Encyclopedia Asthma

Article Blood Test for Panic Disorder

admin — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I agree 33 is too small a sample size. Sunil Interesting article. We desperately need more quantitative, objective tools for diagnosing psychiatric illnesses. But some points stuck out. Only 33 subjects in the study seems tiny. I guess they will try to do larger tests in the future. I don’t know much about gene expression but I believe that reacts to conditions in the body, particularly in the immune system, and is not immutable like the genome itself. So, which was the cause, the panic disorder or the differences in the gene expression? Bob

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Interesting article. We desperately need more quantitative, objective tools for diagnosing psychiatric illnesses. But some points stuck out. Only 33 subjects in the study seems tiny. I guess they will try to do larger tests in the future. I don’t know much about gene expression but I believe that reacts to conditions in the body, particularly in the immune system, and is not immutable like the genome itself. So, which was the cause, the panic disorder or the differences in the gene expression? Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Blood Test for Panic Disorder By: Psych Central News Editor on Tuesday, Mar, 6, 2007 The ability to predict or test for certain behavioral and mental conditions appears to be on the doorstep of the rapidly evolving ring of medical genetics. University of Iowa researchers say blood tests for panic disorder and other mental health conditions are being commercially developed. The findings, which were based on analysis of genetic information in immature white blood cells, appear in the American Journal of Medical Genetics.

Suggestions for Bringing Peace to ASAD

admin — Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I thought we could just start a thread on this, rather than have it all over the place in several other threads. So far, we’ve had several folks arguing with quidnuncs. We’ve also had people suggesting that all quidnuncs be deemed "net dead." I propose that those of us who have become targets institute option number 2. Not that any one of us can force that choice on others, but it seems to be the most viable option for many of us when dealing with quidnuncs. Any other suggestions, viable or otherwise? (Of course, I can think of some "or otherwise," but I’m choosing to keep those to myself.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought we could just start a thread on this, rather than have it all over the place in several other threads. So far, we’ve had several folks arguing with quidnuncs. We’ve also had people suggesting that all quidnuncs be deemed "net dead." I propose that those of us who have become targets institute option number 2. Not that any one of us can force that choice on others, but it seems to be the most viable option for many of us when dealing with quidnuncs. Any other suggestions, viable or otherwise? (Of course, I can think of some "or otherwise," but I’m choosing to keep those to myself.

I am a useless turd. Yes. Please count me, "in". Not that it makes a rat’s ass of dofference, BTW.

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I’m going to drive out there and

Gracias. Not that it makes a rat’s ass of dofference, BTW.

Actually, it does. It’s worked well in the past, with the under-the-bridge dwellers and their abuses. Kitten

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Rather than use the term of ‘ silly buggeress ‘, I say … If a chick wishes to be a stupid bitch, there is nothing that I can do about it. http://www.shortarmguy.com/newbillboards10.jpg Repeating and copying from … http://tinyurl.com/gheyy Raving Loonie is a ‘Useless Turd’

O.K. Have it your way. Choke on it.

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Well, considering that my bitches act with more intelligence than some humans I encounter… lol Kitten

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Any other suggestions, viable or otherwise?

I haven’t thought this one through, but perhaps a regular FAQ-like posting explaining to the newbies that certain posters *are* net-dead, and why? It seems like when regulars are taxed with feeding the trolls, they say something like "I couldn’t stand to have new people think that people agreed with Crazed Troll" or "I couldn’t let Crazed Troll go unrefuted." The net-dead FAQ would do the refuting for us without anyone having to be drawn in.

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Any other suggestions, viable or otherwise? I haven’t thought this one through, but perhaps a regular FAQ-like posting explaining to the newbies that certain posters *are* net-dead, and why? It seems like when regulars are taxed with feeding the trolls, they say something like "I couldn’t stand to have new people think that people agreed with Crazed Troll" or "I couldn’t let Crazed Troll go unrefuted." The net-dead FAQ would do the refuting for us without anyone having to be drawn in.

I’ve been thinking that, too. We need something posted periodically that explains why most of us refrain from responding to particular posters, complete with pointers to where the newbies can research the posting histories and make their own choices of whether or not to filter out those we consider net-dead. For all that the under-the-bridge dwellers love to accuse of us all thinking alike, which of us has ever been successful at herding cats? Oh, wait. It’s Marcia who can do that. So, who’s gonna write it, and who’s gonna post it? Should we host it on one of our websites, and then have a short explanatory post with a URL? Kitten

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any other suggestions, viable or otherwise? I haven’t thought this one through, but perhaps a regular FAQ-like posting explaining to the newbies that certain posters *are* net-dead, and why? It seems like when regulars are taxed with feeding the trolls, they say something like "I couldn’t stand to have new people think that people agreed with Crazed Troll" or "I couldn’t let Crazed Troll go unrefuted." The net-dead FAQ would do the refuting for us without anyone having to be drawn in. I’ve been thinking that, too. We need something posted periodically that explains why most of us refrain from responding to particular posters, complete with pointers to where the newbies can research the posting histories and make their own choices of whether or not to filter out those we consider net-dead. For all that the under-the-bridge dwellers love to accuse of us all thinking alike, which of us has ever been successful at herding cats? Oh, wait. It’s Marcia who can do that. So, who’s gonna write it, and who’s gonna post it? Should we host it on one of our websites, and then have a short explanatory post with a URL?

I have to admit that I find myself occasionally posting to certain posters who shall remain nameless…only because the posts are so controversial and they need at least *one* counterpoint to them for any newbie lurkers…and, I admit, my ADHHD sometimes gets the better of me

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Thought you said you might be homeless.

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snip I’ve been thinking that, too. We need something posted periodically that explains why most of us refrain from responding to particular posters, complete with pointers to where the newbies can research the posting histories and make their own choices of whether or not to filter out those we consider net-dead.

Tho a newbie here, I’ve been involved in several groups which have instituted a good solution–either a general FAQ that is posted monthly, a FAQ which is posted when a newbie posts inappropriately (in a writing newsgroup which gets spammed frequently). The Crohns-Colitis support group has specific FAQs for problematic posters with links to web pages. I think the asthma support group has a similar type of thing, targeted to specific snake-oil medication/antimed sorts. Then there’s always the rec.equestrian solution. jrw

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip I’ve been thinking that, too. We need something posted periodically that explains why most of us refrain from responding to particular posters, complete with pointers to where the newbies can research the posting histories and make their own choices of whether or not to filter out those we consider net-dead. Tho a newbie here, I’ve been involved in several groups which have instituted a good solution–either a general FAQ that is posted monthly, a FAQ which is posted when a newbie posts inappropriately (in a writing newsgroup which gets spammed frequently). The Crohns-Colitis support group has specific FAQs for problematic posters with links to web pages. I think the asthma support group has a similar type of thing, targeted to specific snake-oil medication/antimed sorts. Then there’s always the rec.equestrian solution.

Dunno the rec.equestrian solution. lol… but the fibro group has a newbie FAQ specifically about a particular poster who’s been flaming and causing problems there for 4+ years. Kitten

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Thought you said you might be homeless.

Regarding ASAD’s Grim Reaper: All about Necrophiles Kathleen Ramshead http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/necrophiles/4.html "Erich Fromm ….writes about what he calls the development of "malignant aggression" in The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness, and his ideas clarify how some people develop a "necrophilous character." They’re guided by a set of values, which are heavily influenced by social circumstances that move them either toward loving life (biophilous) or loving death and demolition. Certain people appear to crave absolute control, for example, developed from a chaotic childhood. The more one wants control, the less one appreciates the evolving and unpredictable nature of life. Fromm first makes a distinction between the natural instinct of benign aggression, which is developed with the automatic need to protect oneself and to survive, and malignant aggression, which is not physiological in nature. Rather, it is a failure of character rooted in human passion. It is about existential need, or the desire to make a distinct mark on one’s world. If one’s urge is to leave one’s mark destructively, the extremes of that drive are sadism-the passion for unrestricted power over another person-and necrophilia-an attraction to all that is dead. He also distinguishes between sexual and nonsexual necrophilia. The former is the desire to have sex with a corpse and the latter is the need to be near, handle or dismember a corpse. Necrophilia itself, says Fromm, is both real and symbolic. The overall drive of this person is a yearning for life to finish itself. Such people often have dreams about dismembered parts or about rooms full of skeletal or rotting remains. These people desire a world where there is no life and their drive for control makes them increasingly more dangerous. They may seek to control via death. :…" Fromm believed that Adolf Hitler was the perfect example of a necrophilous character, and to illustrate this he analyzed Hitler’s life at length, from childhood to his death by suicide. Hitler gained a position of power that allowed him to exercise to the extreme his fascination with death and destruction, and his desire for a lifeless world. He related best to his dog (when the dog obeyed him), and he exercised total control over the men who worked for him and the women who fell in love with him. A number of these women committed or attempted to commit suicide over his inability to relate to them as people. He was oblivious. He lived with an insatiable hate and the only emotion he showed was excitement over putting his plans into effect (killing the Jews and "defectives") or murderous anger that someone did not carry out his orders. Many people around him questioned whether he ever wanted or believed in victory for the German people, or whether he merely reveled in the constant destruction involved in his rise to power. He was without compassion for anyone and desired only that others afford him the worship and respect he believed he deserved. In Hitler’s case, the necrophilic response to the world is both symbolic and real. He wanted living people to be dead-millions of them-and he wanted a lifeless world where people were more robotic then human. He craved absolute control, which is only achieved when people are inherently not human. There’s little question that his orientation was toward death. Thus, we can see that one need not crave the closeness of a corpse to be considered necrophilous. One need only prefer the images of death to those of life." PS: Nothing will destroy ASAD’s Grim Reaper’s reputation more then the course of action ASAD’s Grim Reaper has embarked on to destroy me because I rejected her LIES, Distortions and half-truths and refuse to indulge her aggressive efforts to pursue unwanted communications with me……because, ASAD’s Grim Reaper’s reputation is not a consequence of what other people say about ASAD’s Grim Reaper, but, a consequence of what ASAD’s Grim Reaper says and does.

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snip

ASAD’s convicted sexual molesters, S & M Freaks, porno kings, disbarred attorney, pharmaceutical marketeer and their doped up, predatory female counterparts already have FOUR FAQ’s including a troll FAQ. ASAD’s convicted child molesters, S & M Freaks, porno king, disbarred attorney and pharmaceutical marketeer and their doped up predatory female predators PROBLEM is that I won’t reply to any of the filthy little liars lies, Distortions, and half truth…because replying to their lies would given them credibility that convicted child molesters, S & M freaks, porno kings, disbarred attorney’s and their doped up predatory female counterparts don’t otherwise have. Since I won’t play their sadistic psychopathic zero sum game…the necrophiles want to create a special faq where they explain their death wish for people who won’t reply to the necrophiles..lies, distortions and half truth. The silver lining to ASAD’s necrophiles doing so….is that their special FAQ will be followed up with a endless stream of truly ghoulish necrophiliac posts’therefore, ASAD’s necrophiles will show their true colors for their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren to see.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip ASAD’s convicted sexual molesters, S & M Freaks, porno kings, disbarred attorney, pharmaceutical marketeer and their doped up, predatory female counterparts already have FOUR FAQ’s including a troll FAQ. ASAD’s convicted child molesters, S & M Freaks, porno king, disbarred attorney and pharmaceutical marketeer and their doped up predatory female predators PROBLEM is that I won’t reply to any of the filthy little liars lies, Distortions, and half truth…because replying to their lies would given them credibility that convicted child molesters, S & M freaks, porno kings, disbarred attorney’s and their doped up predatory female counterparts don’t otherwise have. Since I won’t play their sadistic psychopathic zero sum game…the necrophiles want to create a special faq where they explain their death wish for people who won’t reply to the necrophiles..lies, distortions and half truth. The silver lining to ASAD’s necrophiles doing so….is that their special FAQ will be followed up with a endless stream of truly ghoulish necrophiliac posts’therefore, ASAD’s necrophiles will show their true colors for their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren to see.

For the record, its not that you don’t play games, you’ve just removed your posts elluding to such from usenet. You have, shall we say, sanitized your posting history. Huge difference.

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But there *are* attributions. Kitten

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BTW, what’s been cleared from the archives is still filed away. You just have to know where to look for the records. Kitten

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So, who’s gonna write it, and who’s gonna post it? Should we host it on one of our websites, and then have a short explanatory post with a URL?

We could start here and see what happens. Even if it isn’t a real FAQ, we could repost the resulting consensus when someone felt like it. I’ll start with some questions: Q: What is a troll? (we can cut and paste from Joe’s FAQ) Q: Does everyone agree about who a troll is? (No, but there is a consensus view) Q: Why are you posting a troll FAQ? Are you telling me what to do? (Here’s where we explain about not wanting to let stuff go unrebutted, yet not wanting to have the place full of flame fests) Q: Who are the trolls in ASAD, according to the consensus of the regulars who post here? (We could put the ones almost everyone agrees about in a list. I think there are only three or so, though of course they change nyms all the time. If people want to propose others, they could respond to the FAQ.) Q: OK, let’s say I agree that responding to trolls is probably a waste of time and just annoys me and others. I am ADD! How do I resist such tempting bait? (kill files. Posting John’s little guy:) /| /| | | ||__|| | Please do not | / O O__ | feed the | / | Trolls | / _ || / |____ || / | | | |____/ || / |_|_|/ | _|| / / |____| || / | | | –| | | | |____ –| * _ | |_|_|_| | -/ *– _– _ | || / _ \ | / `’ * / _ /- | | |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any other suggestions, viable or otherwise? I haven’t thought this one through, but perhaps a regular FAQ-like posting explaining to the newbies that certain posters *are* net-dead, and why? It seems like when regulars are taxed with feeding the trolls, they say something like "I couldn’t stand to have new people think that people agreed with Crazed Troll" or "I couldn’t let Crazed Troll go unrefuted." The net-dead FAQ would do the refuting for us without anyone having to be drawn in. I’ve been thinking that, too. We need something posted periodically that explains why most of us refrain from responding to particular posters, complete with pointers to where the newbies can research the posting histories and make their own choices of whether or not to filter out those we consider net-dead. For all that the under-the-bridge dwellers love to accuse of us all thinking alike, which of us has ever been successful at herding cats? Oh, wait. It’s Marcia who can do that. So, who’s gonna write it, and who’s gonna post it? Should we host it on one of our websites, and then have a short explanatory post with a URL? I have to admit that I find myself occasionally posting to certain posters who shall remain nameless…only because the posts are so controversial and they need at least *one* counterpoint to them for any newbie lurkers…and, I admit, my ADHHD sometimes gets the better of me

Well, I must admit that I have trouble resisting responding once in a while to something one of them posts because her posts can tickle my funny bone, and something silly to say in response just so longs to pop out of me. Isn’t it funny how someone with absolutely no sense of humor can amuse me so much? But I’ll try to do better. Or at least keep things out of ASAD. Nancy Unique, like everyone else

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Speaking of humor… Chewy thinks MonkeyBoy needs to see a pic of our Monkey boy. Kitten

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http://www.emediawire.com/prfiles/2004/09/20/160065/tombstone.jpg Nancy Unique, like everyone else

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MonkeyBoy? Did I miss something? Nancy Unique, like everyone else

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OK, we must have blanked. What was your OS’s nick when he posted here? Kitten

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(*EG*) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kitten

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…PROBLEM is that I won’t reply

Are you sure about that? Frankly, I think that you not replying is a rather good thing. You might want to cultivate that behavior.

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Thought you said you might be homeless. Regarding ASAD’s Grim Reaper: PS: Nothing will destroy ASAD’s Grim Reaper’s reputation more then the course of action ASAD’s Grim Reaper has embarked on …

I had a coffee mug once, inscribed with the following: ‘ A big cat might frighten you but a little pussy never hurt anyone ‘ har, har, har … Right? Seems like a whole lot of people are calling you a nasty, ferocious cat! … snarl. Me? … I just see you as a sincere gently pussy. … meow. You remind me of that satirical, ‘classic’ … ‘ The Mouse that Roared ‘ See http://poll.imdb.com/title/tt0053084/ Necrophilous tastes, you say? You mean sort of a choice between … 1) Dead Meat 2) Live Meat ….. ? Funny you should mention that! I seem to recall having the discussion with Kitten. City folk seem to prefer their meat, ‘dead’. … cleaned, trimmed and aged ( ??? ) Country folk, I *suppose*, are more into ‘ live meat ‘. … the less dead, immediately before consumption, the better. mebee, even wiggling on the way down, eh? Sort of brings new meaning to that term … ‘ Necrophile ‘ Yup. … I’ve done a bit of hunting in my day. Enough to know that those who go out and kill their own ‘live meat’ have some apreciation and respect for what they eat. OTOH, I guess that I am truly a city lad, at heart. I prefer to have my meat, ‘ dead ‘ .. and to have it stay that way ;-) Cordially, RL — a proud ‘ Necrophile ‘, like most everyone else ( in the big city ) And not afraid to admit it! :)

Response:

One more for Margrove or anyone who has an opinion :-)

admin — Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi guys. Has anyone ever heard of non-fearful panic disorder (NFPD)? I’ve seen it on a few websites but they seem unsure if this condiiton actually exists. Do you think it is a real condition or a sub-type of regular panic disorder? It seems to describe my illness very well. "Is it possible to have panic attacks without fear? Beitman et al. reported that 32%- 41% of panic disorder (PD) patients seeking treatment for chest pain have non-fearful panic disorder (NFPD). " http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/41/4/311 — _TJ_

Response:

it is one manifestation of anxiety-if one has chest pain and it is anxiety based they are fearful of the pain, the reason behind it and the possibility of real mortal illness and death or prolonged horrible suffering when in fact the only suffering the patient has is the chest pain and the anxiety that produced it and the secondary anxiety about the chest pain there are some adrenal tumors that cause a rapid fire autonomous panic-but eventually the person grounds that into a form of proximal anxiety vrs state anxiety anxiety can manifest itself in all kinds of ways, it is very chameleon like, mimicking all kinds of organic disease-non fearful panic is sort of an oxymoron panic is fear based-a panic like response still has a fear base-the same arousal mechanisms that one experiences with anxiety occurs while having sex or any exciting activity-there is one component to panic that is not present and that is the overabundance of dread rather then joy or pleasure. I suppose on some level one can have the symptoms of panic before one feels panic. I also suppose that one may have out of the blue panic that cannot demonstrate a clear stimuli-but most often one can be found when one knows how to look. Some people can be disconnected from their feelings enough to have anxiety without responding to it or being blinded to it-this is not acceptance of it, it is being avoidant of accepting it. The prominent symptom of gad is worry-worrying about worrying is the next symptom-I do respect Beitman, so I shall try to look into what is being reported here what is meant… — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I do respect Beitman, so I shall try to look into what is being reported here what is meant…

Excellent. And much appreciated. When I first started experiencing panic attacks 30+ years ago, I acquired the usual group of fears – driving, crowds, confined spaces, dark/loud places like clubs and movie theaters, etc. After completing a year of head and med therapy (90-91) I found I was able to unlink those previous fears, and engage in these activities without symptoms. Starting around 2000, I found myself experiencing sudden onset "no-fear panic attacks" accompanied by a lower degree of hyperarousal for days and weeks afterward. There are also days I can engage in pretty much any activity I desire without triggering hyperarousal or symptom escalation. After several visits to my GP and a couple to a cardiologist, all evaluations have come back negative. Looking forward to any information you are willing to share. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I do respect Beitman, so I shall try to look into what is being reported here what is meant… Excellent. And much appreciated. When I first started experiencing panic attacks 30+ years ago, I acquired the usual group of fears – driving, crowds, confined spaces, dark/loud places like clubs and movie theaters, etc. After completing a year of head and med therapy (90-91) I found I was able to unlink those previous fears, and engage in these activities without symptoms.

when we disengage those fears we actually take power back from them-make the things we were afraid of out own-we possess them again. The problem we can encounter as time goes by without continuing a program of continuing to grow our possessions is the same things that scared us before can scare us again-but some component of our belief about that which frightened us is missing-because we beat the crap out of it-so the fears begin at a lower level of intensity-if you start working on those things, paying due dilligence to recovering your ground again-they will go away of become a smaller background then they are now for you Starting around 2000, I found myself experiencing sudden onset "no-fear panic attacks" accompanied by a lower degree of hyperarousal for days and weeks afterward. There are also days I can engage in pretty much any activity I desire without triggering hyperarousal or symptom escalation. After several visits to my GP and a couple to a cardiologist, all evaluations have come back negative.

anxiety disorders are chronic and reccurent so they can abate for periods of time ad come back yet again-sometimes the same and sometimes with a different presentation-this may be why someone like Sheehey believed the anxiety disorder morphed into a different cluster of symptoms-that the disease itself goes through stages-it isn;t stages it is different presentations-we conquer a fear of bridges or social situations only to develop a fear of illness or of a racing heart or of any number of other things-Freud would have called this symptoms replacement, but in fact what it is is the same beliefs "I should not feel afraid or anxious" I must not, I cannot, always, never, have to, got to, etc all these absolutistic ideations begin to wreck havoc again. I can go here, but not there, I can do this but not that-and it changes as you crash apart the beliefs-old habits die hard and our nervous systems and brains are configured to react the way they do-in hyperdrive and super sensitive to negative autosuggestion Looking forward to any information you are willing to share.

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is it possible to have panic attacks without fear? Beitman et al. reported that 32%

I rather be Dazed

admin — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My well meaning sisiter is worried about me taking so many meds for panic. She suggested deeped breathing, thinking good toughts etc. No body around me seems to understand the what its like to have a panic attack. Iam starting to wonder if panic attacks result from a brain disorder. Everyone in this group knows that attacks can be felt inside. Its like having a demon inside your body. It affects every aspects of your life. I rather be dazed from Zyprexa, Xanax and even blood pressure meds. Than staying in bed for days. Has anyone tried these non med treatments? they dont work. Phillip

Response:

I tried no meds last spring. It was awful. I felt like I was going to grind my teeth to nubs. I also felt the "demon inside" feeling. I would love to be able to manage panic on my own… but it ain’t gonna happen. Not then, not now and not in the future. And I’m not bothered by the fact that I have to take meds for it. As long as I feel okay (even not great), then I’m satisfied. —

Hi, I'm Curtis

admin — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Re: Hi Curtis! Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Fri, Dec 16, 2005, 5:29pm (CST-1) From: curtisstinn…@cableone.net (Curtis

Heating and Air Cond. Type and Sinusitis

admin — Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I was just wondering what people have for a heating and AC source? I purposely purchased a house with forced hot water due to my allergist’s recommendation. Although in my area now forced hot air, ducts with AC built in is what builders are putting in. Has anyone lived with both types of heating sources (forced hot air vs. forced hot water) and noticed a difference in their sinusitis? Also what about the AC method?

Response:

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 15:58:47 -0500, "sedum41"

wrote: I was just wondering what people have for a heating and AC source? I purposely purchased a house with forced hot water due to my allergist’s recommendation. Although in my area now forced hot air, ducts with AC built in is what builders are putting in. Has anyone lived with both types of heating sources (forced hot air vs. forced hot water) and noticed a difference in their sinusitis? Also what about the AC method?

