Question:

Must have missed the original post.  Thanks, J, for not clipping. Sounds like a well-designed project.  Glad to know about it. Thanks to the orginator of this info! "J" <nos…@nospam.inv

wrote in message

news:3EDBD8A5.3AF649D2@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Thanks to Kathi from another newsgroup Kathi wrote: Volume 17 | Issue 9 | 30 | May 5, 2003 A New Approach to Autoimmune Diseases Instead of studying disorders in isolation, some investigators are seeking common denominators among them | By Eugene Russo D.F. Dowd Nearly one hundred years ago, two German scientists introduced the concept of autoimmune disease;1 it didn’t catch on. Indeed, even the investigators themselves were skeptical. To most immunologists, the notion that people might develop immune reactions to their own bodies seemed counterintuitive, even preposterous. "People were very, very reluctant to accept the idea," says Noel Rose, director of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Autoimmune Disease Research and a long-time expert in the field. Then, in the 1950s, two experimental models validated the autoimmune disease concept: one for thyroiditis, spearheaded by Rose, and another for lupus. In recent years, researchers have applied these models to a variety of diseases and conditions; in fact, it might have become a bit too popular. "As often happens in science, the pendulum swung the other way," says Rose. "People began to think of every disease in the book as autoimmune." Autism, Alzheimer disease, even eating disorders are suggested candidates. Significant immune components could be present, but whether such diseases are caused by an attack on one’s cells and tissues remains unclear. To date, more than 80 clinically distinct autoimmune diseases have been identified, though there is no completely foolproof way to define what is autoimmune and what is not. The detective story gets murkier. Even commonly accepted autoimmune diseases may consist of subclasses of tens or hundreds of disorders that have their own specific genetic and environmental causes. Elucidating etiologies leading to better treatments likely will require the more precise categorization of this set of very complex diseases. But to discover different subclasses of autoimmune disease, researchers first need to find what, if any, genetic and environmental factors these disorders share. The search for common denominators, now underway, represents a major shift in research strategy. "The people who studied autoimmune disease generally studied their own disease and really had blinders on," says Kevin Becker, who runs the DNA array unit at the National Institute on Aging. "If it is true that there are these common genetic elements, then the people who study type-1 diabetes should talk to the people who study multiple sclerosis, who should talk to the people who study thyroiditis, and they should work in a cooperative way more than they do." FINDING COMMON GROUND The increased incidence of many autoimmune diseases appears to be on the rise, especially in industrialized nations. These disorders affect an estimated 5% to 8% of the US population, or 14 to 22 million people. Much improved recognition and diagnosis for some illnesses, along with a lack of epidemiological studies for others, however, makes the numbers hard to interpret. For example, data indicate increased incidence of type 1 diabetes and multiple sclerosis in the US.2 In January, the National Institutes of Health announced new priorities for more accurately determining incidence, prevalence, and severity of autoimmune diseases, for identifying the interaction among genetic and environmental factors, and for developing new clinical centers that encourage public-private partnerships. The plans include, for example, continued funding of immunology centers at institutions, and also the Immune Tolerance Network, a collaborative effort by more than 70 experts worldwide aimed at developing therapies to enhance disease tolerance. The recommendations also include continued work to uncover the commonalties among different autoimmune diseases. The first major effort in this regard came in 1998.2 A meta-analysis conducted by Becker and Jeffrey Trent, now president and scientific director of the Translational Genomics Research Institute, compared the genetic linkage results from 23 published autoimmune or immune-mediated disease genome-wide scans. Diseases examined included multiple sclerosis, Crohn disease, familial psoriasis, asthma, type-I diabetes, murine lupus, and rat inflammatory arthritis. They found 18 overlapping clusters of loci, suggesting that these autoimmune diseases could be governed by a set of common susceptibility genes. The results are merely suggestive, however. The overlapping regions are large, as in millions of base pairs. "All you know is that there are some genes within this large region that seem to be involved," says Peter Gregersen, director of the Center for Genomics and Human Genetics at the North Shore Long Island Jewish Research Institute. The presumption is that, for example, the gene families of juvenile diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis share regions because they share the same gene or genes in that region. But that presumption may be incorrect because the identified regions are so large. Thus far, confirming genetic linkages in autoimmune diseases has proven extremely difficult. The lone exception: the linking of Crohn disease to a region on chromosome 16 identified as nod2.4 Nevertheless, the Becker group’s findings have piqued interest among researchers. "The challenge now is to take these 10 or 20 regions that keep coming up again and again and get down to what genes are there," says Gregersen. The Multiple Autoimmune Disease Genetics Consortium (MADGC), funded by the NIH and led by Gregersen, will attempt to identify genes that several autoimmune diseases have in common. MADGC is collecting data on families whose members have several different autoimmune disease phenotypes. To qualify, a family must have at least two of the eight autoimmune diseases chosen for the study, namely rheumatoid arthritis, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus, multiple sclerosis, autoimmune thyroid disease (also called Graves or Hashimoto disease), type I diabetes, psoriasis, and inflammatory bowel disease (Crohn disease or ulcerative colitis). The family data, including cellular components, blood serum components, DNA samples, and anonymous clinical data, then will be released to interested researchers so they can, according to Gregersen, "examine these families for their favorite candidate or their favorite hypothesis about what may explain a familial aggregation." MADGC, formed in 1999, recently released data on their first 65 families comprising 300-400 individuals. The ultimate goal is to collect 400 families. The biggest challenge has been confirming the data before releasing it to the scientific community; diagnoses are rarely obvious or clear-cut. "Hopefully we’re getting enough diversity in these families that they’ll tell us something when we study them, but not so much diversity that every family’s unique and we have no statistical power to say anything," says Gregersen. "That’s the tradeoff." The short-term goal is identifying these subclasses based on genetic and environmental factors. Frederick Miller, chief of the Environmental Autoimmunity Group at the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, calls this motivating rationale the "elemental disorder hypothesis." Essentially, reads the hypothesis, diseases labeled as lupus or diabetes actually could represent dozens of diagnosable elemental disorders with unique clinical manifestations. The unique pathogenesis of each disorder comes about after the necessary and sufficient genetic and environmental risk factors have interacted. Miller likes to use a movie theater analogy: Genetic and environmental elements common to several autoimmune diseases allow entry into a "theater" of autoimmunity, and then other genetic risk factors and different environmental exposures "usher" them into different subcategories or different "seats" in that theater. GENETIC TO ENVIRONMENTAL Miller’s group recently started recruiting for a large-scale pedigree study; the intended focus is to isolate both genetic and environmental risk factors. They plan to enroll 400 pairs of twins and siblings, the latter having one sibling who is within four years of developing one of a group of autoimmune diseases–namely rheumatoid arthritis/juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, systemic sclerosis or myositis. Parents and other family members also will be enrolled for genetic analysis. By carefully following subjects for five years and taking detailed histories through mailings and office visits, researchers hope to get some idea of pertinent environmental factors, and which ones appear to be most relevant to which genetic profiles. Factors likely to be scrutinized include infectious and noninfectious agents, drugs, vaccines, food, dietary supplements, organic solvents, ultraviolet light, stress and stressful life events, and occupational exposures (see UV Radiation, Autoimmunity, and Questions Galore) to substances like silica. Ideally, Miller’s group will break down these autoimmune disorders into unique subsets with nearly

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Thanks to Kathi from another newsgroup – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kathi wrote:

Volume 17 | Issue 9 | 30 | May 5, 2003 A New Approach to Autoimmune Diseases Instead of studying disorders in isolation, some investigators are seeking common denominators among them | By Eugene Russo D.F. Dowd Nearly one hundred years ago, two German scientists introduced the concept of autoimmune disease;1 it didn’t catch on. Indeed, even the investigators themselves were skeptical. To most immunologists, the notion that people might develop immune reactions to their own bodies seemed counterintuitive, even preposterous. "People were very, very reluctant to accept the idea," says Noel Rose, director of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Autoimmune Disease Research and a long-time expert in the field. Then, in the 1950s, two experimental models validated the autoimmune disease concept: one for thyroiditis, spearheaded by Rose, and another for lupus. In recent years, researchers have applied these models to a variety of diseases and conditions; in fact, it might have become a bit too popular. "As often happens in science, the pendulum swung the other way," says Rose. "People began to think of every disease in the book as autoimmune." Autism, Alzheimer disease, even eating disorders are suggested candidates. Significant immune components could be present, but whether such diseases are caused by an attack on one’s cells and tissues remains unclear. To date, more than 80 clinically distinct autoimmune diseases have been identified, though there is no completely foolproof way to define what is autoimmune and what is not. The detective story gets murkier. Even commonly accepted autoimmune diseases may consist of subclasses of tens or hundreds of disorders that have their own specific genetic and environmental causes. Elucidating etiologies leading to better treatments likely will require the more precise categorization of this set of very complex diseases. But to discover different subclasses of autoimmune disease, researchers first need to find what, if any, genetic and environmental factors these disorders share. The search for common denominators, now underway, represents a major shift in research strategy. "The people who studied autoimmune disease generally studied their own disease and really had blinders on," says Kevin Becker, who runs the DNA array unit at the National Institute on Aging. "If it is true that there are these common genetic elements, then the people who study type-1 diabetes should talk to the people who study multiple sclerosis, who should talk to the people who study thyroiditis, and they should work in a cooperative way more than they do." FINDING COMMON GROUND The increased incidence of many autoimmune diseases appears to be on the rise, especially in industrialized nations. These disorders affect an estimated 5% to 8% of the US population, or 14 to 22 million people. Much improved recognition and diagnosis for some illnesses, along with a lack of epidemiological studies for others, however, makes the numbers hard to interpret. For example, data indicate increased incidence of type 1 diabetes and multiple sclerosis in the US.2 In January, the National Institutes of Health announced new priorities for more accurately determining incidence, prevalence, and severity of autoimmune diseases, for identifying the interaction among genetic and environmental factors, and for developing new clinical centers that encourage public-private partnerships. The plans include, for example, continued funding of immunology centers at institutions, and also the Immune Tolerance Network, a collaborative effort by more than 70 experts worldwide aimed at developing therapies to enhance disease tolerance. The recommendations also include continued work to uncover the commonalties among different autoimmune diseases. The first major effort in this regard came in 1998.2 A meta-analysis conducted by Becker and Jeffrey Trent, now president and scientific director of the Translational Genomics Research Institute, compared the genetic linkage results from 23 published autoimmune or immune-mediated disease genome-wide scans. Diseases examined included multiple sclerosis, Crohn disease, familial psoriasis, asthma, type-I diabetes, murine lupus, and rat inflammatory arthritis. They found 18 overlapping clusters of loci, suggesting that these autoimmune diseases could be governed by a set of common susceptibility genes. The results are merely suggestive, however. The overlapping regions are large, as in millions of base pairs. "All you know is that there are some genes within this large region that seem to be involved," says Peter Gregersen, director of the Center for Genomics and Human Genetics at the North Shore Long Island Jewish Research Institute. The presumption is that, for example, the gene families of juvenile diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis share regions because they share the same gene or genes in that region. But that presumption may be incorrect because the identified regions are so large. Thus far, confirming genetic linkages in autoimmune diseases has proven extremely difficult. The lone exception: the linking of Crohn disease to a region on chromosome 16 identified as nod2.4 Nevertheless, the Becker group’s findings have piqued interest among researchers. "The challenge now is to take these 10 or 20 regions that keep coming up again and again and get down to what genes are there," says Gregersen. The Multiple Autoimmune Disease Genetics Consortium (MADGC), funded by the NIH and led by Gregersen, will attempt to identify genes that several autoimmune diseases have in common. MADGC is collecting data on families whose members have several different autoimmune disease phenotypes. To qualify, a family must have at least two of the eight autoimmune diseases chosen for the study, namely rheumatoid arthritis, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus, multiple sclerosis, autoimmune thyroid disease (also called Graves or Hashimoto disease), type I diabetes, psoriasis, and inflammatory bowel disease (Crohn disease or ulcerative colitis). The family data, including cellular components, blood serum components, DNA samples, and anonymous clinical data, then will be released to interested researchers so they can, according to Gregersen, "examine these families for their favorite candidate or their favorite hypothesis about what may explain a familial aggregation." MADGC, formed in 1999, recently released data on their first 65 families comprising 300-400 individuals. The ultimate goal is to collect 400 families. The biggest challenge has been confirming the data before releasing it to the scientific community; diagnoses are rarely obvious or clear-cut. "Hopefully we’re getting enough diversity in these families that they’ll tell us something when we study them, but not so much diversity that every family’s unique and we have no statistical power to say anything," says Gregersen. "That’s the tradeoff." The short-term goal is identifying these subclasses based on genetic and environmental factors. Frederick Miller, chief of the Environmental Autoimmunity Group at the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, calls this motivating rationale the "elemental disorder hypothesis." Essentially, reads the hypothesis, diseases labeled as lupus or diabetes actually could represent dozens of diagnosable elemental disorders with unique clinical manifestations. The unique pathogenesis of each disorder comes about after the necessary and sufficient genetic and environmental risk factors have interacted. Miller likes to use a movie theater analogy: Genetic and environmental elements common to several autoimmune diseases allow entry into a "theater" of autoimmunity, and then other genetic risk factors and different environmental exposures "usher" them into different subcategories or different "seats" in that theater. GENETIC TO ENVIRONMENTAL Miller’s group recently started recruiting for a large-scale pedigree study; the intended focus is to isolate both genetic and environmental risk factors. They plan to enroll 400 pairs of twins and siblings, the latter having one sibling who is within four years of developing one of a group of autoimmune diseases–namely rheumatoid arthritis/juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, systemic sclerosis or myositis. Parents and other family members also will be enrolled for genetic analysis. By carefully following subjects for five years and taking detailed histories through mailings and office visits, researchers hope to get some idea of pertinent environmental factors, and which ones appear to be most relevant to which genetic profiles. Factors likely to be scrutinized include infectious and noninfectious agents, drugs, vaccines, food, dietary supplements, organic solvents, ultraviolet light, stress and stressful life events, and occupational exposures (see UV Radiation, Autoimmunity, and Questions Galore) to substances like silica. Ideally, Miller’s group will break down these autoimmune disorders into unique subsets with nearly identical genetic and environmental risk factors, so that highly specific treatments and/or preventative measures can be developed–it’s a move toward the much-anticipated era of individualized medicine. Current, more generalized treatments have mixed success; according to Gregersen, they typically work for about a third of patients, evoke partial responses for another third, and do absolutely nothing for the remainder. "It may be paradoxical that the environmental components will be easier to find once we understand the genetics," says Gregersen.

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Question:

SteveB, I’m =so= glad you posted!  It helped me tremendously!!  Since  it’s usually the newbies that post about how bad the craves are, I’m thinking I’m a bit out of step still having them daily at almost 3 months.  Glad to know I’m "normal".  Every day is a battle, with some days mostly skirmishes, but none really easy.  I keep wondering when I’ll go from a smoker who isn’t smoking to an ex-smoker.  Seems there’s a big difference. To top it off, it seems about the only thing I’ve gotten done is not smoking!  I have been exercising, but still not accomplishing much around here.  I =really= hate that because it makes me feel lazy. One thing that has helped is my new computer wall paper.  Our darling SIL fixed a wonderful picture of our precious grand daughter sitting on the floor and looking up with the caption "Please Mommo, don’t smoke."  that helps a =lot=.  She was/is one of my main motivations for quitting.  I want to live to see her grow up. Thanks again for posting. Blessings, Mommo 2M 3W 6D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was chatting with Jillybean the other day and I suddenly, out of the blue, felt like having a cigarette. No major drama…it came and it went. As I was on line at the time I mentioned it. She was surprised and said that I never talked about craving and smoking. That was it really. Except that she is not the only one to say that to me. Over the months it has also been said by Paula and Skyler…at different times. Sky once remarked that my apparent strength was helpful to her quit…which I guess was a nice thing to hear…Although I sometimes wonder if the *success* Sky and I are having is, in some perverse way, actually making it more difficult for Paula…..ho hum. Anyway…the truth, as always, is slightly different: My quit will hit five months in a matter of days now…then it’s full steam ahead for HOF. That is real achievement and I am proud of myself…. But not a day has gone by so far without me wanting a cigarette at some point!! In the early days and weeks, despite the NRT, I could have cheerfully destroyed half a pack in my furious haste to rip the cover off and get at just one whole cigarette! And even now…when the feeling hits… Things have settled down a bit since then. I got over the difficult trigger of driving (probably the toughest for me) and replaced the first cigarette of the day by reading and posting here instead. Equally habit-forming it seems lol. Now when I get craves they can be sharp, but they are soon gone. But they do still happen every day!! I do go thro large parts of the day, however, without ever thinking about smoking..sometimes nearly all the day. And the craves seem to have no discernible pattern or triggers. Food and coffee aren’t issues for example. They just wander in from time to time. I was thinking the other day about the prospect of an 8hr flight. A year ago the prospect would have filled me with dread….in the past it has gone something like this… My longest flight was just short of 4 hours….to Malta from London. After checking in I spent an hour or so exploring "air-side" looking for a quiet corner where I could have a cig. It appears that vast swathes of airport have terrorist style anti-smoking signs everywhere. So you look for one where you wont be caught and puff away furiously. Eventually you hear the tannoy announce the last call for the tossers who are still smoking and realise they mean you! Diving onto the aircraft thro a door that is half shut you make it to your seat. Phew! You are probably a bit smelly by now but that’s the wifes problem not yours…hehe Anyway, the flight itself passes relatively peacefully. No major craves…not even after that…thing…you got for dinner! Then you begin the descent to your destination and you start to think cigarette. The next ten minutes are a fucking nightmare. All you want is a cigarette and you swear that if the pilot has to *go around* you’ll be out of your seat and fucking kill him…bastard. Anyway he gets the message by telepathy and lands safely…he probably is a fellow addict…good man. After a stupidly long wait, the door opens. Heaven…its steps down to tarmac and not one of those stupid "finger" things that always feels like walking between railway carriages that used to scare you as a kid. As you leave the plane…your cigarette is lit before your foot restored and you can even smile at the stupid, pitying look the air hostess is giving you. It will be a few minutes before the bus leaves for the terminal and you can swap stories of major willpower with all the other poor bastards standing around smoking three cigarettes each. One thing of interest to me; that came out of remembering this, was that I had no craves at all while flying. I think I had my head around the idea that smoking wasn’t an option for the duration of the flight…and somehow it then didn’t bother me. And I feel a bit like that about my quit. I started this quit by accepting the idea that however bad it got…smoking wasn’t an option. From that point of view, it has been relatively easy. But craves? Yes…everyday  :-) steveb My quit is mine, and mine alone. If I fail I take full responsibility and will try again as soon as I can. But I thank now the many people who have contributed to this: 4 Months, 3 Weeks, 6 Days, 11 Happy, smoke-free hours, 3,729 cigarettes left feeling unloved and unwanted,

Question:

Correction – her lasix dose is 1/4 of a 12.5 mg tablet, twice a day.  It’s hard to split such a tiny pill into 4 pieces. Patti

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Marcus, I haven’t checked the newsgroup for a few weeks, and was just thinking of you and Jasper today.  My Missy (toy poodle, 8lbs, 9 yrs old) was coughing more than normal so I took her to the cardiologist today and he started her on a small dose of lasix. All this (gradual deterioration) is kind of scary to me, yet when I read about dogs on lasix, it sounds like it helps them a lot. Missy’s meds are:  Enalapril – 1.25 mg twice a day, Theophylline – 50 mg twice a day, and now lasix – 1/4 of a 6.5 mg tablet twice a day. Since the very first day that the doctor examined her, he said there was a slight crackling sound in her lungs, but not heart failure.  He said it was still very slight, and today’s x-ray showed a only very small amount of congestion. While she doesn’t cough continuously, she has days when she coughs every few minutes and other days when she coughs only 2 or 3 times during the whole day.  She sleeps soundly without any coughing. Something I think she’s setting me up!  If she sees me getting ready to go out somewhere and I tell her she’s not going, she coughs a lot.  If I relent and take her, she stops coughing!  This has happened several times. I know lasix is a diuretic, and am concerned about how often Missy will need to be let out.  Maybe I’ll start out with just one dose (1/4 tablet) and see how it affects her. I hope Jasper is getting the medication he needs and is doing better. Patti Buglady — Most helpful, thanks.  Yes, I may be overdosing.  One of your links mentions heart racing and sinus arrhythmia as adverse effects. This breed (and, apparently, some other short-nosed breeds, such as Shih-Tsus) are characterized by normal [heart] sinus arrhythmias,  so I am cutting back on Jasper’s dosage, and counting the hours till I can get him to the new vet, Thursday morning. Nicole — Thanks for your info on your pit bull and his treatment — makes me wonder even more strongly whether my dog is properly medicated. Say a little prayer for us…. Marcus

Response:

Hi, Marcus, I haven’t checked the newsgroup for a few weeks, and was just thinking of you and Jasper today.  My Missy (toy poodle, 8lbs, 9 yrs old) was coughing more than normal so I took her to the cardiologist today and he started her on a small dose of lasix. All this (gradual deterioration) is kind of scary to me, yet when I read about dogs on lasix, it sounds like it helps them a lot. Missy’s meds are:  Enalapril – 1.25 mg twice a day, Theophylline – 50 mg twice a day, and now lasix – 1/4 of a 6.5 mg tablet twice a day. Since the very first day that the doctor examined her, he said there was a slight crackling sound in her lungs, but not heart failure.  He said it was still very slight, and today’s x-ray showed a only very small amount of congestion. While she doesn’t cough continuously, she has days when she coughs every few minutes and other days when she coughs only 2 or 3 times during the whole day.  She sleeps soundly without any coughing. Something I think she’s setting me up!  If she sees me getting ready to go out somewhere and I tell her she’s not going, she coughs a lot.  If I relent and take her, she stops coughing!  This has happened several times. I know lasix is a diuretic, and am concerned about how often Missy will need to be let out.  Maybe I’ll start out with just one dose (1/4 tablet) and see how it affects her. I hope Jasper is getting the medication he needs and is doing better. Patti

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Buglady — Most helpful, thanks.  Yes, I may be overdosing.  One of your links mentions heart racing and sinus arrhythmia as adverse effects.  This breed (and, apparently, some other short-nosed breeds, such as Shih-Tsus) are characterized by normal [heart] sinus arrhythmias,  so I am cutting back on Jasper’s dosage, and counting the hours till I can get him to the new vet, Thursday morning. Nicole — Thanks for your info on your pit bull and his treatment — makes me wonder even more strongly whether my dog is properly medicated. Say a little prayer for us…. Marcus

Response:

No experience with Theophylline.  My pit bull has CHF… his murmor is 4/6. He takes 50mg Lasix q d (every day)and .125 digoxin bid (twice a day).  He’s doing well!  We don’t follow any special diet.  My vet would rather have him eat and take a high dose of Lasix.  If he’s having a really rough day, I give the Lasix bid. I lost a Redbone Coonhound 2 yrs ago to CHF.  It’s a horrible, nasty disease!!! Good luck!!! Nicole

Response:

I’d suspect that the Theophylline is nicely managing the asthma-type problem; it’s a broncho-dilator.  It is now easier to breathe!  This is also why it would reduce coughing in mitral valve prolapse.  More oxygen for less work.  I’d feel a lot better, too! Doseage?  I won’t even go there.  On so many medications, human adult doses are commonly required for dogs…. penicillins, valium, sulfas, and Benadryl is about half of the adult human dose for dogs the size of mine (just about 20 lbs). Jo Wolf

Response:

Buglady — Most helpful, thanks.  Yes, I may be overdosing.  One of your links mentions heart racing and sinus arrhythmia as adverse effects.  This breed (and, apparently, some other short-nosed breeds, such as Shih-Tsus) are characterized by normal [heart] sinus arrhythmias,  so I am cutting back on Jasper’s dosage, and counting the hours till I can get him to the new vet, Thursday morning. Nicole — Thanks for your info on your pit bull and his treatment — makes me wonder even more strongly whether my dog is properly medicated. Say a little prayer for us…. Marcus

Response:

No direct experience, but here’s a side effect and cross reaction for Theophylline in human medicine: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/theosr_ad.htm The only contraindications I saw on the overdosage/contraindication page was for seizures and peptic ulcers. I’d also check the dosages page – human adult doses are based on 150 pounds. VIN tossed in the towel on pet owners and their info is now at a new place: Theophylline: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=539&S=1&SourceID=52 Scroll WAYYYY down here to bottom – this diagnostic vet lab monitors Theophylline in blood and they say it only takes a day to get a steady state in blood:  http://www.upei.ca/~diagserv/cp.htm This site mentions it’s use in CHF due to mitral valve failure to ease coughing:  http://www.vetdot.com/coughmv.htm Heart meds:  http://www.vetinfo.com/dogmed.html#Heart disease, Cushing’s and Medication buglady take out the dog before replying – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I happened to have some Theophylline  200 mg. CR (long-lasting response) in my medicine chest.  Because someone else recently posted here on a cardio’s prescribing Theophylline  for her dog with CHF, and because I had nothing to lose, I tried Jasper on it. I gave him 100 mg. with his dinner and 100 mg. with his breakfast the following day

Response:

[CHF means Congestive Heart Failure, just in case someone is unfamiliar with the abbreviation.] My 9.5 y.o. adopted Lhasa, Jasper, is in early [?] stage congestive heart failure, with a failing mitral valve.  After a discouraging echocardiogram last April, he was put on cardio meds.  Dosage for this 18-pound dog is: enalapril 2.5 mg., one tablet at night, one-half tablet in a.m.; Lasix, one 12.5 mg. tablet in the a.m.  He is also on a salt-restricted diet. He has been doing — intermittently — so poorly over the past month or so, that several times I thought I would have to put him down. Complicating the diagnostic picture, however, have been (a) some kind of back or hip problem which was acute but now seems resolved; and (b) chronic, severe allergies to foods and inhalants. One of the reasons I thought I was going to have to put him down as of last week was two days of early morning asthmatic attacks followed by hours of utter misery.  He had never had any kind of asthmatic attack before (though I have noticed recently he now sometimes wheezes when I take him for rides in the car and have the air conditioning on). I happened to have some Theophylline  200 mg. CR (long-lasting response) in my medicine chest.  Because someone else recently posted here on a cardio’s prescribing Theophylline  for her dog with CHF, and because I had nothing to lose, I tried Jasper on it. I gave him 100 mg. with his dinner and 100 mg. with his breakfast the following day.  What an improvement!  The breathing problems disappeared, AND he returned to his old normal, happy self, capable of moderate activity, including leaping over a log or two in the woods. I’m maintaining him on this dose until I can get to see a very highly regarded vet here in Vermont who specializes in geriatric problems.  Our appointment is for Thursday, the 15th. Meanwhile, does anyone have any insight into the use of Theophylline  in this case?  And could it have any negative effects in accelerating the mitral valve failure? Thanks in advance, Marcus in Vermont

Response:

Question:

I just looked up OSA, and it’s Adult Obstructive Sleep Apnea. Maybe I have that too. My nose was broken when I was about 6 and it was never really fixed so I have a deviated septum. Plus I have some low grade asthma type allergy. I know sometimes I end up snoring, and I’ll sometimes wake up and my nasal passages are almost closed off. I’ve considered having surgery for my nose, but I never heard of this CPAP thing (I thought people were saying CRAP at first). Maybe I should try it. :::shrug::: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CPAP is the acronym for CONTINUOUS POSITIVE AIR PRESSURE.  It provides a ‘blast’ of air up your nose to prevent your airway from closing off when you’re asleep, allowing you to continue to breath.  I don’t know about you, but I’m fairly used to breathing, and I like air when I breath the same as I like food with my meals.  Having air blown up your nose sounds worse than it really is.  Once you get used to it (everyone who uses CPAP adjusts to it at a different pace) you’ll find you’ll wonder what you ever did without it. Chris Don mind me if I am stupid, but what is a CPAP machine. Thankyou! Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  

I don’t see why not. If OSA means not having a full nights sleep, or if it means not entering deep sleep, it should effect mood in a negative way.

Response:

CPAP is the acronym for CONTINUOUS POSITIVE AIR PRESSURE.  It provides a ‘blast’ of air up your nose to prevent your airway from closing off when you’re asleep, allowing you to continue to breath.  I don’t know about you, but I’m fairly used to breathing, and I like air when I breath the same as I like food with my meals.  Having air blown up your nose sounds worse than it really is.  Once you get used to it (everyone who uses CPAP adjusts to it at a different pace) you’ll find you’ll wonder what you ever did without it. Chris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don mind me if I am stupid, but what is a CPAP machine. Thankyou! Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  It’s the first i’ve heard of that.  i am depressive, i also have s.a.d. so it’s interesting to me that osa and depression might be tied in some way.  Thanks for the heads up and i will look into it more. fallout Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder? I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C- Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

Yes, OSA and depression seem to go hand in hand, though not 100% of the time.  I believe it has more to do with the fact that with OSA, you’re simply exhausted all the time, not getting proper rest, and that’s the link between OSA and depression. C-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  It’s the first i’ve heard of that.  i am depressive, i also have s.a.d. so it’s interesting to me that osa and depression might be tied in some way.  Thanks for the heads up and i will look into it more. fallout Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder?  I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C- Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  It’s the first i’ve heard of that.

The connection’s well established, though the actual mechanism’s unclear. My sleep doctor says that it’s easy to get depressed when you lack the ability to focus or the energy accomplish much of anything, but I’m intrigued by the fact that serotonin is produced during deep sleep. Apneas keep untreated OSA sufferers from spending much time in the deeper sleep stages. In any case, many of us were delighted to find that our depression lifted after we went on CPAP and started getting deep sleep again. Tom

Response:

Is anyone on Nortriptyline here,

Where? You cross posted this to 4 groups.

Response:

I don’t need sleep deprivation to be paranoid… Im good enough at that on a normal day. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shity actualy. Thankyou for the info. I ended up in the hospital I have bee getting reall parrioniod latley and will talk about it later on ICQ with you, I have to go for now though. Talk to ya later! A CPAP machine is a little air pump that forces air into you.  i quit breathing when i sleep so you wear a face mask that forces air into you so you don’t die.  Am i a mess or what? How ya doing Dave ? fallout Don mind me if I am stupid, but what is a CPAP machine. Thankyou! Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  It’s the first i’ve heard of that.  i am depressive, i also have s.a.d. so it’s interesting to me that osa and depression might be tied in some way.  Thanks for the heads up and i will look into it more. fallout Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder? I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C- Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

What is OCA?  I am on Nortriptyline for Depression and Generalized Anxiety Disorder… I still need to take Clonazepam (sp?) to get to sleep… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder?  I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C- Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

I have tried it but it made me a bit more tired.  I also tried elavil but the side affects on it were very bad for me. It depends what you are using the drug for and then how you feel on it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

Shity actualy. Thankyou for the info. I ended up in the hospital I have bee getting reall parrioniod latley and will talk about it later on ICQ with you, I have to go for now though. Talk to ya later!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A CPAP machine is a little air pump that forces air into you.  i quit breathing when i sleep so you wear a face mask that forces air into you so you don’t die.  Am i a mess or what? How ya doing Dave ? fallout Don mind me if I am stupid, but what is a CPAP machine. Thankyou! Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  It’s the first i’ve heard of that.  i am depressive, i also have s.a.d. so it’s interesting to me that osa and depression might be tied in some way.  Thanks for the heads up and i will look into it more. fallout Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder? I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

A CPAP machine is a little air pump that forces air into you.  i quit breathing when i sleep so you wear a face mask that forces air into you so you don’t die.  Am i a mess or what? How ya doing Dave ? fallout

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don mind me if I am stupid, but what is a CPAP machine. Thankyou! Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  It’s the first i’ve heard of that.  i am depressive, i also have s.a.d. so it’s interesting to me that osa and depression might be tied in some way.  Thanks for the heads up and i will look into it more. fallout Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder? I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C- Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

Don mind me if I am stupid, but what is a CPAP machine. Thankyou!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  It’s the first i’ve heard of that.  i am depressive, i also have s.a.d. so it’s interesting to me that osa and depression might be tied in some way.  Thanks for the heads up and i will look into it more. fallout Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder?  I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C- Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder?  I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

Hi Chris – i have OSA as well and also use a CPAP machine.  Is it true that OSA and depression usually go hand in hand ?  It’s the first i’ve heard of that.  i am depressive, i also have s.a.d. so it’s interesting to me that osa and depression might be tied in some way.  Thanks for the heads up and i will look into it more. fallout

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you taking Nortriptyline for depression or for a sleep disorder?  I had a personal physician (who I don’t see any more) give me Amariptyline, which is also a sedative, but in the dose he prescribe he was hoping it would treat my OSA (which is quite severe BTW).  It didn’t work, and now I’m on a CPAP machine. Nortriptyline is a mighty powerful medication for depression, with some nasty side affects.  Do you have OSA, and are you depressed? The two tend to go hand in hand. C- Is anyone on Nortriptyline here, and if so how do you like it?

Response:

Question:

Ultram is a novel pain medicine, meaning that it doesn’t work in any of the ways that most pain medicines do. For example, narcotics are intoxicating, nsaids reduce inflammation and acetaminophen is an anti-pyrattic (sp?). Usually, when you are allergic to a particular type, you are likely to have reactions to other meds of the same type — hence you may hear on the Celebrex commercials that you shouldn’t take it if you’ve had an asthma-type reaction to aspirin. (Celebrex and the other Cox-II inhibitors are still considered nsaids.) Since Ultram is totally different, it is not likely that you would have a reaction to the other types of commonly used pain meds. steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not worried about it at the moment. The ultram seems to be the only one I reacted to. It didn’t seem to be working for me either, so I don’t miss it.    Elizabeth Donno maybe one ofthe smarter folks can figure it out. Mike No, but I haven’t been on too many of them. Vicodin and Fioricet (sp?) haven’t caused problems. Haven’t been on Fioricet in years though. They gave me demurol in the hospital. No problems with that. Why?       Elizabeth Any other pain meds give you the same reaction? Mike very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

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Response:

I’m not worried about it at the moment. The ultram seems to be the only one I reacted to. It didn’t seem to be working for me either, so I don’t miss it.         Elizabeth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Donno maybe one ofthe smarter folks can figure it out. Mike No, but I haven’t been on too many of them. Vicodin and Fioricet (sp?) haven’t caused problems. Haven’t been on Fioricet in years though. They gave me demurol in the hospital. No problems with that. Why?       Elizabeth Any other pain meds give you the same reaction? Mike very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Donno maybe one ofthe smarter folks can figure it out. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, but I haven’t been on too many of them. Vicodin and Fioricet (sp?) haven’t caused problems. Haven’t been on Fioricet in years though. They gave me demurol in the hospital. No problems with that. Why?    Elizabeth Any other pain meds give you the same reaction? Mike very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

No, but I haven’t been on too many of them. Vicodin and Fioricet (sp?) haven’t caused problems. Haven’t been on Fioricet in years though. They gave me demurol in the hospital. No problems with that. Why?         Elizabeth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any other pain meds give you the same reaction? Mike very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

I have some now I have not had any sides with it.. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike I’ve uses Ultrum with no side effects at all and it helped.  UM MOM Susan Any other pain meds give you the same reaction? Mike very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Mike I’ve uses Ultrum with no side effects at all and it helped.  UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any other pain meds give you the same reaction? Mike very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Any other pain meds give you the same reaction? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

I haven’t tried sulpha antibiotics since. Not sure if I want to! OTOH it could have been the new bath powder I used that day. Haven’t used the other packet from them since then either. Maybe I’ll feel adventuresome soon.         Elizabeth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that’s the same reaction I have to Sulfa antibiotics.  : ) Reesie very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

that’s the same reaction I have to Sulfa antibiotics.  : ) Reesie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very fine rash What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

very fine rash – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)       Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Right after, but before she left the hospital where they did it.  Sorry for the confussion.  UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Deb, a person that used to come to this group went into respiratory arrest from this medication.  Everyone reacts or can react differently. UM MOM Susan DURING the infusion … or several days later? Respiratory distress is associated with the infusion reaction, so I’m a little confused. steve —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

Response:

I agree with you there.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah but that happened at the same time as the infusion. It also happened to a woman that was being infused while I was also being infused. There’s just no way you can go into respiratory arrest, allergically, so far removed in time from the stimulus. There are many different types of reactions and the kind that will kill you happen VERY quickly. Like people who are TRULY allergic to bee stings. No lag time there. Debs Deb, a person that used to come to this group went into respiratory arrest from this medication.  Everyone reacts or can react differently. UM MOM Susan That makes more sense to me Deb.  mgbio I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci

Response:

What was the reaction to the Ultram? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)    Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci

Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Hey Billy Goat! I had a negative reaction to ultram once! (either that or an allergic reaction to the bubble bath pack I added to the water around the same time I was on that med.) Still have 3 ultram and half a pack of bubble bath left. Your thoughts please? (p.s. i told everyone I knew I had a mild chicken pox infection. hahahaha)         Elizabeth I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun of a negative reation to a remicade infusion. Sorta pointing out in my own perverse way that there are many other things to consider……. ?     ;(? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci In the pamplet it says, "Some patients have had severe allergic reactions to Remicade.  These reactions can happen while you are getting your Remicade infusion or shortly afterwards.  The symptoms of an allergic reaction may include hives (red, raised, itchy patches of skin), difficulty breathing, chest      Some patients who have been taking Remicade have had allergic reactions 3 to 12 days after receiving their Remicade treatment.  The symptoms of this type of delayed reaction may include muscle or joint pain with fever or rash.  Tell Staci I was under the impression that the reactions that occurred later on were things like skin rashes. Debs Thanks Staci, So therefore it would have been possible for me to of had that reaction eight days after my infusion. Joe I have a Remicade brochure from the company and was reading it this morning. It says that it is possible to have an allergic reaction between 3-12 days. Staci

Response:

Further reading defines "an extended period without Remicade threatment" as being two to four years. Otherwise, all noted reactions occur DURING the infusion or within four hours following the infusion with only the exceptions of a lupus-like syndrome that occurred in 4 of the study participants (only 1 with CD), the noted risk of malignant tumors and the propensity for infections. steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hypersensitivity REMICADE has been associated with hypersensitivity reactions that vary in their time of onset. Most hypersensitivity reactions, which include urticaria, dyspnea, and/or hypotension, have occurred during or within 2 hours of infliximab infusion. However, in some cases, serum sickness-like reactions have been observed in Crohn

Question:

it was noticable before the levaquin

All of the following classes of meds can cause mood changes: – bronchodilators (stimulant side effects) – decongestants (stimulant side effects) – antihistamines (depressant side effects) – steroids (notorious for causing mood swings) The side effects are significantly less for the inhaler form than for the oral form.  But even the inhaler form can cause some side effect. (Some folks who use a bronchodilator inhaler at bedtime find it causes insomnia.) — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

that is true…but im just worried that he is depressed and im looking for a cause. My god, Lynn, what have you been doing all this time? Of course he’s depressed, and seriously so if he has lost interest in food. I think it might be well for _you_ to talk with a psychologist about your understanding of the effects of chronic debilitating illness in a young person trying to find himself in a difficult world.      Larry

Hello Larry and Lynn, I’m Frank from Germany and I do agree with you Larry. It IS not easy to stay high-spirited if you have an heavy chr. disease. I like the english word: "dis-ease". I do have a heavy lung disease now for 34 years (since my birth), need oxygen 24 hours a day, eat ciprobay since 6 months, do inhale with antibiotics and am scheduled to be transplanted in maybe 3 years. I stayed last year for 3 months in hospital and was very depressed afterwards. To me it was very much necessary to have ppl with whom I could share my fears and frustrations. Ppl like consultant, healer, psychotherapists, neurologist, the churches emergency-telephone (sometimes 3 times a day , my acupuncter doctor, my mother, Klaus ( www.klaus-lange-hamburg.de ), a variety of books on the topic, my physiotherapists (I have 2 of them) 4 times a week for an 1 hour – all these helped me to find back my good spirits, my personal power and to get into contact and accept also my bad moods, fears, depression, weakness etc. that are related with this disease (and that have power in a good sense too!). I – again in my life – found out / realized that to me it is not all this mentioned above, the weakness, the disease, etc. that is depressing me (I had moments of happyness while having a bad infection and felt sad and empty while beeing physically stable) – it is that I have expectations that I’m not able to fullfill that are depressing. Beeing chr. ill and wanting to be as somebody else – "the others – the healthy ones" – is very much frustrating. I’m not like the others, never have been and probably never will be. That can be sad and it is good to grief about this. But it can be also a relief, turn it around: "I don’t have to be like the others!" (I for example never will be able to work 8 hours a day in a office. What a luck Every day is a new adjustment of the personal expectaions and desires to reality. All the best – Frank (Hari Har Singh) All things are at peace with their own roles in the universe, and they laugh at human beings. The suffering of humans comes from desiring what they do not have and not cherishing what is at hand. — from the heart sutra

Response:

yes…i know this sounds like a lot of meds…my son has a disease called hyper IGE or job syndrome and the hallmark of the disease is recurrent infections. 80% of ppl with it, die from lung inections,and thats what my son has all the time (lung infections) His dr thinks that he needs everything hes taking…

I’m sorry to hear that. Here are some links on this disease: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001311.htm Hyperimmunoglobulin E syndrome Alternative names     Job syndrome; Hyper IgE syndrome Definition     A suspected genetic defect that results in the production of high levels of the antibody immunoglobulin (IgE), causing serious skin and lung infections as well as eczema. http://www.stepstn.com/cgi-win/nord.exe?proc=Redirect&type=rdb_sum&id… Job Syndrome  [National Organization for Rare Disorders, Inc.] "Job Syndrome is an immunodeficiency syndrome characterized by recurrent bacterial (staphylococcal) infections, particularly of the skin, and markedly elevated IgE [Immunoglobulin E] levels. Treatment consists of intermittent or continuous antibiotics. Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole is particularly effective. " For more information on Job Syndrome, please contact: http://www.primaryimmune.org http://www.niaid.nih.gov/ http://ipopi.org/ http://www.modimes.org http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct/gui/c/a1r/show/NCT00006150?order=1&JServ… Study of Clinical Features and Genetics of Hyperimmunoglobulin E Recurrent Infection (Job Syndrome) This study is currently recruiting patients. Sponsored by National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Ellis

Response:

it was noticable before the levaquin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you so much for your suggestion,but i already know that my son has sinisitis and rhinisitis…and ect ect…its all part of his disease. My main concern is that hes depressed and thats not like him…hes the most high spirited person i know…and now, all of sudden he acts like his life is so "boring" as he puts it. He will be seeing an ENT very soon (for nasal polyps) but hes got too much other stuff going on right now to be seeing yet another specialist. Not to mention that the insurance co fights me every step of the way on who he sees and what he takes. So his polyps arent a big priority right now. Im really pushing his dr to cut back on some of his meds (just for a while to try it out) but shes stubborn…You could answer one question for me..which of the meds that he takes contains the ingredient that you think might cause his moodiness?

Gee, many of the asthma-type meds we take can cause moodiness. Bronchodilators can have stimulant side-effects, which can cause a "letdown" feeling after the stimulant effect wears off.  (That’s worse for oral meds, but even the inhaled bronchodilators are stimulating to some people.) Oral steroids can cause mood swings. Even the quinolone class of antibiotics (Cipro and Levaquin) can have a stimulant side effect (which other classes of antibiotics don’t cause). But your son knows he’s chronically ill, and he also knows he’s not getting much better.  That alone would cause moodiness. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

Inhaled corticosteriods can have a systemic effect once you reach 250mcg.

This will differ depending on the drug. Also different people have varying sensitivities to the steroids effects so there will not be any discrete cut-off for any drug. It would be closer to say that at dose x you have a y chance of having side effects. — CBI, MD

Response:

 We tried singulair a few yrs back and it did nothing for him…but that was also a time when his asthma was badly out of control…i might mention it to her and see what she says. Also..the drug,prednisone, has never had any effect on him. I always hear how it helps other asthmatics but it never helped my son…when he had a bad attack the only thing that helped him was a trip to the er for  adrenilin shots.. (just one didnt do the trick) But ive got to do something because I, myself am getting depressed watching my son go through this.

Response:

–cut– Im really pushing his dr to cut back on some of his meds (just for a while to try it out) but shes stubborn…You could answer one question for me..which of the meds that he takes contains the ingredient that you think might cause his moodiness?

If the moodiness started when he went on Levaquin, that would be a logical suspect. See: http://www.levaquin.com/pi/index.htm PI can be downloaded in pdf format or http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/levoflox_wcp.htm levofloxacin [Levaquin] – Warnings and Precautions "WARNINGS THE SAFETY AND EFFICACY OF LEVOFLOXACIN IN CHILDREN, ADOLESCENTS (UNDER THE AGE OF 18 YEARS), PREGNANT WOMEN AND NURSING WOMEN HAVE NOT BEEN ESTABLISHED. (See PRECAUTIONS, Pediatric Use, Pregnancy, and Nursing Mothers.) Convulsions and toxic psychoses have been reported in patients receiving quinolonas, including levofloxacin. Quinolones may also cause increased intracranial pressure and central nervous system stimulation which may lead to tremors, restlessness, anxiety, lightheadedness, confusion, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, nightmares, insomnia, and rarely suicidal thoughts or acts. These reactions may occur following the first dose. If these reactions occur in patients receiving levofloxacin, the drug should be discontinued and appropriate measures instituted." The other drugs could be researched at www.rxlist.com or http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginformation.html Medline Drug Information Also you could check the PDR [Physicians Desk Reference] at the reference section of your local library, for the PI’s of the various drugs. Ellis

Response:

Inhaled corticosteriods can have a systemic effect once you reach 250mcg. Since your son is taking such a high dose of corticosteriod 500 mcg that it could be causing him to feel clinically depressed or just a little "down in the dumps." Has his doctor suggested Accolate or Singulair. Usually doctors add this so asthmatics can take less steriod. Prednisone and inhaled corticosteriods have been known to cause psychiatric symptoms such as depression or mania but disappear when meds are reajusted. I would talk to your son’s doctor and try to see if an antileukitriene like Singulair might help him and reduce his need for so much steriod. Dana

Response:

I dont want anyone to be discouraged from responding to my post…i read them all  and take bits of it from each response. Yes..my son has an illness that nobody can reallly relate to..but he does have severe asthma also and takes a lot of the same meds that many of you do. I come in here and post because this newsgroup is the closest i can come to having any kind of "support group". You just cant imagine how isolated i feel in this.Almost every disease out there has a support group or discussion group…but there is not one for what my son has nor can i find anyone whos even heard of it. My posts are usually asthma related ,and like i said…i read them all and dont totally discount any.  It also gives me good questions for the dr when i do get a chance to ask her. So please….dont be discouraged from responding,just because your not familiar with the disease…every little bit of information helps me in this fight to keep my son alive and well. Sincerely, LYNN

Response:

that is true…but im just worried that he is depressed and im looking for a cause.

Response:

Thank you so much for your suggestion,but i already know that my son has sinisitis and rhinisitis…and ect ect…its all part of his disease. My main concern is that hes depressed and thats not like him…hes the most high spirited person i know…and now, all of sudden he acts like his life is so "boring" as he puts it. He will be seeing an ENT very soon (for nasal polyps) but hes got too much other stuff going on right now to be seeing yet another specialist. Not to mention that the insurance co fights me every step of the way on who he sees and what he takes. So his polyps arent a big priority right now.   Im really pushing his dr to cut back on some of his meds (just for a while to try it out) but shes stubborn…You could answer one question for me..which of the meds that he takes contains the ingredient that you think might cause his moodiness?

Response:

that is true…but im just worried that he is depressed and im looking for a cause.

My god, Lynn, what have you been doing all this time? Of course he’s depressed, and seriously so if he has lost interest in food. I think it might be well for _you_ to talk with a psychologist about your understanding of the effects of chronic debilitating illness in a young person trying to find himself in a difficult world.      Larry

Response:

we switched for 2 reasons…1 being that the cipro didnt get rid of his ear infection and 2 being that he was very dizzy all the time while taking cipro.

If long courses of multiple antibiotics don’t get rid of an ear infection, then it’s time to see an otorhinolaryngologist (ear-nose-throat ENT specialist). My young cousin had very similar problems.  The ENT operated on him, and he’s been fine ever since. The ENT may also search for root underlying causes of the persistent ear infections.  One frequent cause, that is easily missed in children, is chronic sinusitis–infection spreading from a chronically infected sinus out to the inner ear. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Disclaimer:  As far as I am aware, the opinions expressed herein are not those of my employer.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yes…i know this sounds like a lot of meds…my son has a disease called hyper IGE or job syndrome and the hallmark of the disease is recurrent infections. 80% of ppl with it, die from lung inections,and thats what my son has all the time (lung infections) His dr thinks that he needs everything hes taking…i have asked her if we could cut down on some of it but she thinks the results could be fatal. We have switched from biaxin to cipro to levaquin because we cant get rid of his ear infection…it just wont go away. I am seriously concerned about his mental state now…hes just not himself hes even lost his appetite…what am i to do?… I have a suggestion:

I would submit, most respectfully, that there is no one on this group qualified to have _any_ opinion on the management of Job’s Syndrome. I think you should ask his doctor if she thinks a bit of psychological counseling might be in order for this young lad, as might be the case for any young person facing chronic illness.       Larry

Response:

I would submit, most respectfully, that there is no one on this group qualified to have _any_ opinion on the management of Job’s Syndrome.

I agree that this is an issue outside of the normal experience that will be shared here and many of the solutions likely to be proffered will not apply. — CBI, MD

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yes…i know this sounds like a lot of meds…my son has a disease called hyper IGE or job syndrome and the hallmark of the disease is recurrent infections. 80% of ppl with it, die from lung inections,and thats what my son has all the time (lung infections) His dr thinks that he needs everything hes taking…i have asked her if we could cut down on some of it but she thinks the results could be fatal. We have switched from biaxin to cipro to levaquin because we cant get rid of his ear infection…it just wont go away. I am seriously concerned about his mental state now…hes just not himself hes even lost his appetite…what am i to do?… I have a suggestion: I would submit, most respectfully, that there is no one on this group qualified to have _any_ opinion on the management of Job’s Syndrome. I think you should ask his doctor if she thinks a bit of psychological counseling might be in order for this young lad, as might be the case for any young person facing chronic illness.

You’re right. I stand corrected. My apologies to all. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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yes…i know this sounds like a lot of meds…my son has a disease called hyper IGE or job syndrome and the hallmark of the disease is recurrent infections. 80% of ppl with it, die from lung inections,and thats what my son has all the time (lung infections) His dr thinks that he needs everything hes taking…i have asked her if we could cut down on some of it but she thinks the results could be fatal. We have switched from biaxin to cipro to levaquin because we cant get rid of his ear infection…it just wont go away. I am seriously concerned about his mental state now…hes just not himself hes even lost his appetite…what am i to do?…I really believe in his dr..before we went to her his asthma was way out of control,he was sick all the time (she thinks it was because he had a lung infection all that time) and now he never has asthma problems…just NEW problems. Its very frustrating..i just want whats best for my son and for him to be comfortable,but it breaks my heart to see him feeling so "blue".

Response:

we switched for 2 reasons…1 being that the cipro didnt get rid of his ear infection and 2 being that he was very dizzy all the time while taking cipro.

Response:

yes…i know this sounds like a lot of meds…my son has a disease called hyper IGE or job syndrome and the hallmark of the disease is recurrent infections. 80% of ppl with it, die from lung inections,and thats what my son has all the time (lung infections) His dr thinks that he needs everything hes taking…i have asked her if we could cut down on some of it but she thinks the results could be fatal. We have switched from biaxin to cipro to levaquin because we cant get rid of his ear infection…it just wont go away. I am seriously concerned about his mental state now…hes just not himself hes even lost his appetite…what am i to do?…

I have a suggestion: In children, recurrent or persistent ear infections can be a symptom of chronic sinusitis.  If the sinuses are chronically infected, the infection can easily spread to the ear.  But sinusitis, especially in children, is frequently missed by doctors. I suggest you see an otorhinolaryngologist (ear-nose-throat ENT specialist)–and have your son evaluated for sinusitis and persistent ear problems.  The ENT may also find other ways to deal with the ear infection other than antibiotics.  For example, my young cousin had surgery for a persistent ear infection that antibiotics didn’t touch.  He’s been fine ever since.  If he hadn’t had the surgery, the ear infection wouldn’t have cleared, with any amount of antibiotics. — Steven D. Litvintchouk

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – does anyone have depression as a side affect to any of your asthma medications? My son (hes 12) is going through what i would call depression. He, all of a sudden, has a lack of intrest in things and he seems very tired a lot.When i ask him whats wrong he sais hes bored. This is SO not like him and i wonder if the "bored" feeling he has is depression. He takes advair 500/50 , zyrtec at night , claritin-D in the am , nasonex spray , and has to take antibiotics continuously. He was on 750mg of cipro 2x a day but we just switched to Levaquin 500mg 1x a day. Is there any chance any of this is causing depression? That’s a large dose of many drugs; inhaler steroids, antihistamines, decongestant, antibiotics continuously? Antihistamines can cause the mucus to thicken. Has Singulair been tried? Cipro and Levaquin are fluoroquinolones, usually not recommended for children under 18 because of bone development problems….

Cipro has many other bizarre side effects.  It’s one of the few antibiotics that causes central-nervous-system stimulation (nervousness, insomnia).  Cipro can lead to ruptured tendons (really weird).  Also reports of disorientation, hallucinations, neurological damage–the instructions I got for Cipro at my pharmacy told me to "report promptly any changes in your thinking [!!!]". Cipro is not a drug to be taken continuously–even by adults. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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does anyone have depression as a side affect to any of your asthma medications? My son (hes 12) is going through what i would call depression. He, all of a sudden, has a lack of intrest in things and he seems very tired a lot.When i ask him whats wrong he sais hes bored. This is SO not like him and i wonder if the "bored" feeling he has is depression. He takes advair 500/50 , zyrtec at night , claritin-D in the am , nasonex spray , and has to take antibiotics continuously. He was on 750mg of cipro 2x a day but we just switched to Levaquin 500mg 1x a day. Is there any chance any of this is causing depression?

Yes. Antihistamines can have a depressant effect.  (In fact, diphenhydramine is the active ingredient in both Benadryl and Sominex!  They just repackaged an antihistamine with depressant side-effect as a sleeping pill!) Decongestants can have a stimulant effect in adults, which is known to have the OPPOSITE effect (sedation) in children. Interestingly, Cipro (an antibiotic) is also known to have a stimulant side effect in adults (unusual for an antibiotic).  Some folks get insomnia on Cipro. So yes, your child’s central nervous system is getting some hits from these meds. I don’t know why you switched from Cipro to Levaquin; they’re cousins in the same class. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

does anyone have depression as a side affect to any of your asthma medications? My son (hes 12) is going through what i would call depression. He, all of a sudden, has a lack of intrest in things and he seems very tired a lot.When i ask him whats wrong he sais hes bored. This is SO not like him and i wonder if the "bored" feeling he has is depression. He takes advair 500/50 , zyrtec at night , claritin-D in the am , nasonex spray , and has to take antibiotics continuously. He was on 750mg of cipro 2x a day but we just switched to Levaquin 500mg 1x a day. Is there any chance any of this is causing depression?

That’s a large dose of many drugs; inhaler steroids, antihistamines, decongestant, antibiotics continuously? Antihistamines can cause the mucus to thicken. Has Singulair been tried? Cipro and Levaquin are fluoroquinolones, usually not recommended for children under 18 because of bone development problems. see: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/fluoroquinolonessystemic2… Fluoroquinolones (Systemic) Cipro     [Ciprofloxacin] Levaquin  [Levofloxacin] Before Using This Medicine In deciding to use a medicine, the risks of taking the medicine must be weighed against the good it will do. This is a decision you and your doctor will make. For the fluoroquinolones, the following should be considered: Adolescents–Use is not recommended for teenagers younger than 18 years of age since fluoroquinolones have been shown to cause bone development problems in young animals. However, your doctor may choose to use one of these medicines if other medicines cannot be used. Unusual tiredness is listed as a rare side effect. He is using the strongest dose of Advair [500/50] plus another steroid Nasonex. The combined effect of the 2 steroids could be causing growth problems, and possibly other. Stadiometry measurements should be taken regularly. http://www.docguide.com/dg.nsf/PrintPrint/5369BAB5D540E3F88525683B005… "Controlled clinical studies have shown intranasal corticosteroids  may cause a reduction in growth velocity in pediatric patients.  The growth of pediatric patients receiving intranasal  corticosteroids, including Nasonex, should be monitored routinely (e.g., by stadiometry)." Side effects of the other drugs can be seen at http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginformation.html Medline Drug Information Maybe get a 2nd opinion on his treatment. National Jewish Center in Denver is a good place to go for difficult cases of lung disease. Ellis

Response:

does anyone have depression as a side affect to any of your asthma medications? My son (hes 12) is going through what i would call depression. He, all of a sudden, has a lack of intrest in things and he seems very tired a lot.When i ask him whats wrong he sais hes bored. This is SO not like him and i wonder if the "bored" feeling he has is depression. He takes advair 500/50 , zyrtec at night , claritin-D in the am , nasonex spray , and has to take antibiotics continuously. He was on 750mg of cipro 2x a day but we just switched to Levaquin 500mg 1x a day. Is there any chance any of this is causing depression?

Response:

If it is depression, or depression-like, or unusual fatigue, I think the most likely culprits would be the antihistamines. Pierre

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – does anyone have depression as a side affect to any of your asthma medications? My son (hes 12) is going through what i would call depression. He, all of a sudden, has a lack of intrest in things and he seems very tired a lot.When i ask him whats wrong he sais hes bored. This is SO not like him and i wonder if the "bored" feeling he has is depression. He takes advair 500/50 , zyrtec at night , claritin-D in the am , nasonex spray , and has to take antibiotics continuously. He was on 750mg of cipro 2x a day but we just switched to Levaquin 500mg 1x a day. Is there any chance any of this is causing depression?

Response:

Question:

Thanks for all the interesting input. I’ve heard the "no sinus – migraine" argument more times than I can count. I too am quite sure that the headaches are migraine not sinusitis.   The symptoms are just too close to pure textbook migraine. But what I was trying saying (poorly) is that I think one of my big-bad triggers has something to do with the sinuses. I cannot stop a headache with sinus or allergy cures. But, I can get a teeny bit of relief when I carefully manage what is happening in the sinuses. And any relief, no matter how small, is worth something! I guess what is very frustrating is that I have never (ever) been able to get a doctor to agree with me that there may be a trigger point related to my schnoz. But _I_ just know there is a relation somehow. I would like to try some king-kong allergy/asthma type of meds for a month or so just as an experiment just to see what happens. But I can’t find a doctor to humor me and write the scripts. Which unfortunately leaves me with Granddad’s home remedy and other OTC approaches which aren’t very effective or exactly the best idea for a migrainee. (is that a word?) — Spaceman Spiff

Response:

Sharon you said your balls hurt….BEG Ronnie An Antique  *Girl*

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey Spiff, I like icy hot too for the same reasons…i just rub it on my temples and a dab on the back of my neck …i also like the smell of it…it helps to ease my migraines a bit too. Chris

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It has been some time since the Neurologist told me this so I hope I get it right.  He said that the medication "over counter" helped the migraines, because there was  something in them that would also help a migraine.  At that time, when I got one, I ended up in bed for 3 days each migraine in agonizing pain and taking more of the over the counter stuff than I should have.  Now with proper medication, the migraines rarely last over 24 hours, generally not that long.  They aren’t near as bad as before either.  This has been my experience with what I thought were sinus headaches. Sharon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for all the interesting input. I’ve heard the "no sinus – migraine" argument more times than I can count. I too am quite sure that the headaches are migraine not sinusitis. The symptoms are just too close to pure textbook migraine. But what I was trying saying (poorly) is that I think one of my big-bad triggers has something to do with the sinuses. I cannot stop a headache with sinus or allergy cures. But, I can get a teeny bit of relief when I carefully manage what is happening in the sinuses. And any relief, no matter how small, is worth something! I guess what is very frustrating is that I have never (ever) been able to get a doctor to agree with me that there may be a trigger point related to my schnoz. But _I_ just know there is a relation somehow. I would like to try some king-kong allergy/asthma type of meds for a month or so just as an experiment just to see what happens. But I can’t find a doctor to humor me and write the scripts. Which unfortunately leaves me with Granddad’s home remedy and other OTC approaches which aren’t very effective or exactly the best idea for a migrainee. (is that a word?) — Spaceman Spiff

Response:

Spiff,  In 51 years alot of sinus headaches have rolled over into migraines. There is even a bite out of our kitchen sink…. Ronnie An Antique *Girl*

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for all the interesting input. I’ve heard the "no sinus – migraine" argument more times than I can count. I too am quite sure that the headaches are migraine not sinusitis. The symptoms are just too close to pure textbook migraine. But what I was trying saying (poorly) is that I think one of my big-bad triggers has something to do with the sinuses. I cannot stop a headache with sinus or allergy cures. But, I can get a teeny bit of relief when I carefully manage what is happening in the sinuses. And any relief, no matter how small, is worth something! I guess what is very frustrating is that I have never (ever) been able to get a doctor to agree with me that there may be a trigger point related to my schnoz. But _I_ just know there is a relation somehow. I would like to try some king-kong allergy/asthma type of meds for a month or so just as an experiment just to see what happens. But I can’t find a doctor to humor me and write the scripts. Which unfortunately leaves me with Granddad’s home remedy and other OTC approaches which aren’t very effective or exactly the best idea for a migrainee. (is that a word?) — Spaceman Spiff

Response:

Thanks for all the interesting input. I’ve heard the "no sinus – migraine" argument more times than I can count. I too am quite sure that the headaches are migraine not sinusitis.   The symptoms are just too close to pure textbook migraine.

I went to the ER with a killer sinus headache. The Dr. who was a bit brighter than most of the bulbs in the ER business, x-rayed the sinus and told me the sinus was not the cause of the pain. He pressed on my temple, which sent me through the roof… but a blinding light in my face, which caused me to barff, (missed him!) and he said it was migraine. He pumped my tail full of imitrex and I had my first miracle relief. And a diagnosis. But what I was trying saying (poorly) is that I think one of my big-bad triggers has something to do with the sinuses. I cannot stop a headache with sinus or allergy cures. But, I can get a teeny bit of relief when I carefully manage what is happening in the sinuses. And any relief, no matter how small, is worth something!

I have discovered this also. I take two Drixoral a day as a migraine preventative. When I keep the sinus clear, I have far fewer migraines. I also take lots of benedryl, when needed, anytime I get a runny nose. This is the most effective treatment for prevention I have encountered that uses drugs. NTI is the bomb… and Thursday will be one month with only one migraine. I guess what is very frustrating is that I have never (ever) been able to get a doctor to agree with me that there may be a trigger point related to my schnoz. But _I_ just know there is a relation somehow.

Yup, it is there, keep pressing for relief. A steady dose of decongestant, antihistamine and a daily squirt of one of the nasal steroids may help. I have a cheaper, albeit against the warning label… so you experiment at your own risk. I use 1% hydrocortozone ointment in my nose every night… stuffed up there with a q-tip. Does not win the award for most pleasing sensation I have ever felt in bed, but it helps prevent some pretty unpleasing sensations… I would like to try some king-kong allergy/asthma type of meds for a month or so just as an experiment just to see what happens. But I can’t find a doctor to humor me and write the scripts. Which unfortunately leaves me with Granddad’s home remedy and other OTC approaches which aren’t very effective or exactly the best idea for a migrainee. (is that a word?)

I use drixoral… over the counter. I do have a script for it, and use the generic so it is free… but the over the counter helps for me. the generic benedryl works well also, and gives the benefit of helping me sleep. the OTC cortisone ointment works better for me than the $90 a month sprays. — Spaceman Spiff

rich

Response:

Sorry I didn’t make myself clearer, I was getting no doctor help when I was taking the over the counter stuff.  This was told to me after I started getting help.  Was just sharing an experience. Sharon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is also bad form to self-dose even OTC drugs when a real doctor is writing scripts and carefully titrating dosages of prescription medicine.     The first time I had a weird reaction was with Sudaphed which landed     me in the ER unable to pee. If a headache isn’t bad enough.. try     dealing with a crass nurse pounding a catheter in place, PLUS the     headache. Very bad day!     Second time I took an OTC allergy med. I didn’t realize the medicine     contained DXM which reacted with a serotonergic antidepressant I was     taking.  I went into mild hallucinations, followed by a nasty panic     attack. Thought I was gonna die. IV Ativan let me sleep through the     worst of it. I now really feel for people who live with anxiety/panic     disease. Just terrible. Which leaves steaming and common sense allergy control. Eg, I don’t open the windows in the springtime. Once again, I know these aren’t sinus headaches, but careful common-sense sinus management does seem to lessen the frequency a little. — Spaceman Spiff .

Response:

It is also bad form to self-dose even OTC drugs when a real doctor is writing scripts and carefully titrating dosages of prescription medicine.     The first time I had a weird reaction was with Sudaphed which landed     me in the ER unable to pee. If a headache isn’t bad enough.. try     dealing with a crass nurse pounding a catheter in place, PLUS the     headache. Very bad day!       Second time I took an OTC allergy med. I didn’t realize the medicine     contained DXM which reacted with a serotonergic antidepressant I was     taking.  I went into mild hallucinations, followed by a nasty panic     attack. Thought I was gonna die. IV Ativan let me sleep through the     worst of it. I now really feel for people who live with anxiety/panic     disease. Just terrible.   Which leaves steaming and common sense allergy control. Eg, I don’t open the windows in the springtime. Once again, I know these aren’t sinus headaches, but careful common-sense sinus management does seem to lessen the frequency a little. — Spaceman Spiff .

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Yes, Still do at times.  That is my one of two ways of knowing a migraine is coming.  But If I squeeze too hard, I get yelled at.  ;-) Sharon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharon you said your balls hurt….BEG Ronnie An Antique  *Girl* hey Spiff, I like icy hot too for the same reasons…i just rub it on my temples and a dab on the back of my neck …i also like the smell of it…it helps to ease my migraines a bit too. Chris

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Hawki…. you made me really laugh!!!  Then….. I thought, what’s this with sleep disorders and migraines??  Thank goodness they’ve calmed down now that I’ve gotten older, but for about 10 years I used to get "night terrors". Awful things!!  I would jump out of bed and go to other parts of the house before I *REALLY* woke up.  By that time my heart was racing and I couldn’t figure out what the heck had me so scared.  I went to a 12 week "Stress Management Course" and tried different medications…. also had a sleep study done (of course NOTHING happened that night!!)  Thankfully it gradually disappeared over the years…. Anyway, did you hear anything like that in your conference? Hoping your ankle (ouch!) is feeling much better… Liz

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thought this group would enjoy this… Saw my PCP today in follow up of a nasty ankle sprain  (OUCH!!)…. Whilst there,,,asked for some 3 month "routine" script refills for mail in… Hmmm he says about the Trazadone,,,which I have taken at bedtime for oh,,,probably 10+ years…"you know,,that is a psychotropic??"…hmmmm,,I say…So what???   "well,,we can NO longer Rx those meds….you will have to see a shrink!!"  I nearly fell off the exam table…!! This I am actually looking forward to!!  Can you imagine some poor psychiatrist having to deal with ME???  Lucky me that all I want is the damn Trazadone,,,not opiates…. Talk about wasting an insurance company’s money!! Last week I went out to our desert home…and FORGOT my meds….4 nights of NEVER falling asleep convinced me that this is one med that I must have (even half a tab!!)….esp after hearing at this conference about the "headache and sleep disorder connection."  Now that I think back,,,prior to the Traz I probably NEVER had a decent night’s sleep!! So off to scare a shrink……wish  me..or he….well… LOL… rb Hawki…..the nurse practitioner

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Thought this group would enjoy this… Saw my PCP today in follow up of a nasty ankle sprain  (OUCH!!)…. Whilst there,,,asked for some 3 month "routine" script refills for mail in… Hmmm he says about the Trazadone,,,which I have taken at bedtime for oh,,,probably 10+ years…"you know,,that is a psychotropic??"…hmmmm,,I say…So what???   "well,,we can NO longer Rx those meds….you will have to see a shrink!!"  I nearly fell off the exam table…!! This I am actually looking forward to!!  Can you imagine some poor psychiatrist having to deal with ME???  Lucky me that all I want is the damn Trazadone,,,not opiates…. Talk about wasting an insurance company’s money!! Last week I went out to our desert home…and FORGOT my meds….4 nights of NEVER falling asleep convinced me that this is one med that I must have (even half a tab!!)….esp after hearing at this conference about the "headache and sleep disorder connection."  Now that I think back,,,prior to the Traz I probably NEVER had a decent night’s sleep!! So off to scare a shrink……wish  me..or he….well… LOL… rb Hawki…..the nurse practitioner

Response:

But what I was trying saying (poorly) is that I think one of my big-bad triggers has something to do with the sinuses.

I have sinus headaches that "graduate" into migraines. I would like to try some king-kong allergy/asthma type of meds for a month or so just as an experiment just to see what happens. But I can’t find a doctor to humor me and write the scripts. Which unfortunately leaves me with Granddad’s home remedy and other OTC approaches which aren’t very effective or exactly the best idea for a migrainee. (is that a word?)

It is now. (I make up words all the time.) Have you tried Claritin? I have a lot of friends who think it’s a miracle drug. (An antihistamine…) Dana

Response:

Last week I went out to our desert home…and FORGOT my meds….4 nights of NEVER falling asleep convinced me that this is one med that I must have (even half a tab!!)….esp after hearing at this conference about the "headache and sleep disorder connection."  Now that I think back,,,prior to the Traz I probably NEVER had a decent night’s sleep!!

Hawki,   I looked for postings from you about the conference but am limited to google again for reading news (yuck!)  I’m tremendously interested in sleep & migraine connections.  Chris (my 13 1/2 year old) was seeing 3 different neurologists at once–one for his migraines, one for sleep disorders, and one for ADD.  I got a "wealth" of opinions about the various connections  I do know that tricyclic antidepressants have been a life saver for him.  He stays focused, no longer has the night time migraines that resembled extended night terrors, and actually manages to wake up in the morning (I used to be able to dress him and carry him to the table without his ever waking up). Actually, celebrex has limited his migraines even more than the antidepressants.  My insurance has started giving me grief about that one but Chris also has reflux so celebrex was the only NSAID that didn’t cause additional stomach problems.  I’m hoping his decrease after puberty (both my brothers had that happen). We’ve talked about trying him off celebrex over the summer but like most migraine sufferers I hate to stop what’s working! Georgia

Response:

Thought this group would enjoy this… Saw my PCP today in follow up of a nasty ankle sprain  (OUCH!!)…. Whilst there,,,asked for some 3 month "routine" script refills for mail in… Hmmm he says about the Trazadone,,,which I have taken at bedtime for oh,,,probably 10+ years…"you know,,that is a psychotropic??"…hmmmm,,I say…So what???   "well,,we can NO longer Rx those meds….you will have to see a shrink!!"  I nearly fell off the exam table…!!

Sez who?  Where?  I not a shrink and prescribed some yesterday, are "they" coming to get me? Most peculiar! Sandy L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Snip rb Hawki…..the nurse practitioner

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Georgia, Last night on 48 Hours on TV there was a segment on sleep disorders and children, indicating that there are kids diagnosed with ADD who actually are sleep-deprived kids who have apnea.  Unlike adults who are just plain sleepy in the daytime (and tired, and irritable) in similar circumstances, kids actively resist feeling sleepy but their behavior can be interpreted as ADD instead. They showed a doctor in Minnesota who does sleep studies etc. who has found that kids who snore can be significantly helped by tonsillectomies & then turn into different children when they get sleep. As an overweight adult with mild apnea but severe snoring, I’ve found a lot of relief from CPAP (the mask thing you wear connected to a hose that pumps air into you all night keeping your airways from collapsing & preventing snoring). I think sleep deprivation can affect people in all kinds of ways.  I also had looked into the whole surgery question (initially tempting as a way to permanently fix the problem) but found that at least for adults, the fix is often not a fix, and often not permanent.  But I already had my tonsils out at age 25. Does your son snore? Rosemary Georgia wrote (in part): – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m tremendously interested in sleep & migraine connections.  Chris (my 13 1/2 year old) was seeing 3 different neurologists at once–one for his migraines, one for sleep disorders, and one for ADD.  I got a "wealth" of opinions about the various connections  I do know that tricyclic antidepressants have been a life saver for him.  He stays focused, no longer has the night time migraines that resembled extended night terrors, and actually manages to wake up in the morning (I used to be able to dress him and carry him to the table without his ever waking up). Actually, celebrex has limited his migraines even more than the antidepressants.  My insurance has started giving me grief about that one but Chris also has reflux so celebrex was the only NSAID that didn’t cause additional stomach problems.  I’m hoping his decrease after puberty (both my brothers had that happen). We’ve talked about trying him off celebrex over the summer but like most migraine sufferers I hate to stop what’s working! Georgia

Response:

Kadee, That is what my Neurologist said too about the sinus and migraines.  When I told him I had sinus headaches and migraines, he asked me just what made me think they were sinus headaches.  From what I had told him he said they were migraines also.  I thought when your eyeballs and area hurt it was sinus but I was wrong. Sharon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well $%#$# if it didn’t actually help. Trust me this is no cure, but Im sure everyone here will know what I mean when I say every inch of benefit is worth its weight in gold. My HAs tend to drop one, maybe two, points on a ten point scale. Something about the billowing steam in the face with the icy feeling of the Vicks is soothing. Breath deep too. 5-10 minutes. Since then I have become utterly convinced there is some kinda link between the sinuses and the headaches. Unfortunately no doctor will back-me-up and I am forced to work on my own. I have had air sample analysis done in my house, gone to ENTs, and countless other attempts w/o success. But I remain 100% convinced there _is_ a correlation. Hi Spiff, Years ago, before the migraine diagnosis, I was treated for what the doctors thought were allergy or sinus headaches. It did help with the allergy symptoms but not the extreme headache. I would be asking for the trepanning kit with the Vicks treatment but glad it worked for you. I am extremely odour sensitive and my major triggers are odours. Vicks will give me a nasty headache. There are so many variables. I do have some headaches which affect the sinus areas and my glands in the neck and throat area swell. Other headaches don’t affect this. It depend on the trigger for me, I think. Dr. Robbins has said that what many think are sinus headaches are really migraines. His site is down now as his ISP disappeared but I will check his book for the quote. In the book, Headache Help, he says "Although many people think they suffer from chronic sinus headaches, chances are they are experiencing mild migraines . . . In certain season or during weather changes, many people with migraines do experience a stuffy frontal headache, which they mistake for a sinus headache. A combined approach, treating both the migraines and nasal congestion, may be necessary." He mentions how most sinus headaches are caused by infection and fluid buildup and are accomp[anied by fever, postnasal drip, runny nose etc. "Migraines, on the other hand, are far more common than sinus headaches, but are often misidentified because they can cause pain in the sinuses. . . . . Pain in the sinus region may have nothing to do with the sinuses. " kadee

Response:

hey Spiff, I like icy hot too for the same reasons…i just rub it on my temples and a dab on the back of my neck …i also like the smell of it…it helps to ease my migraines a bit too. Chris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think this IDEAs thread is kinda cool. If one person gets any help mitigating these horrible HAs it will be totally worthwhile! I normally just lurk but in the interest of helping ourselves, here is my story. I started getting migraines as a teenager. At first just a few a year, but slowly they got worse. Now Im 40 and I get about 3 debilitating headaches a week. You know the kind: daggers in the brain, nausea, can’t do anything but lie in bed in a dark room. I have tried just about everything imaginable with no luck. Name a drug and I will tell you what it does. I don’t know why, but I am very (emotionally) sensitive to my headache problem. I *never* let anyone see me with a HA; I rarely talk about it; and I even catch myself lying to make excuses afterwards when I miss-out on something. I don’t know why I feel this way, but I do. It really hurts sometimes to face this alone, but that’s another topic.

I’m willing to bet a lot of us hide the pain at least to some degree from time to time. I know I do. I hate anybody feeling sorry for me, it gets annoying for somebody to say "sorry" every single time there’s a noise they think was too loud, I don’t want some uninformed soul wondering how "a headache" could be so awful, I hate that I’m the cause of that very concerned look on my husband’s face, etc., etc., etc. I hid the fact that I had a migraine for so long, that there have been times I had to remind myself to let an ER doc see how bad I felt. I *am* getting better at not guilting myself over the fact that my head is killing me (not all the time, but I try), and it’s pointless to try and hide just how bad I feel from my husband. He gets right up in my face and looks in my eyes, and then he knows anyway. Sometimes it’s absolutely impossible to hide the pain from *anybody*, but other times it seems the thing to do. Don’t ask me why, because I’d tell someone else they shouldn’t feel the need to do that. Then again, I’ve always been better at giving my advice than taking it. Cyndi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what’s the point? One day a few years ago my mother was coming to visit. We live in the same city and get together regularly so this isn’t a big deal. She missed the phone call saying not to visit and actually saw me with a HA. She knows I get the HAs, but hasn’t actually seen one since I was a teenager. She was quite upset at what she found and started to do motherly things to try to help. The whole time I was just trying to get her to leave without being too abrasive. Her father, my grandfather, would get an occasional headache. He never had migraines or anything serious. (personally I think it was just a little too much "hooch" the prev night) Anyway he had an old folk remedy which involved boiling a big pot of water, putting a few drops of Vicks into the water, and steaming his head using a towel over the whole setup. (please remove from stove first Well $%#$# if it didn’t actually help. Trust me this is no cure, but Im sure everyone here will know what I mean when I say every inch of benefit is worth its weight in gold. My HAs tend to drop one, maybe two, points on a ten point scale. Something about the billowing steam in the face with the icy feeling of the Vicks is soothing. Breath deep too. 5-10 minutes. Since then I have become utterly convinced there is some kinda link between the sinuses and the headaches. Unfortunately no doctor will back-me-up and I am forced to work on my own. I have had air sample analysis done in my house, gone to ENTs, and countless other attempts w/o success. But I remain 100% convinced there _is_ a correlation. Sorry.. this is getting wayyy to long. I just wanted to share my steam/Vicks story and sinus theory. Hope someone gets a teeny bit of benefit. It’s cheap and side-effect free to try, anyway. — Spaceman Spiff   {a member of the club no one want to belong to}

Response:

I think this IDEAs thread is kinda cool. If one person gets any help mitigating these horrible HAs it will be totally worthwhile! I normally just lurk but in the interest of helping ourselves, here is my story. I started getting migraines as a teenager. At first just a few a year, but slowly they got worse. Now Im 40 and I get about 3 debilitating headaches a week. You know the kind: daggers in the brain, nausea, can’t do anything but lie in bed in a dark room. I have tried just about everything imaginable with no luck. Name a drug and I will tell you what it does. I don’t know why, but I am very (emotionally) sensitive to my headache problem. I *never* let anyone see me with a HA; I rarely talk about it; and I even catch myself lying to make excuses afterwards when I miss-out on something. I don’t know why I feel this way, but I do. It really hurts sometimes to face this alone, but that’s another topic. So what’s the point? One day a few years ago my mother was coming to visit. We live in the same city and get together regularly so this isn’t a big deal. She missed the phone call saying not to visit and actually saw me with a HA. She knows I get the HAs, but hasn’t actually seen one since I was a teenager. She was quite upset at what she found and started to do motherly things to try to help. The whole time I was just trying to get her to leave without being too abrasive. Her father, my grandfather, would get an occasional headache. He never had migraines or anything serious. (personally I think it was just a little too much "hooch" the prev night) Anyway he had an old folk remedy which involved boiling a big pot of water, putting a few drops of Vicks into the water, and steaming his head using a towel over the whole setup. (please remove from stove first Well $%#$# if it didn’t actually help. Trust me this is no cure, but Im sure everyone here will know what I mean when I say every inch of benefit is worth its weight in gold. My HAs tend to drop one, maybe two, points on a ten point scale. Something about the billowing steam in the face with the icy feeling of the Vicks is soothing. Breath deep too. 5-10 minutes. Since then I have become utterly convinced there is some kinda link between the sinuses and the headaches. Unfortunately no doctor will back-me-up and I am forced to work on my own. I have had air sample analysis done in my house, gone to ENTs, and countless other attempts w/o success. But I remain 100% convinced there _is_ a correlation. Sorry.. this is getting wayyy to long. I just wanted to share my steam/Vicks story and sinus theory. Hope someone gets a teeny bit of benefit. It’s cheap and side-effect free to try, anyway. — Spaceman Spiff   {a member of the club no one want to belong to}

Response:

I have learned a lot despite having Migraines for 37 years.

Paul, out of curiosity, what did you learn? Maybe I need to learn it too.  Thanks Jenni

Response:

Catherine, THANK YOU!! I have the answer I have been looking for, Really!! Now I understand. The Idea’s subject of mine is closed, Thank you everyone for writing I have learned a lot despite having Migraines for 37 years. Regards Paul

Response:

what I don’t understand is if I .. for say 6 months don’t eat food

triggers, don’t look at flashing lights, don’t use computers, and the 100’s of other triggers, I would bet I would still get a migraine. Why? Now THAT is the question.

Because the triggers don’t CAUSE the migraine.  They TRIGGER it.  It is caused by our peculiar chemistry (or bad head fairies … sorry to harp on this, but it’s my favorite metaphor) which makes us oversensitive to a number of potential triggers.  If the triggers aren’t, well, triggered, the body eventually gets to a place where the migraine needs to express itself because it is THERE.

Response:

Kadee if your Doctor puts 2 and 2 together please rush home and let us all know! Good luck! Yep, we all have different triggers, I could give myself a migraine by drinking a can of coke or a black coffee 100% and Yes 100% I say triggers cause Migraines. BUT! what I don’t understand is if I ( I don’t know about everyone else ) for say 6 months don’t eat food triggers, don’t look at flashing lights, don’t use computers, and the 100’s of other triggers, I would bet I would still get a migraine. Why? Now THAT is the question. Very briefly I will tell you a personal secret of mine that I have told no one else about. That is, I won’t go on holiday, I won’t take my disabled daughter ( I am a lone dad ) to the City in case I get a migraine, I shop locally. I am scared after I have had 2 shots of imitrex with 12 hours before I can have another and then get a full blown attack, don’t think I could go through that pain on the right of my forehead again. It’s hard to believe it’s 2002 and they have robot’s doing Operations, cure some cancers if caught early, sow a arm, leg etc back on, take a gall bladder out with a tube so no cutting needed, yet they ( who r they bye the way ) can’t cure a headache called a Migraine. May we all find the answer and soon. Paul

Response:

Question:

I just recently got a scarlet macaw and took him in to the vet for his initial checkup.  While I was there, I was talking to the vet about the other birds we have and mentioned we have a lesser sulpher crested ‘too.  She warned me to keep the feather dust down because some macaws can develop allergies to the ‘too dust.  Does anyone know anything more about this?  Perhaps some sites or books that discuss this in more detail?  I knew that some people could develop allergies to ‘toos, but the macaw was a new one to me.  Any thoughts or _useful_ comments?

Response:

Cockatoo dust can be fatal to Macaws.  It can cause respiratory distress, allergies, and in some cases the reaction can cause the death of the macaw.  

Response:

I just recently got a scarlet macaw and took him in to the vet for his initial checkup.  While I was there, I was talking to the vet about the other birds we have and mentioned we have a lesser sulpher crested ‘too.  She warned me to keep the feather dust down because some macaws can develop allergies to the ‘too dust.  Does anyone know anything more about this?  Perhaps some sites or books that discuss this in more detail?  I knew that some people could develop allergies to ‘toos, but the macaw was a new one to me.  Any thoughts or _useful_ comments?

You do get the odd macaw that suffers from asthma type attacks which might be why your vet sees a potential connection. I can’t say that we’ve ever had a prob with ‘too dust and macaws tho, and the only people I’ve known with asthma suffering macaws tend to link it mainly to a specific food allergy, low humidity levels or stress.

Response:

No, but my amazon was sneezing on and off, and the vet’s first quesitons was, is there any consturciton in the area. He is convinced here sneezing was caused by dust.

Response:

Question:

     I have the same problem with breathing.  It feels like I just cannot fill my lungs, or their capacity has diminished.  Since I am aware of how hyperventilation can make one feel and react I was sure that wasn’t the problem.  My sleep doc told me that my obstructive apnea had possibly confounded my CNS into thinking that I wasn’t getting enough oxygen even when I was.  She said the apnea had set up a whole cycle of events that included the breathing and brought on occassional events of Central Nervous System apnea even though that is not what I have.      I am supposed to go through surgery for a tracheostomy later this month.  I am SOOOO tired, but I just don’t want the surgery.  My apnea is very severe (obviously, if I need a trach!) but my heart is still in good condition despite years of this.  I want to put off the surgery if it will buy me enough time to find another solution.  Any ideas from anyone?

Response:

Dennis White wrote:

     I have the same problem with breathing.  It feels like I just cannot fill my lungs, or their capacity has diminished.  Since I am aware of how hyperventilation can make one feel and react I was sure that wasn’t the problem.  My sleep doc told me that my obstructive apnea had possibly confounded my CNS into thinking that I wasn’t getting enough oxygen even when I was.  She said the apnea had set up a whole cycle of events that included the breathing and brought on occassional events of Central Nervous System apnea even though that is not what I have.      I am supposed to go through surgery for a tracheostomy later this month.  I am SOOOO tired, but I just don’t want the surgery.  My apnea is very severe (obviously, if I need a trach!) but my heart is still in good condition despite years of this.  I want to put off the surgery if it will buy me enough time to find another solution.  Any ideas from anyone?

Exercise?!?!?!

Response:

Dennis White wrote:

     I have the same problem with breathing.  It feels like I just cannot fill my lungs, or their capacity has diminished.  Since I am aware of how hyperventilation can make one feel and react I was sure that wasn’t the problem.  My sleep doc told me that my obstructive apnea had possibly confounded my CNS into thinking that I wasn’t getting enough oxygen even when I was.  She said the apnea had set up a whole cycle of events that included the breathing and brought on occassional events of Central Nervous System apnea even though that is not what I have.      I am supposed to go through surgery for a tracheostomy later this month.  I am SOOOO tired, but I just don’t want the surgery.  My apnea is very severe (obviously, if I need a trach!) but my heart is still in good condition despite years of this.  I want to put off the surgery if it will buy me enough time to find another solution.  Any ideas from anyone?

Are you SURE your heart is in good condition?  Have you had a hight detail echogram on it?  Sounds like a classic case of OSA induced heart enlargement. Having a trach doesn’t mean your condition is severe unless you have exhausted all other aspects. Why aren’t you using CPAP? This is very ominour surgery and should be seriously considered and only as a last resort.  Make yourself aware of its dangers. Regards, Lee — Lee Babcock Toronto in the GWN

Response:

Norm and all, I get alot of good exercise.  I walk, I jog, I lift, and I work in construction! Dennis

Response:

Dennis White wrote:

Norm and all, I get alot of good exercise.  I walk, I jog, I lift, and I work in construction! Dennis

Damn!  I hate to not help solve a problem.  <:)  (:

Have you ever been told you were a "shallow breather"?  If so, try regular deeper breathing.  I recall as a clarinetist, I was instructed to breath from my diaphragm.  I don’t have any real knowledge or feelings about this, but if your problem is bad enough, you might want to look into ‘diaphragm breathing’.

Response:

All, I think there is something here!  I have never been told I am a shallow breather, but I have always instinctively felt that I am!  Someone else suggested yoga.  I’m going to try it, and report back. Dennis

Response:

G’day Susan, A quick update…  I no longer have the same constricted feeling.  It has lessened to almost nothing now.  Hopefully the same will happen for you. I haven’t changed anything (diet, exxercise, weight, medications, etc). Regards,   Geoff

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sharon wrote:

"NormC" <no…@socal.rr.com wrote in message news:3AF9A71C.C04E3078@socal.rr.com… Dennis White wrote: Norm and all, I get alot of good exercise.  I walk, I jog, I lift, and I work in construction! Dennis Damn!  I hate to not help solve a problem.  <:)  (: Have you ever been told you were a "shallow breather"?  If so, try regular deeper breathing.  I recall as a clarinetist, I was instructed to breath from my diaphragm.  I don’t have any real knowledge or feelings about this, but if your problem is bad enough, you might want to look into ‘diaphragm breathing’. I took some yoga lessons once and the instructor had us do deep breathing exercises.  She had us to inhale the air down toward the tummy instead of the chest.  Hard to explain, but if you do it right, you can put your hand on your tummy and you will feel it expand to know you are doing it right and your chest won’t move, well, just a little.

I think we are talking about exactly the same thing.  I would merely change the word "tummy" to diaphragm.

Response:

"NormC" <no…@socal.rr.com

wrote in message

news:3AF9A71C.C04E3078@socal.rr.com…

Dennis White wrote: Norm and all, I get alot of good exercise.  I walk, I jog, I lift, and I work in construction! Dennis Damn!  I hate to not help solve a problem.  <:)  (: Have you ever been told you were a "shallow breather"?  If so, try regular deeper breathing.  I recall as a clarinetist, I was instructed to breath

from my

diaphragm.  I don’t have any real knowledge or feelings about this, but if

your

problem is bad enough, you might want to look into ‘diaphragm breathing’.

I took some yoga lessons once and the instructor had us do deep breathing exercises.  She had us to inhale the air down toward the tummy instead of the chest.  Hard to explain, but if you do it right, you can put your hand on your tummy and you will feel it expand to know you are doing it right and your chest won’t move, well, just a little. Sharon

Response:

Yes, but I have an obstruction in the lower tubes said to be caused by smoking ( I stopped 12 years ago) and aggravated by being overweight. You should see your doctor. George. "Sssusannn" <sssusa…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010422182509.03777.00000628@ng-mo1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have been on my CPAP now for a year.  I’ve noticed that I sometimes have

a

very difficult time breathing when I climb a lot of stairs or walk up a

steep

incline.  Could this have anything to do with using a CPAP at night??  My friend (who’s kids have asthma) says I sound like I am getting exercise -induced asthma attacks.  Or could it be that I am nopt breathing well

without

the machine??   Does anyone out there have a similar experience? susan

Response:

<< Yah.  But I’m obese.  How bout yu?

I have only had this problem the last few months and I actually weigh less than I did a year ago…this is not a matter of being out of shape. Susan

Response:

I have had a similar experience.  I went through a variety of tests for asthma, blood clots, and lung problems with no result.  I sleep much better wit the CPAP, but I still have the impression that my general lung capacity is decreasing.  I notice this as a flute player who takes more and more frequent breaths, quite aside from exercising which seems to help. Actually, I find that breathe rite strips are sometimes very helpful through the day, so this may all be nose problems. "Sssusannn" <sssusa…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010423193808.25300.00000779@ng-mh1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

<< Yah.  But I’m obese.  How bout yu? I have only had this problem the last few months and I actually weigh less

than

I did a year ago…this is not a matter of being out of shape. Susan

Response:

me too…………obesity, age………….all adds up to a very uncomfortable life style.

Response:

yes always have breathing trouble in daytime wish i could take the CPAP on back with battery pack, have had many tests for asthma but i do not have it but do have small lung capacity. I have always had a small lung capacity all my life even before i knew about osa. When i first went on CPAP 3 years ago , my lung capacity increased in first 3 months but then when backwards. Have been told walking for 1 to 2 hours a day increases lung capacity. Warren "Sssusannn" <sssusa…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010422182509.03777.00000628@ng-mo1.aol.com… I have been on my CPAP now for a year.  I’ve noticed that I sometimes have a very difficult time breathing when I climb a lot of stairs or walk up a steep incline.  Could this have anything to do with using a CPAP at night??  My friend (who’s kids have asthma) says I sound like I am getting exercise -induced asthma attacks.  Or could it be that I am nopt breathing well without the machine??   Does anyone out there have a similar experience? susan

Response:

G’day Susan, I have found exactly the same thing.  I get an asthma-type of constriction in my chest, and find it harder to get my breath after exertion (or even laughing at extreme times) than ever before.  I have never had asthma at any time during the last 43 years. Initially, I put this down to the polluted air I was breathing in central Bangkok, but the feeling has persisted long after I returned home to Melbourne.  It is fading now, as I get more used to the autopap machine I am using. Regards,   Geoff

Response:

<<  I went through a variety of tests for asthma, blood clots, and lung problems with no result.  I sleep much better with the CPAP, but I still have the impression that my general lung capacity is decreasing.

I am going through testing now…I have an echocardiogram and a pulmonary function test on Friday.  I too feel like my lung capacity is diminshed.  It takes more effort to breathe doing things I have always done, like climb the stairs to my apartment (where I have lived for 9 years) and like I said earlier, I weigh less than last year or previous years.

Response:

<< I have found exactly the same thing.  I get an asthma-type of constriction in my chest, and find it harder to get my breath after exertion

That exactly describes the feeling!!  I was unable to climb the stairs to the top of Notre Dame Cathedrale even though I have done it several times before…I felt like I wasn’t getting any air in. Susan

Response:

Yup.  Every test said I had exceptionally good lungs so I said, "That’s nice (gasp) why am I short (gasp) of breath?"  I have much less of that now although Tuesday was bad that way, but I ended up with a migraine which also features shortness of breath.  I also find that Breathe Right Strips seem to help in getting more air in through the nose during the day.  Looks funny, but I feel better. "Sssusannn" <sssusa…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010502212921.14474.00001814@ng-mb1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

<< I have found exactly the same thing.  I get an asthma-type of

constriction

in my chest, and find it harder to get my breath after exertion That exactly describes the feeling!!  I was unable to climb the stairs to

the

top of Notre Dame Cathedrale even though I have done it several times before…I felt like I wasn’t getting any air in. Susan

Response:

Sssusannn wrote:

I have been on my CPAP now for a year.  I’ve noticed that I sometimes have a very difficult time breathing when I climb a lot of stairs or walk up a steep incline.  Could this have anything to do with using a CPAP at night??  My friend (who’s kids have asthma) says I sound like I am getting exercise -induced asthma attacks.  Or could it be that I am nopt breathing well without the machine??   Does anyone out there have a similar experience? susan

Yah.  But I’m obese.  How bout yu?

Response:

Could be you are out of shape.  You could see your regular doctor and he could take a look at you. "Sssusannn" <sssusa…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010422182509.03777.00000628@ng-mo1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have been on my CPAP now for a year.  I’ve noticed that I sometimes have

a

very difficult time breathing when I climb a lot of stairs or walk up a

steep

incline.  Could this have anything to do with using a CPAP at night??  My friend (who’s kids have asthma) says I sound like I am getting exercise -induced asthma attacks.  Or could it be that I am nopt breathing well

without

the machine??   Does anyone out there have a similar experience? susan

Response:

Sssusannn wrote:

<< Yup.  Every test said I had exceptionally good lungs   Just got my results.  Great lung capacity and functioning and very strong heart muscle. So now what?? Susan

I recognized a breathing problem right around the time I started on CPAP in October.  I think it was a little before I started on CPAP because I had gained 20-25 pounds and wasn’t exercising regularly.  However, I did became more aware of it after I got on CPAP.  I even mentioned it here to the NG. Don’t know that it manifested itself in the same way.  For me I couldn’t seem to take a good deep breath, regardless if I was exerting myself or not.  I could just be sitting and feel the need to take a deep breath.  I just couldn’t seem to quite get it.- like I just couldn’t inhale enough to get it.  Even if I tried multiple times. I don’t necessarily think that CPAP made the difference, because I made some additional changes.  I went back to my exercise routine(s), which include some stretching exercises that require some deep breaths (abdominal curls), particularly as I am overweight, and 30 minutes of aerobic exercise on a recumbent stationary bike. I present the above in hopes that it might help one with their breathing problem(s). Good luck and let us know.

