Question:

everybody’s on drugs

Response:

everybody’s on drugs

In my case, he would be correct.  I’m prescribed Paxil and Seroquel, and I abuse Caffeine and Diphenhydramine. — http://www.angelfire.com/mt2/kaelwyn 42?? 7.5 million years and- oh, you were running Windows.

Response:

-everybody’s on drugs I’m on drugs! Zoloft, antidepressant Alllegra, allergies

we have those two drugs in common. add to that…Flonase (also allergies) Klonopin (sleep — very occasionally) and let us not forget caffeine, and the very occasional alcoholic beverage. I love my drugs.  They each have a specific purpose and do what they’re supposed to do.

that’s the best of all possible worlds from my perspective. — "It was when I found out that I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."                                                Ornette Coleman

Response:

everybody’s on drugs In my case, he would be correct.  I’m prescribed Paxil and Seroquel, and I abuse Caffeine and Diphenhydramine. — http://www.angelfire.com/mt2/kaelwyn 42?? 7.5 million years and- oh, you were running Windows.

well in my case , he’s fk’d

Response:

don’t tell me mickintile tell teil . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, Percentile…I am on Paxil still as well as Allegra for my allergies, Advair Diskus for my asthma, and I carry an Albuterol Inhaler for asthma attacks… Mick Lechner Elizabeth, NJ USA everybody’s on drugs

Response:

he’s never made that clear – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As in SSRI’s or the Illegal kind? Mick Lechner Elizabeth, NJ USA everybody’s on drugs

Response:

 Yes, Percentile…I am on Paxil still as well as Allegra for my allergies, Advair Diskus for my asthma, and I carry an Albuterol Inhaler for asthma attacks… Mick Lechner Elizabeth, NJ USA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – everybody’s on drugs

Response:

As in SSRI’s or the Illegal kind? Mick Lechner Elizabeth, NJ USA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – everybody’s on drugs

Response:

everybody’s on drugs

is he on drugs? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

2 years ago, I started on Claritin, Nasonex, Serevent and Flovent, all for allergies and exercise induced asthma.  the combination has made all the difference to me. my only problem is occasional dry throat. -rei – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I took my first Claratin yesterday and I’m very pleased with the results. Anyone else who suffers from allergies and asthma have an comments on running while under the influence of this stuff?  My first one was after yesterday’s 5k race and Tuesday will be my first run "under the influence" assuming I keep taking it daily. It was _great_ to go out and ride a bike Saturday afternoon and not be all runny eyed and drippy nosed.  I was tired from my race but otherwise didn’t notice anything effect I could attribute to the drug. Thanks in advance. — Steve Freides

Response:

I used to have hayfever and colds (passed to me by young offspring), and at one stage an uninterrupted series of colds for 3 months. I got asthma symptoms and an inhaler to use for a couple of months. After than (months later) Sydney City to Surf time had gone from somewhere in the 70s to 92:30. I’ve been taking Claratyne (Aussie spelling) for five months without any allergy/hay fever or colds (at all) – while there have been others affected around me. Times are getting back where they should be. [I'm aiming for 65:00 in the City to Surf this year]. Claratyne has few and rare side effects, which usually amount to dry mouth and some sinus swelling for a small number of people. Zyrtec has more side effects but still not pretty rare. Our office manager once took Zyrtec after a glass of wine and felt like she was tripping… These newer anti-histamines are a zillion times better than the old kind. I can detect any drowsiness or spaciness from Claratyne. Here’s a web site with detailed information on Claratin (and you can navigate to Zyrtec at the same parent site): http://www.nyallergy.com/Treatments/Medications/Nose/Claritin.htm Tom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are lucky. Claratin dehydrates me and gives me severe ‘cotton-mouth’ because of that. Even if I’m just sitting around I must constantly drink. Unfortunately, there’s nothing I can do for the painful desert-like conditions that get created in my sinus cavities, other than crank up the humidifier and breathe directly from it …like I said, you are lucky none of this happens to you, because Claratin sure works, I can’t deny it! It just works "too good" for me. And yes, I’ve tried reducing the dosage. This just results in the same thing, but less. I just deal with it. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "Why should I practice running slow? I already know how to run slow. I must learn to run fast."                                                    Emil Zatopek http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – I took my first Claratin yesterday and I’m very pleased with the results. Anyone else who suffers from allergies and asthma have an comments on running while under the influence of this stuff?  My first one was after yesterday’s 5k race and Tuesday will be my first run "under the influence" assuming I keep taking it daily. It was _great_ to go out and ride a bike Saturday afternoon and not be all runny eyed and drippy nosed.  I was tired from my race but otherwise didn’t notice anything effect I could attribute to the drug. Thanks in advance. — Steve Freides

Response:

I take Zyrtec and use "NasalCrom" (cromolyn sodium) inhaler.  Last week, I was really tired, during the end of the week.  It was probably the running.  This week, I didn’t need Zyrtec and I felt good the whole week.  I was still using the inhaler.  My grass pollen allergies start in about a week.  I will have no choice, but to take Zyrtec, when grass pollen starts.  In prior years, I hadn’t noticed any problems, with Zyrtec or Claritin.  I take the Zyrtec, because I get it really cheap, but I think the the Claritin worked better. I’ve read, both may be soon available, without a prescription.  That would be nice!  I also use some kind of steroid eye drops, because that’s my biggest problem, during grass pollen season.  These drops make my vision blurry! My allergies are hell for maybe 3 weeks, but It’s a miserable three weeks! Troy     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Steve

Question:

Bottom Line….OSHA and the insurance companies (workman’s comp and general liability) dictate that if you are taking any medication that "may" cause you to be a danger to yourself, to others or to the work product you are not employable.  I have been fighting this for over a year now.  I have been hired, passed the drug test with exception for prescribed medications like MC-Contin and had letters sent the day before I was to report for the first day of work that the offer had been retracted and not to come to work.  I have tried it different ways, from taking drug tea to clean up the test samples and then getting the job…I was found out when I went for the physical and was fired "for lack of ability to perform the required functions of the job sufficiently" or another words because they don’t really have to provide a reason.  The insurance company got my medical records from my previous physician and my DEA listed prescriptions rang some sort of bell….I was working for a company for 3 months one time and because I was in a new town, tried to get my medical records sent to a new PCP.  A complete mistake…the doctors review of my medical history included my pain management prescription history and he called my employer to report I was taking narcotic medication and should not be allowed to work near machinery or drive company vehicles….I am an engineer…they fired me the next day… I have been to the EEOC, OSHA and everywhere else…they can prevent you from working if your on this medication…if they want…the trick is to find an employer who will look past the prescription history if you can do the job, pay the higher premium for your risk factor and be glad they have a dedicated employee who just happens to be in a pain management program to improve quality of life issues. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is how I have handled it.  I called the HR person and told her that I took the drug test but it may come back postive because of medication I take for my back.  I didn’t tell her what drug.  She told me if that happens then they will call me and ask a few questions.  If they are not satisfied with my answers then they may want to request my medical records.  I offered to get my records for her a head of time and she said that would not be necessary. I am not too worried now after talking to her.  It will be interesting to see what happens after they get the results.  I will let you all know what happens Well, after I (and others) told you to keep your mouth shut, you may find that by being up front about it you’ve gotten on their good side and they’ll be happy to have you on board. For that matter, there’s a running battle between the HR people and the line managers (whatever "line" means in the particular business) about control of hiring.  Since you took the drug test, the person who is going to be your boss wants you.  HR has to talk him into changing his mind, which he is not inclined to do.  It’s possible, but the odds are on your side right now. Good luck. Jon Miller

Response:

Sorry to bust in on a thread, but about a year ago I got hired and had to go through a very thorough screening for drugs, alchohol, hearing, vision, and all sorts of other stuff. This was to be a Senior Video Engineer for major sporting events, I’ve worked for much more serious and classified jobs and not had so much done in a pre-employment screening, but I guess because it’s going out on the air to the nation at times, they want to be careful. Anyway, I have always found it to be the best policy to tell anyone in great detail my drug history as long as it was prescribed medications. I’ve never yet been declined, and I’ve replied to questions with methadone, demerol, es-hydrocodone, codeine, etc. If they catch you lying, you’re out the door, if you tell the truth, then they don’t seem to care. How much shows up in urine and blood, I don’t know, but they noted all the drugs on my verbal medical history taken by the MD., so it was all there for my employer to see. Just my $.02 Doug

Response:

This is how I have handled it.  I called the HR person and told her that I took the drug test but it may come back postive because of medication I take for my back.  I didn’t tell her what drug.  She told me if that happens then they will call me and ask a few questions.  If they are not satisfied with my answers then they may want to request my medical records.  I offered to get my records for her a head of time and she said that would not be necessary. I am not too worried now after talking to her.  It will be interesting to see what happens after they get the results.  I will let you all know what happens

Well, after I (and others) told you to keep your mouth shut, you may find that by being up front about it you’ve gotten on their good side and they’ll be happy to have you on board. For that matter, there’s a running battle between the HR people and the line managers (whatever "line" means in the particular business) about control of hiring.  Since you took the drug test, the person who is going to be your boss wants you.  HR has to talk him into changing his mind, which he is not inclined to do.  It’s possible, but the odds are on your side right now. Good luck. Jon Miller

Response:

Barb, please do let us know!  Lord, you really made me feel my age in that post.  It took me a minute to figure out that the HR person was what was once called the Personnel Manager. LOL…I’m just trying to find something to smile about today!  This darn wound is about 2 1/2 inches deep now and it is almost time to debrie it. So I am in a …what my sis calls…a pissy mood.      Jo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is how I have handled it.  I called the HR person and told her that I took the drug test but it may come back postive because of medication I take for my back.  I didn’t tell her what drug.  She told me if that happens then they will call me and ask a few questions.  If they are not satisfied with my answers then they may want to request my medical records.  I offered to get my records for her a head of time and she said that would not be necessary. I am not too worried now after talking to her.  It will be interesting to see what happens after they get the results.  I will let you all know what happens Barb. message JMHO BUT!  The whole idea of drug testing for employment scares the s— out of me!!! It seems as if every other day we lose more freedoms! Unless you are flying a jet, a captain of a oil carrying TANKER! or in a job that requires supreme attention what business is it of any company to know what kind of drugs your doctor prescribes?  If you are up front with your employer and tell them you have a chronic disease or chronic pain you are sure to NOT get the job! Damn! What a world! I’m not sure I agree with that.  They’re not supposed to do the drug bit until after they’ve decided (except for the testing) to hire you. That means that if they then give you the test, which is when you tell them you’re taking legal, appropriately prescribed drugs, and they choose not to hire you, you sue the hell out of the bastards.  Basically, when they send you for the test, they are saying they’ve hired you. Keep in mind that drug tests are not free.  They don’t want to waste money on tests for people they’re not even considering hiring. To avoid discrimination, you probably should only say that you don’t do recreational drugs if you’re asked before they tell you they want you to take a test.  After all, if you blurt out that you take Oxycontin, they think "oh, I just heard about all that bad Oxycontin abuse, and oh, look, she only has a 3.5 GPA (20 years ago) and she stuttered twice, poor communication skills, I’ll keep looking" and how will you ever convince a judge or jury that they illegally discriminated. However, once they’ve sent you to the test, they’ve said they want to hire you — only the drug tests could prevent their hiring you. I guess this means that you should also hide your breasts, dark skin, amputated leg, extra weight, shortness, thick glasses, and anything else that could get you discriminated against. Jon Miller

Response:

This is how I have handled it.  I called the HR person and told her that I took the drug test but it may come back postive because of medication I take for my back.  I didn’t tell her what drug.  She told me if that happens then they will call me and ask a few questions.  If they are not satisfied with my answers then they may want to request my medical records.  I offered to get my records for her a head of time and she said that would not be necessary. I am not too worried now after talking to her.  It will be interesting to see what happens after they get the results.  I will let you all know what happens Barb. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JMHO BUT!  The whole idea of drug testing for employment scares the s— out of me!!! It seems as if every other day we lose more freedoms! Unless you are flying a jet, a captain of a oil carrying TANKER! or in a job that requires supreme attention what business is it of any company to know what kind of drugs your doctor prescribes?  If you are up front with your employer and tell them you have a chronic disease or chronic pain you are sure to NOT get the job! Damn! What a world! I’m not sure I agree with that.  They’re not supposed to do the drug bit until after they’ve decided (except for the testing) to hire you.  That means that if they then give you the test, which is when you tell them you’re taking legal, appropriately prescribed drugs, and they choose not to hire you, you sue the hell out of the bastards.  Basically, when they send you for the test, they are saying they’ve hired you. Keep in mind that drug tests are not free.  They don’t want to waste money on tests for people they’re not even considering hiring. To avoid discrimination, you probably should only say that you don’t do recreational drugs if you’re asked before they tell you they want you to take a test.  After all, if you blurt out that you take Oxycontin, they think "oh, I just heard about all that bad Oxycontin abuse, and oh, look, she only has a 3.5 GPA (20 years ago) and she stuttered twice, poor communication skills, I’ll keep looking" and how will you ever convince a judge or jury that they illegally discriminated.  However, once they’ve sent you to the test, they’ve said they want to hire you — only the drug tests could prevent their hiring you. I guess this means that you should also hide your breasts, dark skin, amputated leg, extra weight, shortness, thick glasses, and anything else that could get you discriminated against. Jon Miller

Response:

JMHO BUT!  The whole idea of drug testing for employment scares the s— out of me!!! It seems as if every other day we lose more freedoms! Unless you are flying a jet, a captain of a oil carrying TANKER! or in a job that requires supreme attention what business is it of any company to know what kind of drugs your doctor prescribes?  If you are up front with your employer and tell them you have a chronic disease or chronic pain you are sure to NOT get the job! Damn! What a world!

I’m not sure I agree with that.  They’re not supposed to do the drug bit until after they’ve decided (except for the testing) to hire you.  That means that if they then give you the test, which is when you tell them you’re taking legal, appropriately prescribed drugs, and they choose not to hire you, you sue the hell out of the bastards.  Basically, when they send you for the test, they are saying they’ve hired you. Keep in mind that drug tests are not free.  They don’t want to waste money on tests for people they’re not even considering hiring. To avoid discrimination, you probably should only say that you don’t do recreational drugs if you’re asked before they tell you they want you to take a test.  After all, if you blurt out that you take Oxycontin, they think "oh, I just heard about all that bad Oxycontin abuse, and oh, look, she only has a 3.5 GPA (20 years ago) and she stuttered twice, poor communication skills, I’ll keep looking" and how will you ever convince a judge or jury that they illegally discriminated.  However, once they’ve sent you to the test, they’ve said they want to hire you — only the drug tests could prevent their hiring you. I guess this means that you should also hide your breasts, dark skin, amputated leg, extra weight, shortness, thick glasses, and anything else that could get you discriminated against. Jon Miller

Response:

If you’ve heard about these drugs causing false-positives, don’t you think the drug testing companies have heard of them too and made adjustments for them? I can’t see the testing companies caring particularly much.  If the cost of false positives is high (relative to running the business), they will change.  For example, insurance companies used to test for AIDS with the Western Blot test, which has a high percentage of false positives, because it’s a lot cheaper than the ELISA test.  Then, if the Western Blot comes back positive, you test with the more accurate (but more expensive) ELISA.  Insurance companies have an incentive to insure everyone that they can at the appropriate rate — if you don’t sell it, you don’t make money, but if you sell fire insurance to people whose houses are on fire you don’t make money either.

Would that be the difference between a fly by night outfit and a reputable organization? I would imagine that the testing companies have the same outlook — accuracy is less important than the bottom line.  I would be real interested in seeing what the contracts look like — do they get in trouble for errors?  What kind of trouble? Which hurts them more, false positives or false negatives?

If I were denied a six figure job based on a false positive, I can guarantee that it would hurt them. I don’t even know which hurts a company more:  false negatives (which leads them to hire people with at least the potential to damage them due to drug use) or false positives (which leads them to not hire qualified candidates [which everyone is screaming are in short supply] and potentially face ADA lawsuits). I have some more interesting information on screening people with just a questionnaire, but I have to find it before I screw it up in the translation.  The basic idea is there is a company that asks people about 50 questions, like "what recreational drugs do you use?" and "what is the dollar value of everything you have stolen from your employer in the last two years?" and people tell them! Apparently they (the job seekers) figure there’s some way to check up on them and everyone lies a little anyway (and everyone does it), so it’s better to not look bad by lying too much.

Nothing amazes me anymore. That people would openly admit to crimes that can’t be proven while asking the employer to hand over the keys to the front door is well within the realm of reality. Will – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jon Miller

Response:

JMHO BUT!  The whole idea of drug testing for employment scares the s— out of me!!! It seems as if every other day we lose more freedoms! Unless you are flying a jet, a captain of a oil carrying TANKER! or in a job that requires supreme attention what business is it of any company to know what kind of drugs your doctor prescribes?  If you are up front with your employer and tell them you have a chronic disease or chronic pain you are sure to NOT get the job! Damn! What a world! Jo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, this is one of the most unfair posts I’ve ever read. I’ve taken Sinequon and it’s like thorazine or haldol, not like LSD. One should be give straight points for showing Sinequon in their blood! I guess the real answer is that if you take all your meds to the interview, you should be exempted for any false positives, depending on the job. God know you’ll not be approved for landing aircraft at La Gurardia. Love and kisses, P what about false positives for other drugs?  once I looked up my meds and if i were to take a pre-employment drug test,   according to this thing i read (dang I forgot where I got this info sorry)  I would test positive for marijuana,  lsd,  opium,  amphetamines,  steroids,  and narcotics.  The meds I was on at the time were lodine,  prednisone,  sinequon, plaquenil, proventil inhaler for asthma,  and then when I had to stop the lodine I was taking vicodin.    This thing I read said the lodine would show up as marijuana.   Fortunately my current job didn’t require a drug test,  but now I am stuck there because I really doubt that if all this stuff showed up in my drug test,  even if I showed them the bottles,  I think they would have a hard time believing it.  This thing  I read also said the sinequon would show up as LSD,  and the proventil would be an amphetamine. This whole drug testing thing is so scary. Lori My SO tested positive on Tylenol three and she just had to show them her bottle with the prescription and everything was OK.

Response:

God know you’ll not be approved for landing aircraft at La Gurardia. Love and kisses, P

I notice that FAA regulations prohibit flying aircraft while taking any opiates.  I honestly can’t say whether that’s a good or a bad idea. Jon Miller

Response:

If you’ve heard about these drugs causing false-positives, don’t you think the drug testing companies have heard of them too and made adjustments for them?

I can’t see the testing companies caring particularly much.  If the cost of false positives is high (relative to running the business), they will change.  For example, insurance companies used to test for AIDS with the Western Blot test, which has a high percentage of false positives, because it’s a lot cheaper than the ELISA test.  Then, if the Western Blot comes back positive, you test with the more accurate (but more expensive) ELISA.  Insurance companies have an incentive to insure everyone that they can at the appropriate rate — if you don’t sell it, you don’t make money, but if you sell fire insurance to people whose houses are on fire you don’t make money either. I would imagine that the testing companies have the same outlook — accuracy is less important than the bottom line.  I would be real interested in seeing what the contracts look like — do they get in trouble for errors?  What kind of trouble?  Which hurts them more, false positives or false negatives? I don’t even know which hurts a company more:  false negatives (which leads them to hire people with at least the potential to damage them due to drug use) or false positives (which leads them to not hire qualified candidates [which everyone is screaming are in short supply] and potentially face ADA lawsuits). I have some more interesting information on screening people with just a questionnaire, but I have to find it before I screw it up in the translation.  The basic idea is there is a company that asks people about 50 questions, like "what recreational drugs do you use?" and "what is the dollar value of everything you have stolen from your employer in the last two years?" and people tell them! Apparently they (the job seekers) figure there’s some way to check up on them and everyone lies a little anyway (and everyone does it), so it’s better to not look bad by lying too much. Jon Miller

Response:

Now, this is one of the most unfair posts I’ve ever read. I’ve taken Sinequon and it’s like thorazine or haldol, not like LSD. One should be give straight points for showing Sinequon in their blood! I guess the real answer is that if you take all your meds to the interview, you should be exempted for any false positives, depending on the job. God know you’ll not be approved for landing aircraft at La Gurardia. Love and kisses, P

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what about false positives for other drugs?  once I looked up my meds and if i were to take a pre-employment drug test,   according to this thing i read (dang I forgot where I got this info sorry)  I would test positive for marijuana,  lsd,  opium,  amphetamines,  steroids,  and narcotics.  The meds I was on at the time were lodine,  prednisone,  sinequon,  plaquenil, proventil inhaler for asthma,  and then when I had to stop the lodine I was taking vicodin.    This thing I read said the lodine would show up as marijuana.   Fortunately my current job didn’t require a drug test,  but now I am stuck there because I really doubt that if all this stuff showed up in my drug test,  even if I showed them the bottles,  I think they would have a hard time believing it.  This thing  I read also said the sinequon would show up as LSD,  and the proventil would be an amphetamine. This whole drug testing thing is so scary. Lori My SO tested positive on Tylenol three and she just had to show them her bottle with the prescription and everything was OK.

Response:

What medications were these people in the air force using that caused the a false-positive that the testing lab had never heard of before? As for beating the test, that’s easy if it’s just a urine sample. But that’s not what we were talking about. Nor did I say that lab tests were infallible. We were talking about false-positives caused by legal prescription medications. Please don’t take what I say and present it as being incorrect by switching to a totally different topic than was originally being discussed. Will – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – not necessarily no.  when i was in the air force,  there were people who got kicked out for supposedly using illegals drugs when they weren’t,  and others who i KNOW were using drugs and they always passed their tests with flying colors.  lab tests aren’t infallible. lori If you’ve heard about these drugs causing false-positives, don’t you think the drug testing companies have heard of them too and made adjustments for them? Will what about false positives for other drugs?  once I looked up my meds and if i were to take a pre-employment drug test,   according to this thing i read (dang I forgot where I got this info sorry)  I would test positive for marijuana,  lsd,  opium,  amphetamines,  steroids,  and narcotics.  The meds I was on at the time were lodine,  prednisone,  sinequon,  plaquenil, proventil inhaler for asthma,  and then when I had to stop the lodine I was taking vicodin.    This thing I read said the lodine would show up as marijuana.   Fortunately my current job didn’t require a drug test,  but now I am stuck there because I really doubt that if all this stuff showed up in my drug test,  even if I showed them the bottles,  I think they would have a hard time believing it.  This thing  I read also said the sinequon would show up as LSD,  and the proventil would be an amphetamine. This whole drug testing thing is so scary. Lori My SO tested positive on Tylenol three and she just had to show them her bottle with the prescription and everything was OK.

Response:

not necessarily no.  when i was in the air force,  there were people who got kicked out for supposedly using illegals drugs when they weren’t,  and others who i KNOW were using drugs and they always passed their tests with flying colors.  lab tests aren’t infallible. lori

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’ve heard about these drugs causing false-positives, don’t you think the drug testing companies have heard of them too and made adjustments for them? Will what about false positives for other drugs?  once I looked up my meds and if i were to take a pre-employment drug test,   according to this thing i read (dang I forgot where I got this info sorry)  I would test positive for marijuana,  lsd,  opium,  amphetamines,  steroids,  and narcotics.  The meds I was on at the time were lodine,  prednisone,  sinequon,  plaquenil, proventil inhaler for asthma,  and then when I had to stop the lodine I was taking vicodin.    This thing I read said the lodine would show up as marijuana.   Fortunately my current job didn’t require a drug test,  but now I am stuck there because I really doubt that if all this stuff showed up in my drug test,  even if I showed them the bottles,  I think they would have a hard time believing it.  This thing  I read also said the sinequon would show up as LSD,  and the proventil would be an amphetamine. This whole drug testing thing is so scary. Lori My SO tested positive on Tylenol three and she just had to show them her bottle with the prescription and everything was OK.

Response:

If you’ve heard about these drugs causing false-positives, don’t you think the drug testing companies have heard of them too and made adjustments for them? Will – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what about false positives for other drugs?  once I looked up my meds and if i were to take a pre-employment drug test,   according to this thing i read (dang I forgot where I got this info sorry)  I would test positive for marijuana,  lsd,  opium,  amphetamines,  steroids,  and narcotics.  The meds I was on at the time were lodine,  prednisone,  sinequon,  plaquenil, proventil inhaler for asthma,  and then when I had to stop the lodine I was taking vicodin.    This thing I read said the lodine would show up as marijuana.   Fortunately my current job didn’t require a drug test,  but now I am stuck there because I really doubt that if all this stuff showed up in my drug test,  even if I showed them the bottles,  I think they would have a hard time believing it.  This thing  I read also said the sinequon would show up as LSD,  and the proventil would be an amphetamine. This whole drug testing thing is so scary. Lori My SO tested positive on Tylenol three and she just had to show them her bottle with the prescription and everything was OK.

Response:

My SO tested positive on Tylenol three and she just had to show them her bottle with the prescription and everything was OK.

Response:

what about false positives for other drugs?  once I looked up my meds and if i were to take a pre-employment drug test,   according to this thing i read (dang I forgot where I got this info sorry)  I would test positive for marijuana,  lsd,  opium,  amphetamines,  steroids,  and narcotics.  The meds I was on at the time were lodine,  prednisone,  sinequon,  plaquenil, proventil inhaler for asthma,  and then when I had to stop the lodine I was taking vicodin.    This thing I read said the lodine would show up as marijuana.   Fortunately my current job didn’t require a drug test,  but now I am stuck there because I really doubt that if all this stuff showed up in my drug test,  even if I showed them the bottles,  I think they would have a hard time believing it.  This thing  I read also said the sinequon would show up as LSD,  and the proventil would be an amphetamine. This whole drug testing thing is so scary. Lori

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My SO tested positive on Tylenol three and she just had to show them her bottle with the prescription and everything was OK.

Response:

sorry about that, I forgot I had it on.  I will repost Hey all – I know this topic has been touched on in the past but I didn’t pay attention because it did not pertain to me. Does pain medication show up in drug testing and if it does, would it determine if you get a job or not? I was hired for a new job pending the results of a drug test. I asked my future supervisor what the drug test tested for and she said illicit drugs. I asked if I am taking prescription medication if that would matter. She said she didn’t think so. I asked my doctor about it. He said if I am completely honest about what and how much I take I should be all right. I went in this morning to take the drug test and unfortunately I did not have to pee. I am going to go back Monday. I take Oxycontin 10mg three times a day and lortab for breakthrough which ends up being about three a day. Ironically I have a doctor appointment on Tuesday so I am out of lortab. That is no big deal because I am able to cope on the Oxy’s. Which brings me to my next question . . . How long does the medication stay in your system? I am probably nervous about nothing, but any help would be appreciated. Barb Adams — Barbara Kirshbaum Adams Attorney at Law Kirshbaum & Kirshbaum, Chtd. 6465 Wayzata Boulevard, Suite 770 Minneapolis, MN    55426 (952)545-2700

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Question:

Can anyone tell the difference in Xanax and generic Alprazolam? The generic script runs about $20.00 for 100 .5 MG tablets verses $125.00 for Xanax. It seems that the generics are not quite as strong to me. Any thoughts? Thanks! Phil Hadaway http://www.philhadaway.com

Response:

Can anyone tell the difference in Xanax and generic Alprazolam? The generic script runs about $20.00 for 100 .5 MG tablets verses $125.00 for Xanax. It seems that the generics are not quite as strong to me. Any thoughts?

Hi Phil, I know some posters have claimed they do feel a difference between generic meds VS brand names. I have seen more posters claim that about Klonopin than Xanax though. My son uses a inhaler for asthma, and he swears he feels a difference if he uses the generic (Albuterol) from the brand (Proventil), he claims the brand works better. I talked to his doctor and she said it was a possibility, so he is only to use the brand. I take a thyroid med and my doctor told me to only use the brand name, she told me the generics effectiveness varies. I say if you feel a difference and you can afford it, go with what works better. Here is a link on generic VS brand name meds. There are even more links at the bottom on the page http://pharmacology.about.com/health/pharmacology/library/weekly/aa00… Take care, Jackie

Response:

Hi Phil, I can only tell you what my pdoc told me.  He said there is a difference between the two.  Upjohn manufactures Xanax and you know you’re getting the same med every time.  There are many different drug manufactures of the generic brand and each one may be a little different. He told me that if I change to a generic brand, to ask the druggest to fill my script from the same manufacture each time I get it refilled.  I tried that, but it didn’t work. They had to look it up each time I picked up my script and too often they had to refill it again.  So I just stayed with the brand name.  I know it’s much more expensive, but if you are sensitive to any change in meds, I say stick with the brand name if you can.  If it’s too expensive to get filled all at one time, just get enough for a week or two…spread it out. Good luck, ~Rita~ Can anyone tell the difference in Xanax and generic Alprazolam? The generic script runs about $20.00 for 100 .5 MG tablets verses $125.00 for Xanax. It seems that the generics are not quite as strong to me. Any thoughts? Thanks! Phil Hadaway http://www.philhadaway.com

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

i’m so sorry things are going so badly right now… please don’t think of it as going down for the last time.  going down — yes. last time — NO! do whatever little thing it is that will make you feel even a tiny bit better for even a second. i’n *so* sorry you have to deal with all of this… sasha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t been doing to good this week, missed my therapy appointment and then missed group therapy, too. I missed individual T because of my sleeping problems, I had been up until 7am and making it to a 11am appointment was impossible.  As for group, that was today.  I called my T yesterday because things were really bad. She asked I needed to be in the hospital, the psych ward here is really awful. There’s only 1 hospital and 1 psych ward.  It’s on two floors, one floor has all the bedrooms & a lounge.  But, you’re only allowed on that floor from 1 – 2pm and after 8:30pm.  So all day, everybody is up on the other floor. There’s a lounge/kitchen with a TV and snacks. There’s one indiv. therapy and one group session during the week, on weekends there is no therapy.  After that you watch TV all day or pace the hall, can’t call it halls, because there was only one straight hallway. PCU had a problem giving out incorrect meds, didn’t enforce rules such as no glass bottles & turning in cans (not good for me), they allowed my only to use 2 puffs on my inhaler (for asthma) & because of that they had to call in Respiratory therapy, since I was in a full blown asthma attack. The guy from respiratory bitched at staff for it.  And my Pdoc discharged me because I called a temporary halt to my ECT, had a bad reaction. I wasn’t refusing to have again, just wanted to figure what was causing the bad reaction.  He said there was no reason for me to be in PCU, didn’t even bother to ask if I was still suicidal. I have changed my Pdoc.  Going to a different PCU is out, the next closed one is an hour away. I promised my T I’d make group today.  Last night, the pain was too much.  I doubled my dose of resperidal, combined that with cyclobenzaprine (a muscle relaxant).  Took them to stop pain, knew it would make me sleep, I slept 16 hours. I have no money to pay the phone or cable, no phone = no Internet = no support. And there a some very bad problems w/my daughter & her boyfriend, best not to discuss it here. I’m going down for the last time. ensoul I feel certain that I’m going mad again. I feel we can’t go thru another of those terrible times. And I shan’t recover this time. I begin to hear voices ~~ Virginia Woolf

Response:

I haven’t been doing to good this week, missed my therapy appointment and then missed group therapy, too. I missed individual T because of my sleeping problems, I had been up until 7am and making it to a 11am appointment was impossible.  As for group, that was today.  I called my T yesterday because things were really bad. She asked I needed to be in the hospital, the psych ward here is really awful.  There’s only 1 hospital and 1 psych ward.  It’s on two floors, one floor has all the bedrooms & a lounge.  But, you’re only allowed on that floor from 1 – 2pm and after 8:30pm.  So all day, everybody is up on the other floor.  There’s a lounge/kitchen with a TV and snacks. There’s one indiv. therapy and one group session during the week, on weekends there is no therapy.  After that you watch TV all day or pace the hall, can’t call it halls, because there was only one straight hallway. PCU had a problem giving out incorrect meds, didn’t enforce rules such as no glass bottles & turning in cans (not good for me), they allowed my only to use 2 puffs on my inhaler (for asthma) & because of that they had to call in Respiratory therapy, since I was in a full blown asthma attack. The guy from respiratory bitched at staff for it.  And my Pdoc discharged me because I called a temporary halt to my ECT, had a bad reaction. I wasn’t refusing to have again, just wanted to figure what was causing the bad reaction.  He said there was no reason for me to be in PCU, didn’t even bother to ask if I was still suicidal. I have changed my Pdoc.  Going to a different PCU is out, the next closed one is an hour away. I promised my T I’d make group today.  Last night, the pain was too much.  I doubled my dose of resperidal, combined that with cyclobenzaprine (a muscle relaxant).  Took them to stop pain, knew it would make me sleep, I slept 16 hours. I have no money to pay the phone or cable, no phone = no Internet = no support. And there a some very bad problems w/my daughter & her boyfriend, best not to discuss it here. I’m going down for the last time. ensoul I feel certain that I’m going mad again. I feel we can’t go thru another of those terrible times. And I shan’t recover this time. I begin to hear voices ~~ Virginia Woolf

Response:

ensoul, somehow I can relate to your description of the psych ward. Our state mental hospital where I live is about as bad . hang on tight though and please don’t give up. -Melia Don’t forget to visit my webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/Want2oBeMe/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/Want2oBeMe/Book.html

Response:

I’m sorry, wish things were better for you, wish I could help. About all I can do is send good thougts and say a prayer, hoping someone out there greater is in control, listening, and will intervene to make life a little easier.  Please take care! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Question:

Thanks for the advice.  I will try to track down this book. I live in Norfolk, England.  Where abouts are you? Ann * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

ann wrote:

Is there anybody out there who has any suggestions of a diet which has worked for them.

What diet works for you depends on your food allergies. Have you determined exactly which foods you are and are not allergic to? Once you have done that, it’s a matter of avoiding what you are allergic to. If you have multiple food allergies, one option is to find a nutritional formula which works for you. Baby formulas such as Alimentum or Nutramigen are often recommended, or adult formulas such as Ensure or Boost (always read the ingredients on the label to be sure they contain nothing you’re allergic to before trying them). As for reflux, you need to get that under control. There are over-the-counter remedies which work (Gaviscon worked for me) as well as prescription ones. Joan

Response:

Thanks Val for your mail. I too get muscle aches and weaknesses.  I am going to try vegetables and fruit only for a while and then perhaps bio yoghurt.  I have cut right down on tea and coffee and am trying to drink lots of water. I also find that I have put on an excessive amount of weight, which I have read can be an allergy problem.  I really don’t eat very much so this seems quite likely. Most of the replies I have had are from the USA and I am in England.  I will look in the health food stores for some suitable foodstuffs. Good luck with your four year old. Ann * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Annie, First let me say, "YOU ARE NOT A HYPOCHONDRIAC!" I also know first hand how horrible life with extreme allergies can be. I have been plagued my entire life! After turning 25 it became much worse, however, so I can relate to your story! I have to carry a huge shot around with me in case I have a severe allergic reaction because when I do my airway swells and I could die in minutes. Then I end up going to the hospital for 12 hours of iv’s and mega-steriods! Chemicals, foods, all types of things turn me inside out! I even developed an allergy to ant bites and insect stings, at 24, though in childhood I never had that. Now, even skin exhema became a problem. The list goes on but I will try to make this short as possible! I lived in Texas for 8 years where my allergies really became intolerable and made me ill in many other ways too. I started my day by throwing up from the congestion and breathing difficulties. I had this really annoying breathing sound coming from my mouth every moment and became really self conscious as everyone noticed it. I always had to hack up mucus, leave the room or do it in a kleenex in the car, with people around. Often, we had to stop the car to let me throw  up because I was so congested that it just happened. As a child I even had to do this during school and have to spit in the sink in front of the other kids. Talk about embarrassing!  I missed allot of school growing up. In 1995, I ended up in the hospital 5 times in 18 months after being bitten by a red ant. In the south, red ants have venom, and it almost killed me each time. Then the steroids which followed for months made me gain weight and have other ailments…. such a chain reaction! Well, you know how that goes too! Household things really do me in too. People who are not this sensitive to the likes of everything we are just can’t relate! I too had people insinuate hypochondria as a child and that really hurt! Until the doctors pegged allergies I was just beside myself trying to find answers and relief! Still, even after knowing the cause, it is no fun to be sick all the time and have your whole life revolve around your problems! I KNOW how hard it is for you to live like this! I lived like this for 28 years! We moved from the south to the east coast. It was not so bad here for the first 3 years, your body has to adjust to a different climate. However, going home to Houston, a few times a year, always made me really ill. Not to mention afraid of a little creature smaller than the size of pencil point because they are virtually everywhere and unavoidable. With two more children being under age 3 I have so much to live for even with a really physically tough life! I was so afraid of the ants! I would be miserable every time we went and started dreading the trips. We would touch down on Texas soil and I would start swelling up and coughing/ spewing mucus and having severe breathing problems. I too wanted to avoid drugs, which made it even harder, especially when nursing my baby.  I had to stop antihistamines which didn’t do the job most of the time anyway but I was addicted for years just TRYING to get some relief. The last two times I went home to Texas my parents had this small box hooked up, a type of air purifier, they also had a water purifier made by the same company.  (I had used certain types of air and water filters before with no relief, so when they spoke of it over the phone I did not believe it would work for me…) until I got there and and encountered a house full of TRULY pure air!!! Mind you, we are health conscious people to start; avoid chemicals, junk foods, cig. smoke in the home or public places, etc… we have always had to!  Especially me! My last two trips to Texas were different! Very different! I felt GREAT the entire time we were there!!! I couldn’t believe what a difference it made! For the first time I had NO health problems at all!!! I was jumping for joy to say the least! We had a fabulous time and I was able to have so much fun doing so many things I have had to avoid for years from being sick and tired and tired of being sick. My parents also had great success with these products! They were not as bad as I am though. I was the true "test case!" LOL! What really floored everyone was this… I was bit by an ant on the second to my last trip there… we waited, looked for the normal signs to appear and were sure they would. We went to the hospital expecting the worst, as became standard for me when bitten. We waited and waited but nothing happened… so we went home and had the benydryl and my shot ready just in case…. nothing, nothing at all happened! I had the bite mark and had killed the little bugger that bit me but nothing bad happened. This was astonishing because even before I had the anaphylactic reactions at least the bite site would swell up like a tennis ball and be really red and hot. This time, not even that happened. We were all in shock! I was proof positive that those purifiers worked! I was convinced and so was my family and all my friends! Teach me to doubt something I haven’t tried ever again! What a relief it is to have found something to help me. I ordered one for myself because last year my allergies returned after my body adjusted to the East Coast and I am also going to get the little one for my car. I will NOT live without this ever again! I will be bring them everywhere I go and using then when we travel too! And, get this, we are moving BACK to TEXAS now!!! I will finally be able to be with my family again! I then started reading testimonials from people all over the country who had similar success with these and just had to learn more! I do not know if this would help you, everyone’s body is different, but it sure is worth a try! If it helps you the way it has helped myself and others then it would be well worth the life you would have back! If it doesn’t work you could just return them and get your money back! I am now on a mission to spread the word and help others with this. I feel it is my duty! And, for the first time in my life I have the better health to do so! I have my life back! Sorry to ramble but this is very emotional for me, I tear up a bit when talking about it. I am pretty sure from your post that you can understand! Thanks for listening!  I would be glad to help you get a hold of this equipment in any way I can! Please let me know if you would like more info and if I can help you in any way. Sincerely, Debra OSborn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ann wrote:

I have always suffered from allergies, but in mid-life these have got worse.  I suspect that all my medical problems are allergy related and so does my GP and consultant at the hospital.  I have got asthma, rhinitis, excma (can’t spell)irritable bowell syndrome and now reflux (although I suspect that the reflux was as a result of three lots of antibiotics.)  I am now trying to eat little and often and cutting out cheese and meat and spicy food, as these seem to cause a lot of problems.  I once went to an allergenist who came up with a long list of things she suspected I was intollerant to and included ‘water’ on the list, which made me feel like giving up!! I am trying also to eat live yoghurts and those small daily milk type drinks which contain helpful bacteria. Unfortunately, the asthma, combined with reflux has had a terrible effect on my breathing and I am now getting panic attacks, just at the thought of getting out of breath. I am not a hypocondriac – these things are genuine.  At present I am also getting a lot of bleeding from congestion at the top of my nose and a lot of mucus with the irritable bowell syndrome. Some days are better than others and sometimes I feel on top of the world for a day.  On other days I just want to sleep. As I said, my doctor is sympathetic but both he and the specialist have not been able to offer much help. I have been on short steroid courses in the past for allergic conditions, but I don’t want to do this again. I use an inhaler for asthma and find that anti-histamines help sometimes. Is there anybody out there who has any suggestions of a diet which has worked for them.  I feel it is down to food more than anything, but tonight, for instance, I did some ironing and, as usual, when I iron I have developed a rash up my right arm which I can only suppose is triggered by the heat on the detergent residue or fabric softener. I know I am a stressful person, but 75% of the stress is caused by always have allergies and then the stress makes it worse. I won’t bore you any longer – but just had to get it all off my chest. Any helpful suggestions out there – please don’t suggest any more doctors, specialists, etc.! Annie * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

I have always suffered from allergies, but in mid-life these have got worse.  I suspect that all my medical problems are allergy related and so does my GP and consultant at the hospital.  I have got asthma, rhinitis, excma (can’t spell)irritable bowell syndrome and now reflux (although I suspect that the reflux was as a result of three lots of antibiotics.)  I am now trying to eat little and often and cutting out cheese and meat and spicy food, as these seem to cause a lot of problems.  I once went to an allergenist who came up with a long list of things she suspected I was intollerant to and included ‘water’ on the list, which made me feel like giving up!! I am trying also to eat live yoghurts and those small daily milk type drinks which contain helpful bacteria. Unfortunately, the asthma, combined with reflux has had a terrible effect on my breathing and I am now getting panic attacks, just at the thought of getting out of breath. I am not a hypocondriac – these things are genuine.  At present I am also getting a lot of bleeding from congestion at the top of my nose and a lot of mucus with the irritable bowell syndrome. Some days are better than others and sometimes I feel on top of the world for a day.  On other days I just want to sleep. As I said, my doctor is sympathetic but both he and the specialist have not been able to offer much help. I have been on short steroid courses in the past for allergic conditions, but I don’t want to do this again. I use an inhaler for asthma and find that anti-histamines help sometimes. Is there anybody out there who has any suggestions of a diet which has worked for them.  I feel it is down to food more than anything, but tonight, for instance, I did some ironing and, as usual, when I iron I have developed a rash up my right arm which I can only suppose is triggered by the heat on the detergent residue or fabric softener. I know I am a stressful person, but 75% of the stress is caused by always have allergies and then the stress makes it worse. I won’t bore you any longer – but just had to get it all off my chest. Any helpful suggestions out there – please don’t suggest any more doctors, specialists, etc.! Annie * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

[ Pauline, please DON'T quote messages in their entirety after your   comments; it makes an ongoing discussion a real mess to follow. ] "Pauline" <jdrin…@ctaz.com

writes: ann <annkonashNOanS…@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: I have always suffered from allergies, but in mid-life these have got worse.  I suspect that all my medical problems are allergy related and so does my GP and consultant at the hospital.  I have got asthma, rhinitis, [eczema], irritable bowel syndrome and now reflux there is a connection between estrogen and allergies, this is caused by the extra stress that is placed on the adrenal glands, which causes low coritislol levels –which in turn can make allergies worse, and other health problems,

This seems a bit speculative and it doesn’t suggest anything very helpful to do.  HRT doesn’t really help with food allergies, does it? – and most allergic reactions have nothing to do with cortisol. On the other hand, all of Annie’s symptoms can usually be helped by excluding foods that trigger sensitivities, adapting eating patterns, removing environmental allergens, and maybe appropriate use of supplements and digestive enzymes.  Which may not amount to much of an explanation of what’s happening, but if it works, who cares?

I once went to an allergenist who came up with a long list of things she suspected I was intollerant to and included ‘water’ on the list, which made me feel like giving up!!

Unfortunately most allergy tests either list far too many things or only spot a few that may not be the real problem.  They are only as good as the practitioner who does or requests them.

when I iron I have developed a rash up my right arm which I can only suppose is triggered by the heat on the detergent residue or fabric softener.

If you use fabric softeners, there’s a good chance you use a lot of other household chemicals too.  Bin *everything* that comes in a spray can, for a start, and everything with a floral scent, whether intended to go behind your ears, round the toilet bowl or on the car upholstery.  See what that does to your asthma.  Try keeping a diary of daily activities and note when the asthma flares up; you may find it correlates with some activity like cleaning out the budgie cage, going into the garden shed or visiting the dry cleaner.  Similarly with the IBS and reflux.

Any helpful suggestions out there – please don’t suggest any more doctors, specialists, etc.!

Unfortunately that *is* the best suggestion I can make.  But what you need is *one* doctor or medical team that will look at your *overall* health.  I agree with Pauline as far as thinking that these conditions are probably linked; so trying to get them treated in isolation won’t work. ========

Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

Hi, my name is Eddy. I just wanted to share with you that I also suffer from a lot of allegro’s. I’ve been through three or four cars because of an allergy to mold. When I come in contact with mold my stomach starts aching real bad. Actually it starts in my stomach and esophagus. Last summer was the first time I started having allergic reactions when the pollen & mold levels got high. I was having panic attacks because of the reflex reaction in my stomach. A allergy Dr. told me that what happens is the mold allergens get in my nose and causes sinus drip which goes into my stomach which triggers the cramps and acid reflex. It also gives me the sensation of not being able to catch my breath which would usually cause the panic attacks. In the same way that you are desperate, I am tying to seek out anyone who has ever had stomach aches from allergens. I also have problems with just about every food. I don’t think there’s any antibiotic that I can take. I’m scarred to take most medicines because of bad reactions to them. Benadryl is about the only thing I can take and it doesn’t really seem to help a whole lot. Please let me know if you find any help out here. I will do the same. Eddy mama…@home.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -bogus address wrote:

ann <annkonashNOanS…@yahoo.com.invalid writes: I have got asthma, rhinitis, [eczema] irritable bowel syndrome and now reflux [...]  I once went to an allergenist who came up with a long list of things she suspected I was intolerant to and included ‘water’ on the list, which made me feel like giving up!! [...] Unfortunately, the asthma, combined with reflux has had a terrible effect on my breathing and I am now getting panic attacks, just at the thought of getting out of breath. I am not a hypocondriac – these things are genuine.  At present I am also getting a lot of bleeding from congestion at the top of my nose and a lot of mucus with the irritable bowell syndrome. Looks like some of your problems are dietary and some might not be.  Take a look at http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/ibs/ on my website and see if it makes sense to you.  I’m assuming (since you don’t say where you live, and mainly Americans do that) that you’re in the US, in which case Marion and Paul can’t help you, but you might be able to put together a similar treatment plan using therapists local to you. As other folks here have said, if your test results are nonsense you need to go to some sort of elimination procedure to work out what’s going on, and it seems you already have some idea of what the offending foods are.  But to underline what the books will probably tell you anyway: exclusion of a suspected food must be TOTAL if an exclusion diet is to produce meaningful answers.  None of whatever it is in ANY form, however processed. ======== Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

There is now a new product on the market that can remove the dust,mites,hair,smoke, and even allergies all out of the air.  It is a fan that replaces your normal ceiling fan.  It can move 2,400 cubic feet a minute.  It has helped my family out tremdously, we have not woke up with a sore throat or cough in a long time.  I can send you more information about it if your would like. My email adress is krug…@aol.com.

Response:

Dear Ann, You sound A LOT like me. At 50, I have been working on myself for over ten years now and have a pretty good life today–up from debilitating illness in a wheelchair to a full-time professional career and an active partnership in a part-time business. I now can walk on a treadmill at 3 mph for 11 minutes and I’m still improving! Seems small to some, but I’ll gladly take it! But it took me 40 years, chronic hospitalizations with pneumonia, and a colon surgery before I even got a clue about what was causing my problems. Everybody is different. You have to become a serious student of yourself. More importantly, you have to be dedicated about finding a vision of yourself as you want to become. I put up pictures of myself next to healthy people to remind me both of my progress and of my goals. My health and recovery is my "Olympic Championship". Given all the problems you list, I would not proceed on my own without professional help. I found that every professional has some bias, so it helps to interview and assemble a team of people who I call my "advisory council": a general internist who is open-minded about natural approaches but who doesn’t hesitate to prescribe a medical intervention; a nutritionist/dietitian; a psychologist who can teach cognitive-behavioral techniques; and a physical therapist/fitness coach. I learned that a team approach doesn’t cost as much as it sounds because you quickly gain so much more control in your life. I was broke at the time I got started, so I joined a fibromyalgia (chronic muscle pain and fatigue) study at a local medical school. Because I had much to say about it, it was not long before I joined their advisory board. I told them exactly what I wanted to accomplish: health-evaluation, identification of  my personal physical and emotional limitations, and a proactive plan for health in order to reduce those limitations. With their input, I worked up a scientifically sensible approach to lifestyle changes and then held myself accountable to the professionals. I held them accountable to me, too, and told them when their ideas didn’t work! Today, I know what I must avoid, and I avoid it. I know what I must do, and I do it. My main contact today is my internist who sees me every three months and recommends contacts with others as we both see the need. I agree to regular checkpoints, agree upon what is progress, and I celebrate with my team as I achieve it. I have had setbacks, to be sure, like having gall-bladder surgery last fall. Life happens. But believe me, a wholistic approach has made a profound difference in my life. Professionals enjoy working with people on those terms because they have so many patients who are simply too discouraged to try. Like all of us they like to succeed. Feel free to write to me at jhor…@quixnet.net and I will be happy to encourage you at any time. That is the rest of the story. As you conquer your desperation you will bring hope to others. You will help many other people along the way, and that makes life worth living every day. Warm regards for your continued successful journey, Janet (In the US) Ann wrote:

I have always suffered from allergies, but in mid-life these have got worse.  I suspect that all my medical problems are allergy related and so does my GP and consultant at the hospital.  I have got asthma, rhinitis, excma (can’t spell)irritable bowell syndrome and now reflux (although I suspect that the reflux was as a result of three lots of antibiotics.)  I am now trying to eat little and often and cutting out cheese and meat and spicy food, as these seem to cause a lot of problems.  I once went to an allergenist who came up with a long list of things she suspected I was intollerant to and included ‘water’ on the list, which made me feel like giving up!! I am trying also to eat live yoghurts and those small daily milk type drinks which contain helpful bacteria. Unfortunately, the asthma, combined with reflux has had a terrible effect on my breathing and I am now getting panic attacks, just at the thought of getting out of breath. I am not a hypocondriac – these things are genuine.  At present I am also getting a lot of bleeding from congestion at the top of my nose and a lot of mucus with the irritable bowell syndrome. Some days are better than others and sometimes I feel on top of the world for a day.  On other days I just want to sleep. As I said, my doctor is sympathetic but both he and the specialist have not been able to offer much help. I have been on short steroid courses in the past for allergic conditions, but I don’t want to do this again. I use an inhaler for asthma and find that anti-histamines help sometimes. Is there anybody out there who has any suggestions of a diet which has worked for them.  I feel it is down to food more than anything, but tonight, for instance, I did some ironing and, as usual, when I iron I have developed a rash up my right arm which I can only suppose is triggered by the heat on the detergent residue or fabric softener. I know I am a stressful person, but 75% of the stress is caused by always have allergies and then the stress makes it worse. I won’t bore you any longer – but just had to get it all off my chest. Any helpful suggestions out there – please don’t suggest any more doctors, specialists, etc.! Annie * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Hi I tried to send you an Email but it was returned to sender. My son suffers with intollerance to loads of foods and I have put him on a restricted exotic food diet. Duck, Venison and Ostrich which dont have additives or antibiotics in them. He has sweet potatoes, carrots and peaches. I also give him a dietry supplement called Neocate which is an amino acid formual containing all the vitimins and minerals needed. He is a lot better on this boring diet. His rhinitis has gone but would come back if he had a high sodium mineral water and also bedding made of ploypropylene! Vitimins and mineral supplements can cause problems as well. Make sure you’re not diary intollerant if you are having yoghurts, my son craved these and really caused him a lot of problems. There treatments which can tone down the immune system we are looking into these for my son. He is trying sulphasalazine a drug which is used in Chronns disease and arthuritus. Goodluck Val

Response:

Allergies seem to increase as we get older whether it man or women. Some suspects for this seem to be the break down of the body’s immune system. I have files on a lot of different subjects that I would be willing to send anyone upon request via email. Most are from research to find out why my allergies became worse over the years. And why health issues became more prominant as well. — Terri,   Professional consultant for optimal health http://shaklee.net/hojaboom_enterprises "Pauline" <jdrin…@ctaz.com

wrote in message

news:IaRE4.162$S14.33164@news-west.eli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From Pauline:  You mentioned that your allergies have gotten worse in mid-life.  Could I ask are you in you 40’s or 50’s, and in menopause or

just

past?  And are you on any estrogen hormone

Response:

ann <annkonashNOanS…@yahoo.com.invalid

writes: I have got asthma, rhinitis, [eczema] irritable bowel syndrome and now reflux [...]  I once went to an allergenist who came up with a long list of things she suspected I was intolerant to and included ‘water’ on the list, which made me feel like giving up!! [...] Unfortunately, the asthma, combined with reflux has had a terrible effect on my breathing and I am now getting panic attacks, just at the thought of getting out of breath. I am not a hypocondriac – these things are genuine.  At present I am also getting a lot of bleeding from congestion at the top of my nose and a lot of mucus with the irritable bowell syndrome.

Looks like some of your problems are dietary and some might not be.  Take a look at http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/ibs/ on my website and see if it makes sense to you.  I’m assuming (since you don’t say where you live, and mainly Americans do that) that you’re in the US, in which case Marion and Paul can’t help you, but you might be able to put together a similar treatment plan using therapists local to you. As other folks here have said, if your test results are nonsense you need to go to some sort of elimination procedure to work out what’s going on, and it seems you already have some idea of what the offending foods are.  But to underline what the books will probably tell you anyway: exclusion of a suspected food must be TOTAL if an exclusion diet is to produce meaningful answers.  None of whatever it is in ANY form, however processed. ========

Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

My four year son has suffered with intollerances to nearly all foods for three years. He was very asthmatic, lots of rhinitus and has reflux and constipation and muscle stiffness and pains. I have put him on a strict diet of exotic meats (no antibotics in these) such as ostrich, venison,duck, we tried Kangaroo but this was a bit rich for him. I add carrots and sweet potatoes and he has this all day every day. I have recently added a nutritional formula which is called Neocate .This is amino acids broken down into easily digested forms with all the vitimins and minerals added inthe correct balance. My son cant tollerate any diary or soya or wheat. Lots of additives make his symptons worse. Even a high sodium mineral water made him have asthma! Small amounts of sugar are not good for him and even calcium supplements made his breathing constipaion bad. You may be able to get an amino acid formula which might help restore the balance in your stomach and bowel. Try a very limited diet for a week and keep a detailed record of everything you take including medicines and vitimins. You may see a pattern emerging. Sorry this is so long do contact me again if I can help. Val Purkis

Response:

Thanks, I am actually living in Norfolk England. I have printed off the details given on your Web Site. Ann * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Megs Thanks for your reply.  I would like to send you an e-mail but don’t know how to get your e-mail address (obviously not very computer literate. Please let me know the answer Ann * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Hi – Dr. Doris Rapp’s book "Is This Your Child" is published in the USA.  I don’t know if it’s published elsewhere.  If you can’t get it locally, you can get it through http://www.amazon.com, the US’s loudest on-line bookseller. –Beth Kevles   kev…@mit.edu   http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html — a page for the milk-allergic

Response:

When I come in contact with mold my stomach starts aching real bad. Actually it starts in my stomach and esophagus. Last summer was the first time I started having allergic reactions when the pollen & mold levels got high. I was having panic attacks because of the reflex reaction in my stomach. A allergy Dr. told me that what happens is the mold allergens get in my nose and causes sinus drip which goes into my stomach which triggers the cramps and acid reflex.

Also, pain originating in the lungs can appear to be from other parts of the body – flu is mainly a lung disease, but people often get back ache from it. I occasionally get oesophageal spasm.  The first time it happened I thought I was having a heart attack, so I can understand how you feel.  I figured out that swallowing sticky or oily substances like honey, jam or olive oil helped relieve it.

It also gives me the sensation of not being able to catch my breath which would usually cause the panic attacks.

This is nasty and can be very dangerous.  It might be worth while getting this reaction treated (by a combination of psychological techniques and anti-panic drugs like beta-blockers) independently of the underlying allergy. Desensitization can help with mould allergy, but the best solution is to move somewhere with a dryer climate.  Mould in a house is usually impossible to remove entirely and requires drastic building work to reduce at all.  If you’re being affected by moulds in trees or soils in your neighbourhood you obviously can’t remove them.

I also have problems with just about every food.

This is beginning to sound like gut dysbiosis (formerly mislabelled "candida") which is tricky to treat – needs a combination of several approaches at once.  Find a doctor who specializes in it.  Your problems are very much like those of a lot of the patients Marion here deals with; you certainly aren’t alone but there isn’t going to be a magic fix, either.

I don’t think there’s any antibiotic that I can take.

This is a common problem wih gut dysbiosis, too. Be prepared for a rather complicated treatment regime.  You might end up needing *all* of: – moving house – replacing your furniture and removing carpets – nutritional supplements and extra digestive enzymes – a diet that excludes mould-related substances like yeast, and   perhaps also cuts out some food alergens you haven’t thought of – desensitization of some sort – anti-panic counselling and drugs – different antihistamines. ========

Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

In article <0062c5dd.0a037…@usw-ex0110-075.remarq.com

, ann

<annkonashNOanS…@yahoo.com.invalid

wrote: Thanks Val for your mail. I too get muscle aches and weaknesses.  I am going to try vegetables and fruit only for a while and then perhaps bio yoghurt.  I have cut right down on tea and coffee and am trying to drink lots of water.

I found that tomatoes were one of the my problems – try to exclude them (and potatoes – same family) for a while – in me the results were staggering (although I’m suffering today for my weakness in having pizza last night!).  Or perhaps that should be not staggering – because I wasn’t anymore. Sweet potatoes are a good alternative – I can get them at my local market, but I am in Wolverhampton and I am not sure it will be as easy in Norfolk!  Asda sell sweet potatoes as well (and their’s are my favourite variety).  They work well roasted, although the white flesh ones need to be pre-boiled.  Otherwise boil or mash as normal.

I also find that I have put on an excessive amount of weight, which I have read can be an allergy problem.  I really don’t eat very much so this seems quite likely. Most of the replies I have had are from the USA and I am in England.  I will look in the health food stores for some suitable foodstuffs.

What is available here is not as good as what is available in the US in some cases, but we benefit from better food labelling (although I still had to make a complaint at Asda last night because they don’t have an ingredients list available for their instore bread). I may still have the details of the elimination diet I was put on last year if you would like me to send them, if I can’t find them I can remember it all! E-mail me privately if you want the details – plus I’ll have a think on what I found useful in the shops BTW, are you vegetarian? Megs * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi – You want to pick up a book by Dr. Doris Rapp called "Is This Your Child?".  It includes explanations about how to track down food and other allergies, using elimination and multiple elimination diets (for the food allergies).  Although it is geared to parents, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t find the book invaluable.   You can get it on amazon.com if you can’t get it locally. Don’t give up!  You CAN track down the source(s) of your trouble, and start to feel lots better. Good luck, –Beth Kevles   kev…@mit.edu   http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html — a page for the milk-allergic

Response:

Question:

Tracey F. Presser wrote Maybe once or twice a week I have a small can of V-8 (the 5.5 oz. minicans).

and Spidamyst replied Well okay here’s my .02 Tracey, For starters, kiss that V-8 goodbye. I don’t know what the carb count is on that can, but anything made with tomatoes is a nono, particularly if you are having problems losing weight. Tomatoes and tomato juice type products are carby (and loaded with sodium to boot).

I just received nutrition information from Campbell Soup, Canada. According to their info in 250 ml of V8 there is 1.3 g of protein, 0.4 g of fat, 8.7 g of carbohydrate, 643 mg of sodium and 496 of potassium. So I think that means in a mini-can of 5.5 ounces there are 5.98g of carbs, 442 mg of sodium and 341 mg of potassium. So if you are doing PP and having about 10 g of carbs a meal, it would be ok, sometimes. Hope that helps. Jillian 300/280.5/250/150

Response:

In defense of V8–a very small defense at that.  When I make a LARGE batch of BBQ sauce, I add a small bottle of V8 to the batch because it doesn’t really have THAT much tomato in it and adds a lot of flavor.  OF COURSE I count the carbs, but it is less than if I added ketsup or tomato sauce or paste.  VERY SMALL DEFENSE but a defense none the less.  <g Cheryl Combo Atkins/Protein Power Since May 25, 1999 186/164/120

Response:

Lady Eve,   I am truly feeling for you right now.  I have worked weekends and the summer for 5 years at our county mental In-Patient facility.  Unless you’ve been there, you really have no idea what goes on.  The only comfort I can give you is that she was successful and is at peace now.  We have so many mentally ill people that can’t live with their illness and try to take their lives and end up a vegetable.  It’s like any illness.  You have to hold on because new breakthroughs are happening every day! For those of you out there that want to get off your meds, great.  BUT do it with your doctor.  I truly believe in the WOE and have read a lot of research and it does make a big difference in a lot of people and that’s just not in losing weight!   St. John’s Wort CAN be beneficial to the every day person who is feeling low and having a rough time.  BUT you should also se a Doctor.  Even St John’s Wort has a terrible side effect.  It causes your eyes to be very sensitive to light and will allow damage to occur to your retina.  So, take heed!!!! Hugs to you, Eve!   MarkieZ You know,  I love everyone and there is no one out there in the world that does deserve help!  Did I say that?  Well, I’m a Republican, socially liberal, fiscally conservative!   I feel a little vehement about people advising others to not take their medication because I lost a good friend to suicide  over a week ago because she had been told that St. John’s Wort was just as good as Prozac. I shouldn’t be bringing my stuff to your innocent question. I really apologize, again. Lady Eve — Tracey Presser

x-no-archive: yes http://www.IntoThe.Net

Response:

Lady Eve, I am so sorry you lost your friend.  About a year ago I also lost a friend to suicide.  It never makes sense.  I wasn’t criticizing you, I’m just a little sensitive.  I was afraid people would think I was REALLY off kilter or something.  I also have a step-brother who is schizophrenic so you can see where I’m bring some of my "stuff" into the situation too.  I’m just glad I was able to share it here.  I hope to keep posting here for a long time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .  I suffer from a panic disorder so I take the Klonopin on occasion when the anxiety is extreme (by the way, Klonopin is NOT used to treat schizophrenia.  It is an anti-seizure medication that also has a tranquilizing effect without the addiction potential of medications such as Xanax). I’m sorry you are so right. I was thinking of Clozapine, not Klonopin. Which is  exactly why a professional needs to be involved instead of a lay man like me.  I’m sorry if I upset you. I feel a little vehement about people advising others to not take their medication because I lost a good friend to suicide  over a week ago because she had been told that St. John’s Wort was just as good as Prozac. I shouldn’t be bringing my stuff to your innocent question. I really apologize, again. Lady Eve

– Tracey Presser

Response:

<snip Medicines: I take Depakote and Wellbutrin for depression, a very low dose of Synthroid for hypothyroidism.   <snip Depakote in particular is flagged in my drug book as maybe causing a false ketone positive.  Besides depression it’s used as an antiseizure medication for epilepsy.  Klonopin is also in the antiseizure family.  My doctor just wrote me a scrip for Xenical but I would like some feedback from the group before starting it.

Hi Tracey, I was on Depakote for about two years for migraines control (1750 a day – 500 in the am and 750 before bed).  I eventually had to go off it because of the bad side effects – appetite stimulation and hand tremors.  The amount I needed to control the migraines continually increased, and eventually the side effects became bad enough for me to ask my doctor for something else (Verapamil). I gained at least 30 lbs while I was taking Depakote, maybe more.  I was off this med before I started LC, so I don’t know if the appetite stimulant effect would be mitigated by the natural appetite suppressant of being in ketosis. I don’t know if you have this side effect, but it is just something to watch for. If you gained weight when you started taking it, maybe you can talk to your doctor about an alternative medication. Good Luck. Barb

Response:

dear lady eve, i am sorry about your friend! i too get really upset, when i see ANY advise given about reducing ANY meds without the assistance of a health professional! your in my  thoughts! — 8-26-82 was the first day of the rest of my life! HAPPY, JOYOUS AND FREE read and post and share, rosie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .  I suffer from a panic disorder so I take the Klonopin on occasion when the anxiety is extreme (by the way, Klonopin is NOT used to treat schizophrenia.  It is an anti-seizure medication that also has a tranquilizing effect without the addiction potential of medications such as Xanax). I’m sorry you are so right. I was thinking of Clozapine, not Klonopin. Which is  exactly why a professional needs to be involved instead of a lay man like me.  I’m sorry if I upset you. I feel a little vehement about people advising others to not take their medication because I lost a good friend to suicide  over a week ago because she had been told that St. John’s Wort was just as good as Prozac. I shouldn’t be bringing my stuff to your innocent question. I really apologize, again. Lady Eve

Response:

.  I suffer from a panic disorder so I take the Klonopin on occasion when the anxiety is extreme (by the way, Klonopin is NOT used to treat schizophrenia.  It is an anti-seizure medication that also has a tranquilizing effect without the addiction potential of medications such as Xanax).

I’m sorry you are so right. I was thinking of Clozapine, not Klonopin. Which is  exactly why a professional needs to be involved instead of a lay man like me.  I’m sorry if I upset you. I feel a little vehement about people advising others to not take their medication because I lost a good friend to suicide  over a week ago because she had been told that St. John’s Wort was just as good as Prozac. I shouldn’t be bringing my stuff to your innocent question. I really apologize, again. Lady Eve

Response:

Thanks for the welcome Rosie.  I have to admit, even though I asked for the advice, I wanted to crawl back under a rock after reading some of the responses.  It’s a big risk putting yourself out there for scrutiny and some people aren’t as tactful as I had hoped for. I can see much clearer now where I made my mistakes but I also didn’t describe acurately enough all of my stuff because I was mainly venting. I looked up tomato sauce in the Atkins carbo counter and it says 4 grams per 1/4 cup of sauce and this is true because I made the sauce myself so I know there was no added sugars.  I did not eat a lot of the sauce either.  But if anyone can tell me why it’s so bad to eat I would like to know.  My brother is currently reading my Atkins book so I don’t have it handy.  Also, I have read the Atkins New Diet Revolution AND the Protein Power Plan book.  I originally started with PPP but gave up on it after a week or so because I had such bad headaches (probably from detoxing).  I still have headaches with Atkins but I’ve been trying to work through it. I don’t eat a lot of veggies and no fruit at all.  I do have to watch my onion intake though.  I mistakenly remembered a wrong carb count in my head and there are more carbs in them then one would think. No diet soda, no caffeine.  I drink mint tea and green tea with Stevia or Sugar Twin. The Sugar Twin is the same thing as Sweet n Low, saccharine.  I just ordered some Splenda.  I do take GNC Ultra Mega Gold vitamins and a calcium supplement.  I have the protein shake with water for breakfast because the sight of food in the morning really makes me queasy sometimes.  It only has 2 grams of carbs per serving and I only have it for breakfast.  My ketostix have been consistently in the trace to small amount range. As for my medications, that’s a tough one.  I have suffered from clinical depression since early childhood and have taken meds for the past 9 years.  I have tried on at least 3 occasions to come off the medication with very bad results.  I am going to try and switch from Depakote to Neurontin though because I have heard from my friend (also a psychiatrist) that Depakote can tend to make you put on weight.  I suffer from a panic disorder so I take the Klonopin on occasion when the anxiety is extreme (by the way, Klonopin is NOT used to treat schizophrenia.  It is an anti-seizure medication that also has a tranquilizing effect without the addiction potential of medications such as Xanax). And, since this is getting WAY too long, I will post what I ate today in another posting.  Thanks again everyone. dear tracey, my bet is that your medications are throwing you off big time! i take meds that have the reputation of slowing  weight loss, and do not consider stopping the meds, as an option. my weight loss (the numbers) has been slow, but my reference jeans are telling me, that i have lost alot of inches,just fine! i love how i feel, eating LC and i think that it has improved my depression abit also! welcome to the group! rosie —

– Tracey Presser

Response:

read ‘the ketogenic diet’ by parker.  get the real story – throw your atkins book away (well, keep the recipes  understand exactly what’s heppening to your body. anti-depressants can effect a ketogenic diet, but it does sound like you’re in ketosis.  if in doubt, consult a physician.  take it slow, this isn’t a race to lose pounds.  incorporate some resistance training and low aerobics into your diet.  the metabolic side-effects will be worth it (not to mention the indirect physical/mental benefits).  have realistic expectations, and enjoy the times when they are exceeded.  retrain yourself to eat differently.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for the welcome Rosie.  I have to admit, even though I asked for the advice, I wanted to crawl back under a rock after reading some of the responses.  It’s a big risk putting yourself out there for scrutiny and some people aren’t as tactful as I had hoped for. I can see much clearer now where I made my mistakes but I also didn’t describe acurately enough all of my stuff because I was mainly venting. I looked up tomato sauce in the Atkins carbo counter and it says 4 grams per 1/4 cup of sauce and this is true because I made the sauce myself so I know there was no added sugars.  I did not eat a lot of the sauce either.  But if anyone can tell me why it’s so bad to eat I would like to know.  My brother is currently reading my Atkins book so I don’t have it handy.  Also, I have read the Atkins New Diet Revolution AND the Protein Power Plan book.  I originally started with PPP but gave up on it after a week or so because I had such bad headaches (probably from detoxing).  I still have headaches with Atkins but I’ve been trying to work through it. I don’t eat a lot of veggies and no fruit at all.  I do have to watch my onion intake though.  I mistakenly remembered a wrong carb count in my head and there are more carbs in them then one would think. No diet soda, no caffeine.  I drink mint tea and green tea with Stevia or Sugar Twin. The Sugar Twin is the same thing as Sweet n Low, saccharine.  I just ordered some Splenda.  I do take GNC Ultra Mega Gold vitamins and a calcium supplement.  I have the protein shake with water for breakfast because the sight of food in the morning really makes me queasy sometimes.  It only has 2 grams of carbs per serving and I only have it for breakfast.  My ketostix have been consistently in the trace to small amount range. As for my medications, that’s a tough one.  I have suffered from clinical depression since early childhood and have taken meds for the past 9 years.  I have tried on at least 3 occasions to come off the medication with very bad results.  I am going to try and switch from Depakote to Neurontin though because I have heard from my friend (also a psychiatrist) that Depakote can tend to make you put on weight.  I suffer from a panic disorder so I take the Klonopin on occasion when the anxiety is extreme (by the way, Klonopin is NOT used to treat schizophrenia.  It is an anti-seizure medication that also has a tranquilizing effect without the addiction potential of medications such as Xanax). And, since this is getting WAY too long, I will post what I ate today in another posting.  Thanks again everyone. dear tracey, my bet is that your medications are throwing you off big time! i take meds that have the reputation of slowing  weight loss, and do not consider stopping the meds, as an option. my weight loss (the numbers) has been slow, but my reference jeans are telling me, that i have lost alot of inches,just fine! i love how i feel, eating LC and i think that it has improved my depression abit also! welcome to the group! rosie — — Tracey Presser

Response:

Tracey: Some of the things that I put a red flag on for the possiblity of your stall is your medications, Is there anyway you can get them scaled down???  that is an awful lot.  and I know.  I have been in therapy for years!!  I have found that SAM-E (try GNC for the cheapest price) along with Valerian and Kava Kava (herbs) have about the same effect and do not stall you out on the weight loss.  and if you want to drink alcohol, only drink Miller Lite beer (3.9g per  12 oz) or hard liquor (0 grams) NEVER a mixer except for diet soda or club soda. they are FULL of sugars.  It is hard to know where the carbs are until you are trained.  so suspect EVERYTHING and don’t eat or drink it until you look it up.  carry a carb counter with you it will help.  You can do this!!!  hang in there Cheryl Combo Atkins/Protein Power Since May 25, 1999 186/164/120

Response:

dear tracey, find this a very safe and comfortable newsgroup usually, and when its not, i blame it on a "full moon". i hope that you will have a long talk with your doctor about switching your meds, as i know that DEPAKOTE does have a real bad reputation with stalling weight loss. tho, i have seen it done, i don’t believe it has to be that difficult. yes, i saw that reference to Klonopin and its uses also, but just let it attacks, along with behavior mod. and it works very well. i will be watching for you posts! rosie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for the welcome Rosie.  I have to admit, even though I asked for the advice, I wanted to crawl back under a rock after reading some of the responses.  It’s a big risk putting yourself out there for scrutiny and some people aren’t as tactful as I had hoped for. I can see much clearer now where I made my mistakes but I also didn’t describe acurately enough all of my stuff because I was mainly venting. I looked up tomato sauce in the Atkins carbo counter and it says 4 grams per 1/4 cup of sauce and this is true because I made the sauce myself so I know there was no added sugars.  I did not eat a lot of the sauce either.  But if anyone can tell me why it’s so bad to eat I would like to know.  My brother is currently reading my Atkins book so I don’t have it handy.  Also, I have read the Atkins New Diet Revolution AND the Protein Power Plan book.  I originally started with PPP but gave up on it after a week or so because I had such bad headaches (probably from detoxing).  I still have headaches with Atkins but I’ve been trying to work through it. I don’t eat a lot of veggies and no fruit at all.  I do have to watch my onion intake though.  I mistakenly remembered a wrong carb count in my head and there are more carbs in them then one would think. No diet soda, no caffeine.  I drink mint tea and green tea with Stevia or Sugar Twin. The Sugar Twin is the same thing as Sweet n Low, saccharine.  I just ordered some Splenda.  I do take GNC Ultra Mega Gold vitamins and a calcium supplement.  I have the protein shake with water for breakfast because the sight of food in the morning really makes me queasy sometimes.  It only has 2 grams of carbs per serving and I only have it for breakfast.  My ketostix have been consistently in the trace to small amount range. As for my medications, that’s a tough one.  I have suffered from clinical depression since early childhood and have taken meds for the past 9 years.  I have tried on at least 3 occasions to come off the medication with very bad results.  I am going to try and switch from Depakote to Neurontin though because I have heard from my friend (also a psychiatrist) that Depakote can tend to make you put on weight.  I suffer from a panic disorder so I take the Klonopin on occasion when the anxiety is extreme (by the way, Klonopin is NOT used to treat schizophrenia.  It is an anti-seizure medication that also has a tranquilizing effect without the addiction potential of medications such as Xanax). And, since this is getting WAY too long, I will post what I ate today in another posting.  Thanks again everyone. dear tracey, my bet is that your medications are throwing you off big time! i take meds that have the reputation of slowing  weight loss, and do not consider stopping the meds, as an option. my weight loss (the numbers) has been slow, but my reference jeans are telling me, that i have lost alot of inches,just fine! i love how i feel, eating LC and i think that it has improved my depression abit also! welcome to the group! rosie — — Tracey Presser

Response:

wow, spida you did a terrific job, being a LC POLICE on her menu! thanks! — read and post and share! rosie We also begin to see others more clearly.  We see good in people we don’t like.  And we see faults in people we thought were perfect.  But we don’t judge people anymore.  Nobody is perfect.  Just as our friends accept us as we are, we learn to accept others.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I typically drink in a day about 72 oz. of water and some other assorted herbal teas (caffeine free) sweetened with Stevia or SugarTwin. Maybe once or twice a week I have a small can of V-8 (the 5.5 oz. minicans).  I don’t drink diet soda because Nutrasweet makes me very sick.  I think that covers it for the liquids. Well okay here’s my .02 Tracey, For starters, kiss that V-8 goodbye. I don’t know what the carb count is on that can, but anything made with tomatoes is a nono, particularly if you are having problems losing weight. Tomatoes and tomato juice type products are carby (and loaded with sodium to boot). For breakfast, I have been having Atkins’ protein shake (expensive!!) but since I ran out, this morning I had a 3-egg omelet with about an ounce of cheese, a slice of Canadian bacon and 3 strips of regular bacon. I don’t really see much problem here. I am unfamiliar with the protein shakes. You may want to try cutting out the bacon and see if that helps. Personally, I have 2-3 eggs in butter every morning to start off my day and find it effective for starting my daily fat burning.  I think of butter as medication that’s easy to take For lunch I had a meatball, a small piece of sausage, and about 2 oz. of chicken in spaghetti sauce that I made myself (including the meat, no breadcrumbs in the meatballs) over about a cup of spaghetti squash. Sometimes at work we go out to eat at the Chinese restaurant and I eat only meat and veggie dishes, no rice or starch. Hmmm… I think you could have some problems here.. read the package on that sausage and be sure it contains no sugar.   Spaghetti sauce?  That’s a tomato product.. already told you my feelings on that.. skip the spaghetti sauce and raise your chicken portion from 2 measly ounces to half a damn bird if you’re hungry!!  I don’t know what spaghetti squash is but you should probably check the carb content of that and some of the other veggies you eat. Some veggies are much lower in carbs than others. Try to stick to the lowest carb ones. (lettuce, cucumber, radish, cauliflower.)  As for the chinese food, well, herein could lie a large part of your problem.  You may be eating only meat and veggie dishes, but if these are not plain boring steamed dishes,  then they are the yummy dishes in some kind of sauce. Sadly, most chinese sauces (and soups!) contain cornstarch and/or sugar. (oyster sauce, duck sauce, plum sauce, black bean sauce.. oh hell all of them.. *sigh*)  My mother called me today whining that she ate 3 spareribs at a chinese food place last nite and she was up 3 lbs today..  rib sauce is loaded with carbs.. loaded.. my favorite rib sauce has 24 grams per tablespoon!! I have given up chinese food (my favorite).. and you should probably do the same. The only major booboos I can think of are drinking a lite beer at dinner once; another time a margarita (on the rocks, not frozen) at Red Lobster; and a flavored coffee which might have had real sugar (despite my hitting the SweetNLo button).  I also have had popcorn about 4 times in the past 2 weeks, but not too large a portion each time. well yeah.. booze is a big ol’ nono.. at least for me.  Of course that margarita, as you already know, was a sugar bomb.. lemon mix is loaded with it.  You know, this is the first time I realized that I can’t have margaritas anymore.. damn.  Well, everytime I drink, I gain weight anyway.. so either I’m in the mood to deal with the weight gain (water retention) or I simply don’t drink.  Basically I think that unless it’s a special occasion or big whopping party.. I’m not going to drink anymore.  Caffeine bad, flavored or unflavored.  Popcorn also not a good idea since you are not losing.. wait on these things until you start dropping weight regularly. Are my major booboos enough to wreck the whole entire diet?  I didn’t do any of these booboos during Induction. If you ate chinese food (major booboo anytime) on induction, and drank V-8 and made spaghetti sauce.. then yes you did make booboos on induction.. I would start induction over again and skip all that carby, salty stuff this time.  Remember that atkins does point out: The lower the carb intake, the faster the weight loss. I am on week six or something like that now and I’m still on induction levels of carbs. Since I know there are probably some hidden carbs that i’m missing, I think induction is a good place to be… I generally shoot for about 10-12 grams of carbs.. which means I probably eat around 20.  I have lost 22 lbs and have 50 more to go.. If you weren’t losing much on 20 grams of carbs.. then you really shouldn’t raise that number.. in fact, you may want to eat even fewer.. or go on the meat fast as some have already recommended. I’m not going to comment on the medication part. I’ll let the experts handle that.. I don’t know much about them except that wellbutrin can definitely affect weight loss.   You said you have 200 lbs to lose. Unless you are severely metabolically resistant  (and you may well be but lets assume for now that you aren’t),  you should have lost quite a bit more weight over the course of your first month.  Please try again without the carby tomatoey stuff and chinese food and popcorn and booze..  and let us know how it goes. Also, if you aren’t getting any exercise, please give walking a try too.. it can really help a lot .. and it gets easier and easier.. Even if you don’t do too much, some is better than none anytime. Hope some of this is helpful.  Don’t give up.. just try again and really count your carbs this time.  A good rule of thumb is, if you don’t know the carb count of something.. don’t eat it. Gratz on your delurked status and welcome to the group!! Spida

Response:

dear tracey, my bet is that your medications are throwing you off big time! i take meds that have the reputation of slowing  weight loss, and do not consider stopping the meds, as an option. my weight loss (the numbers) has been slow, but my reference jeans are telling me, that i have lost alot of inches,just fine! i love how i feel, eating LC and i think that it has improved my depression abit also! welcome to the group! rosie — read and post and share! rosie We also begin to see others more clearly.  We see good in people we don’t like.  And we see faults in people we thought were perfect.  But we don’t judge people anymore.  Nobody is perfect.  Just as our friends accept us as we are, we learn to accept others.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thank you, thank you, thank you, everybody, for replying.  I resisted that "devil’s brew" and did not have the Pepsi.  Since you’re just the carb police and not the FAT NAZIS I will tell you honestly what I eat on a daily basis as best I can. NOTE: I try to drink a lot of water but I know I am falling short of the mark. I typically drink in a day about 72 oz. of water and some other assorted herbal teas (caffeine free) sweetened with Stevia or SugarTwin. Maybe once or twice a week I have a small can of V-8 (the 5.5 oz. minicans).  I don’t drink diet soda because Nutrasweet makes me very sick.  I think that covers it for the liquids. For breakfast, I have been having Atkins’ protein shake (expensive!!) but since I ran out, this morning I had a 3-egg omelet with about an ounce of cheese, a slice of Canadian bacon and 3 strips of regular bacon. For lunch I had a meatball, a small piece of sausage, and about 2 oz. of chicken in spaghetti sauce that I made myself (including the meat, no breadcrumbs in the meatballs) over about a cup of spaghetti squash. Sometimes at work we go out to eat at the Chinese restaurant and I eat only meat and veggie dishes, no rice or starch. For dinner this evening, I made the Revamped Cottage Pie (double recipe) from the asdl-c cookbook.  I ate a lot of it, I guess maybe about 3/4 lb ground beef and a proportionate amount of the rest of it. For a snack which I may have in the late afternoon, I eat pork rinds, sometimes with cream cheese as a dip.  I have made the Atkins ice cream, but find it too rich and only eat a small portion if at all.  I’m eager to try the ice cream recipes from the cookbook, but I want to buy an ice cream maker first. The only major booboos I can think of are drinking a lite beer at dinner once; another time a margarita (on the rocks, not frozen) at Red Lobster; and a flavored coffee which might have had real sugar (despite my hitting the SweetNLo button).  I also have had popcorn about 4 times in the past 2 weeks, but not too large a portion each time. Are my major booboos enough to wreck the whole entire diet?  I didn’t do any of these booboos during Induction. Medicines: I take Depakote and Wellbutrin for depression, a very low dose of Synthroid for hypothyroidism.  On occasion I take Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.  Also take Allegra-D, MaxAir inhaler, and Flovent inhaler for asthma/allergies.  I have a nebulizer but I use it very rarely with Proventil. Depakote in particular is flagged in my drug book as maybe causing a false ketone positive.  Besides depression it’s used as an antiseizure medication for epilepsy.  Klonopin is also in the antiseizure family.  My doctor just wrote me a scrip for Xenical but I would like some feedback from the group before starting it. I know this was really long and I appreciate anyone who took the time to read this.  Thank you for your help and support. A NOTE FROM THE HUSBAND.  I am Ross Presser, who’s been posting a few times during the past week. Tracey posted earlier today completely without my knowledge or consent, so all the kudos for delurking belongs to her not me. I love this lady! — Ross — Tracey Presser

Response:

I have been on Atkins for exactly 30 days today and lost about 3.5 lbs.  Is this right?  I have to lose about 200lbs and at this rate I will die of heart disease or old age or something first.  I have cut out every single carb and food I love out of my life.  I went through major detox the first two weeks just to get off Pepsi.  (I’m whining here but it was really hard for me.)  I read the book, pee on the sticks, printed out the cookbook, etc.  So what am I doing wrong???  Maybe I’m still just eating too much fat???  I was still getting so hungry all the time that I ate something whenever I felt hungry but always the right stuff.  I’m terribly afraid that I may be one of those "one in a million" fat intolerant misfits Atkins spoke of in his book.  I am just SOOOO discouraged.  Meanwhile, my husband has lost about 13lbs and is happier than a pig in doo doo.  Anyone else here have major amounts of weight to lose and had this happen?  Also, does anyone else here take Valproic Acid (either Depakene or Depakote) and found that it is giving their ketostix a false positive?  I’m paranoid about this one because the stick turns pink but now I don’t trust it. I’m "this close" to having a Pepsi.  Someone, talk me down please!!!

Response:

Don’t do it!!! Stick with it. I’m not sure exactly what your problem is, but I’m sure you will get a lot of responses and a lot of good advice. Hold on, someone will be able to help. C’mon regulars! Anyone got any ideas? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on Atkins for exactly 30 days today and lost about 3.5 lbs.  Is this right?  I have to lose about 200lbs and at this rate I will die of heart disease or old age or something first.  I have cut out every single carb and food I love out of my life.  I went through major detox the first two weeks just to get off Pepsi.  (I’m whining here but it was really hard for me.)  I read the book, pee on the sticks, printed out the cookbook, etc.  So what am I doing wrong???  Maybe I’m still just eating too much fat???  I was still getting so hungry all the time that I ate something whenever I felt hungry but always the right stuff.  I’m terribly afraid that I may be one of those "one in a million" fat intolerant misfits Atkins spoke of in his book.  I am just SOOOO discouraged.  Meanwhile, my husband has lost about 13lbs and is happier than a pig in doo doo.  Anyone else here have major amounts of weight to lose and had this happen?  Also, does anyone else here take Valproic Acid (either Depakene or Depakote) and found that it is giving their ketostix a false positive?  I’m paranoid about this one because the stick turns pink but now I don’t trust it. I’m "this close" to having a Pepsi.  Someone, talk me down please!!!

Response:

I have been on Atkins for exactly 30 days today and lost about 3.5 lbs.  Is this right?  I have to lose about 200lbs and at this rate I will die of heart disease or old age or something first.  I have cut out

every single carb and food I love out of my life.  I went through major detox the first two weeks just to get off Pepsi.  (I’m whining here but it was really hard for me.)  I read the book, pee on the sticks, printed out the cookbook, etc.  So what am I doing wrong???  Maybe I’m still just eating too much fat???   I was still getting so hungry all the time that I ate something

whenever I felt hungry but always the right stuff.  I’m terribly afraid that I may be

one of those "one in a million" fat intolerant misfits Atkins spoke of in his

book.  I am just SOOOO discouraged.  Meanwhile, my husband has lost about 13lbs

and is happier than a pig in doo doo.  Anyone else here have major amounts of

weight to lose and had this happen?  Also, does anyone else here take Valproic

Acid (either Depakene or Depakote) and found that it is giving their ketostix a

false positive?  I’m paranoid about this one because the stick turns pink but

now I don’t trust it. I’m "this close" to having a Pepsi.  Someone, talk me down please!!!

Welcome. Don’t lurk anymore, join us. I’d just like to point out a few things for you to ponder. 1. Don’t compare your husband’s weight loss to yours. Men generally lose faster than women as a rule, so that’s not a fair comparison 2. Post a typical day’s diet (be honest) and the carb police will look it over for further suggestions. There may be something you’re eating with hidden carbs you’re totally unaware of, or there could be too much salt in your diet, making you retain water. 3. Medications have been known to stall weight loss. Can you explain what kind of medication this is (i.e., tranquilizer, anti-depressant, blood pressure medication???) 4. There is no reason for you to be hungry. None. You actually may not be getting enough calories and your body may have gone into starvation mode (yes, it’s possible). You can eat a lot more calories on this WOE than on low-fat diets. Those who have never been on this WOE before have a hard time adjusting to just how much food they can eat, and tend to deprive themselves for no reason. If you want deprivation, go on a low-fat diet (ha,ha) This is another reason to post your day’s eating AND drinking habitsl so we can make a judgment. 5. Are you drinking lots of water? Another potential stall-causer is drinking too little water. You should probably be drinking somewhere in the nature of 80 oz daily. Don’t give up and don’t stop posting. We’re all here to support you. A lot of us have been on this WOE long enough to have made our own mistakes and learned from them, so you’re drawing on a large body of information out here. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

What I would do is go on the meat fast for a week.  It might help you find out what is stalling you.  Here are the basics: 1.  Drink 64 oz water + 8 oz for every 25 lbs you need to lose, so drink at least 96 oz of just water. 2.  Don’t have any caffine.  None, it might be stalling you. 3.  Don’t have any citric acid.  It also might stall you. 4.  Aspertaime also can stall you…so none. 5.  Eat Meat, eggs, fish, poultry.  Nothing processed.  You have to cook it all and know that it has no chemicals in it.  Some people even find that a particular type of meat makes them loose.  All beef or all chicken.   So, NO lunch meat, no cheese, and no bacon!  (YIKES) I think some spices are ok and I still use fresh garlic. 6.  You can have mayonaise, olive oil, flaxseed oil. 7.  Besides weighing yourself, take measurements or find a pair of "reference" jeans to try on every once and awhile. If you do this and you lose, then add 1/2 cup of salad.  Add one thing at a time.  Check for your loosing or gaining.  If you are a Diet Pepsi fan, like me, add that for 3 or 4 days and if you still lose, you know that it’s ok.  Next add something new.  Maybe bacon.  If you still loose, then you know you can have that, if not, it could be the nitrates in it.  It’s in almost all processes meats. Continue until you find what it is that stalling you!  Personally, I have to watch cheese and nuts.  Hope this helps a little.  You shouldn’t be hungry, though.  Check that you are getting enough calories.  If not, sip some fax-seed oil with a water chaser.  If you don’t want to go through this, at least measure yourself and post your menu for a couple of days.  The carb police will help you out! Good Luck!  It is well worth the effort and we all have needed the advice.  Oh, Yea!  The best thing you could have done is stopped lurking!!!  Great role-model for all those lurkers out there!  Get involved! MarkieZ 216/192/150 7-6-99 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been on Atkins for exactly 30 days today and lost about 3.5 lbs.  Is this right?  I have to lose about 200lbs and at this rate I will die of heart disease or old age or something first.  I have cut out every single carb and food I love out of my life.  I went through major detox the first two weeks just to get off Pepsi.  (I’m whining here but it was really hard for me.)  I read the book, pee on the sticks, printed out the cookbook, etc.  So what am I doing wrong???  Maybe I’m still just eating too much fat???  I was still getting so hungry all the time that I ate something whenever I felt hungry but always the right stuff.  I’m terribly afraid that I may be one of those "one in a million" fat intolerant misfits Atkins spoke of in his book.  I am just SOOOO discouraged.  Meanwhile, my husband has lost about 13lbs and is happier than a pig in doo doo.  Anyone else here have major amounts of weight to lose and had this happen?  Also, does anyone else here take Valproic Acid (either Depakene or Depakote) and found that it is giving their ketostix a false positive?  I’m paranoid about this one because the stick turns pink but now I don’t trust it. I’m "this close" to having a Pepsi.  Someone, talk me down please!!!

x-no-archive: yes http://www.IntoThe.Net

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you, thank you, thank you, everybody, for replying.  I resisted that "devil’s brew" and did not have the Pepsi.  Since you’re just the carb police and not the FAT NAZIS I will tell you honestly what I eat on a daily basis as best I can. NOTE: I try to drink a lot of water but I know I am falling short of the mark. I typically drink in a day about 72 oz. of water and some other assorted herbal teas (caffeine free) sweetened with Stevia or SugarTwin. Maybe once or twice a week I have a small can of V-8 (the 5.5 oz. minicans).  I don’t drink diet soda because Nutrasweet makes me very sick.  I think that covers it for

the liquids. You don’t say how much weight you need to lose, but you need to drink a lot more water.  Which herbal teas? Even if the teas are caffeine free, some of them might have diuretic properties, in which case you’d have to drink even more water.  Someone else already talked about the V8. Read the lable of your SugarTwin… Usually powdered artificial sweeteners have other sugars added as "bulk agents"  Does it contain anything ending in "ose?"  Especially "dextrose" or "maltodextrose" (or "maltodextrin"). These are sugar plain and simple.  They may have fewer available calories, but they trigger an insulin spike.  Also things like sorbitol, xylotol… these are sugar alcohols which can also trigger insulin responses.  Stevia is ok. For breakfast, I have been having Atkins’ protein shake (expensive!!) but since I ran out, this morning I had a 3-egg omelet with about an ounce of cheese, a slice of Canadian bacon and 3 strips of regular bacon.

Inititially, while you’re trying to figure out what’s keeping you from losing, eat unprocessed meats (steak makes a good breakfast) instead of sausage, bacon, etc.  Add things back in one at a time to see which one stops you from losing.  Nitrates are big problem for a lot of people. Many cured meats have some added sugar too… not much usually, but if you are especially sensitive to sugar, it might cause an insulin response sufficient to mess you up. For lunch I had a meatball, a small piece of sausage, and about 2 oz. of chicken in spaghetti sauce that I made myself (including the meat, no breadcrumbs in the meatballs) over about a cup of spaghetti squash. Sometimes at work we go out to eat at the Chinese restaurant and I eat only meat and veggie dishes, no rice or starch.

Almost all sauces in even the meat and veggie dishes at Chinese restaurants contain massive amounts of corn starch as thickeners, and often sugar as well.  Egg drop soup in most restaurants also has a lot of starch added.  Best bet for Chinese… go to a mongolian barbeque, fill the bowl with mostly meat, and maybe a little brocolli and/or zuccini, but skip the sauce.  You can salt and pepper it at your table. For dinner this evening, I made the Revamped Cottage Pie (double recipe) from the asdl-c cookbook.  I ate a lot of it, I guess maybe about 3/4 lb ground beef and a proportionate amount of the rest of it.

Don’t have the cookbook, so can’t comment. For a snack which I may have in the late afternoon, I eat pork rinds, sometimes with cream cheese as a dip.  I have made the Atkins ice cream, but find it too rich and only eat a small portion if at all.  I’m eager to try the ice cream recipes from the cookbook, but I want to buy an ice cream maker first.

Not all recipes in the cookbook will be good for all Atkids… some might be better for folks in the maintenance phase… while you’re getting things sorted out, try making your snacks smaller portions of the same things you eat for meals… a piece of chicken or steak, a boiled egg with mayonaise.  Make cheeses one of the things you leave out initially and add back one at a time over several weeks. The only major booboos I can think of are drinking a lite beer at dinner once; another time a margarita (on the rocks, not frozen) at Red Lobster; and a flavored coffee which might have had real sugar (despite my hitting the SweetNLo button).  I also have had popcorn about 4 times in the past 2 weeks, but not too large a portion each time. Are my major booboos enough to wreck the whole entire diet?  I didn’t do any of these booboos during Induction.

For some people they might not be.  For others they might be.  Everyone is different.  You may find that if you eat sufficient calories, these temptations might not be as tempting.  How about a nice green salad instead of popcorn? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Medicines: I take Depakote and Wellbutrin for depression, a very low dose of Synthroid for hypothyroidism.  On occasion I take Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.  Also take Allegra-D, MaxAir inhaler, and Flovent inhaler for asthma/allergies.  I have a nebulizer but I use it very rarely with Proventil. Depakote in particular is flagged in my drug book as maybe causing a false ketone positive.  Besides depression it’s used as an antiseizure medication for epilepsy.  Klonopin is also in the antiseizure family.  My doctor just wrote me a scrip for Xenical but I would like some feedback from the group before starting it.

Can’t comment on your medications… except Xenical. Does your doctor know you are doing Atkins?  Does he understand Atkins? Xenical blocks fat absorption.  Xenecal is basically a low-fat diet without the discipline. You should choose one or the other, low-carb or low-fat, because if you try to do both, your caloric intake will rely too heavily on protein and probably be low-enough to trigger a starvation response, making it even harder for you to lose weight/maintain weight loss. Have you (honestly) ever in your life stuck to a low-fat diet? Did it work for you? Can you do it for the rest of your life?  If so, why are you trying the low-carb route?  See my point? My unprofessional opinion is that you should spend a few weeks sorting out your low-carb lifestyle, as in doing a meat fast and adding things in gradually, and when you find what is stalling you, decide for yourself if it is something you can do without forever.  THEN, if you either can’t find what is stalling you, or you can’t live without what stalls you, go back to a typical low-fat diet with Xenical and be prepared to do it for the rest of your life if it works for you. Just one other suggestion: are you taking any suppliments?  Since you’re putting large volumes of water through your body, in addition to a good multivitamin, you really should be taking extra potassium, magnesium and calcium. Anyway… give low-carb an honest and mindful 3-4 months, before you give up on it.  And, (stepping on my favorite soap box)get your body fat tested now, early on.  That’s a much better measure of success than the scales, which can tell evil lies if you happen to gain a little muscle along the way. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this was really long and I appreciate anyone who took the time to read this.  Thank you for your help and support. A NOTE FROM THE HUSBAND.  I am Ross Presser, who’s been posting a few times during the past week. Tracey posted earlier today completely without my knowledge or consent, so all the kudos for delurking belongs to her not me. I love this lady! — Ross — Tracey Presser

You Go Ross… wish my hubby was doing low-carb… it would make things a lot easier.  Especially since he’s a better cook than I am! — Marion, Atkid since 1/18/99, soccer+pumpin’ iron 205/186/? BF%: 41/30/20 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I agree with Spida.  That V-8 has 8 grams per 6 oz. and other than liking it there’s no other reason to drink it.  Don’t go hungry, eat, but eat real food, not protein shakes, meal replacement bars or other junk.  I don’t see how you could be in ketosis eating all of the stuff you reported, so it’s not surprising that you’re not making much progress, so maybe you are getting a false positive.  It also sounds like you’re not eating enough of the right stuff (like meat) and way too much of the wrong stuff (like veggies). IMHO, before you start worrying about cutting out citric acid, bacon, caffeine or anything else, first make sure you’re following the program.  So far, you’re not following the program, so cutting these things out might turn out to be unnecessary and you’ll never know until you start following the program.  If you’re still not making any progress you can worry about these things later.  Follow the program to the letter for 2-3 weeks meaning no margaritas, no Chinese food, no spaghetti sauce, no V-8, no popcorn. There’s lots of stuff you can eat besides these things.  The good thing about this diet is it’s relatively easy to stick to.  The bad thing is that when you cheat it can wipe out all of the work you’ve done for a week.  So don’t cheat and then whine about not losing weight. If you want to succeed, you have to start taking this seriously, meaning counting every blessed carb gram that goes in your mouth.  And if you don’t know the count you have to look it up or don’t eat it.  Have you read Atkins or Protein Power?  If not read one or both of these and the FAQ. — Chuck Dudek Palm Harbor, Florida Low Carb FAQ: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc "People say I don’t take criticism well, but I say, what the hell do they know?" — Groucho Marx

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I typically drink in a day about 72 oz. of water and some other assorted herbal teas (caffeine free) sweetened with Stevia or SugarTwin. Maybe once or twice a week I have a small can of V-8 (the 5.5 oz. minicans).  I don’t drink diet soda because Nutrasweet makes me very sick.  I think that covers it for the

liquids. Well okay here’s my .02 Tracey, For starters, kiss that V-8 goodbye. I don’t know what the carb count is on that can, but anything made with tomatoes is a nono, particularly if you are having problems losing weight. Tomatoes and tomato juice type products are carby (and loaded with sodium to boot). For breakfast, I have been having Atkins’ protein shake (expensive!!) but since I ran out, this morning I had a 3-egg omelet with about an ounce of cheese, a slice of Canadian bacon and 3 strips of regular bacon.

I don’t really see much problem here. I am unfamiliar with the protein shakes. You may want to try cutting out the bacon and see if that helps. Personally, I have 2-3 eggs in butter every morning to start off my day and find it effective for starting my daily fat burning.  I think of butter as medication that’s easy to take For lunch I had a meatball, a small piece of sausage, and about 2 oz. of chicken in spaghetti sauce that I made myself (including the meat, no breadcrumbs in the meatballs) over about a cup of spaghetti squash. Sometimes at work we go out to eat at the Chinese restaurant and I eat only meat and veggie dishes, no rice or starch.

Hmmm… I think you could have some problems here.. read the package on that sausage and be sure it contains no sugar.   Spaghetti sauce?  That’s a tomato product.. already told you my feelings on that.. skip the spaghetti sauce and raise your chicken portion from 2 measly ounces to half a damn bird if you’re hungry!!  I don’t know what spaghetti squash is but you should probably check the carb content of that and some of the other veggies you eat. Some veggies are much lower in carbs than others. Try to stick to the lowest carb ones. (lettuce, cucumber, radish, cauliflower.)  As for the chinese food, well, herein could lie a large part of your problem.  You may be eating only meat and veggie dishes, but if these are not plain boring steamed dishes,  then they are the yummy dishes in some kind of sauce. Sadly, most chinese sauces (and soups!) contain cornstarch and/or sugar. (oyster sauce, duck sauce, plum sauce, black bean sauce.. oh hell all of them.. *sigh*)  My mother called me today whining that she ate 3 spareribs at a chinese food place last nite and she was up 3 lbs today..  rib sauce is loaded with carbs.. loaded.. my favorite rib sauce has 24 grams per tablespoon!! I have given up chinese food (my favorite).. and you should probably do the same. The only major booboos I can think of are drinking a lite beer at dinner once; another time a margarita (on the rocks, not frozen) at Red Lobster; and a flavored coffee which might have had real sugar (despite my hitting the SweetNLo button).  I also have had popcorn about 4 times in the past 2 weeks, but not too large a portion each time.

well yeah.. booze is a big ol’ nono.. at least for me.  Of course that margarita, as you already know, was a sugar bomb.. lemon mix is loaded with it.  You know, this is the first time I realized that I can’t have margaritas anymore.. damn.  Well, everytime I drink, I gain weight anyway.. so either I’m in the mood to deal with the weight gain (water retention) or I simply don’t drink.  Basically I think that unless it’s a special occasion or big whopping party.. I’m not going to drink anymore.  Caffeine bad, flavored or unflavored.  Popcorn also not a good idea since you are not losing.. wait on these things until you start dropping weight regularly. Are my major booboos enough to wreck the whole entire diet?  I didn’t do any of these booboos during Induction.

If you ate chinese food (major booboo anytime) on induction, and drank V-8 and made spaghetti sauce.. then yes you did make booboos on induction.. I would start induction over again and skip all that carby, salty stuff this time.  Remember that atkins does point out: The lower the carb intake, the faster the weight loss. I am on week six or something like that now and I’m still on induction levels of carbs. Since I know there are probably some hidden carbs that i’m missing, I think induction is a good place to be… I generally shoot for about 10-12 grams of carbs.. which means I probably eat around 20.  I have lost 22 lbs and have 50 more to go.. If you weren’t losing much on 20 grams of carbs.. then you really shouldn’t raise that number.. in fact, you may want to eat even fewer.. or go on the meat fast as some have already recommended. I’m not going to comment on the medication part. I’ll let the experts handle that.. I don’t know much about them except that wellbutrin can definitely affect weight loss.   You said you have 200 lbs to lose. Unless you are severely metabolically resistant  (and you may well be but lets assume for now that you aren’t),  you should have lost quite a bit more weight over the course of your first month.  Please try again without the carby tomatoey stuff and chinese food and popcorn and booze..  and let us know how it goes. Also, if you aren’t getting any exercise, please give walking a try too.. it can really help a lot .. and it gets easier and easier.. Even if you don’t do too much, some is better than none anytime. Hope some of this is helpful.  Don’t give up.. just try again and really count your carbs this time.  A good rule of thumb is, if you don’t know the carb count of something.. don’t eat it. Gratz on your delurked status and welcome to the group!! Spida

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Thank you, thank you, thank you, everybody, for replying.  I resisted that "devil’s brew" and did not have the Pepsi.  Since you’re just the carb police and not the FAT NAZIS I will tell you honestly what I eat on a daily basis as best I can. NOTE: I try to drink a lot of water but I know I am falling short of the mark. I typically drink in a day about 72 oz. of water and some other assorted herbal teas (caffeine free) sweetened with Stevia or SugarTwin. Maybe once or twice a week I have a small can of V-8 (the 5.5 oz. minicans).  I don’t drink diet soda because Nutrasweet makes me very sick.  I think that covers it for the liquids. For breakfast, I have been having Atkins’ protein shake (expensive!!) but since I ran out, this morning I had a 3-egg omelet with about an ounce of cheese, a slice of Canadian bacon and 3 strips of regular bacon. For lunch I had a meatball, a small piece of sausage, and about 2 oz. of chicken in spaghetti sauce that I made myself (including the meat, no breadcrumbs in the meatballs) over about a cup of spaghetti squash.  Sometimes at work we go out to eat at the Chinese restaurant and I eat only meat and veggie dishes, no rice or starch. For dinner this evening, I made the Revamped Cottage Pie (double recipe) from the asdl-c cookbook.  I ate a lot of it, I guess maybe about 3/4 lb ground beef and a proportionate amount of the rest of it. For a snack which I may have in the late afternoon, I eat pork rinds, sometimes with cream cheese as a dip.  I have made the Atkins ice cream, but find it too rich and only eat a small portion if at all.  I’m eager to try the ice cream recipes from the cookbook, but I want to buy an ice cream maker first. The only major booboos I can think of are drinking a lite beer at dinner once; another time a margarita (on the rocks, not frozen) at Red Lobster; and a flavored coffee which might have had real sugar (despite my hitting the SweetNLo button).  I also have had popcorn about 4 times in the past 2 weeks, but not too large a portion each time. Are my major booboos enough to wreck the whole entire diet?  I didn’t do any of these booboos during Induction. Medicines: I take Depakote and Wellbutrin for depression, a very low dose of Synthroid for hypothyroidism.  On occasion I take Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.  Also take Allegra-D, MaxAir inhaler, and Flovent inhaler for asthma/allergies.  I have a nebulizer but I use it very rarely with Proventil. Depakote in particular is flagged in my drug book as maybe causing a false ketone positive.  Besides depression it’s used as an antiseizure medication for epilepsy.  Klonopin is also in the antiseizure family.  My doctor just wrote me a scrip for Xenical but I would like some feedback from the group before starting it. I know this was really long and I appreciate anyone who took the time to read this.  Thank you for your help and support. A NOTE FROM THE HUSBAND.  I am Ross Presser, who’s been posting a few times during the past week. Tracey posted earlier today completely without my knowledge or consent, so all the kudos for delurking belongs to her not me. I love this lady! — Ross

– Tracey Presser

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Question:

Unfortunately, Pauly, I am not a medical doctor…I am just a researcher in the lab.  I would not be able to advise you on medication dosages…your doctor would be best for that.  I can say that taking anti-pathogenic medications needlessly increases the chance that a pathogenic organism (bacteria, virus, etc.) with a resistance mutation will proliferate throughout the population, all other things being equal.  Thus the push for only taking anti-biotics when absolutely necessary.  But I don’t know if this concept would apply in your case. Sorry.

Hi Carter, (you had a signature change?) I am not on any meds.  (good immune system and stubborn)  I am curious for all those who are, though.   Pauly

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Dear Carter, et al: Thank you, Carter, for answering the question that was originally directed to me regarding references citing acyclovir resistant strains of hsv. I would love to be able to talk to you about the research that I have done and continue to do on a novel topical treatment for hsv. You are right about medline – it is an incredible source of info (if you can plow through the jargon). It has inspired me to start reading microbiology texts. Here is my story in  a nutshell: A client of mine was involved in the harvesting of Pacific Yew tree bark for Bristol, Myer, Squibb in order to produce Taxol, an anti-cancer chemotherapy. When they figured out how to do a semi-synthesis from other source material, he was out of a job. He continued to mess with making crude extracts from the needles, and from that made a topical salve that he thought would be useful for melanomas, burns, etc. I became interested in the possibility of selling it over the internet and bought a case from him. Well…my daughter has recurrent outbreaks of hsv-1 (cold sores) and when she had her next OB, I suggested that she try this stuff. The severe blister disappeared in 24 hours, and she was thrilled. That was the beginning of what has become quite an odyssey. Since then, I have been able to convince Dr Kenneth Thompson at the University of Chicago to generously run ELISA assays on a variety of hsv 1 & 2 strains (including acyclovir resistant strains) using a sample of the crude extract. The results showed that this drug has very potent inhibitory activity against all of the strains tested. I was then able to convince a director of the antiviral screening program at NIAID to test a sample. The sample was sent to Dr Earl Kern at the U of Alabama and they ran assays to show cytopathic effect and plaque reduction. The results of these experiments confirmed the potent inhibitory effect of this crude drug. Since then I have sent samples to hsv sufferers that were willing to return a survey so that I could conduct an informal human subjects trial. The results from that have been very positive. At this point, I have filed for a patent, incorporated, and am in the process of closing a deal for the first round of seed capital in order to be able to continue to research, and eventually market this amazing substance. I have discovered (via medline) that some research had been done in the 80’s regarding the mechanism that might explain why this is working on hsv. Dr Thompson agreed that this might be the case. It goes something like this: Microtubules are type of cellular matter that are able to move in and out of the cell and cell nucleus. Apparently, hsv is able to reconstruct the microtubules in such a way that allows them to attach their DNA and hitch a ride to the nucleus, where they then use the reproductive mechanisms of the cell to produce more virus. Taxanes (compounds such as Taxol) are known to stabilize and prevent disassembly of microtubules. Thus, the little buggers are denied a free ride into and out of the cell. If they can’t get in or out of the nucleus, they can’t reproduce. At that point, the bodies own natural defenses are more able to handle the infection (because of the reproductive inhibition) and the hsv travel back up the nerve pathways where they (unfortunately) reside until the next triggering event. So that’s were this latest innovation in herpes treatment stands. I am not interested in making unsubstantiated claims and selling this stuff before we are ready. We are going to do the science; in vitro and in vivo. We will be doing human subject protocols, and hope to be able to obtain support from NIH. This is all going to take some time, and money, but I hope to be able to market it over the counter in a year or so, rather than as a prescriptive drug after 10 years of FDA trials. We shall see. Bob Gallaher

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Unfortunately, Pauly, I am not a medical doctor…I am just a researcher in the lab.  I would not be able to advise you on medication dosages…your doctor would be best for that.  I can say that taking anti-pathogenic medications needlessly increases the chance that a pathogenic organism (bacteria, virus, etc.) with a resistance mutation will proliferate throughout the population, all other things being equal.  Thus the push for only taking anti-biotics when absolutely necessary.  But I don’t know if this concept would apply in your case. Sorry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Carter and Welcome, Is it possible that people should be doing one of 2 things: Trying to decrease the amount of meds they take each day to see what their effectiveness with less could be?   (Not initially of course.  I strongly believe that you should take them in the recommended doses daily if you are sufferring from back to cack recurrances.) Using meds only when they are in stressfull situations, ill or at the onset of a prodrome? Pauly

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Carter,    Thanks for the info.  My recent doctor explained this in lesser terms.  But indeed did inform me that the virus changes and may need higher doses of meds in order to obtain the same results when I first started using Acyclovir.  And from my understanding, the other meds are taken less but at higher doses.  "E" — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.

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I’m sure there are some other researchers or doctors in this group too, no?

Guilty…… Please contact me late next week as I will be meeting with an expert in HSV each day of this week.  He will be lecturing on the pathogenesis of HSV.  I’d be happy to fill everyone in on the current models.

Who, out of interest….. …and like you said, don’t be worried about the resistant thing.  A 0.5% chance of resistance isn’t bad…and even if you are one of the 0.5%, another drug with different properties will probably do the trick.

This would suggest why so few case reports had been generated (until you posted that survey it was ploughing through poorly cited case reports to find immunocompetent resistance cases, nightmare city. Tim When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568

Response:

Hello Carter and Welcome, Is it possible that people should be doing one of 2 things: Trying to decrease the amount of meds they take each day to see what their effectiveness with less could be?   (Not initially of course.  I strongly believe that you should take them in the recommended doses daily if you are sufferring from back to cack recurrances.) Using meds only when they are in stressfull situations, ill or at the onset of a prodrome? Pauly

Response:

The problem with literature on resistance to ACV and other drugs is that the immunosuppressed are where the risk really is and where most of the study is done so it skews data..however…. Antimicrob Agents Chemother 1998 Apr;42(4):868-72 Survey of resistance of herpes simplex virus to acyclovir in northwest England. Christophers J, Clayton J, Craske J, Ward R, Collins P, Trowbridge M, Darby G [snip] a 2-year period and tested for sensitivity to ACV. These studies suggested a prevalence of resistance of approximately 0.1 to 0.6% in immunocompetent individuals, with no apparent difference in prevalence between treated and untreated groups. In line with previous studies, the prevalence of resistance in treated immunocompromised individuals was approximately 6%.

…..this paper which is recent actually has addressed the issue….the one question I’d have is the metnod used to titrate resistance….if its a particular route then I’d be worried about de novo resistance in the test itself (growing virus in the presence of antiviral is precisely how a Thymidine kinase Equine Herpesvirus mutant was produced in the lab I used to work at, and as far as I know they were just copying experimental techniques used with HSV) Tim When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart ICQ: 5178568

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree, April–thanks a bunch Carter! Note the last study done in NW England that indicates no difference between treated and un-treated people though, April.  From that, it would appear these people had their resistant strain "in house" and that it wasn’t "developed" as you are worried about.  And with a .01 to .06% shot, I think that qualifies as pretty rare.  Wonder what the people that DO have a resistant strain do for relief though.  Wow.  This virus gets curiouser and curiouser.. Funny.  I was reading all that study stuff and thinking… Jeez… I go to the store, and try to find the laundry soap that’s best to use and still on sale–these scientific dudes and dudettes are worried about "substrate binding of TK at the molecular level" and stuff.  I’m glad we have them working on this stuff–but I don’t understand much of what they do.  Like I say though…glad they’re out there with those concerns–it’s probably helping me deal with this virus like I couldn’t have without their efforts. I’m also glad for folks like Carter here that can find stuff like this.  I may not understand it, but I read it and know that people are working on cures and meds and stuff. Hang in there -G

You are welcome.  I’m a molecular biologist myself (one of those "substrate binding of TK at the molecular level" guys, as you refer to them ), and this stuff, aside from hitting home because of a sexual encounter I had last Fall, is also very interesting to me – kind of like a puzzle to figure out. Anyway, if you or anyone else in the group is interested in doing some literature research yourself, I can direct you to the site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ Click on "PubMed" to search, by subject, title, or author, any life science literature published in the world since 198(?)5. I use this site (and others) for my research on a daily basis.  This site is run by the government (the National Center for Biotechnology Information at the National Library of Medicine at the National Institutes of Health).  The NIH is the main source of funding for biological research in the U.S.  It is the governmental body that gets monies appropriated to it by Congress each year (via the DOE – Department of Engergy).  These are YOUR tax dollars (approx. $12 billion annually) at work!  Please feel free to see what your dollars are producing by searching this site.  The site has about a one-month lag time from when the publishers send out their journals. Feel free to ask me any questions regarding the scientific jargon.  Like any other profession, we find it useful to speak in our own language I’m sure there are some other researchers or doctors in this group too, no? Please contact me late next week as I will be meeting with an expert in HSV each day of this week.  He will be lecturing on the pathogenesis of HSV.  I’d be happy to fill everyone in on the current models. …and like you said, don’t be worried about the resistant thing.  A 0.5% chance of resistance isn’t bad…and even if you are one of the 0.5%, another drug with different properties will probably do the trick. Carter Fields University of California, Los Angeles

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This is very interesting and helpful of you, Carter. OTOH, it’s really bad news. Luckily for you, I’m not in the mood to shoot the messenger! Jeez…so far, I don’t seem to have developed a resistance to antivirals. With any luck, I won’t. But I wish we all had more on our side than luck! Thanks, Carter.

I agree, April–thanks a bunch Carter! Note the last study done in NW England that indicates no difference between treated and un-treated people though, April.  From that, it would appear these people had their resistant strain "in house" and that it wasn’t "developed" as you are worried about.  And with a .01 to .06% shot, I think that qualifies as pretty rare.  Wonder what the people that DO have a resistant strain do for relief though.  Wow.  This virus gets curiouser and curiouser.. Funny.  I was reading all that study stuff and thinking… Jeez… I go to the store, and try to find the laundry soap that’s best to use and still on sale–these scientific dudes and dudettes are worried about "substrate binding of TK at the molecular level" and stuff.  I’m glad we have them working on this stuff–but I don’t understand much of what they do.  Like I say though…glad they’re out there with those concerns–it’s probably helping me deal with this virus like I couldn’t have without their efforts. I’m also glad for folks like Carter here that can find stuff like this.  I may not understand it, but I read it and know that people are working on cures and meds and stuff. Hang in there -G

Response:

This is very interesting and helpful of you, Carter. OTOH, it’s really bad news. Luckily for you, I’m not in the mood to shoot the messenger! Jeez…so far, I don’t seem to have developed a resistance to antivirals. With any luck, I won’t. But I wish we all had more on our side than luck! Thanks, Carter. HUG, April – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  Just perusing the posts in this group.  Thought I could help with the scientific data.  Here’s a recent publication regarding your issue to viral resistance.  It’s not a direct answer to your question because it’s not the first group to report HSV resistance to drugs (I’ll have to dig up the first paper). However, I thought this paper might shed some light.  The basic idea here is that acyclovir mimics one of the four bases that make up DNA…except that it is slightly altered.  When the virus copies its DNA, it needs to incorporate new bases in solution.  Instead of incorporating the normal ones, it incorporates this slightly altered one.  The slightly altered one causes the enzyme responsible for copying the DNA to prematurely stop.  So the virus can’t make any more copies of DNA.  However, every time the virus copies its DNA, there’s a chance for mutation. This mutation could cause resistance to the drug. Below:  Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1999 Jan 19;96(2):447-52 The enzymological basis for resistance of herpesvirus DNA polymerase mutants to acyclovir: relationship to the structure of alpha-like DNA polymerases. Huang L, Ishii KK, Zuccola H, Gehring AM, Hwang CBC, Hogle J, Coen DM Department of Biological Chemistry and Molecular Pharmacology, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115, USA. [Medline record in process] Acyclovir (ACV), like many antiviral drugs, is a nucleoside analog. In vitro, ACV triphosphate inhibits herpesvirus DNA polymerase by means of binding, incorporation into primer/template, and dead-end complex formation in the presence of the next deoxynucleoside triphosphate. However, it is not known whether this mechanism operates in vivo. To address this and other questions, we analyzed eight mutant polymerases encoded by drug-resistant viruses, each altered in a region conserved among alpha-like DNA polymerases. We measured Km and kcat values for dGTP and ACV triphosphate incorporation and Ki values of ACV triphosphate for dGTP incorporation for each mutant. Certain mutants showed increased Km values for ACV triphosphate incorporation, suggesting a defect in inhibitor binding. Other mutants showed reduced kcat values for ACV triphosphate incorporation, suggesting a defect in incorporation of inhibitor into DNA, while the rest of the mutants exhibited both altered km and kcat values. In most cases, the fold increase in Ki of ACV triphosphate for dGTP incorporation relative to wild-type polymerase was similar to fold resistance conferred by the mutation in vivo; however, one mutation conferred a much greater increase in resistance than in Ki. The effects of mutations on enzyme kinetics could be explained by using a model of an alpha-like DNA polymerase active site bound to primer/template and inhibitor. The results have implications for mechanisms of action and resistance of antiviral nucleoside analogs in vivo, in particular for the importance of incorporation into DNA and for the functional roles of conserved regions of polymerases. In fact, there are acyclovir resistant strains of herpes. Hi Bob Could you point out the documentation that you’re basing this statement of fact on?  I’ve heard this to be the case… and read other’s statements here to that effect.  But I can’t recall anyone pointing to a source for it.  Just that it’s "fact". Thanks -G — Carter Fields University of California, Los Angeles

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Other sources of data: Bone Marrow Transplant 1998 Sep;22(6):587-9 Acyclovir-resistant herpes simplex virus infections in a bone marrow transplant population. Darville JM, Ley BE, Roome AP, Foot AB Department of Pathology and Microbiology, University of Bristol, UK. Over a 3-month period, four patients who had received unrelated donor (UD) bone marrow transplants (BMT) presented with severe mucocutaneous herpes simplex virus (HSV) infection while receiving acyclovir (ACV) prophylaxis. Sensitivity testing of the isolates revealed three to be acyclovir-resistant and in one patient the infection was also characterised by a marked failure to respond to foscarnet (phosphonoformic acid). The emergence of ACV-resistant HSV infections in themselves is a new and challenging problem, and yet a far greater problem will become evident if these infections develop resistance to non thymidine kinase dependent therapy. Eur J Biochem 1998 Jul 15;255(2):472-81 Drug resistance of herpes simplex virus type 1–structural considerations at the molecular level of the thymidine kinase. Kussmann-Gerber S, Kuonen O, Folkers G, Pilger BD, Scapozza L Department of Pharmacy, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich. Several drug-resistant strains of herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV1) isolated in vivo or from tissue culture, have exhibited a mutated thymidine kinase (TK). Moreover, various site-directed-mutagenesis experiments conducted on HSV1 TK allowed the assignment of specific amino acid residues to specific functional properties. From this, a range of hypotheses was generated related to substrate binding of TK at the molecular level. A site-directed-mutagenesis study on Q125 was performed to clarify the contribution of this residue to the binding of thymidine or aciclovir beyond the hydrogen-bonding pattern observed in the crystal structure. While Q125L is only able to phosphorylate thymidine, Q125N accepts thymidine and aciclovir as substrates. Q125E shows no phosphorylation activity. Several mutations identified previously as relevant in drug resistance were studied in an attempt to further understand their role in these processes. Four amino acid positions are described (T63, A168, R176 and C336) that confer drug resistance when mutated; however, the molecular mechanisms are considerably different in each case. Analysis of the crystal structures and the molecular modeling presented in this paper suggest that T63 is essential for the binding of Mg2+ and thus the catalytic activity of the enzyme, while A168 limits steric accessibility and if mutated to a bulkier residue will exclude binding of larger substrate analogues. R176 appears to be essential for electrostatic balance within the active site, and C336, which is located at the surface of TK and directed toward the ATP-binding site, disrupts the three-dimensional structure of the whole active site by shifting the LID-domain. The present work contributes to a detailed understanding of nucleoside binding to TK, thereby facilitating the rational design of substrates for HSV1 TK and of drug-specific TK for gene therapy. Antimicrob Agents Chemother 1998 Apr;42(4):868-72 Survey of resistance of herpes simplex virus to acyclovir in northwest England. Christophers J, Clayton J, Craske J, Ward R, Collins P, Trowbridge M, Darby G Manchester Public Health Laboratory, Withington Hospital, United Kingdom. Acyclovir (ACV) has been used for more than 15 years in the management of herpes simplex virus (HSV) and varicella-zoster virus (VZV) disease. The present survey was undertaken to assess the level of ACV resistance in the population. More than 2,000 HSV isolates from both immunocompetent and immunocompromised patients in northwest England were collected over a 2-year period and tested for sensitivity to ACV. These studies suggested a prevalence of resistance of approximately 0.1 to 0.6% in immunocompetent individuals, with no apparent difference in prevalence between treated and untreated groups. In line with previous studies, the prevalence of resistance in treated immunocompromised individuals was approximately 6%.

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Hello.  Just perusing the posts in this group.  Thought I could help with the scientific data.  Here’s a recent publication regarding your issue to viral resistance.  It’s not a direct answer to your question because it’s not the first group to report HSV resistance to drugs (I’ll have to dig up the first paper). However, I thought this paper might shed some light.  The basic idea here is that acyclovir mimics one of the four bases that make up DNA…except that it is slightly altered.  When the virus copies its DNA, it needs to incorporate new bases in solution.  Instead of incorporating the normal ones, it incorporates this slightly altered one.  The slightly altered one causes the enzyme responsible for copying the DNA to prematurely stop.  So the virus can’t make any more copies of DNA.  However, every time the virus copies its DNA, there’s a chance for mutation. This mutation could cause resistance to the drug. Below:  Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1999 Jan 19;96(2):447-52 The enzymological basis for resistance of herpesvirus DNA polymerase mutants to acyclovir: relationship to the structure of alpha-like DNA polymerases. Huang L, Ishii KK, Zuccola H, Gehring AM, Hwang CBC, Hogle J, Coen DM Department of Biological Chemistry and Molecular Pharmacology, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115, USA. [Medline record in process] Acyclovir (ACV), like many antiviral drugs, is a nucleoside analog. In vitro, ACV triphosphate inhibits herpesvirus DNA polymerase by means of binding, incorporation into primer/template, and dead-end complex formation in the presence of the next deoxynucleoside triphosphate. However, it is not known whether this mechanism operates in vivo. To address this and other questions, we analyzed eight mutant polymerases encoded by drug-resistant viruses, each altered in a region conserved among alpha-like DNA polymerases. We measured Km and kcat values for dGTP and ACV triphosphate incorporation and Ki values of ACV triphosphate for dGTP incorporation for each mutant. Certain mutants showed increased Km values for ACV triphosphate incorporation, suggesting a defect in inhibitor binding. Other mutants showed reduced kcat values for ACV triphosphate incorporation, suggesting a defect in incorporation of inhibitor into DNA, while the rest of the mutants exhibited both altered km and kcat values. In most cases, the fold increase in Ki of ACV triphosphate for dGTP incorporation relative to wild-type polymerase was similar to fold resistance conferred by the mutation in vivo; however, one mutation conferred a much greater increase in resistance than in Ki. The effects of mutations on enzyme kinetics could be explained by using a model of an alpha-like DNA polymerase active site bound to primer/template and inhibitor. The results have implications for mechanisms of action and resistance of antiviral nucleoside analogs in vivo, in particular for the importance of incorporation into DNA and for the functional roles of conserved regions of polymerases. In fact, there are acyclovir resistant strains of herpes. Hi Bob Could you point out the documentation that you’re basing this statement of fact on?  I’ve heard this to be the case… and read other’s statements here to that effect.  But I can’t recall anyone pointing to a source for it.  Just that it’s "fact". Thanks -G

– Carter Fields University of California, Los Angeles

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In fact, there are acyclovir resistant strains of herpes. Bob Gallaher

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In fact, there are acyclovir resistant strains of herpes.

Hi Bob Could you point out the documentation that you’re basing this statement of fact on?  I’ve heard this to be the case… and read other’s statements here to that effect.  But I can’t recall anyone pointing to a source for it.  Just that it’s "fact". Thanks -G

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Hello all, I would be most grateful for any advice. I was taking aciclovir (800mg daily) and, stupidly, fooled myself that I didn’t need it any more as there were no signs of an outbreak.  Within days of stopping the tablets I had a fairly severe outbreak and I immediately started another course of aciclovir (same amount).  I have now been taking the damned things for 46 days and yet still haven’t even had one day free of herpes.  As soon as one site starts to clear, another one (at least!)pops up.  I don’t think I have ever taken the tablets for so long without it clearing up.  My questions are:- 1/ Is it possible to build up a resistance to aciclovir? 2/ If I were to ask my doctor for different medication, would I be best advised to go for famvir or valtrex next?  I have tried to avoid these tablets having read about side effects of headache and nausea but I really can’t go on like this much longer.  I’m tired, fed up and damned itchy!  A poor attempt at humour perhaps, but it’s the best I can manage right now. Thanks, Fern.

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1/ Is it possible to build up a resistance to aciclovir? 2/ If I were to ask my doctor for different medication, would I be best advised to go for famvir or valtrex next?  I have tried to avoid these tablets having read about side effects of headache and nausea but I really can’t go on like this much longer.  I’m tired, fed up and damned itchy!  A poor attempt at humour perhaps, but it’s the best I can manage right now.

Hey Fern Well, first off… the outbreak level of Acyclovir is much more than 800mg daily.  I think it’s about 400mg x4 to 5 per day.  And spaced well apart equally during the day, too.  Not all at once.  My doc even prescribes 800mg x4 for outbreaks, so your 800mg once per day wouldn’t do much in comparison. Also, something else going on?  Sure it’s all herpes?  Have you had your doc look at things to make sure you’re outbreaks are really just outbreaks and not combining with something else.? I’ve not heard of anyone developing a resistance to acyclovir, although I’d think some meds can work better than others for some folks.  You might talk to your doc about trying one of the other antivirals. Actually, I think all of the antivirals have the same type of side effects. But if you want to get away from acyclovir (which is the main ingredient in Zovirax and what Valtrex turns into when it encounters herpesvirus), then Famvir would be your only option. Good luck -G

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I find that a 1000mg a day works the best, you need to split it up 500 in the morning and 500 at night. The zovirax will not stay in your system long if you just take it once a day and avoid alcohol at all cost I have found that it can make outbreaks more severe.  Hope this helps you.                                    Regards   Cassie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I would be most grateful for any advice. I was taking aciclovir (800mg daily) and, stupidly, fooled myself that I didn’t need it any more as there were no signs of an outbreak.  Within days of stopping the tablets I had a fairly severe outbreak and I immediately started another course of aciclovir (same amount).  I have now been taking the damned things for 46 days and yet still haven’t even had one day free of herpes.  As soon as one site starts to clear, another one (at least!)pops up.  I don’t think I have ever taken the tablets for so long without it clearing up.  My questions are:- 1/ Is it possible to build up a resistance to aciclovir? 2/ If I were to ask my doctor for different medication, would I be best advised to go for famvir or valtrex next?  I have tried to avoid these tablets having read about side effects of headache and nausea but I really can’t go on like this much longer.  I’m tired, fed up and damned itchy!  A poor attempt at humour perhaps, but it’s the best I can manage right now. Thanks, Fern.

Response:

Thanks both for the replies. I guess you’re right about the alcohol, but … I’ve just spoken to my doc who told me to take 400mg x 5 daily for 5 days to ’see how it goes’ (I wish! ) Interestingly though, he also told me to try to reduce on my steroid inhaler (for asthma) as this further inhibits the immune system – never knew that before! Anyway – thanks again and here’s hoping! Fern.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I find that a 1000mg a day works the best, you need to split it up 500 in the morning and 500 at night. The zovirax will not stay in your system long if you just take it once a day and avoid alcohol at all cost I have found that it can make outbreaks more severe. Hope this helps you.                                   Regards   Cassie Hello all, I would be most grateful for any advice. I was taking aciclovir (800mg daily) and, stupidly, fooled myself that I didn’t need it any more as there were no signs of an outbreak.  Within days of stopping the tablets I had a fairly severe outbreak and I immediately started another course of aciclovir (same amount).  I have now been taking the damned things for 46 days and yet still haven’t even had one day free of herpes.  As soon as one site starts to clear, another one (at least!)pops up.  I don’t think I have ever taken the tablets for so long without it clearing up.  My questions are:- 1/ Is it possible to build up a resistance to aciclovir? 2/ If I were to ask my doctor for different medication, would I be best advised to go for famvir or valtrex next?  I have tried to avoid these tablets having read about side effects of headache and nausea but I really can’t go on like this much longer.  I’m tired, fed up and damned itchy! A poor attempt at humour perhaps, but it’s the best I can manage right now. Thanks, Fern.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         I sincerly appreciate your comments, and thoughts on the subject of meds.  I think a lot of people simply do not understand that life is impossible for some of us without them.        My thought is that, there are many different disorders, and many different levels of severity, and also lots of different causes of these disorders.        I feel for anyone going through any of the different anxiety disorders.  Everyone has got to remember that, we are all so different.        To think that someone is weak, because of a need for meds, is so ridiculous.  Is a diabetic weak?  Is someone who uses an inhaler for asthma weak?       With all of the stigma already attached to Panic, Anxiety, etc. ,we sure don’t need anyone saying we are weak!!  With all the S**T I’ve been through the fact that I’m still alive is proof that I’m strong.      Just wanted to say thanks again, for the support.  With all of the trolls etc. lately, I haven’t posted much. It’s just nice to find some support for your views, and to know that someone has "been there too".

<NOT snipped because it bears repeating Well said Vicki. Thanks for helping me put into words what I have been trying to say here since day one. {{{{Vicki}}}} Best Wishes, Jen

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Jen,         I sincerly appreciate your comments, and thoughts on the subject of meds.  I think a lot of people simply do not understand that life is impossible for some of us without them.        My thought is that, there are many different disorders, and many different levels of severity, and also lots of different causes of these disorders.          I feel for anyone going through any of the different anxiety disorders.  Everyone has got to remember that, we are all so different.        To think that someone is weak, because of a need for meds, is so ridiculous.  Is a diabetic weak?  Is someone who uses an inhaler for asthma weak?       With all of the stigma already attached to Panic, Anxiety, etc. ,we sure don’t need anyone saying we are weak!!  With all the S**T I’ve been through the fact that I’m still alive is proof that I’m strong.      Just wanted to say thanks again, for the support.  With all of the trolls etc. lately, I haven’t posted much. It’s just nice to find some support for your views, and to know that someone has "been there too".        {{{Jen}}}                                   Vicki "Sure as night will follow day, Most things I worry about, Never happen anyway"

Question:

I use to use the beconase and found that my nose was always irritated.  My sinuses still bothered me quite a bit.  I started using flonase this spring and my nose has not be stuffed up at all to this date.  I also experience several sinus infections every year and so far I have not had any since starting flonase.  I only use it once in the morning.  I don’t have a problem with the dispenser.

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Absolutely. I Switched a few months ago. I do think Flonase is better but the dispenser is junk. I was going to dump the Flonase into my Beconase bottle, then I realized that would mess up the metering system so I didn’t. At the price of one bottle, you’d think they can come up with a better device. Chris

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I have a Beconase inhaler, and I’m not really sure it’s dispensing a consistent amount each time.  But this is the first time I have ever used any sort of inhaler.  (BTW, this is a nasal inhaler for sinusitis, not a ‘mouth’ inhaler for asthma.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to be on beconase, which had a much better dispenser system which could be disassembled and cleaned.  I find that with the new flonase dispenser, alot of times I really don’t think it’s dispensing the correct dosage (ie, the 120 doses at 4 sprays/day last 2 months?  This does not add up! And I’m congested, so I really don’t think it’s giving me the right dose).  I notice a similar observation on my son’s flonase. Anyone else have this problem?   Not exactly – mine seems to be the opposite. A bottle never lasts as long as   the label says it should, even though I follow times/day religiously. Ginger, who agrees the Beconase system is better

– In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.      Camus, _Actuelles_ (Jan. 6, 1960)

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I used to be on beconase, which had a much better dispenser system which could be disassembled and cleaned.  I find that with the new flonase dispenser, alot of times I really don’t think it’s dispensing the correct dosage (ie, the 120 doses at 4 sprays/day last 2 months?  This does not add up! And I’m congested, so I really don’t think it’s giving me the right dose).  I notice a similar observation on my son’s flonase. Anyone else have this problem?  

Not exactly – mine seems to be the opposite. A bottle never lasts as long as the label says it should, even though I follow times/day religiously. Ginger, who agrees the Beconase system is better

Response:

I used to be on beconase, which had a much better dispenser system which could be disassembled and cleaned.  I find that with the new flonase dispenser, alot of times I really don’t think it’s dispensing the correct dosage (ie, the 120 doses at 4 sprays/day last 2 months?  This does not add up! And I’m congested, so I really don’t think it’s giving me the right dose).  I notice a similar observation on my son’s flonase. Anyone else have this problem?  

Yes. I tried flonase, and never felt satisfied. I could never feel the medicine even though my pharmacist warned me that I wouldn’t feel it. But, I just didn’t get the same benefits. It seemed like I was still congested. So I switched back to becanase (now actually, my doctor has switched to vasanase which is the same stuff, different company). I liked the idea of flonase because it was less irritating to my nose. — http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~b-duncan

Response:

I used to be on beconase, which had a much better dispenser system which could be disassembled and cleaned.  I find that with the new flonase dispenser, alot of times I really don’t think it’s dispensing the correct dosage (ie, the 120 doses at 4 sprays/day last 2 months?  This does not add up! And I’m congested, so I really don’t think it’s giving me the right dose).  I notice a similar observation on my son’s flonase. Anyone else have this problem?  

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