There are pros and cons of both types. With forced air, *theoretically* you can filter it but if you still have dust and mold in your room, it will blow it around and this will raise the level in the air in actual fact. In your case, I would stay where you are with what yoy have and try and optimize it. You should be fine if you have some nearly dust-free rooms, What I find myself is that in very cold werther, I am fine because the indoor heat dries (either forced air or radiator) out the mold and dust mites. I am also ok in very hot weather, because the AC dries out the mold and mites. It is in the fall and spring that I have problems. This is because indoor humidity rises and so do mold and mite populations. In those seasons, a lot of air exchange with the outdoors in needed to keep levels down. An open windows in an adjacent room is starting point. If you have active sources of pollution indoors, then you may need more outdoor air exchange even in mid-winter. This is hard to do but possible. Of course it will drastically increase heating costs…… You need to experiment to test the effects of various factors……

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If you have allergy problems you can try a local bee keeper/honey producer. I have had a very bad asthmatic bronchitis and a genetic (father family) tendency to asthma and treatment with honey caps (When the water content is less than18%, workers seal each cell with a cap) helped me get over it completely. Even though my father and his mother both had asthma and got treatment, I never got to asthmatic bronchitis again. It was later found that the caps and the mixture bees produce to seal the honeycomb has antiallergenic properties. Alexandra C

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In news:1134317830.999405.55190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, birdieb

typed: If you have allergy problems you can try a local bee keeper/honey producer. I have had a very bad asthmatic bronchitis and a genetic (father family) tendency to asthma and treatment with honey caps (When the water content is less than18%, workers seal each cell with a cap) helped me get over it completely. Even though my father and his mother both had asthma and got treatment, I never got to asthmatic bronchitis again. It was later found that the caps and the mixture bees produce to seal the honeycomb has antiallergenic properties. Alexandra C

So are you suppost to get the cone and consume it, or just the honey? I’m confused when above you say "…treatment with honey cops…"

Response:

Don, I do have allergies to the outdoor types of mold. For me I have most allergy problems June-Sept when the weather is hot and humid. Last year we had a bad summer for outdoor mold. By monitoring a mold/pollen web site for a town next to mine the outdoor airborne mold levels were highest from May-October which corresponded closely with my symptoms. My allergist wasn’t too keen on the forced hot air as he stated most of his patients with the worst allergies had this type of heat/AC. Of course, I am basing this on conversations we had in the early 90’s when I first went for allergy testing and shots. I’m sure the technology is much better now as 15 years have passed. I’ve seen him since then but haven’t discussed heating/AC with him. For me I now think I would be better with a forced hot air that I could attach very good HEPA filters, AC, humidifiers etc. The big question is can you keep the ducts, AC, humidifier free from mold spores or can they be cleaned effectively? I was just curious if people had lived in houses with both types of heat as I’ve only lived in apartments or houses with either steam heat or forced hot water.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:15:51 -0500, "sedum41"

wrote: Don, I do have allergies to the outdoor types of mold. For me I have most allergy problems June-Sept when the weather is hot and humid. Last year we had a bad summer for outdoor mold. By monitoring a mold/pollen web site for a town next to mine the outdoor airborne mold levels were highest from May-October which corresponded closely with my symptoms. My allergist wasn’t too keen on the forced hot air as he stated most of his patients with the worst allergies had this type of heat/AC. Of course, I am basing this on conversations we had in the early 90’s when I first went for allergy testing and shots. I’m sure the technology is much better now as 15 years have passed. I’ve seen him since then but haven’t discussed heating/AC with him. For me I now think I would be better with a forced hot air that I could attach very good HEPA filters, AC, humidifiers etc. The big question is can you keep the ducts, AC, humidifier free from mold spores or can they be cleaned effectively? I was just curious if people had lived in houses with both types of heat as I’ve only lived in apartments or houses with either steam heat or forced hot water.

Oh I have lived in all of the above but I do not think you will get a conclusive answer. Actually I have both right now (baseboard heaters and central forced air) and switch back and forth. I really cannot stand the forced air except in very cold weather. In mild weather it seems to blow around irritating mold or gasses for whatever reason. My place is really not at all dust and mold free though – things might work better if it were. I like low-temperature baseboard heaters a lot. They are small closed-off radiators. Some authorities recommend them over other solutions.. High temperature heaters cause gasses to be given off from roasting dust. There is no doubt that well-filtered forced air can work well but I do not think it is the only solution. What if the major source of dust is locally-stirred up dust and mold within the individual rooms? Air filtering is not going to get rid of that. In a super-clean house, central filters might work well. But presumably you would have to leave the fan on all the time. Otherwise it would be off all the time if the temperature indoors and ourdoors matched. The windows would have to be closed. I prefer to be able to open the windows selectively. It is just horrendously complicated…..

Response:

Only the cap the bee puts on the cone (and the substance it produces to seal it). The caps are usually thrown away by the producer or used to make house beverages, because they want the honey to be clean of wax when they extract it from the honeycomb.

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My mother used a book written by a Montana doctor called Jarvis. Unfortunately, I gave it to someone who has never returned it. It was about the uses of honey and he gave detailed description of the treatment with honey caps. As I remember (I redo the treatment from time to time) he indicated not to use a metal teaspoon, to chew the waxy caps for about 15 mins and not to drink anything after that for at least 30 mins – this keeps the antiallergic substance in place. I did it approximately 4 times a day, for a month. After the first 10 days the allergy started to subside.

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On 12/13/05 6:57 AM, in article 4085r8F1968n…@individual.net, "Susan" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

wrote: x-no-archive: yes Don Brady wrote: Oh I have lived in all of the above but I do not think you will get a conclusive answer. Actually I have both right now (baseboard heaters and central forced air) and switch back and forth. I really cannot stand the forced air except in very cold weather. In mild weather it seems to blow around irritating mold or gasses for whatever reason. My place is really not at all dust and mold free though – things might work better if it were. I like low-temperature baseboard heaters a lot. They are small closed-off radiators. Some authorities recommend them over other solutions.. High temperature heaters cause gasses to be given off from roasting dust. There is no doubt that well-filtered forced air can work well but I do not think it is the only solution. What if the major source of dust is locally-stirred up dust and mold within the individual rooms? Air filtering is not going to get rid of that. In a super-clean house, central filters might work well. But presumably you would have to leave the fan on all the time. Otherwise it would be off all the time if the temperature indoors and ourdoors matched. The windows would have to be closed. I prefer to be able to open the windows selectively. It is just horrendously complicated….. I should say that my assumption is that someone who’s going to such lengths to choose a system would already be doing what we do in my house, which is keep dust and other air pollutants to a minimum. Before relying on filters, ventilation systems, etc, hygiene has to be in place. I have wood floors with area rugs that have no furniture on top, so they can be hepa vacuumed top and bottom. Dusting is job one, and nothing visible is blowing around my house. Bedding is in allergy barriers, and there’s a big HEPA air cleaner in my bedroom.h As mentioned, it’s been really important to aggressively dust iron radiators with bottle brushes, long felt rods, etc. Susan

I agree, no matter what you do, wall to wall carpets, etc will create dust. We have eliminated these and frankly the only dust is from "self contained" units i.e. The closed display cabinets have dust all the time from deteriorating wood, I suppose. I haven’t heard anything about wallpaper allergy, except that people chewed this for the glue in Leningrad in World War Two. Anyone know about the allergic situation re wallpaper. I think Susan’s suggestion is correct – eliminate the sources of dust – carpets, etc. If you gotta have a rug, use throw rugs that can be washed. More important, its not that critical that the entire house be totally dust proof. Its the bedroom that is most important. An electric heater and a hepa filter may do the job.

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If you have wood floors or wood pannels, cabinets in the bathroom/kitchen that are made of wood, etc… you might want to try a mold specialist. Sometimes the mold is not visible but its spores reach the air and one eventually inhales them. The specialist would check your house for humidity and molds. It isn’t expensive and they usually do a very good job detecting molds. There are also vaccines that can be prepared from the liquids present at the site of the infection/inflammation. I had a friend who had a recurrent infection and she went to do something like this; she called it "desensitivation". I am not in the medical field, so you have to ask a doctor what it is or find a vaccine research company (like "Pasteur" in France). The advantage is that the research lab/unit is usually in a hospital and offers several options for increasing immunity which combined give better results.

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Don, Susan, Dr. Grossan – Thanks for the good discussion, pros and cons to think about. I don’t have any experience with forced hot air so it is good to hear people’s experiences. I agree that keeping the bedroom environment right is the most important thing for people with mold and dust allergies. I’ve done all the things discussed on this group including installing hardwood floors with small area rugs, keeping it clutter and dust free, using all the allergy bedding and covers for pillows, mattresses, running AC in summer and good room humidifier (with UV sterilization of the water) in winter, running a good HEPA filter year round. I know it makes a huge difference because when we travel, I am sometimes bothered with increased symptoms. In any case, I think it is a moot point as my husband and I like very much where we live. I don’t think I could readily convince him to move at this point!

Response:

sedum41 wrote:

I was just wondering what people have for a heating and AC source? I purposely purchased a house with forced hot water due to my allergist’s recommendation. Although in my area now forced hot air, ducts with AC built in is what builders are putting in. Has anyone lived with both types of heating sources (forced hot air vs. forced hot water) and noticed a difference in their sinusitis? Also what about the AC method?

If you live in an apartment, get one on the top floor with the windows facing south. Then if you live in a warm climate like CA you will rarely need the heat. If you are buying a house, make sure its at least 2 story and the bedroom is not on the ground floor, and again preferably bedroom windows facing south. AC should be OK as long as the ducts are clean. If they are new, this should not be a problem. Forced air heat can be a problem regardless, I have found. Radiator is probably better. When it is especially damp like during rainstorms, you can first heat the house up to, say, 80F then set the AC to 70F which should help drive out the humidity – or buy a dehumidifier. Never ever consider an evap cooler. Woody

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On 15 Dec 2005 20:30:59 -0800, "Woody Long"

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

sedum41 wrote: I was just wondering what people have for a heating and AC source? I purposely purchased a house with forced hot water due to my allergist’s recommendation. Although in my area now forced hot air, ducts with AC built in is what builders are putting in. Has anyone lived with both types of heating sources (forced hot air vs. forced hot water) and noticed a difference in their sinusitis? Also what about the AC method? If you live in an apartment, get one on the top floor with the windows facing south. Then if you live in a warm climate like CA you will rarely need the heat. If you are buying a house, make sure its at least 2 story and the bedroom is not on the ground floor, and again preferably bedroom windows facing south. AC should be OK as long as the ducts are clean. If they are new, this should not be a problem. Forced air heat can be a problem regardless, I have found. Radiator is probably better.

Yes low temperature portable heaters may be best. http://www.cadetco.com/show_product.php?prodid=1011 I have 4 of these. However, I find even these irritating if too close – I put them in adjacent rooms. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

When it is especially damp like during rainstorms, you can first heat the house up to, say, 80F then set the AC to 70F which should help drive out the humidity – or buy a dehumidifier. Never ever consider an evap cooler. Woody

Response:

Pillows can harbour harmful fungi

admin — Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"Roman Bystrianyk"

wrote in message

news:1129339427.640263.25520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Pillows can harbour harmful fungi", BBC News, October 14, 2005, Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4339306.stm A small thought to help you sleep when you next get your head down – a study shows the average pillow is home to a host of potentially-harmful fungi. A University of Manchester team found up to 16 types of fungi in pillows they analysed, the Allergy journal reported. Researchers said feather pillows had fewer species than synthetic versions, particularly in the case of a fungus which exacerbates asthma. Experts advise disinfecting pillows but say fungi occur in most environments. The researchers took samples from 10 pillows – five feather and five synthetic – which had been used for between 18 months and 20 years. The fungal spores found in the pillows fed off human skins scales and dust mite faeces. Fungal contamination of bedding was first uncovered by studies carried out in the 1930s, but few studies have been done since then. Researchers found that all 10 pillows had a "substantial fungal load" with between four to 16 different species being identified on each, Allergy reported on its website. The microscopic fungus Aspergillus fumigatus was particularly evident in synthetic pillows. This fungus commonly invades the lungs and sinuses and can worsen asthma. It is also known to cause infection in leukaemia and bone marrow transplant patients. The team also found pillows which contained fungi as diverse as bread and vine moulds. Some also had fungi which would usually be found on damp walls. Lead researcher Professor Ashley Woodcock said the findings showed there was a "miniature ecosystem" operating inside pillows. Sleeping He added: "Since people spend a third of their life sleeping and breathing close to a potentially large and varied source of fungi, these findings certainly have important implications for patients with respiratory disease – especially asthma and sinusitis." Dr Geoffrey Scott, chairman of the Fungal Research Trust, which funded the study, said the findings were interesting. "I think particularly for asthma patients this is relevant. These fungi are found in the environment, so we are exposed to them everywhere. "But I think it is still advisable to disinfect pillows and buy feather ones to help reduce the exposure in the home." A spokesperson for the charity Asthma UK said: "We are aware that patients at the severe end of the spectrum of asthma are more likely to be hypersensitive to fungi than others with asthma. "If you think that fungi could be a trigger for you, you should consult your GP or asthma nurse for advice."

Hello, Found this news source. ANI LONDON: The University of Manchester researchers revealed that there are millions of fungal spores right under our noses, harboured in pillows. According to a study, published in journal Allergy, the researchers dissected both feather and synthetic samples and identified several thousand spores of fungus per gram of used pillow. They studied samples from ten pillows with between 1.5 and 20 years of regular use. Aspergillus fumigatus, the species most commonly found in the pillows, is most likely to cause disease; and the resulting condition Aspergillosis has become the leading infectious cause of death in leukaemia and bone marrow transplant patients. Each pillow was found to contain a substantial fungal load, with four to 16 different species being identified per sample and even higher numbers found in synthetic pillows. The microscopic fungus Aspergillus fumigatus was particularly evident in synthetic pillows, and fungi as diverse as bread and vine moulds and those usually found on damp walls and in showers were also found. "We know that pillows are inhabited by the house dust mite which eats fungi, and one theory is that the fungi are in turn using the house dust mites’ faeces as a major source of nitrogen and nutrition. There could therefore be a ‘miniature ecosystem’ at work inside our pillows," said lead researcher Professor Ashley Woodcock. Aspergillus is very difficult to treat, and as many as 1 in 25 patients who die in modern European teaching hospitals have the disease. Immuno-compromised patients such as transplantation, AIDS and steroid treatment patients are also frequently affected with life-threatening Aspergillus pneumonia and sinusitis. Aspergillus can also worsen asthma, particularly in adults who have had asthma for many years, and cause allergic sinusitis in patients with allergic tendencies. Constant exposure to fungus in bed could be problematic. Fortunately, hospital pillows have plastic covers and so are unlikely to cause problems, but patients being discharged home – where pillows may be old and fungus-infected – could be at risk of infection. "These new findings are potentially of major significance to people with allergic diseases of the lungs and damaged immune systems – especially those being sent home from hospital," said Dr Geoffrey Scott, Chairman of the Fungal Research Trust which funded the study. Since patients spend a third of their life sleeping and breathing close to a potentially large and varied source of fungi, these findings certainly have important implications for patients with respiratory disease – especially asthma and sinusitis, the researchers conclude. take care. beamish.

Response:

In the BBC article Dr Geoffrey Scott, of the Fungal Research Trust, said "I think it is still advisable to disinfect pillows and buy feather ones to help reduce the exposure in the home." But he didn’t say how to disinfect pillows. I’d like to know. I am going out to Ikea tomorrow and buy a feather pillow.

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On 10/17/05 2:20 PM, in article 1129584021.326189.27…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "cardarch"

wrote: In the BBC article Dr Geoffrey Scott, of the Fungal Research Trust, said "I think it is still advisable to disinfect pillows and buy feather ones to help reduce the exposure in the home." But he didn’t say how to disinfect pillows. I’d like to know. I am going out to Ikea tomorrow and buy a feather pillow.

If you have allergies you shouldn’t buy a feather pillow. Plenty of good non allergic pillows are available.

Response:

"cardarch"

writes: In the BBC article Dr Geoffrey Scott, of the Fungal Research Trust, said "I think it is still advisable to disinfect pillows and buy feather ones to help reduce the exposure in the home." But he didn’t say how to disinfect pillows. I’d like to know. I am going out to Ikea tomorrow and buy a feather pillow.

Are you absolutely positively sure that you aren’t allergic to down? I had a virulent allergy to it as a child. I thought the BBC article was pretty bogus actually. Why wouldn’t feather pillows with cotton cases get fungi on them? I can’t believe that the kapok filling of our cheap pillows gets moldy. — Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Predators fail often; prey fail only once. — Tom Evslin

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To kill dust mites, my allergist recommends washing in hot water and using a dust mite laundry additive. May be these will work on molds as well? Also, buy an allergy dust mite cover for your pillows. I use these on my mattresses and pillows and I think they made a big difference to helping me to reduce my dust and dust mite allergy symptoms. They would probably work to keep any mold encased in the pillow. If you don’t mind bleach you could buy a pillow that you can wash in a very mild bleach solution (check the washing instructions tag to be sure).

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On 10/17/05 2:20 PM, in article 1129584021.326189.27…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "cardarch"

I saw those article too – and wondered the same thing. If the pillow is washable – I assume you wash it after soaking it in some water and bleach… but if it’s not washable…. ????

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On 10/17/05 2:20 PM, in article 1129584021.326189.27…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "cardarch"

Why not? According to the article, contrary to popular belief, synthetic pillows contain as many or more allergins… though I guess maybe it depends on what you’re allergic to.

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On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:05:34 -0400, Susan

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

x-no-archive: yes Mars Observer wrote: On 10/17/05 2:20 PM, in article 1129584021.326189.27…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "cardarch"

I wash feather pillows all the time. I do so in a pillow protector, two pillows per load, so they do not get unbalanced. They go into the dryer on no heat for an hour or two with a sneaker bouncing around. I raise the heat gradually, until they are exposed to high heat for at least 20 minutes at the end. Remove the protector out of doors & fluff off the shed feathers. Boron

Response:

Natural Cures Weight Loss Tips

admin — Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Well, you don’t have to order the newsletters or web site access. Putting that aside, I was just asking if anyone went by his Weight Loss Tips CD (which is included free with the book purchase). He gives over 20 tips of which a few I have researched from other sources and seem to be consistent. Some tips are very basic like drinking more filtered water, doing an hour of walking per day, etc. I was just wondering if these tips have worked for anyone. I’m almost half way through the book and there is a lot that makes sense. I.e. Why are we being overwhelmed with pharmaceutical commercials/advertisments? Do we really need a pill for everything? Lots of money at stake.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m currently reading the Natural Cures book by Kevin Trudeau. It’s very interesting and he also included a book on CD for weight loss. He gives over 20 tips to losing weight. Although I only would like to lose a few pounds to trim up, I was wondering if anyone else had an experience with it. I’d like to give that info to others. Thanks, Mike Most people I know that have said they read the book say it’s a scam. He doesn’t actually give you the cures but tells you to go to his site, where you must pay out the nose, to get the cures. I don’t want to do business with a felon like him. Check out this article, it says exactly what you say: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9006287/ “Bates, and other consumers, now say they were had. There are hundreds of angry posts on Amazon.com’s page devoted to "Natural Cures." And about a dozen New York consumers have now contacted the New York State Consumer Protection Board. "The book is just gobbledygook. There’s nothing in it. He doesn’t say what the cures are," Bates said. Instead, Bates said, on page after page the book urges readers to head to Trudeau’s Web site, NaturalCures.com. Consumers must pay $10 a month to use the site. And for those calling the toll free number to purchase the book, operators work hard to tack on a Web site subscription. ” Like you, I do not want to do business with liars. — 223/174.7/180

Response:

Hello, I’m currently reading the Natural Cures book by Kevin Trudeau. It’s very interesting and he also included a book on CD for weight loss. He gives over 20 tips to losing weight. Although I only would like to lose a few pounds to trim up, I was wondering if anyone else had an experience with it. I’d like to give that info to others. Thanks, Mike

Most people I know that have said they read the book say it’s a scam. He doesn’t actually give you the cures but tells you to go to his site, where you must pay out the nose, to get the cures. I don’t want to do business with a felon like him.

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All links in your 2nd link I got "page not found". Are you able to view these cases? I can’t. Maybe he was involved in some questionable activities in the past but his book seems to make sense.

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But eating healthy is very difficult to figure out.

It is not that hard to figure out. Drink plenty of water and eat unprocessed foods.

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I meant that from the stand point of the supermarket. In my store there is a limited supply of organic vegetables and fruits, the meats most likely are pumped up with hormones (there are no organic meats stated) and just about everything else is in a box, can or bag. How can you eat healthy? No easy and that’s what I meant by difficult.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But eating healthy is very difficult to figure out. It is not that hard to figure out. Drink plenty of water and eat unprocessed foods.

Response:

If you can afford it purchase your fruits and veggies from the limited supply of organics. Decrease your consumption of meats and eat more fish. I’ve totally stopped eating beef and pork and eat only fish, poultry, seafood and on occasion, lamb and bison (as my substitute for red meat). A fillet of fish is the perfect portion size for a meal. I’m going to try venison and emu soon. The lamb and bison I get are grassfed and not pumped full of hormones. The store I will be getting my venison and emu from is a health food store and they assure me the meat is hormone free and grassfed. It is a little costly, yes but I am not going in and buying massive quantities of the meat. I’m getting just enough of a portion of each to try it out to see how I will like it. Quit eating things from boxes and bags (except sugarfree frozen fruits and veggies) as those are processed and no good for you anyway. Try to find a Farmer’s market or a local grower and purchase some things from either or both. Find a good health food store. They have sales on healthy foods from time to time. Start your own garden in the warmer months if you can. I do a little container gardening in my backyard because I rent and the landlord will not let me take up a portion of the lawn in my yard to plant a small garden. Also buy Omega 3 eggs if you can. They are only a few cents more then the other eggs in the store and better for you. I’d rather pay the extra cost to have the best ones anyway. It’s not that difficult to eat healthy or as healthy as you *can* afford to……after all, it is your body and you decide what to put into it or not put into it. At first I found eating this way difficult but once I wrapped my brain around it, I found it wasn’t difficult at all. I just had to find a way to remove the roadblocks and I did that.

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I totally understand your feeling based on his history. It does seem sketchy at best. And I’m not here to defend him or his book but just telling you what I understand it as. According to Kevin the scammers are: the FDA, FTC, pharmaceutical companies, government, foundations, doctors (who don’t teach about nutrition, etc.). I try to check other sources and a lot adds up to what he says. He gives lots of examples. As far as his tips, I’d have to listen to the CD and write them down but a few I can think of are: cleansing using distilled water, 64oz filtered water per day after that, eat organic only, processed stuff stay away from, colon cleansing, remove ‘bad’ yeast (candida) from the intestinal tract, walk an hour/day (outside), no pork, 8 hours sleep, reduce stress, positive thoughts. I can’t remember all. There were over 20 tips. He may have had a ‘interesting’ past but I’m trying to take the stuff that seems to make sense. He brings out great points. If the USA is supposed to be so advanced in health/medical why are we the most obese nation. The food industry hooks us in with hormones, processed foods and gets us in a negative state and then the pharmaceutical companies are there with a pill to help (with lots of side affects). They got you (and your money). Eat healthy, exercise and avoid the docs! But eating healthy is very difficult to figure out. There are lots of misleadning info out there. I’ve started to look closer when I go to the supermarket. Unless you live on your own farm, you don’t know what you’re getting. Hope that helps…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, you don’t have to order the newsletters or web site access. Putting that aside, I was just asking if anyone went by his Weight Loss Tips CD (which is included free with the book purchase). He gives over 20 tips of which a few I have researched from other sources and seem to be consistent. Some tips are very basic like drinking more filtered water, doing an hour of walking per day, etc. I was just wondering if these tips have worked for anyone. How about posting these tips? As for walking, I walked for 100 minutes per day when I was losing weight. I’m almost half way through the book and there is a lot that makes sense. I.e. Why are we being overwhelmed with pharmaceutical commercials/advertisments? Do we really need a pill for everything? Lots of money at stake. Well, sure, but pointing out that obvious stuff does not impart him any credibility, as such. Surely, financial interests are powerful motivators and our interests and interests of pharmaceutical companies are not aligned. I cannot see, though, how I can trust a felon and a notorious scammer. i

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Well, so far I’ve looked for a good health food store, organic fruit/vegie store, organic meats and can’t find them in my area. My supermarket does have a few items (fruit/vegie) that are organic but you can’t eat yams every day. Most of the stuff is not. I also get a strange feeling there. The organic yams are right next to the non-organic yams and cost about 30% more. Hmmmm…. I haven’t seen any bison, venison, etc. anywhere. Also, the seafood at the supermarket I bet is mostly, if not all, farm raised and not the best, not to mention quite expensive. We have started purchasing eggs from free roaming hens (expensive). The organic ones are even more $. My wife and I have 3 children so it can be very expensive very quick. Maybe where you are it isn’t that tough but where I am it seems damn difficult. We own our house and I enjoy gardening but that is still limited to a couple months. No room for a greenhouse.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I meant that from the stand point of the supermarket. In my store there is a limited supply of organic vegetables and fruits, the meats most likely are pumped up with hormones (there are no organic meats stated) and just about everything else is in a box, can or bag. How can you eat healthy? No easy and that’s what I meant by difficult. If you can afford it purchase your fruits and veggies from the limited supply of organics. Decrease your consumption of meats and eat more fish. I’ve totally stopped eating beef and pork and eat only fish, poultry, seafood and on occasion, lamb and bison (as my substitute for red meat). A fillet of fish is the perfect portion size for a meal. I’m going to try venison and emu soon. The lamb and bison I get are grassfed and not pumped full of hormones. The store I will be getting my venison and emu from is a health food store and they assure me the meat is hormone free and grassfed. It is a little costly, yes but I am not going in and buying massive quantities of the meat. I’m getting just enough of a portion of each to try it out to see how I will like it. Quit eating things from boxes and bags (except sugarfree frozen fruits and veggies) as those are processed and no good for you anyway. Try to find a Farmer’s market or a local grower and purchase some things from either or both. Find a good health food store. They have sales on healthy foods from time to time. Start your own garden in the warmer months if you can. I do a little container gardening in my backyard because I rent and the landlord will not let me take up a portion of the lawn in my yard to plant a small garden. Also buy Omega 3 eggs if you can. They are only a few cents more then the other eggs in the store and better for you. I’d rather pay the extra cost to have the best ones anyway. It’s not that difficult to eat healthy or as healthy as you *can* afford to……after all, it is your body and you decide what to put into it or not put into it. At first I found eating this way difficult but once I wrapped my brain around it, I found it wasn’t difficult at all. I just had to find a way to remove the roadblocks and I did that.

Response:

I am now spoiled on organic food, and most of my food is now organic. I now consider whatever the cost of organic food is, to be "the cost of food". There is more to organic food than just lack of pesticides. It’s often grown in nutrient rich soil which nourishes the fruit/vegetable. The other stuff tends to be mere lookalikes, IMO. I have to wonder what is wrong with a head of lettuce that I buy (most certainly not picked that very morning) that still doesn’t rot after 3 weeks of storage I especially insist on my apples, cucumbers, celery and grapes being organic, as the commercial counterparts tend to be the most heavily sprayed. According to Gabriel Cousens, who wrote "Conscious Eating", there are a few commercial vegetables and fruits that can be eaten (like melons and avocadoes) because there are the least chemical residues. In a pinch, I will eat them, but when organic is there, I’ll get it. — Disclaimer: Everything authored by me is my own opinion and personal experience, unless otherwise indicated.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, so far I’ve looked for a good health food store, organic fruit/vegie store, organic meats and can’t find them in my area. My supermarket does have a few items (fruit/vegie) that are organic but you can’t eat yams every day. Most of the stuff is not. I also get a strange feeling there. The organic yams are right next to the non-organic yams and cost about 30% more. Hmmmm…. I haven’t seen any bison, venison, etc. anywhere. Also, the seafood at the supermarket I bet is mostly, if not all, farm raised and not the best, not to mention quite expensive. We have started purchasing eggs from free roaming hens (expensive). The organic ones are even more $. My wife and I have 3 children so it can be very expensive very quick. Maybe where you are it isn’t that tough but where I am it seems damn difficult. We own our house and I enjoy gardening but that is still limited to a couple months. No room for a greenhouse.

Are there any farmer’s markets in your area? This is usually a good source of fresh locally grown food. They can also be a good source of finding the Mom & Pop businesses in your area that deal in other items more suitable to a healthy eating plan. We have one in our area that sells everything from produce, fruit, eggs, cheeses, etc. It’s a wonderful place to spend a Saturday morning. Beverly

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I don’t mean this in a negative way but I didn’t get what you mean. I read it twice. Can you put it in another way?

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Veggies and fruits from the regular section or junk in sealed bags. Are they really that much the same? Meat from the butcher section that was raised with hormones or hot dogs with such bizzare ingredients you hadly know if they qualify as vegitarian. Are they really that much the same? Sure, stuff from the organic section is even better still, but thinking brocolli is unhealthy because it comes from the other section, that’s a defeatist attitude. Do you actually switch all the way from organic apples to Capn Crunch? I don’t think so.

Response:

Which you can get from the infomercial without buying the book, check. Consider the cliche: "Never attribute to malice what can be adaquately explained by incompetence." In the case of pharmaceutical companies they produce antibiotics which DO cure bacterial infections. They produce vaccines which DO prevent viral infections. Their research model is to find the infectious agent and fight that agent. If all cancer is caused by assorted viruses, then they will eventually cure all cancers through vaccine prevention. If you can’t find a bacterium, virus or toxin that produces an illness, their research model is not ever going to produce a cure. What’s the best cure for type 2 diabetes? Never get insulin resistance in the first place by never overeating carbs in the first place. Simple, clear-cut, and completely impossible to reproduce with medications. Are these folks scammers because they search for medications rather than searching to remove environmental causes? Or are they just looking in the wrong place because the place they *are* looking has such an excellent track record?

Response:

Sure, stuff from the organic section is even better still, but thinking brocolli is unhealthy because it comes from the other section, that’s a defeatist attitude. Do you actually switch all the way from organic apples to Capn Crunch? I don’t think so.

I haven’t gone organic at all. I am eating alot more fruits and veggies than I used to, and I don’t think they are all "junk food" because they were grown non organically. I really think that focusing on eating a healthier variety of foods has been much more useful to me than worrying that the food might not be produced organically. A cup of bean soup made from non-organic beans is a much better dinner than the big mac and fries I used to eat. As far as the OP, I don’t think I would have anything to do with a known scammer who is pushing a pay site on the internet via a book. He has good tips? Good for him! But good tips on dieting are plentiful on the web. I have ten of them myself on my site at http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/Diettips.html. All absolutely free, no credit card needed! There is no secret to dieting that you have to pay money to get. The information is out there, for free, for anyone to have, if you are willing to simply look for it. — Annie As of 9-30-05: 258/209/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 49 pounds lost. 69 left to go. Started February/07/05 Come visit my weight-loss web site, Annie Takes Off. http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/DietFrontPage.html

Response:

In his words, it’s all about the $. Billions.

At least he is honest. Matthew

Response:

In his words, it’s all about the $. Billions. At least he is honest. Who is honest?

Kevin Trudeau. About it being all about the money, at least. But very dishonest in the final analysis. My post was a lame attempt at humor by turning Trudeau’s charge back at him. Whatever it is he is peddling this time, to call them "cures" is nonsense. Treatments perhaps, but certainly not cures. And to suggest that "natural" is always better than "synthetic" is likewise nonsense. As for the diet tips, I stopped reading after I saw the "cleansing" crap. Matthew

Response:

Definitely eating non-organic fruits/veg are better than a burger and fries. But Kevin’s take on it is that the pesticides/hormones/additives make there way into our bodies and toxify them. Kevin’s CD is for weight loss and is included free with the book. There are tons of books on helath, diets and exercise as well as weight loss centers. Many people shell out lots of money for these so there is a market (a big market). There’s also tons of info on the web but I think to make sense of it all, people turn to books and others for advice. I know his past is questionable but does that mean the guy has nothing to offer? What’s Martha Stewart doing these days??? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure, stuff from the organic section is even better still, but thinking brocolli is unhealthy because it comes from the other section, that’s a defeatist attitude. Do you actually switch all the way from organic apples to Capn Crunch? I don’t think so. I haven’t gone organic at all. I am eating alot more fruits and veggies than I used to, and I don’t think they are all "junk food" because they were grown non organically. I really think that focusing on eating a healthier variety of foods has been much more useful to me than worrying that the food might not be produced organically. A cup of bean soup made from non-organic beans is a much better dinner than the big mac and fries I used to eat. As far as the OP, I don’t think I would have anything to do with a known scammer who is pushing a pay site on the internet via a book. He has good tips? Good for him! But good tips on dieting are plentiful on the web. I have ten of them myself on my site at http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/Diettips.html. All absolutely free, no credit card needed! There is no secret to dieting that you have to pay money to get. The information is out there, for free, for anyone to have, if you are willing to simply look for it. — Annie As of 9-30-05: 258/209/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 49 pounds lost. 69 left to go. Started February/07/05 Come visit my weight-loss web site, Annie Takes Off. http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/DietFrontPage.html

Response:

Hey Iggy, I’ll have to check medline to see what they say about alkalinity but it’s hard to believe if I put garbage in that it doesn’t affect us and our PH. What about the far east? I think their staples are seafood and rice. Does anyone know about their disease rates compared to the USA? Has anyone been taking these seaweed veggie pills? They supposedly help with PH. Yep, I know that there are many conflicts of interest. Maybe I’ve had the cover over my eyes but I thought the FDA was 100% trying to protect all in the USA but now I have other thoughts. There is lots of money out there to influence people. Just one example at the moment. Lotions approved for the skin are noted not to ingest but we know that the skin absorbs these toxins also. Maybe we can put up with a little cancer, is that their thinking? Not sure. I bought a book and nothing else so your sales pitch comment doesn’t fit. Yes, I do try to check other sources but you also have to watch those other sources. I.e. WebMD has ‘articles’ that come from Pharm. companies. I’m sure people miss the little note that it is from an advertiser and take it as knowledge for their better but I think the motives are more $ driven. !!!!!!http://my.webmd.com/content/article/60/67018.htm !!!!!!WebMD also believes that valuable content is available from WebMD sponsors, advertisers, and partners, but that such content must be clearly labeled. I’m not taking any big leaps here (in my eyes) but just trying to make sense of everything in the bettermint of my health and my family’s health. It seems that most here just want to totally discredit Kevin’s book because of his past. To me, that’s like a horse with blinders on. I’ve been giving snippets but there’s a lot more to it. And remember I didn’t come here to get into all of this. I was just trying to see if anyone had an experience with his weight loss tips. Geez….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m half way through the book and I can say it is much more than the 30 minute infomercial. According to Kevin, there are ties from the food industry (processed foods, ingredients that are not even on labels) to the FDA (how come they allow not to list these ingredients that cause us problems?) to the FTC (squashing any small company that has natural products that work in favor of huge profits for the pharm. industry) to the government (which bows to the lobbyists for the food and pharm. industries) to the pharm. industry (which comes up with a pill) to the doctors (who are pushed to give the pill or else). In his words, it’s all about the $. Billions. And a small amount of people who are controlling it. Mike, conficts of interests are everywhere, as is subversion of regulatory agencies by the industries that they are supposed to regulate. Conflicts of interest exist in customer/car mechanic or customer/psychotherapist relationship or client’lawyer relationship etc. As far as antibiotics, I think it is well known they don’t discriminate and kill good and bad bacteria. Of course. The book also talks about getting your body more alkaline than acidic. In this state, diseases/cancer have a much harder time surviving. I’ve seen similar info on various web sites. So, why isn’t the food/medical/pharm. communities really, really telling us? Because there isn’t much profit there. Instead we get plowed into the ground with advertisements (starting at an early age) to eat this and take that pill. I have to say the book brings up a lot of things to think about and has sold over 2 million copies and also is self published. Not an easy feat. I enjoy it and am learning from it. I believe that the alkalinity and acidity talk is extreme bullshit. I read about it a little, some time ago. Basically, our bodies maintain a very fine homeostasis of at least blood alkalinity, it is not something that we can change by, say, food intake. If we eat more acid, we excrete more acid. But our blood’s pH stays unchanged. That’s my understanding and, admittedly, I only spent a short time reading about it, but it made perfect sense. Check out medline, it has many medical articles on any topic. So, I think, we have someone who says things obvious to any realist (that there are conflicts of interest, subversion of regulators etc), and from there takes a not so subtle leap to Kevin’s own bullshit and sales pitches. Be careful to double check whether there is a true logical foundation for these leaps. i I totally understand your feeling based on his history. It does seem sketchy at best. And I’m not here to defend him or his book but just telling you what I understand it as. According to Kevin the scammers are: the FDA, FTC, pharmaceutical companies, government, foundations, doctors (who don’t teach about nutrition, etc.). I try to check other sources and a lot adds up to what he says. He gives lots of examples. Which you can get from the infomercial without buying the book, check. Consider the cliche: "Never attribute to malice what can be adaquately explained by incompetence." In the case of pharmaceutical companies they produce antibiotics which DO cure bacterial infections. They produce vaccines which DO prevent viral infections. Their research model is to find the infectious agent and fight that agent. If all cancer is caused by assorted viruses, then they will eventually cure all cancers through vaccine prevention. If you can’t find a bacterium, virus or toxin that produces an illness, their research model is not ever going to produce a cure. What’s the best cure for type 2 diabetes? Never get insulin resistance in the first place by never overeating carbs in the first place. Simple, clear-cut, and completely impossible to reproduce with medications. Are these folks scammers because they search for medications rather than searching to remove environmental causes? Or are they just looking in the wrong place because the place they *are* looking has such an excellent track record? — 223/174.7/180

Response:

I’m half way through the book and I can say it is much more than the 30 minute infomercial. According to Kevin, there are ties from the food industry (processed foods, ingredients that are not even on labels) to the FDA (how come they allow not to list these ingredients that cause us problems?) to the FTC (squashing any small company that has natural products that work in favor of huge profits for the pharm. industry) to the government (which bows to the lobbyists for the food and pharm. industries) to the pharm. industry (which comes up with a pill) to the doctors (who are pushed to give the pill or else). In his words, it’s all about the $. Billions. And a small amount of people who are controlling it. As far as antibiotics, I think it is well known they don’t discriminate and kill good and bad bacteria. The book also talks about getting your body more alkaline than acidic. In this state, diseases/cancer have a much harder time surviving. I’ve seen similar info on various web sites. So, why isn’t the food/medical/pharm. communities really, really telling us? Because there isn’t much profit there. Instead we get plowed into the ground with advertisements (starting at an early age) to eat this and take that pill. I have to say the book brings up a lot of things to think about and has sold over 2 million copies and also is self published. Not an easy feat. I enjoy it and am learning from it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally understand your feeling based on his history. It does seem sketchy at best. And I’m not here to defend him or his book but just telling you what I understand it as. According to Kevin the scammers are: the FDA, FTC, pharmaceutical companies, government, foundations, doctors (who don’t teach about nutrition, etc.). I try to check other sources and a lot adds up to what he says. He gives lots of examples. Which you can get from the infomercial without buying the book, check. Consider the cliche: "Never attribute to malice what can be adaquately explained by incompetence." In the case of pharmaceutical companies they produce antibiotics which DO cure bacterial infections. They produce vaccines which DO prevent viral infections. Their research model is to find the infectious agent and fight that agent. If all cancer is caused by assorted viruses, then they will eventually cure all cancers through vaccine prevention. If you can’t find a bacterium, virus or toxin that produces an illness, their research model is not ever going to produce a cure. What’s the best cure for type 2 diabetes? Never get insulin resistance in the first place by never overeating carbs in the first place. Simple, clear-cut, and completely impossible to reproduce with medications. Are these folks scammers because they search for medications rather than searching to remove environmental causes? Or are they just looking in the wrong place because the place they *are* looking has such an excellent track record?

Response:

I know his past is questionable but does that mean the guy has nothing to offer?

Personally I think he is a slimeball. What’s Martha Stewart doing these days???

She has 2 new shows (I just finished watching today’s live episode of Martha) and is doing very well

Response:

My supermarket does have a few items (fruit/vegie) that are organic but you can’t eat yams every day.

I eat a baked yam every day. I do not eat potatoes because they are a member of the nightshade family so yams make a good substitute for me. The organic yams are right next to the non-organic yams and cost about 30% more. Hmmmm….

Organic produce does cost a little more but since I no longer eat processed food I figure I am well worth the extra expenditure. I haven’t seen any bison, venison, etc. anywhere. Also, the seafood at the supermarket I bet is mostly, if not all, farm raised and not the best, not to mention quite expensive.

Even if it is farm raised it is better to eat then wolfing down poptarts and you can buy it when it is on sale. We have started purchasing eggs from free roaming hens (expensive). The organic ones are even more $.

Now that I do not understand,why they would cost more, because the hens are getting whatever bugs and insects they eat from the ground in addition to thier feed. You would think this would make them cheaper. I’ve had eggs from free roaming hens only a couple of times in my life. They were brought to me from an old boyfriend when he was in the ‘honeymoon stage’ of our relationship. The eggs tasted so much better then the ones I purchase at the store but the omega 3 eggs were the closest I found in taste. Even the yolks are almost similiar in colour. I miss those eggs. LOL. My wife and I have 3 children so it can be very expensive very quick. Maybe where you are it isn’t that tough but where I am it seems damn difficult.

I’m in Hamilton, Ontario and I have it tough too. I’m cureently on disability and feeding 3 others as well as myself on that one income. It doesn’t leave a whole lot left for luxuries. We own our house and I enjoy gardening but that is still limited to a couple months. No room for a greenhouse.

Same here. My growing season is from mid-May to the first frost.

Response:

In other words if you want to avoid nightshades you would need to avoid sweet-potato/yams as well.

That isn’t what my nutritionist told me. She suggested them as a substitute for potatoes and they give me no arthritis pain. On the other hand they are lower carb count and lower glycemic load than starchy white potatoes.

This is true but I am not on a low carb diet anymore. I simply limit my intake of good carbs on a daily basis. Space costs. Factory chickens are grown in cages that go up level after level like high-rise condos. Free range chickens can only be grown on one level. The difference in land more than makes up for the cost of grain feed versus free bugs.

But after the farmer owning that land for a number of years should bring the cost of the eggs down, one would assume.

Response:

I have to say that I really didn’t expect all these responses. It’s been an interesting thread. Good health to all!

Response:

My supermarket does have a few items (fruit/vegie) that are organic but you can’t eat yams every day. I eat a baked yam every day. I do not eat potatoes because they are a member of the nightshade family so yams make a good substitute for me.

It is my understanding that yams and sweet potatos are different breeds of the same species in North American stores and that true yams are a different vegitable that is only available in tropical climates. Apparently they are 10+ kilos each for the real thing. In other words if you want to avoid nightshades you would need to avoid sweet-potato/yams as well. On the other hand they are lower carb count and lower glycemic load than starchy white potatoes. We have started purchasing eggs from free roaming hens (expensive). The organic ones are even more $. Now that I do not understand,why they would cost more, because the hens are getting whatever bugs and insects they eat from the ground in addition to thier feed. You would think this would make them cheaper.

Space costs. Factory chickens are grown in cages that go up level after level like high-rise condos. Free range chickens can only be grown on one level. The difference in land more than makes up for the cost of grain feed versus free bugs.

Response:

Question to long-time sufferers

admin — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

In my experience with psychiatrists, they want only to change one drug at a time, and if you don’t play ball with them, they may coerce you or offer a "compromise" that totally may be against what you want to do. At least that’s how things are with my new pdoc. I went to the old one with my mother usually, and he worked pretty well with me. Hopefully, this "new" one will as well. I’d really like to look further into taking Abilify. BB On 20 Sep 2005 05:43:27 -0700, "Luke Flyswatter"

wrote: Abilify has hardly any side effects. It’s worth a try. Although I’ve read on this group that getting off Geodon is a bitch. You might try a small dose of an old anti-psych with geodon. That might keep the delusions down. I get delusions when I take benadryl and stay up. Maybe it’s the sleepy factor.

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Response:

Schizophrenia is an illness…like any other they say Some fundamentalists may suggest that it is the work of Satan, and while it may be, it’s still an illness…like any other they say. Buther Boy On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:38:55 +0000 (UTC), "Jamie Moroney"

wrote: What are these delusions you speak of, i’m still on a 90/10 belief that what i see is real, there is a 10% doubt though that they may be delusions cos the whole world can’t be satanic, or can it? The book of Revelations says it can, so if it is then there will be a lot of weird demonic activity messing with the minds of the innocent. Thats my personal belief anyway.

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Response:

I take haldol and geodon. Just had my ekg today though. My doc said it was okay.

Response:

"Michael A. Pereira"

wrote in message

news:9045-432FECDD-1162@storefull-3135.bay.webtv.net…

| Theoretically, and from my experience, you can use your symptoms and | cash in on them; but to a Christian that’s like selling your soul to the | "devil". Devil? I thought I was Satan, and remembered it. | | | http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe | I like that ending you always have something interesting added in your posts I tend to think you get sympathy from your label rather coz I rarely have symptoms unless the needle freaks they hell out of me. I like your separate reality and dreaming tonight also I was just typing some notes up out a book about that just before or morning should I say. I got post arriving in a few hours nightmare. might as well stay awake now looks like I got another 500meg of blasting tunes to download from bangingtunes.com so I’ll do that now. just really feel that I should say as I never spoke to you before that I used an old post of yours from 16-Jul-2004 put it at the top of this page. I’m sure you wont mind as Usenet is public domain anyway. I hope you don’t mind coz I would like to keep it there. http://matthewlan.com/FileMenu/HTML/quotes_an_stuff.html Thanks everyone passed the 1000 in a month mark already on the double words with your help and the media. Total # 2539 This Month # 1053 Got some new photos scanned on tonight http://matthewlan.com/Photos_Scanned_Photo’s.htm If like a lift check me out 3 days into my first stay on a ward 1 could be dodge they didn’t like the camera after those I had to have it taken out by one of my outside visitors they got strict rules for mobile cams now but they weren’t expecting me with that then. as was in 1997 the last photo looks as if I’m more aware but also my hair is more scruffy so it was just one of those days that’s how I judged what order they were in. they were actually taken 1 day at a time. there wasn’t someone behind the lens it was timered. see ya

Response:

The Merck Manual says that Benedryl is the antidote for Thorazine and antipsychotic drug poisoning. Apparently it removes the blocking antipsychotic drugs from the dopamine receptor sites. I don’t think I have a dopamine problem. I probably have Korsakov’s Syndrome from a life of alcoholism. But THEY’d rather call anybody Skizz. It’s worse than even being called a drunk. http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe

Response:

Abilify has hardly any side effects. It’s worth a try. Although I’ve read on this group that getting off Geodon is a bitch. You might try a small dose of an old anti-psych with geodon. That might keep the delusions down. I get delusions when I take benadryl and stay up. Maybe it’s the sleepy factor.

Response:

After reading reports in this group for years, I believe that each person is quite different, and that the meds have to be tried one by one (or two) until they find what works for them personally. I get by with .5 mg of Risperdal. Maybe I’m lucky. "Buther Boy"

wrote in message

news:qbfvi1d8dr5ihjchddcdutmj20ovdhob82@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have for so very long, probably about a year, been suffering with persistent delusions and paranoia. Mostly delusions. It happens when I watch movies, surf the Internet, in conversation with people I know and don’t know, and doesn’t seem to come to a halt long enough to put me in the functioning-better-with- medication category; or am I supposed to feel all of this and function this way? I take the maximum does of Geodon among "other prescribed things." No drugs, no alcohol. Anyway, should I try for something different? Is what I’m feeling normal for my condition? The only other thing I can think of trying medication-wise is Abilify…I’ve tried everything else. Thanks. Buther Boy — Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

Response:

What are these delusions you speak of, i’m still on a 90/10 belief that what i see is real, there is a 10% doubt though that they may be delusions cos the whole world can’t be satanic, or can it? The book of Revelations says it can, so if it is then there will be a lot of weird demonic activity messing with the minds of the innocent. Thats my personal belief anyway.

Response:

hello Buther Boy I am on geodon also and I have delusions and voices also. I’ve had delusions on all the medications. It is my belief that medications only do so much, they are not miracle cures. I have a similiar problem with movies and tv. By the way, acoording to Surviving Schizophrenia by E. Fuller Torrey, you can’t mix an older medication with geodon (ziprasidone) due to potential heart arrythmias. My psychologist keeps saying that you need less medication as you get older, so that gives me hope. penguin

Response:

I know something about that book as I’ve read bits and pieces of it. Yeah, that guy is controversial, but I know he does much for the mentally ill. He has a web site called psychlaws.com that sends out an email newsletter once a week on information regarding the work that’s being done around the U.S. to help persons with mental illness. Anyway, the point I want to make, is that all of this suffering is needless, it’s pointless, and it’s really too damn bad. I would have thought the newer atypicals would have gotten it right, but did you know that most of "them" and most of "every" antipsychotic were created 15 years before the "official" release of the drug. So, drugs that come out five years from now, say 2010, will have been created in 1995…totally f–ked up, and totally too bad for us! Buther Boy On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:32:15 -0700, kol…@webtv.net (Penguin A) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

hello Buther Boy I am on geodon also and I have delusions and voices also. I’ve had delusions on all the medications. It is my belief that medications only do so much, they are not miracle cures. I have a similiar problem with movies and tv. By the way, acoording to Surviving Schizophrenia by E. Fuller Torrey, you can’t mix an older medication with geodon (ziprasidone) due to potential heart arrythmias. My psychologist keeps saying that you need less medication as you get older, so that gives me hope. penguin

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Response:

I have for so very long, probably about a year, been suffering with persistent delusions and paranoia. Mostly delusions. It happens when I watch movies, surf the Internet, in conversation with people I know and don’t know, and doesn’t seem to come to a halt long enough to put me in the functioning-better-with- medication category; or am I supposed to feel all of this and function this way? I take the maximum does of Geodon among "other prescribed things." No drugs, no alcohol. Anyway, should I try for something different? Is what I’m feeling normal for my condition? The only other thing I can think of trying medication-wise is Abilify…I’ve tried everything else. Thanks. Buther Boy — Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

Response:

God gave everybody freedom of choice. I have only been a Christian for six years. Before then I thought I had worked hard for the "occult" abilities I gained, which are considered symptoms of schizophrenia. I read about a Japanesse technique called "Raicone" where you write a letter to a deceased person asking them for anything you want, and if it is within their abiity they will see to it that you get it. Among other things, I wrote a letter to my decease grandmother, who was deeply into the occult herself, to give me the ability to hear my enemies planning against me. Good strategy. From that day on I was able to hear my enemies talking about me. It’s so real I have to look up some of their words in the dictionary. How could my subconcious mind concoct sentences in proper context with words I don’t know? It’s upseting at times but I have to know what THEY plan next. When I was a little kid I had bad asthma, so, my parents sent me to the yoga teacher across the street. She first taught me the asanas and pranayama for my asthma. I really enjoyed it, for obvious reasons. I continued practicing yoga for a half a century, plus learning many other occult techniques of withchcraft, alchemy and sorcery, I developed "powers". I can project my mind into the most secret meetings, any where in the word, and not only hear, but also see the partcipants, and their graphs and charts. But, it could be on any timeline. I have multiple screens of vision which I can impose on my natural vision. But, in this way I can be looking right at something "real" and not see it. It seems that if I don’t "believe" in it I can’t see it. If I didn’t get Shamans’ Disease from being stabbed through the heart in my sleep by a woman on "antipsychotic" drugs, which caused her to be unable to distinguish dreams from reality, I probably caused it myself, and had a little "assistance" in causing it at our Sabbats. That’s all taboo now as a Christian. I made as much as $500 an hour as a professional psychic, boosted my gross worth to a half million dollars, got wiped out financially by divorce, and now I can’t use the occult to get "milk money". But, I perceive what I perceive, and all my senses are mixed in a condition called "synesthesia", which is not considered a disease or mental illness. The Synesthesia Society claims that people like Leonardo Da Vinci and Isaac Newton had synesthesia. Dopamine blockers not only don’t diminish my perceptions, but, by depriving me of deep sleep or full wakefullness I also soon fail to distinguish dream from reality. Fortunately I’m not violent. I have one "bumblebee on wheels’ for a doctor, Dr. Beverly Greenwald (let the "perra" try to sue me) now, who I’m trying to get out of my life with a radionic machine, which changes timelines for you, who is trying to force me on dopamine blockers. It’s not withchcraft, alchemy or sorcery, it’s solid quantum mechanics. Dopamine only puts some rewarding feelings in life. Dopamine blockers are used primarily to disable "undesirables" with a nonaddictive drug. Antipsychotic drugs just make you feel miserable. Theoretically, and from my experience, you can use your symptoms and cash in on them; but to a Christian that’s like selling your soul to the "devil". Devil? I thought I was Satan, and remembered it. http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe

Response:

Be prepared for Flu

admin — Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4268964.stm — Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Predators fail often; prey fail only once. — Tom Evslin

Response:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/21/health/21cnd-bird.html?ex=128495520… — Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Predators fail often; prey fail only once. — Tom Evslin

Response:

sedum41 wrote:

I religiously wash my hands with hot soapy water for several minutes after I go in public. I use hand santizers when I can’t get to wash my hands right away. I wear white cotten gloves or winter gloves when I do have to go to a store. Wash these gloves regularily. If going to a doctor’s office in winter, don’t touch anything in the office (not the magazines, newspapers, chair handles). Bring your own book or magazine to read. Again wash hands throughly after leaving there. Don’t touch your face, eyes, mouth. If a family member has the flu, have them us their own hand towels in the bathroom.

No, handwashing doesn’t prevent the flu as well as it can prevent the common cold. Perhaps you were only exposed to very bad cold viruses, not true influenza? From the studies I’ve seen, unlike the common cold, influenza is spread mostly by *small* droplet infection, not *large* droplet infection. Small droplets linger in the air for a long time and you get infected by inhaling those droplets. Many (though not all) strains of the common cold seem to be carried by *large* droplet infection. Large droplets tend to settle out of the air quickly and fall on environmental surfaces (or get sneezed or coughed onto an environmental surface). That’s why it’s easier to catch the common cold by touching your contaminated hands to your nose or eyes than by breathing in the germs. A better strategy to minimize exposure to the flu is fresh air. Even in winter, when temperatures are below freezing outdoors, I *always* keep a window open at least a crack. The higher heating bill is a small price to pay. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

I luckily have never had the flu. I’ve only gotten the flu shot once in my life so I have relied on other means to prevent it. I think most people can avoid the flu with common sense approaches. During flu season I avoid heavily traveled stores (think discount and big). Too many people, kids, stores are hot, germs on the shopping cart handles and at the check out counter. I religiously wash my hands with hot soapy water for several minutes after I go in public. I use hand santizers when I can’t get to wash my hands right away. I wear white cotten gloves or winter gloves when I do have to go to a store. Wash these gloves regularily. If going to a doctor’s office in winter, don’t touch anything in the office (not the magazines, newspapers, chair handles). Bring your own book or magazine to read. Again wash hands throughly after leaving there. Don’t touch your face, eyes, mouth. If a family member has the flu, have them us their own hand towels in the bathroom. I know what I’ve written sounds paranoid and a little obsessive compulsive but it has worked for me! PS Yes the bird flu is scary but I can’t panic about something that I have no control over.

Response:

"Don Brady"

wrote in message

news:3adui1dh1ukc87mffidj4ulqjbssjqov6j@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On 19 Sep 2005 08:26:49 -0700, "00doc" <00…@comcast.net wrote: That was an excellent post. However, just to comment broiefly on one point: To my knowledge none of the agents has been shown to be more effective than any of the others. I can’t imagine there has been enough human disease for anyone to be experienced enough to really know. The main advantage of Tamiflu is that it covers type B, which is not an issue in this case. It is much more expensive that the other pills which makes me wonder about the motivation of these people selling it. News accounts do say: "Oseltamivir, known commercially as Tamiflu, is the only treatment proven to be effective against bird flu in humans."

You do have a point but the above is not true either. Nothing has been proved effective in humans. There have simply not been enough cases and most of the cases that have been detected have been in farmers in rural asia who did not recieve effective antivirals of any kind early enough to expect to make a real difference. In laboratory experiments Tamiflu has been shown to be effective in mice while some of the strains tested have been resistant to amantadine and rimantadine. BTW – there is another neuraminidase inhibitor on the market (Relenza) but it is even more expensive, is inhaled, and has been known to cause bronchospasm so it is relatively contraindicated in people with lung disease (like asthma).

and the U.S. governmenti is reported today to be placing a one billion dollar order for a stockpile of the drug. I have to think that they would buy one of the cheaper anivirals if they thought that they were as effective and safe..

I’m sure the lab data has a lot to do with it – although like I said, no one really knows what effect the drugs will have. Parital effectiveness may be enough to slow down the spread and turn a fatal disease into a severe but survivable one. On a related note(s): The government says it is planning to stockpile 20 million doses of Tamiflu and 20 million doses of the newly developed vaccine. The reality is that they have only ordered 450,000 doses of vaccine so there seems to be some kind of disconnect there. Strong antibody responses have been obtained in humans but since no vaccinated person has ever been exposed to the virus no one knows how effective it might be. The problem is that stockpiled vaccine will not likely be an exact match for whatever strian emerges so the immunity will likely only be partial. Many models of spread suggest that 120,000 courses of treatment will probably be enough to quell an outbreak. Of course, this assumes the assumptions regarding the behavior of the virus are correct, that the governments respond apprpriately within 2-3 weeks of detection, and that it occurs in relatively rural south east asia and not Kuala Lampur, Bangkok, or Los Angeles. Since the virus has been found in migratory waterfowl that may not show symptoms I’m especially not optomistic about the last assumption. — 00doc

Response:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:42:15 GMT, "mcs"

wrote: so without going to drugstore.com, , is that a reliable vendor?

I tihnk they are reliable. Ther are others that are a bit cheaper but they are mostly Canadian etc.

Is paying 600 dollars something people are doing?

Most people probably just o rder one ($66) but soem are ordering several at least.,

Will they get good product as opposed to counterfeit?

No counterfeiting of Tamiflu has been reported to date. It comes in a blister pack and packaging that wouldot be easy to counterfeit. Really if you buy from a pharmacist in the U.S, or Canada or Germany your exposure to counterfeiting is minimal.

Response:

I had a sinus infection last year and I got a Nurse P. I asked her if I could get the Flu shot there, she said as I was under my doctors care for heart problems (stroke 10 years a ago) that I could get it. So I went back after I felt better and got the flu shot in November. shirley

Response:

so without going to drugstore.com, , is that a reliable vendor? Is paying 600 dollars something people are doing? Will they get good product as opposed to counterfeit? "Don Brady"

wrote in message

news:o1esi1tdtqt9bktvqqoannlmoebrn72uk7@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:51:48 GMT, Alison Chaiken

Response:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:31:32 -0400, Don Brady

wrote: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:42:15 GMT, "mcs"

Actually the others are *much* cheaper for larger quantities.

Response:

There are two broad types of influenza (with many subtypes each – hence the reformulated vaccine every year) A and B. All the available meds are active against type A flu’s but most flu medications do not cover type B; which is not so bad because almost all flu that goes around each year is type A. The Avian flu’s that have been detected are type A. The vaccine usually contains three strains – two A’s and one B. The fear of a pandemic is because the avian flu has the "H5" subtype which is similar to the pandemic strain if 1918 and has had a high fatality rate in the few humans who have gotten it. The good news is that there has been little to no human to human transmission so far. The bad news is that that capability may just be a mutation or two away. The estimates I have seen usually suggets more like a 20% mortality rate (which could still be a disaster of Biblical proportions) but I think at this point they are all just guessing. To answer Alison’s question: Presumably if a pandemic hit the people who are stockpiling the meds would want to use it prophylactally - taking one pill daily to keep the flu away – rather than just keep it around for treatment. In that case 100 pills may not be enough. To my knowledge none of the agents has been shown to be more effective than any of the others. I can’t imagine there has been enough human disease for anyone to be experienced enough to really know. The main advantage of Tamiflu is that it covers type B, which is not an issue in this case. It is much more expensive that the other pills which makes me wonder about the motivation of these people selling it. Amantidine does have more side effects, particularly in the elderly (mostly neuropsychiatric). Rimatidine would be a good compromise on effectiveness, cost, and side effects. One should keep in mind that while the vaccine is a biological that must be grown in culture and so production cannot easily be started or increased this is not true of the meds we are discussing. Considering that there are four different meds available (in the US), that two of them are out as generics and so have several manufacturers, and that as non-biological agents production can be increased relatively easily I think the risk of not having enough meds to treat the high risk groups at least is small. The bigger risk is that there will not be a vaccine and the meds will not be as effective as we would like.

Response:

On 19 Sep 2005 08:26:49 -0700, "00doc" <00…@comcast.net

wrote:

That was an excellent post. However, just to comment broiefly on one point:

To my knowledge none of the agents has been shown to be more effective than any of the others. I can’t imagine there has been enough human disease for anyone to be experienced enough to really know. The main advantage of Tamiflu is that it covers type B, which is not an issue in this case. It is much more expensive that the other pills which makes me wonder about the motivation of these people selling it.

News accounts do say: "Oseltamivir, known commercially as Tamiflu, is the only treatment proven to be effective against bird flu in humans." (AP 8/27/05) and the U.S. governmenti is reported today to be placing a one billion dollar order for a stockpile of the drug. I have to think that they would buy one of the cheaper anivirals if they thought that they were as effective and safe..

Response:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:28:34 -0700, "SJF"

wrote: My layman’s reading, Google and a product information slip which accompanied an old prescription, is that there are several other antivirals on the market which have similar effects on influenza A viruses. None have actually been demonstrated effective on bird flu but perhaps they may be presumed to be effective against that influenza A virus. Checking Drugstore.com, I note that the price for Tamiflu is about $600 for 100, for Amantadine (patent has long since expired) it is about $30 for 100. There may be some differences in dosage and effectiveness (the latter apparently not established) but it makes one wonder if there has been some drug industry inspired hype to promote another me-to product. It wouldn’t be the first time. SJF

Amantadine and Relenza are promising against Bird flu too. Amantadine is indeed much cheaper. According to http://www.recombinomics.com/News/09170502/Tamiflu_Amantadine_Prevent…

The emphasis on Tamiflu is due to the fact that the H5N1 isolated from patients in Vietnam and Thailand was amantadine resistant, so the only class of antivirals available was the neuramindase inhibitors, and only Tamiflu was readily available.

Amantadine may have more side effects. Someone said that but I am not sure if it is true. Many people are ordering Anantadine too. I will do that also, The best thing may be a combo of the two, in the event someone does come down with bird flu (at which point odds of living are only 50-50). They work on different principle and so can complement each other.

Response:

What might you gentlemen all consider best, maybe the Titanic revisited, mothers and children first, younger able bodied people say up to 30 next, and the rest might be most interesting. Noah calls the shots! And the Tamiflu stuff still remains in the maybe category! What is the bet the political boys would get a boat!! What is the bet the Tamiflu stuff is really being counterfeited with great gusto! I was under the impression that India was one of the major sources for bogus drugs. Merlin.

Response:

"SJF"

writes: Checking Drugstore.com, I note that the price for Tamiflu is about $600 for 100,

Roche’s website (www.rocheusa.com/programs/TamifluChain2002.pdf) says that the shelf life of Tamiflu is 3 years. I’m not sure how many doses a patient might take per day, but 100 sounds like a lot given that the maximum extent of flu is 2 weeks in my experience. — Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid. (650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ Predators fail often; prey fail only once. — Tom Evslin

Response:

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:51:48 GMT, Alison Chaiken

wrote: Roche’s website (www.rocheusa.com/programs/TamifluChain2002.pdf) says that the shelf life of Tamiflu is 3 years. I’m not sure how many doses a patient might take per day, but 100 sounds like a lot given that the maximum extent of flu is 2 weeks in my experience.

The recommended dose to treat flu in general is 2 per day for 5 days, for a total of 10. It seems from experimental data that longer (and maybe a higher dose) would be better for bird flu. But you can also take it during the "flu season" to prevent flu. It is approved also for that purpose. For that purpose, the recommended dose is one per day.. Some authors have advised planning on taking it throughout each of the posited 3 waves of a possible pandemic. That could take you to about 100.

Response:

"Don Brady"

wrote in message

news:ncnpi1d7bjodm2p8rqeu0t07pmvihr9g41@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

There could be a Bird Flu pandemic if it leaps to the human species, as many epidemiologists are predicting (Or it could be some other kind of flu). It may have a 40% death rate. If you start to come down with any kind of flu, take Tamiflu immediately. It is almost the only drug that can be used. It can also prevent flu (in many cases) if you start taking it when and if a pandemic hits. (Don’t take it until then though). Many countries are now ordering large stockpiles of Tamiflu. Odds are that if there is a pandemic, you will not be able to get it unless you are in a priority category. So many people are getting a stock in advance now. That includes me. I just ordered some from http://www.pharmaenergy.com/drugs/influenza/ . That may be technically illegal for U.S. residents but small personal imports are tolerated. That company will arrange for a German doctor to write you a prescription, included in the price. That is almost the only (so far) reliable company that will still do that for Tamiflu – I have searched far and wide and read discussion groups that share experiences on this topic). Other alternatives include your local doctor and pharmacy (at a higher price probably), or the Canadian Internet You have been warned…… (I have no connection to these products or companies – I just dread the effect that a flu epidemic would have on sinus and asthma sufferers).

My layman’s reading, Google and a product information slip which accompanied an old prescription, is that there are several other antivirals on the market which have similar effects on influenza A viruses. None have actually been demonstrated effective on bird flu but perhaps they may be presumed to be effective against that influenza A virus. Checking Drugstore.com, I note that the price for Tamiflu is about $600 for 100, for Amantadine (patent has long since expired) it is about $30 for 100. There may be some differences in dosage and effectiveness (the latter apparently not established) but it makes one wonder if there has been some drug industry inspired hype to promote another me-to product. It wouldn’t be the first time. SJF

Response:

On 18 Sep 2005 00:06:02 -0700, "Merlin"

wrote: G’day Don, yes this raises another really interesting situation where there are so many bogus laboratories producing packaged drugs which are in fact completely counterfeit and commonly have no active ingredients at all. One interesting case was where a yank medical surgical team were involved in a South African country as volunteer doctors, the surgical operations went well but the patients started dying. When it was discovered the drugs used in the hospital were counterfiet the team packed up and went home. So things may not be as they seem with these bogus drugs.

It is indeed a possibility in general but I believe that the source I mentioned is ok at this time. See the discussions at http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20275 .

My advice was that there was no known effective drug available at this time for this kind of flu. Are you quite sure your information is correct.

Yes, see http://www.recombinomics.com/News/09160501/Tamiflu_Primetime.html and the ABC News article at http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Investigation/story?id=1130392&page=1 and many other news stories.

Response:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 06:06:28 -0400, brewc…@webtv.net (shirley brewer) wrote:

Don is Tamiflu just for young people?

No it is used to treat people of any age who catch the flu. It can also be used to prevent severe flu for those who cannot be vaccinated.

They were recommending a nasal mist last year but it was not for people over 65.

In fact, they will not give the nasal mist to anyone over 50. People over 50 but under 65 could not get *any* flu vaccine last year until late in the season when demand died off. Some people in their 50’s lied and said they were under 50 in order to get the nasal mist. The nasal mist was always in plentiful supply (and is actually fine for those over 50 if you look at the research or talk to the company, as I did). We are in excatly the same situation this year. Flu shots start Oct. 1 for those over 65 or with certain chronic health conditions (sinusitis alone not included, but asthma is). The restrictions are supposed to be loosened Oct. 24th if supply and demand warrant.

Response:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:29:57 GMT, "Steven L."

wrote:

But it’s precisely because I have asthma that I am in a priority category. Remember the flu shot shortage last fall? When I told The Powers That Be that I had asthma (and showed them a confirming note from my asthma specialist), they fast-tracked me right to the top of the flu shot list and I got my shot immediately. In fact, I got my flu shot ahead of 80 year old men and women.

Yes asthma sufferers were in the priority category for flu shots last year, and are again this year. (People who do not have asthma, such as myself, are not). But if there is a flu pandemic, there may or may not be enough Tamiflu at that time to include them all. http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Investigation/story?id=1130392&page=3

While there is no vaccine to stop the flu, there is one medicine to treat it. Called Tamiflu, it is made by the Roche pharmaceutical company in Switzerland. Roche has been selling Tamiflu for years. Only recently, however, did scientists learn of its potential to work against the killer flu, H5N1. That has since created a huge demand and a critical shortage. "All of the wealthiest countries in the world are trying to purchase stockpiles of Tamiflu," says Garrett. "Our current stockpile is around 2.5 million courses of treatment." According to Leavitt, that is a long way from the country’s ideal stockpile. "Our objective is to have 20 million doses of Tamiflu or enough for 20 million people," he says. He later admitted that only 2 million are currently on hand, but asserted that no other country is in a better position.

The government calculationa are also way over-optimistic – see http://www.recombinomics.com/News/09160501/Tamiflu_Primetime.html Also for prophylactic use (to prevent or mitigate the severity of the flu before you get it) after a pandemic starts, you are not going to be able to get it once a shortage develops (which cold be imminent).

Response:

Merlin wrote:

G’day Don, yes this raises another really interesting situation where there are so many bogus laboratories producing packaged drugs which are in fact completely counterfeit and commonly have no active ingredients at all.

"Frontline" did an episode on Chinese counterfeits. The Chinese are counterfeiting just about everything manufactured in the West, from designer-name golf clubs to pharmaceuticals, and that stuff has spread onto international websites. And of course, the Chinese counterfeit drugs are often worthless, containing no active ingredients. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Don Brady wrote:

There could be a Bird Flu pandemic if it leaps to the human species, as many epidemiologists are predicting (Or it could be some other kind of flu). It may have a 40% death rate. If you start to come down with any kind of flu, take Tamiflu immediately. It is almost the only drug that can be used. It can also prevent flu (in many cases) if you start taking it when and if a pandemic hits. (Don’t take it until then though). Many countries are now ordering large stockpiles of Tamiflu. Odds are that if there is a pandemic, you will not be able to get it unless you are in a priority category…. . . . . (I have no connection to these products or companies – I just dread the effect that a flu epidemic would have on sinus and asthma sufferers).

But it’s precisely because I have asthma that I am in a priority category. Remember the flu shot shortage last fall? When I told The Powers That Be that I had asthma (and showed them a confirming note from my asthma specialist), they fast-tracked me right to the top of the flu shot list and I got my shot immediately. In fact, I got my flu shot ahead of 80 year old men and women. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

Don is Tamiflu just for young people? They were recommending a nasal mist last year but it was not for people over 65. shirley

Response:

"Merlin"

wrote in message

news:1127027161.979079.193720@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

G’day Don, yes this raises another really interesting situation where there are so many bogus laboratories producing packaged drugs which are in fact completely counterfeit and commonly have no active ingredients at all. One interesting case was where a yank medical surgical team were involved in a South African country as volunteer doctors, the surgical operations went well but the patients started dying. When it was discovered the drugs used in the hospital were counterfiet the team packed up and went home. So things may not be as they seem with these bogus drugs. My advice was that there was no known effective drug available at this time for this kind of flu. Are you quite sure your information is correct. Cheers, qldit. Good Question but maybe one too many .

Response:

There could be a Bird Flu pandemic if it leaps to the human species, as many epidemiologists are predicting (Or it could be some other kind of flu). It may have a 40% death rate. If you start to come down with any kind of flu, take Tamiflu immediately. It is almost the only drug that can be used. It can also prevent flu (in many cases) if you start taking it when and if a pandemic hits. (Don’t take it until then though). Many countries are now ordering large stockpiles of Tamiflu. Odds are that if there is a pandemic, you will not be able to get it unless you are in a priority category. So many people are getting a stock in advance now. That includes me. I just ordered some from http://www.pharmaenergy.com/drugs/influenza/ . That may be technically illegal for U.S. residents but small personal imports are tolerated. That company will arrange for a German doctor to write you a prescription, included in the price. That is almost the only (so far) reliable company that will still do that for Tamiflu – I have searched far and wide and read discussion groups that share experiences on this topic). Other alternatives include your local doctor and pharmacy (at a higher price probably), or the Canadian Internet You have been warned…… (I have no connection to these products or companies – I just dread the effect that a flu epidemic would have on sinus and asthma sufferers).

Response:

G’day Don, yes this raises another really interesting situation where there are so many bogus laboratories producing packaged drugs which are in fact completely counterfeit and commonly have no active ingredients at all. One interesting case was where a yank medical surgical team were involved in a South African country as volunteer doctors, the surgical operations went well but the patients started dying. When it was discovered the drugs used in the hospital were counterfiet the team packed up and went home. So things may not be as they seem with these bogus drugs. My advice was that there was no known effective drug available at this time for this kind of flu. Are you quite sure your information is correct. Cheers, qldit.

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