Response:

<< Yup.  Every test said I had exceptionally good lungs  

Just got my results.  Great lung capacity and functioning and very strong heart muscle. So now what?? Susan

Response:

I have been on my CPAP now for a year.  I’ve noticed that I sometimes have a very difficult time breathing when I climb a lot of stairs or walk up a steep incline.  Could this have anything to do with using a CPAP at night??  My friend (who’s kids have asthma) says I sound like I am getting exercise -induced asthma attacks.  Or could it be that I am nopt breathing well without the machine??   Does anyone out there have a similar experience? susan

Response:

Question:

    Thanks Jay…….I’ve looked at Dr. Bob’s site and your right it doe’s contain some good information.  I’m currently takiing;   Vicoden 4 times a day 5/500    Zoloft 200 mgs    Trazodone 100 mgs     Humalin Insulin via the Mini-Med pump this can range    from 20-40 units per day according the the Carb intake.        I haven’t really noticed a change in the blood sugar levels while being on the anti’s…..what affects my bg’s is my emotions which at this point in life are out of control.  I’m wondering what type things will or can happen when you miss 2 days worth of Zoloft…….I ran out while waiting a delivery.  I’ve been keeping myself very busy to keep from thinking, which right now….thinking only causes me more trouble due to the way all of this has affected my family.  An idle mind is a bad thing…..so I’ve learned to not allow my mind to idle…..I’m working on the house and fixing somethings up and that seems to help…..except for the chronic pain……but oh well….I refuse to stop living due to pain.                     Pam

Pam: Medication and reaction are *so* unique, for the most part, it’s hard for anybody to gauge how "well" something is working compared to others. I stopped writting replies for fear of ‘influencing’ anybody, because of the above. But, there is some general experience, and qualities that others experience *may* help you with. I get some of my anecdotal evidence from the "Dr. Bob’s" website. Anyhow, it appears there are a number of people who are quite sensitve to the actions of a few of the (sometimes) activating a.d’s, in particular Prozac, Zoloft, and even Effexor. (Even though these meds can also cause major fatigue depending on the person…but I can also see a connection between fatigue and anxiety…it’s just not all so simple to divide it up.) This is *my experience*…but it is *very individual*..please remember that:-) Elavil was the first med I tried (for major anxiety and depression.) I was on it for 6 months..and had horrible results. Everything got worse…I put on weight..sleepiness WITH horrid anxiety and aggitation. It was really only the lorazepam that I was also on that helped relieve the aggitation. Prozac…this is something you may want to keep in mind…has been mentioned over at Dr. Bob’s site. Apparently *this is only a *possibility*..), people who are sensitive to caffeine, are also sensitive to Prozac. They say they have this test…in which they have a patient try a cup of coffee in the morning, or any other caffiene beverage, and most often, if they are sensitive to it, they will have a hard time with Prozac. Zoloft, I stuck out for 5 or so months. I got up to the 200, 250 mg range. It always seemed to help out at first, and I could tolerate it for about a week, but I crashed into one of my worst deep depressions in my life on that stuff. I was so damn *sad*….I had to drop out of university for a year..and when I had started it in September, recall going to school, feeling so *scared*…and then going to the parking lot and crying and sleeping for most of the day in my car. I spent *all* of my loan money, and didn’t even pay the university tuition, and now owe that money to the banks and the university. So, I can greatly empathize with you. Some people have found this med to be a miracle, though, as with most meds. Somebody mentioned a Serzone/SSRI combo. and their bad experience. Well, apparently the effect of Serzone on the specific serotonin receptor, and the opposite effect of the SSRI’s, can cause some horrible side effects. I’ve gone the sole Serzone route, only to find it just made me jumpy, extreme fatigue, and little effect on my depression and anxiety. There are a couple of meds that many seem to be trying, with *some success*..BUT..again it is very individual. I can’t generalize because I have seen both sides, as with all meds. The only thing I think we can do is *try*. One is Effexor…but this also has some very bad stories to go along…including making anxiety much worse, and a "strung out" feeling. The other is the SSRI med Celexa, but I’ve also read accounts of it being useless also. It apparently does have an "atypical" action, and some experience little in the way of side effects. It is supposedly used as a "kinder..gentler.." Paxil-type med. Regarding the side effects, though, that is something best for you and your doctor to test and find out. With your complications, I imagine it may be best to try another med, but as you know, there are no sure-fire  ones. I am also curious what other meds you take…and that some can mess with your depression more. The narcotic pain killers seem to sometimes be of help in people experiencing depression, but they can also depress you even more, regardless of a.d. The website, Dr. Bob’s, I mention is at http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/  You also might want to be careful of problems created by meds with your diabetic meds. I take it you are on insulin? You must be very cautious….and be as *tardy* about your blood-sugar as possible. I imagine you know that, but just want to underline it as many psychotropic meds can mess up blood-sugar, and diabetes meds. I can’t offer any "for sure" guarantees that meds will help your depression and anxiety, but striking a careful balance with meds, I thinks it is possible to help relieve some *symptoms*, and you should try and get some support through a support group and/ or counselling. Your local hospital should be running such things. Most of the "Depression Anon." meetings are free of charge, and often a great way to help you get out and interact, and build up your sence of self and communication again. If you have further questions, keep the dialouge going, as there are many people in here who may be able to offer you some support, and their perspective. It’s so easy with age to become cynical…I found as I got older, my depression and anxiety get the worst of me, as we are *expected* to be too *mature* for this stuff, but that is plain, downright dumb. You can also type in searches on the Dr.Bob’s website, and read a large range of experiences from Doctors. Best wishes…talk to you soon.. Jay

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Can anyone tell me of a site that goe’s into detail about major depression?  I’ve tried Elavil…..Paxil…..and am on 200 mgs of Zoloft for 5 weeks with no releive what so ever……also taking 100 mgs of Trazodone. What may be a good med to try next? I suffer from Diabetic Retinopathy, nueropathy, fms, asthma, type 1 diabetes for close to 26 years and now the depression and congnative troubles ( I call this CRS), that goes along with all of this.  I’ve decided that my shrink is a bleepin idiot…..he don’t listen to anything I have to say…..so now I understand why people who suffer from depression sometimes don’t seek the help they need….personally I think the shrinks are the ones who are in need of medication! Thanks in advance for any suggestions and have a good day ya’ll.                         Pam

Response:

Pam: Medication and reaction are *so* unique, for the most part, it’s hard for anybody to gauge how "well" something is working compared to others. I stopped writting replies for fear of ‘influencing’ anybody, because of the above. But, there is some general experience, and qualities that others experience *may* help you with. I get some of my anecdotal evidence from the "Dr. Bob’s" website. Anyhow, it appears there are a number of people who are quite sensitve to the actions of a few of the (sometimes) activating a.d’s, in particular Prozac, Zoloft, and even Effexor. (Even though these meds can also cause major fatigue depending on the person…but I can also see a connection between fatigue and anxiety…it’s just not all so simple to divide it up.) This is *my experience*…but it is *very individual*..please remember that:-) Elavil was the first med I tried (for major anxiety and depression.) I was on it for 6 months..and had horrible results. Everything got worse…I put on weight..sleepiness WITH horrid anxiety and aggitation. It was really only the lorazepam that I was also on that helped relieve the aggitation. Prozac…this is something you may want to keep in mind…has been mentioned over at Dr. Bob’s site. Apparently *this is only a *possibility*..), people who are sensitive to caffeine, are also sensitive to Prozac. They say they have this test…in which they have a patient try a cup of coffee in the morning, or any other caffiene beverage, and most often, if they are sensitive to it, they will have a hard time with Prozac. Zoloft, I stuck out for 5 or so months. I got up to the 200, 250 mg range. It always seemed to help out at first, and I could tolerate it for about a week, but I crashed into one of my worst deep depressions in my life on that stuff. I was so damn *sad*….I had to drop out of university for a year..and when I had started it in September, recall going to school, feeling so *scared*…and then going to the parking lot and crying and sleeping for most of the day in my car. I spent *all* of my loan money, and didn’t even pay the university tuition, and now owe that money to the banks and the university. So, I can greatly empathize with you. Some people have found this med to be a miracle, though, as with most meds. Somebody mentioned a Serzone/SSRI combo. and their bad experience. Well, apparently the effect of Serzone on the specific serotonin receptor, and the opposite effect of the SSRI’s, can cause some horrible side effects. I’ve gone the sole Serzone route, only to find it just made me jumpy, extreme fatigue, and little effect on my depression and anxiety. There are a couple of meds that many seem to be trying, with *some success*..BUT..again it is very individual. I can’t generalize because I have seen both sides, as with all meds. The only thing I think we can do is *try*. One is Effexor…but this also has some very bad stories to go along…including making anxiety much worse, and a "strung out" feeling. The other is the SSRI med Celexa, but I’ve also read accounts of it being useless also. It apparently does have an "atypical" action, and some experience little in the way of side effects. It is supposedly used as a "kinder..gentler.." Paxil-type med. Regarding the side effects, though, that is something best for you and your doctor to test and find out. With your complications, I imagine it may be best to try another med, but as you know, there are no sure-fire  ones. I am also curious what other meds you take…and that some can mess with your depression more. The narcotic pain killers seem to sometimes be of help in people experiencing depression, but they can also depress you even more, regardless of a.d. The website, Dr. Bob’s, I mention is at http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/  You also might want to be careful of problems created by meds with your diabetic meds. I take it you are on insulin? You must be very cautious….and be as *tardy* about your blood-sugar as possible. I imagine you know that, but just want to underline it as many psychotropic meds can mess up blood-sugar, and diabetes meds. I can’t offer any "for sure" guarantees that meds will help your depression and anxiety, but striking a careful balance with meds, I thinks it is possible to help relieve some *symptoms*, and you should try and get some support through a support group and/ or counselling. Your local hospital should be running such things. Most of the "Depression Anon." meetings are free of charge, and often a great way to help you get out and interact, and build up your sence of self and communication again. If you have further questions, keep the dialouge going, as there are many people in here who may be able to offer you some support, and their perspective. It’s so easy with age to become cynical…I found as I got older, my depression and anxiety get the worst of me, as we are *expected* to be too *mature* for this stuff, but that is plain, downright dumb. You can also type in searches on the Dr.Bob’s website, and read a large range of experiences from Doctors. Best wishes…talk to you soon.. Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Can anyone tell me of a site that goe’s into detail about major depression?  I’ve tried Elavil…..Paxil…..and am on 200 mgs of Zoloft for 5 weeks with no releive what so ever……also taking 100 mgs of Trazodone. What may be a good med to try next? I suffer from Diabetic Retinopathy, nueropathy, fms, asthma, type 1 diabetes for close to 26 years and now the depression and congnative troubles ( I call this CRS), that goes along with all of this.  I’ve decided that my shrink is a bleepin idiot…..he don’t listen to anything I have to say…..so now I understand why people who suffer from depression sometimes don’t seek the help they need….personally I think the shrinks are the ones who are in need of medication! Thanks in advance for any suggestions and have a good day ya’ll.                         Pam

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Can anyone tell me of a site that goe’s into detail about major depression?  I’ve tried Elavil…..Paxil…..and am on 200 mgs of Zoloft for 5 weeks with no releive what so ever……also taking 100 mgs of Trazodone. What may be a good med to try next? I suffer from Diabetic Retinopathy, nueropathy, fms, asthma, type 1 diabetes for close to 26 years and now the depression and congnative troubles ( I call this CRS), that goes along with all of this.  I’ve decided that my shrink is a bleepin idiot…..he don’t listen to anything I have to say…..so now I understand why people who suffer from depression sometimes don’t seek the help they need….personally I think the shrinks are the ones who are in need of medication! Thanks in advance for any suggestions and have a good day ya’ll.                         Pam

First thing to try, a new pdoc…..everyone is different and with the medical conditions that you have I wouldn’t want to speculate about what meds to try…there are so many….I take too many…I know I am going today and telling my pdoc..this is too many…lets see if he listens….I doubt it…I think you’re right about pdocs though..I had a good one once..but he’s dead now. I’m not crazy about SSRI’s though…I use serzone with a tricyclic… I like that combo..it’s working for me…but I use concerta too, 54mg and that is just TOO strong..so that has got to be lowered….so try to find a pdoc that will listen to you..if he doesn’t today…that’s what I’m going to do… Good luck. Deborah

Response:

    Can anyone tell me of a site that goe’s into detail about major depression?  I’ve tried Elavil…..Paxil…..and am on 200 mgs of Zoloft for 5 weeks with no releive what so ever……also taking 100 mgs of Trazodone. What may be a good med to try next? I suffer from Diabetic Retinopathy, nueropathy, fms, asthma, type 1 diabetes for close to 26 years and now the depression and congnative troubles ( I call this CRS), that goes along with all of this.  I’ve decided that my shrink is a bleepin idiot…..he don’t listen to anything I have to say…..so now I understand why people who suffer from depression sometimes don’t seek the help they need….personally I think the shrinks are the ones who are in need of medication! Thanks in advance for any suggestions and have a good day ya’ll.                         Pam

Response: