is a "stress" whatever, but so is every other malady. Thus you’re not saying anything at all, while using up a lot of hollow words to say it.

this exhaustion process is often accompanied by fluid accumulations and sodium/potassium adrenal hormone imbalances.))

And whatever else you want to throw in the bag.

Now, certainly emotional stress can put an added strain on the body as well.

One person’s stress is another’s excitement.  Again, you’re just babbling.

(It is difficult for the asthma patient, for example, to not become somewhat emotional when he cannot breathe after exposure to to an allergen, and as raych implies, some physicians make the conclusion that certain conditions are emotional stress diseases rather than looking at the physical stresses.)

………

Exactly my point. There needs to be a great deal of digging. It’s a nasty job but someone’s got to do it, and I do it.

You’re in a very poor position to do it.  You don’t have a reasonable scientific background and can’t stand back and look at the treadmills you get on.

Then there’s this spurious emission typical of raych’s posts: Any means of putting a muzzle on an appreciable part of your nonsense…etc. Can’t we keep it objective, and not get emotional? This keeps forcing me to point out that with my "nonsense" my pressure dropped from 46 to 16, no damage has been observed and uncorrected vision remains 20/20 or better. If this is nonsense, then we need more of it. Should the messenger who brings good news suffer the same fate as the one who brings bad?

You wish to kiss or kill the messenger, depending upon the favorability of his/her message?  Hmm.  And of course, we don’t need any studies on any of this, because *your* case proves whatever you talk about through all of time.

This is my final post in this thread. Bottom line: If you have glaucoma AND allergy, it may be advisable to consider what can be done to address the latter situation.

No complaint against that, but that only takes 21 words, and isn’t enlarged by bringing in "stress" or "the body’s defenses". Ray

Response:

In article <19980204005301.TAA03…@ladder02.news.aol.com

, halt…@aol.com

(Halterb) wrote:

 This thread has a common denominator, allergy (in this case to eye drops). A  number of other messages, over time, have mentioned allergy.  This may support the contention that glaucoma (as elevated pressure) is a  "stress disease."

OK let me quote a bit more. You first mention allergy of drops. Then you say how that allergy supports the contention that glaucoma is a stress disease. You don’t say that the allergy is the stress disease, you say that glaucoma is. What I replied was like ROFL. I didn’t and don’t take that idea serious one bit. How can my glaucoma be stress related? Do I suffer from stress? Sure I do. Hell I’d be a fool to say I never suffer from any stress. Who doesn’t have some stress in their life? Besides trying to impress everyone what is your point? Do you have a magic cure for glaucoma? If so sure I’d be interested, so would many others including the medical community. —  -JD-                          ) ) )                 jdenn…@pobox.com  John W Denning               ( ( (      http://www.pobox.com/~jdenning  Idaho Falls, ID               ) ) )                      (208)522-4413  JD’s UnderWater Photo Course – http://www.pobox.com/~jdenning/uwpc.html

Response:

In article <34CC0474.5FC3D…@pobox.com

, parame…@pobox.com says… I was on Alphagan for 6 months, with drop in IOP of 3-4, then became allergic to it: I had serious swelling around eyes and severe redness/itching of eyes. If you experience any problems, report them immediately. My doc said that he has seen several such reactions to Alphagan. But it apparently works well for most people. Good luck. DP

Thanks for information.  I find that my eyes are very tired and also it is affecting my vision.  Hope that this will clear up in a week. Faye

Response:

In article <19980207182600.NAA14…@ladder03.news.aol.com

, halt…@aol.com

(Halterb) wrote:

[...]

Can’t we keep it objective, and not get emotional? This keeps forcing me to point out that with my "nonsense" my pressure dropped from 46 to 16, no damage has been observed and uncorrected vision remains 20/20 or better. If this is nonsense, then we need more of it. Should the messenger who brings good news suffer the same fate as the one who brings bad?

— The results can also be explained by a broken tonometer. Anecdotal data is of substantially no value, especially in a group that is open to all people, including those who don’t know the difference between anecdotal data and controlled research results published in refereed journals. earle —                __             __/_            /_/_/              /_/_   earle               /_/   jones We want our Internet back!  Get rid of Spam.    See http://www.cauce.org

Response:

I was Alphagan for about 8 months and my IOP dropped from 19 to 14  which was great, but like a previous post here I developed an allergy to the medication (eyelid swelling and itching) so had to be taken off it.  I’m using Timolol now with similar results in pressure lowering with no noticeable side effects. Patti

Response:

I have just been prescribed Alphagram to see if it would bring down the pressure in my eyes.  Has anyone had any success with this medication? Thanks. Faye

Response:

On Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:37:47 -0500, "Fred Swartz of Laxton, Glass & Swartz" <fswa…@lgslaw.com

wrote:

…………..

hi my name is fred swartz and i’ve been suffering from glaucoma in my right eye for about 2 years. i have a lens implant in my right eye and i’m almost ripe for an implant in my left eye.

Do you think the glaucoma in the eye with the lens implant *resulted* from the implant or anything that went on in its installation?  What was the timing. Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -………

Response:

Question:

A friend who lives in Oregon (I live in California as she once did) applied for Blue Cross insurance and was immediately accepted.  She had been rejected by Kaiser because she has taken prozac and two kinds of tranquilizers over ten years for an emotional disorder.  She put it down on her form and Blue Cross asked for no additional information. So why did they want more with the asthma – I put down that I had never been hospitalized.  Does anyone know of insurance companies in the Bay Area – California that accept clients with asthma.

Apparently one of the concerns with asthma is the chance of misdiagnosis.  Shortness of breath can also be caused by other conditions which can have a significant impact on mortality rates. For instance, one asthma patient who applied for life insurance was asked to get a physical exam first for the specific purpose of ruling out "cardiac insufficiency" as being the underlying cause of the shortness of breath symptoms. — For info on receiving a FREE pager (or getting PAID to give away free pagers), a FREE 16.0 cpm calling card (non-prepaid), or earning money at home, visit:                 http://www.pobox.com/~dsparks/mmsm.html

Response:

My COBRA insurance will be ending at the end of January.  I applied last summer for Blue Cross insurance and was rejected because of the asthma.  Actually they want more information from my doctor and he has yet to send it in.  I have never been hospitalized and just have the meds.    The Blue Cross agent sent me a form for high risk clients and it was very expensive and seemed to have much less coverage. A friend who lives in Oregon (I live in California as she once did) applied for Blue Cross insurance and was immediately accepted.  She had been rejected by Kaiser because she has taken prozac and two kinds of tranquilizers over ten years for an emotional disorder.  She put it down on her form and Blue Cross asked for no additional information. So why did they want more with the asthma – I put down that I had never been hospitalized.  Does anyone know of insurance companies in the Bay Area – California that accept clients with asthma.

Response: