Question:
First of all, you went to a bad clinic. NO PATIENT SHOULD EVER BE ARGUED WITH when they say how much pain they are in. Only YOU know. Unfortunately it is a very small percentage of physicians who actually live by this. And if taking opiates, you are expected to be a perfect little angel and never argue or call a lot or anything, just be a good little patient and suffer if your dose is too low at least you have something. It is suck city!!! I am so sorry and the crappy part is this is how 95% of the medical community thinks. I am so sad and horrified at these posts where people in legit pain are treated like scum. It is not fair or right. But as I said.. there are very few places that fully understand pain and its treatment. The Mayo Clinc, so esteemed for the care it provides, has an "opiophobic" [ afraid of prescribing opiates] pain clinic. That is bull and you need to find a modern clinic who believes you and is sympathetic to your needs. You should NOT have to go to some Nazi clinic and be spit on like you have been. I am so outraged this happens. The World Health Organization has outlined an analgesia pyramid and fully advocates the use of opioids in the treatment of moderate to severe pain. In fact, studies have shown that only 1% of patients who take opioid medicine for pain become addicted. 1%!!! That is so few. Yet most health care professionals treat any patient on opioids like addicts. I feel for you.. and please, as hard as it is, do NOT think you were wrong in asking for your meds. You are NOT bad and I am so sorry you were treated like dirt as you were. I wish you could come to my pain clinic and be validated AND if your pain is not controlled they will adjust your doses until it is. I hope whatever you do, you will find out about a GOOD clinic… hopefully someone here on the board can point you in the right direction.. and get relief. I am sorry I can’t help you more but I will be praying for you. For your clinic to dump you like that is so shocking, based on your story. The best way to go about picking a new doc will be to ask friends for referrals. Also here… I hope someone here can give you a name on the east coast. YES you can fill the scripts they sent. They are legit. Pain clinics always provide meds if they let patients go (that should be somewhere in your contract) … enough so they can taper if they have to and not be made to go through withdrawal. Clearly in your case there has been a misunderstanding, because not only were you taking the same dose forever and silently dealing with it not being adequate, you were then forced to accept an even lower dose when your doc was unavailable. We don’t know what the nurse on the phone and the other doc told your regular doc when he got back, but you got shafted and I am so mad they did this to you. I do know that any effort you make to talk to the clinic staff will not get you anywhere.. it is unbelievable how people can turn on you and I am so sorry this happened. In the unfortunate event that you do have to go off the meds, Nature’s Way brand Kava in the purple bottle is a BIG help… I got off my meds in a week using it, and at the time I was taking 40mg OxyContin three times a day. That was too short a time but I did it because my cardiologist thought that one of my many meds (not just pain meds) might have been contributing to my heart problems. I went off 8 meds that week, stayed off for 3 weeks, and it was hell. Anyway that and Benadryl for the runnies (eyes, nose and diarrhea) and insomnia. Almost all of us have to go off our meds at some point and I hope these things will help you until you find good care. It IS out there… but it is hard to find. And in the mean time, we are here to tell you that you are a good person and you are not alone. God bless… Check out this website, it is very empowering! Purdue Pharma, the makers of Oxy Contin, have put this site up and they have tons and tons of educational brochures and stuff to educate health care professionals too. It rules. I carry one of their pamphlets with me to work and I share it with all my chronic pain patients who have time to listen. Check it out. www.partnersagainstpain.com God bless! Liza
Response:
Stating that I was no longer a patient of their facility and that all appointments scheduled have been cancelled and that I needed to find another Dr. to handle my pain management needs.
If you choose not to stand your ground with this clinic, I can tell you that their are some Doctors out there that treat your chronic pain with dignity and seriousness, and are not part of any clinic or hmo controlled group. They may be hard to find and frustrating, but the end result is worth the hunt. Ask people you trust to give you suggestions, or have them introduce you to their Doctor, if he/she treats chronic pain suffereres. Believe in yourself and stand your ground when asked about your pain. Mutual respect is vastly important when communicating about drugs that can get the M.D. in serious trouble if misprescribed, so understand the hesitency while getting to know you. Good luck, DRD * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Just had to chime in to add my sentiments of horror and sympathy for you. I guess you must be living inside one gigantic panic attack at the moment. This type of situation never ceases to distress me. I fear I only have a kind of negative advice to offer – to show u what helped really screw things up for me. I have been given my ‘last script’ on separate occasions and know the fearful isolation that ensued. On the 1st occasion I was distraught -and angry- but still believed common sense could prevail despite my doctor’s apparent betrayal. I decided to take it ‘to the top’ and argued with the head of a gov’t department.There was no way I was swaying the mind set that ‘Dr.-right. Patient-wrong’ I ended up sobbing, asking :"what am I supposed to do? I can’t simply wean myself off in 21 days after 3 years. Am I supposed to buy drugs off the street now?" The answer to this: a) ‘they’ would not be emotionally blackmailed. (and) b) I had now admitted I was addicted and it was illegal to prescribe to an addict. So do NOT try this approach. You must not use the word ‘addicted’ or ‘dependent’ I suspect – or it may be turned on you. The only help I got, that time, was from a drug clinic – I phoned and spoke to the ‘expert’ in drug addiction and explained my situation. He ‘helped’ to the point of providing the drug for a slower weaning off period. So I found I was able to use submissive words such as ’scared’ ,’powerless’ and ‘afraid’ but definitely shied away from ‘unfair’, ‘unjust’ or ‘wrong’. I repeat: I’m sooo sorry to be only telling of negative approaches and I truly don’t wish to advocate an attitude of servility but it does put one in mind of a game-playing where cunning must fight injustice.
Response:
CD, Get the complete set of records that this practice has on you. You have a 2 1/2 year history of compliance and you are in far better shape than a person without papers.The prescription they mailed was probably to meet a state law requirement about leaving a patient high and dry. Find out if they are also required to give you a referral. If you have been in severe pain since ‘93 even the *good* doc has prescribed no more than breakfast. This may be a case of a window closing, so a door can open. Also, use the script they mailed you.Hopefully someone in your area can recommend a pain Dr. to you. With your paperwork, I would be more than comfortable introducing you to my doc except I live in Virginia. There is a web site that can tell you what the State of Florida requires of doctors in this situation. The only thing you have done *wrong* in this fiasco, is you refused to bow before His <godly Eminence Doctor Director and for that you should feel proud. You have a good history. They will charge you, but get it. Do not take next week for an answer. Peace, Richard
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to here some thoughts about the following: Since my 1993 operation, I have been prescribed Oxycotin 20mg 2x’s #60 and Norco 10/325 3x’s #90 per month. At best moderate control is obtained. My dilemma.. My doctor got sick and I had to see the director of the pain clinic on my last visit. He said that he prescribed very few people the amounts that I was receiving and refilled my Norco. I noticed it was for #60 and told him that my Dr. who was sick was giving me #90 and to please change it. A month later I called for refill to be phoned in and when I picked it up it was for #60, not #90. I called the office and told the nurse what had happened and to please ask Dr. why and to adjust if possible. Her response:…(nasty) WHY ARE YOU TAKING SOOOO MUCH? You get oxycotin also. With my jaw on the ground, my response was " It is what my Dr. has had me on for over 2 1/2 years. She said that I was making a big deal out of nothing and to call back when I needed a refill, I asked about dosing and she let me know that she didn’t have time for this and promptly excused herself. I called their other office and told the nurse what had happened and asked if my Dr. who had been sick and since returned to practice would give me a call to discuss my problem. Now for the fun part…. Three days later I received a letter in the mail from the Director ( The Dr. I saw when my regular Dr. was sick, Stating that I was no longer a patient of their facility and that all appointments scheduled have been cancelled and that I needed to find another Dr. to handle my pain management needs. Along with the letter was a script for Oxycotin 20mg #60 post dated for 10 days later when it was due to be refilled. Question: Am I going to have problems finding another Dr., Seems to me that I have been "Black Listed". Right or Wrong? And should I worry about filling that script he sent in the mail? I’m running out of Meds because of the #30 I was shorted and don’t want to be in pain nor do I want the withdrawals if I cant find another Dr. who will take me. I have always kept my appointments, taken meds as directed, payed my bills and never called for refills before they were due. Any advise or suggestions would be appreciated. I live in the Jacksonville, Fl. area. Thanks
Response:
I have had this happen to me 3 times. If you stand up to them or the staff and they are wrong in order to prevent you from holding it over their heads they drop you. It could also be as Richard said and they want to move you out of the practice to open up room for another patient they can drain of funds. The insurance groups also do not reward doctors who treat chronic patients. I hate doctors and lawyers…it is all about money to them. what ever happened to treating the patient or standing by a client? welcome to reality…they can do almost as they please….some day we will have a real patients bill of rights that really means something. Alan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to here some thoughts about the following: Since my 1993 operation, I have been prescribed Oxycotin 20mg 2x’s #60 and Norco 10/325 3x’s #90 per month. At best moderate control is obtained. My dilemma.. My doctor got sick and I had to see the director of the pain clinic on my last visit. He said that he prescribed very few people the amounts that I was receiving and refilled my Norco. I noticed it was for #60 and told him that my Dr. who was sick was giving me #90 and to please change it. A month later I called for refill to be phoned in and when I picked it up it was for #60, not #90. I called the office and told the nurse what had happened and to please ask Dr. why and to adjust if possible. Her response:…(nasty) WHY ARE YOU TAKING SOOOO MUCH? You get oxycotin also. With my jaw on the ground, my response was " It is what my Dr. has had me on for over 2 1/2 years. She said that I was making a big deal out of nothing and to call back when I needed a refill, I asked about dosing and she let me know that she didn’t have time for this and promptly excused herself. I called their other office and told the nurse what had happened and asked if my Dr. who had been sick and since returned to practice would give me a call to discuss my problem. Now for the fun part…. Three days later I received a letter in the mail from the Director ( The Dr. I saw when my regular Dr. was sick, Stating that I was no longer a patient of their facility and that all appointments scheduled have been cancelled and that I needed to find another Dr. to handle my pain management needs. Along with the letter was a script for Oxycotin 20mg #60 post dated for 10 days later when it was due to be refilled. Question: Am I going to have problems finding another Dr., Seems to me that I have been "Black Listed". Right or Wrong? And should I worry about filling that script he sent in the mail? I’m running out of Meds because of the #30 I was shorted and don’t want to be in pain nor do I want the withdrawals if I cant find another Dr. who will take me. I have always kept my appointments, taken meds as directed, payed my bills and never called for refills before they were due. Any advise or suggestions would be appreciated. I live in the Jacksonville, Fl. area. Thanks
Response:
Would like to here some thoughts about the following: Since my 1993 operation, I have been prescribed Oxycotin 20mg 2x’s #60 and Norco 10/325 3x’s #90 per month. At best moderate control is obtained. My dilemma.. My doctor got sick and I had to see the director of the pain clinic on my last visit. He said that he prescribed very few people the amounts that I was receiving and refilled my Norco. I noticed it was for #60 and told him that my Dr. who was sick was giving me #90 and to please change it. A month later I called for refill to be phoned in and when I picked it up it was for #60, not #90. I called the office and told the nurse what had happened and to please ask Dr. why and to adjust if possible. Her response:…(nasty) WHY ARE YOU TAKING SOOOO MUCH? You get oxycotin also. With my jaw on the ground, my response was " It is what my Dr. has had me on for over 2 1/2 years. She said that I was making a big deal out of nothing and to call back when I needed a refill, I asked about dosing and she let me know that she didn’t have time for this and promptly excused herself. I called their other office and told the nurse what had happened and asked if my Dr. who had been sick and since returned to practice would give me a call to discuss my problem. Now for the fun part…. Three days later I received a letter in the mail from the Director ( The Dr. I saw when my regular Dr. was sick, Stating that I was no longer a patient of their facility and that all appointments scheduled have been cancelled and that I needed to find another Dr. to handle my pain management needs. Along with the letter was a script for Oxycotin 20mg #60 post dated for 10 days later when it was due to be refilled. Question: Am I going to have problems finding another Dr., Seems to me that I have been "Black Listed". Right or Wrong? And should I worry about filling that script he sent in the mail? I’m running out of Meds because of the #30 I was shorted and don’t want to be in pain nor do I want the withdrawals if I cant find another Dr. who will take me. I have always kept my appointments, taken meds as directed, payed my bills and never called for refills before they were due. Any advise or suggestions would be appreciated. I live in the Jacksonville, Fl. area. Thanks
Response:
Is there any way to ask the sick doctor (your original doc) to talk to his secretary/nurse so that things can get straightened out? You might also want to ask him/her for a referral to a doc in a different clinic, someone who follows the same philosophy that he does. otherwise, i wish i could offer something more. switching docs for pain med.s sounds a bit tricky to me. i wish you the best of luck. oran – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to here some thoughts about the following: Since my 1993 operation, I have been prescribed Oxycotin 20mg 2x’s #60 and Norco 10/325 3x’s #90 per month. At best moderate control is obtained. My dilemma.. My doctor got sick and I had to see the director of the pain clinic on my last visit. He said that he prescribed very few people the amounts that I was receiving and refilled my Norco. I noticed it was for #60 and told him that my Dr. who was sick was giving me #90 and to please change it. A month later I called for refill to be phoned in and when I picked it up it was for #60, not #90. I called the office and told the nurse what had happened and to please ask Dr. why and to adjust if possible. Her response:…(nasty) WHY ARE YOU TAKING SOOOO MUCH? You get oxycotin also. With my jaw on the ground, my response was " It is what my Dr. has had me on for over 2 1/2 years. She said that I was making a big deal out of nothing and to call back when I needed a refill, I asked about dosing and she let me know that she didn’t have time for this and promptly excused herself. I called their other office and told the nurse what had happened and asked if my Dr. who had been sick and since returned to practice would give me a call to discuss my problem. Now for the fun part…. Three days later I received a letter in the mail from the Director ( The Dr. I saw when my regular Dr. was sick, Stating that I was no longer a patient of their facility and that all appointments scheduled have been cancelled and that I needed to find another Dr. to handle my pain management needs. Along with the letter was a script for Oxycotin 20mg #60 post dated for 10 days later when it was due to be refilled. Question: Am I going to have problems finding another Dr., Seems to me that I have been "Black Listed". Right or Wrong? And should I worry about filling that script he sent in the mail? I’m running out of Meds because of the #30 I was shorted and don’t want to be in pain nor do I want the withdrawals if I cant find another Dr. who will take me. I have always kept my appointments, taken meds as directed, payed my bills and never called for refills before they were due. Any advise or suggestions would be appreciated. I live in the Jacksonville, Fl. area. Thanks
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Response:
"To Get Help for Pain": http://www.widomaker.com/~skipb/panic.html — Ruada Appropriate, adequate, and ongoing pain relief for all who suffer–even in the Last Frontier of Alaska.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to here some thoughts about the following: Since my 1993 operation, I have been prescribed Oxycotin 20mg 2x’s #60 and Norco 10/325 3x’s #90 per month. At best moderate control is obtained. My dilemma.. My doctor got sick and I had to see the director of the pain clinic on my last visit. He said that he prescribed very few people the amounts that I was receiving and refilled my Norco. I noticed it was for #60 and told him that my Dr. who was sick was giving me #90 and to please change it. A month later I called for refill to be phoned in and when I picked it up it was for #60, not #90. I called the office and told the nurse what had happened and to please ask Dr. why and to adjust if possible. Her response:…(nasty) WHY ARE YOU TAKING SOOOO MUCH? You get oxycotin also. With my jaw on the ground, my response was " It is what my Dr. has had me on for over 2 1/2 years. She said that I was making a big deal out of nothing and to call back when I needed a refill, I asked about dosing and she let me know that she didn’t have time for this and promptly excused herself. I called their other office and told the nurse what had happened and asked if my Dr. who had been sick and since returned to practice would give me a call to discuss my problem. Now for the fun part…. Three days later I received a letter in the mail from the Director ( The Dr. I saw when my regular Dr. was sick, Stating that I was no longer a patient of their facility and that all appointments scheduled have been cancelled and that I needed to find another Dr. to handle my pain management needs. Along with the letter was a script for Oxycotin 20mg #60 post dated for 10 days later when it was due to be refilled. Question: Am I going to have problems finding another Dr., Seems to me that I have been "Black Listed". Right or Wrong? And should I worry about filling that script he sent in the mail? I’m running out of Meds because of the #30 I was shorted and don’t want to be in pain nor do I want the withdrawals if I cant find another Dr. who will take me. I have always kept my appointments, taken meds as directed, payed my bills and never called for refills before they were due. Any advise or suggestions would be appreciated. I live in the Jacksonville, Fl. area. Thanks
Response:
Gosh, you are in a bind. Wish I could help but I don’t know how. Maybe someone else in the group will have an answer. You don’t have much time to try and do the almost impossible. Find another doc fast. And hopefully a good one. My only idea, call your local hospital. A teaching hospital would be perfect but I’m not sure you’ll be able to find one. Ask to talk to someone who you can explain your problem to and ask them for the name of a doc they think might help. Then start dialing and praying. There has to be a doctor out there who will listen, you just have to find him/her. I feel sometimes I am on the edge with my pain clinic doctor too and wonder every time I see him if he is going to terminate me. We have had a couple of hot arguments because he called me a liar. The strange thing is I am probably too honest for my own good. I would leave on my own if he wasn’t the best around. Of course he also is the head doc of the clinic and has a "God Complex". Sorry God. My family doctor knows what is going on and supports me, but his hands are tied too. A good pain clinic is really hard to find. Good luck my friend. Bonnie
Response:
Dear Tami, I would have to agree with what Susan said, untill you are sure that all your queries are answered you need to keep asking your doctor, if she can’t or won’t tell you what you need to know then ask for a second opinion. No doctor will ever know your child as well as you do. Best wishes, Christanna
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I need advice about my daughter. Keziah is 4 months old. Ever since I brought her home from the hospital, she would wheeze a little here and there. We also discovered she has an intolerance for milk. Last Friday was our first night away from her. She spent four hours with her aunt, who has a cat. When I brought her home, she started wheezing. I’ve never heard her like this before. It was just this loud sucking sound. She was mad, oh god, was she mad. She would try to scream, at first nothing came out, then she’d start hollering. She’d curl her body up. When I took her to my doctor, she listened to her chest and said her lungs sound fine. She said she thinks she has a virus that can cause this type of reaction (and she said it could stretch over a period of months). My worry is that if there is a virus bad enough to cause wheezing, her lungs would sound bad. She said she doesn’t want to diagnose a baby this young with asthma. She also always has a stuffy nose. I use saline drops, but it doesn’t seem to do much good. When you have asthma, will your lungs always sound different? Does anyone have any advice? I’m worried sick about her. A very nice young lady emailed me on this today, but I deleted it accidentally.
When the doctor comes, the symptoms go away. Well, sometimes, at least. If the child is reacting to an allergen, her symptoms may clear by the time she reaches the doctor. Then it becomes a matter of whether your doctor trusts/respects your assessment of the situation, or is merely placating you based on the unlikeliness of the situation? Oh, how many times we parents of severely allergic children have heard that it’s impossible for a newborn to react to an allergen since they haven’t been alive long enough to become sensitized. If you see a pattern, discuss it with you child’s doctor. If it seems serious, take her in right then when she’s symptomatic. If the symptoms clear when she’s away from the trigger and you can’t reliably keep her away from the trigger, get her evaluated by an allergist. Unfortunately she’s too young for skin tests to reliably demonstrate allergies. Your best bet is to find a pediatrician and/or an allergist that listens and will work with you, not one who will require first-hand observation before he/she believes what you have observed. There have been many times when we’ve noticed changes in our children that we’ve associated with an asthma flare. When we take them in for a listen, some docs will listen, hear nothing, and give us a "look" or a lecture on bringing them in unnecessarily. Fortunately, there are many good docs that will say "I don’t hear anything right now, but let’s keep a close eye on her," acknowledging that we as parents know the signs when our children are about to "turn", respecting that we came in early to make sure they haven’t turned yet, and knowing that it could go either way. One of the frustrating parts for us parents of young asthmatics is that, at least initially, it can be difficult to tell a wheeze from upper airway congestion. Over time, though, the difference becomes a little more apparent. But if the child is truly asthmatic, it doesn’t matter – if there’s any doubt, the child should be checked out; an upper airway problem could precede an asthma flare. Get ahold of the FAQ. Get some of the recommended books. Join Mothers of Asthmatics, a valuable source of information and support. Don’t be afraid to be persistent with the pediatrician; your persistence will pay off if your child is indeed allergic and/or asthmatic. Good Luck Mark — Mark Feblowitz, GTE Laboratories Inc., 40 Sylvan Rd. Waltham, MA 02254
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Garza ) writes: Hi, I need advice about my daughter. Keziah is 4 months old. Ever since I brought her home from the hospital, she would wheeze a little here and there. We also discovered she has an intolerance for milk. Last Friday was our first night away from her. She spent four hours with her aunt, who has a cat. When I brought her home, she started wheezing. I’ve never heard her like this before. It was just this loud sucking sound. She was mad, oh god, was she mad. She would try to scream, at first nothing came out, then she’d start hollering. She’d curl her body up. When I took her to my doctor, she listened to her chest and said her lungs sound fine. She said she thinks she has a virus that can cause this type of reaction (and she said it could stretch over a period of months). My worry is that if there is a virus bad enough to cause wheezing, her lungs would sound bad. She said she doesn’t want to diagnose a baby this young with asthma. She also always has a stuffy nose. I use saline drops, but it doesn’t seem to do much good. When you have asthma, will your lungs always sound different? Does anyone have any advice? I’m worried sick about her. A very nice young lady emailed me on this today, but I deleted it accidentally. Thanks, Tami
Hi Tami, I can imagine how scared you must feel. I suffer from mild asthma, and I’ve learned I have to be my own advocate. If you’re not satisfied with the answers from your Dr., call her back and ask questions until you are satisfied. You might also try 1-800-222-LUNG (I think that’s the number). It’s the LungLine, and they have RNs to answer your questions. I’ve often felt doctors want to rush me out…I don’t need to know more…etc. But I think they owe it to you to answer your very reasonable questions (and allay your fears) about your daughter and her health. Good luck— Susan
Response:
Hi, I need advice about my daughter. Keziah is 4 months old. Ever since I brought her home from the hospital, she would wheeze a little here and there. We also discovered she has an intolerance for milk. Last Friday was our first night away from her. She spent four hours with her aunt, who has a cat. When I brought her home, she started wheezing. I’ve never heard her like this before. It was just this loud sucking sound. She was mad, oh god, was she mad. She would try to scream, at first nothing came out, then she’d start hollering. She’d curl her body up. When I took her to my doctor, she listened to her chest and said her lungs sound fine. She said she thinks she has a virus that can cause this type of reaction (and she said it could stretch over a period of months). My worry is that if there is a virus bad enough to cause wheezing, her lungs would sound bad. She said she doesn’t want to diagnose a baby this young with asthma. She also always has a stuffy nose. I use saline drops, but it doesn’t seem to do much good. When you have asthma, will your lungs always sound different? Does anyone have any advice? I’m worried sick about her. A very nice young lady emailed me on this today, but I deleted it accidentally. Thanks, Tami
Response:
My pulmonologist has recommended a bronchoscopy to dtermine what keeps causing my recurrent pneumonia and I was wondering if anyone had any first hand knowledge of this procedure? Any and all responses would be greatly appreciate. Just a little background information, I am 25, I have had asthma all my life, but it has gotten worse in the last five years. I have been hospitalized five times in the last 8 months. Each time has been for pneumonia and asthma. The short stay has been 2 days and the longest 8. again any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Beth Snider
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My pulmonologist has recommended a bronchoscopy to dtermine what keeps causing my recurrent pneumonia and I was wondering if anyone had any first hand knowledge of this procedure? Any and all responses would be greatly appreciate. Just a little background information, I am 25, I have had asthma all my life, but it has gotten worse in the last five years. I have been hospitalized five times in the last 8 months. Each time has been for pneumonia and asthma. The short stay has been 2 days and the longest 8. again any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Beth Snider
Hi! I had a bronchoscopy two years ago. Do not be afraid, it does not hurt at all, only very unpleasant… And it is very nice after, to hear the doctor say that he did not see anything wrong… Yves Dussault
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I had one a few months ago. I absolutely did not feel anything during the procedure nor afterwards. When I arrived home I took a nap for about an hour and a half and then woke up feeling fine. In my case the pulmonologist was looking for some malformation but there was none.Relax if you are worried about pain.
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Does anyone experience a cough with execise and cold air exposure? I am not on asthma medication at this time because my pulmonary doctor said my asthma is mild and I don’t need medication. Could someone tell me how I can control the coughing fits I experience after exercise. This started about three years ago. I was a long distance runner, but have given it up because of the coughing. What kind of medication could be prescribed to control the coughing spells. Pamela
Response:
If you’re anything like me, it may be "mild" asthma, but it’s enough to cause the coughing — so that seems to indicate it does in fact need treatment. You can actually traumatize your vocal chords and make matters worse, and then you start coughing just from the coughing. In my case, it resisted everything except a Flovent inhaler, the big dose. That seems to do the trick, even though I never wheeze or anything, and whenever I think I’m better and stop taking it, the coughing comes back maybe a week or two later at the most. My allergist tried a Tilade inhaler first, but that didn’t work for me at all. Pierre
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone experience a cough with execise and cold air exposure? I am not on asthma medication at this time because my pulmonary doctor said my asthma is mild and I don’t need medication. Could someone tell me how I can control the coughing fits I experience after exercise. This started about three years ago. I was a long distance runner, but have given it up because of the coughing. What kind of medication could be prescribed to control the coughing spells. Pamela
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Does anyone experience a cough with execise and cold air exposure? I am not on asthma medication at this time because my pulmonary doctor said my asthma is mild and I don’t need medication.
You need a new doctor. At the very minimum _all_ asthmatics should be prescribed a rescue inhaler. "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off." General Colin Powell
Response:
Hi Pamela – If you’ve given up running because of your asthma, you really do need to use medication, no matter what your doctor’s opinion is of your asthma’s severity. I have asthma, and I run, and I couldn’t without using my inhaler first. I use an albuterol inhaler before exercise, and have no problems. Without it I’m wheezing as soon as I get above a stroll. Nancy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone experience a cough with execise and cold air exposure? I am not on asthma medication at this time because my pulmonary doctor said my asthma is mild and I don’t need medication. Could someone tell me how I can control the coughing fits I experience after exercise. This started about three years ago. I was a long distance runner, but have given it up because of the coughing. What kind of medication could be prescribed to control the coughing spells. Pamela
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Get a real doctor.
Response:
Does anyone experience a cough with execise and cold air exposure? I am not on asthma medication at this time because my pulmonary doctor said my asthma is mild and I don’t need medication. Could someone tell me how I can control the coughing fits I experience after exercise. This started about three years ago. I was a long distance runner, but have given it up because of the coughing. What kind of medication could be prescribed to control the coughing spells. Pamela
Exercise or cold air are triggers for asthma. Coughing is one of the symptoms of asthma. It sounds like you have Mild Intermittent asthma and should be prescribed an albuterol rescue inhaler to use as needed for symptoms, like coughing. Pretreating with albuterol before exercise may help. If using albuterol inhaler helps control the coughing, that helps confirms the asthma diagnosis. Link: http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1998/06jun/dis_pa.htm Your Guide to Exercising With Asthma Ellis
Response:
Does anyone experience a cough with execise and cold air exposure? I am not on asthma medication at this time because my pulmonary doctor said my asthma is mild and I don’t need medication. Could someone tell me how I can control the coughing fits I experience after exercise. This started about three years ago. I was a long distance runner, but have given it up because of the coughing. What kind of medication could be prescribed to control the coughing spells. Pamela
Frankly you should not exercise in cold or dry air environments. http://www.lung.ca/asthma/exercise/factors.html#conditions Some researchers believe that exercising in drying conditions can result in permanent changes to the airways. http://respiratorycare.medscape.com/MedscapeWire/2000/0900/medwire.09… http://www.lung.ca/asthma/exercise/sports.html#skiing Exercise induced asthma has often been demonstrated to be due to drying of the airways. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7677239&form=… Cool air is dryer by physical law and requires more energy to hydrate, thus it cools the upper airways and penetrates deeper into the lung drying it. Warmer (dry) air does not cool as much but will tend to dry the upper airways by reducing reclaimed moisture on expiration. (Moist condenses on a cooler surface) After exercise the airways are even warmer and likely results in a greater loss of moisture to the atmosphere. The lung has a slow recovery to these effects and is likely under considerable stress in these conditions. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=3780165&form=… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=3823651&form=… Use your rescue inhaler if necessary, a scarfe or mask in cold conditions and warm up before exercising but also breathe nasally with a smart inspiration and a slow prolonged expiration. This will help rehydrate and rewarm your airways as moisture and heat are reclaimed from the expired air. This helps keep the surface moisture at normal levels and osmolarity normal. If you do have coughing symptoms an initial increase in the need to cough occurs as moisture returns but this is soon followed by a reduction so do persevere with it. Breathing in this way I find is theraputic and can have lasting benefits, it is best at preventing symptoms rather than reversing them. In the short term it does prevent EIA if you begin before and continue during exercise, it also prolongs the effect of rescue meds. I rarely use more than 1 puff (Ventolin) and its not needed at all for my more moderate exercises. Other refs. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=1803586&form=… http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/03mar/storms.htm Note the high percentage of EIA in healthy military population. http://web4.infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/infomark/564/254/70562329w3/pu… _aep=casey_cardinia or Chest, Feb 1996 v109 n2 p298(2) Asthma in athletes: exercise-induced bronchoconstriction in figure skaters. Where 43 of 124 (35%) exhibit EIA. Bill not an MD.
Response:
Well, this certainly sounds like a friendly group. Surely, you must be confusing me with someone else. Pete
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter, I only took the anxiety meds long enough to rule out anxiety. If I was you I wouldn’t waste my time being so civil to Petey.
Response:
why would it be a waste of time bieing civil to pete, is that for asthma or something related
Try a few of the extracts from FunnyFolks. Page 3 forming as we speak. I just want to make yousmile.OHear an oldtimer singOBirthcontrol
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Response:
Peter, I only took the anxiety meds long enough to rule out anxiety. If I was you I wouldn’t waste my time being so civil to Petey.
I’m a bit confused as I’ve seen follow up posts from Peter Kolb and from Pierre L. (who signs himself as Pete). To whom are you referring as Petey? Jo.
Response:
Kolb
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a bit confused as I’ve seen follow up posts from Peter Kolb and from Pierre L. (who signs himself as Pete). To whom are you referring as Petey? Jo.
Response:
Peter, I only took the anxiety meds long enough to rule out anxiety. I had a very severe illness and that is probably the reason I was diagnoised with panic attacks and anxiety. My health is much better now, but the asthma has gotten worse. At one time, I only had breathing problems one or twice a week…now I am aware of it all the time. I am currently on crymolyn and xopenex. Xopenex has helped much more than the albuterol did.
Response:
Peter, I only took the anxiety meds long enough to rule out anxiety.
If I was you I wouldn’t waste my time being so civil to Petey.
Response:
Interesting case. In my experience, it’s very hard to get an initial diagnosis of asthma if wheezing is not present (I’ve been through that myself). In the real world, most doctors still don’t buy completely into asthma where no wheezing can be heard. Anxiety diagnoses seems to be in fashion these days. Well, when you feel you can’t breathe properly, you do get anxious. It’s almost impossible not to. Then the medical establishment puts you on some benzodiazepine. That often makes any underlying mild asthma worse, because contrary to what many experts will say, many people suffer noticeable respiratory depression on those drugs (the feeling that they will stop breathing, or laboured breathing), and so the anxiety isn’t helped, but the patient often becomes hooked on the benzodiazepine (the politically-correct term is *dependent", but it’s the same thing as far as the patient is concerned). So now you can’t breathe with the benzo, and yet you can’t live without suffering horrible withdrawal effects. Then there is the added factor that an asthma attack can actually turn into a hyperventilation episode as the patient tries to breathe harder and eventually succeeds in doing so. So now we’re back to hyperventilation and anxiety again. By the time such a patient gets looked at in the ER or wherever, it often does look like simple hyperventilation. A mild asthmatic can go for years like this, caught in a viscious circle. Bottom line, I think, is if a bronchodilator helps noticeably, there is reactive airways of some kind. Now, if you are on anxiety medication and you go into any ER, good luck in not being dismissed as a nut case, no matter what you have. Pete
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chilla, Thank you so much for your response to the post about hyperventilation. I truely resented his comments. It has taken me three years to find out why I was having dizzy spells,numb arms and legs, chest pains (tight chest) as well as breathing problems. My doctor referred me to a gastroenterologist and neurologist. The gastroenterologist doctor found cronic inflammation in the air ways, but said the chest pain was caused from panic attacks. The neurologist had me breathe in and out several times and said I had hyperventilation syndrome. My pcp and the other two doctors decided I needed to be put on meds for anxiety. I had other health problems that required 5 surgeries in 2 years and I presume this is where the diagnoises of anxiety came in. I had no relief from any of those meds for anxiety. Each report states I have a history of allergies, cronic sinus infections and breathing problems. My son and my father both have a history of asthma. My doctor sent me to an ENT. The ENT said I have a deviated septum and needed surgery. I decided against surgery. From there I had alleregy tests done. The test results showed I was allergic to dust mites and mold. Two of the doctors mentioned asthma, but said I didn’t have it because I didn’t wheeze. So for three years I thought my breathing problems was all in my head (panic attacks.) I was being treated for anxiety. The breathing problems kept getting worse and worse. Finally, my breathing problems were getting so bad that I couldn’t stand up and I was close to passing out. I tried breathing in a paper bag, but that didn’t help at all. I was taken to the ER and as before I didn’t have the wheezing in my lungs. The DO took chest xrays and found trapping in my lungs. That first does of Albuterol was absolute heaven. I love my inhalers because I can take deep breathes for the first time in years. I gave up long distance running because I would end up coughing so much. I am not angry at my doctors, but I don’t think they were looking at the whole picture. Needless to say I am switching doctors. I am switching from an MD to a DO.
Response:
Peter writes: Numbness in the limbs and muscle spasms are classical symptoms of Hyperventilation. When you hyperventilate you don’t build up carbon dioxide… the problem is that you lose too much. According to Peter, every symptom is a sign of chronic hyperventilation. The Buteyko Hyperventilation theories are good only for rainy days when the ducks are out. Pure Quackery. This quackery been thouroughly exposed over and over and over again on this newsgroup in the past. Chilla
And we thank you all for doing so, keep going Noel
Response:
Peter writes: Numbness in the limbs and muscle spasms are classical symptoms of Hyperventilation. When you hyperventilate you don’t build up carbon dioxide… the problem is that you lose too much.
According to Peter, every symptom is a sign of chronic hyperventilation. The Buteyko Hyperventilation theories are good only for rainy days when the ducks are out. Pure Quackery. This quackery been thouroughly exposed over and over and over again on this newsgroup in the past. Chilla
Response:
Chilla, Thank you so much for your response to the post about hyperventilation. I truely resented his comments. It has taken me three years to find out why I was having dizzy spells,numb arms and legs, chest pains (tight chest) as well as breathing problems. My doctor referred me to a gastroenterologist and neurologist. The gastroenterologist doctor found cronic inflammation in the air ways, but said the chest pain was caused from panic attacks. The neurologist had me breathe in and out several times and said I had hyperventilation syndrome. My pcp and the other two doctors decided I needed to be put on meds for anxiety. I had other health problems that required 5 surgeries in 2 years and I presume this is where the diagnoises of anxiety came in. I had no relief from any of those meds for anxiety. Each report states I have a history of allergies, cronic sinus infections and breathing problems. My son and my father both have a history of asthma. My doctor sent me to an ENT. The ENT said I have a deviated septum and needed surgery. I decided against surgery. From there I had alleregy tests done. The test results showed I was allergic to dust mites and mold. Two of the doctors mentioned asthma, but said I didn’t have it because I didn’t wheeze. So for three years I thought my breathing problems was all in my head (panic attacks.) I was being treated for anxiety. The breathing problems kept getting worse and worse. Finally, my breathing problems were getting so bad that I couldn’t stand up and I was close to passing out. I tried breathing in a paper bag, but that didn’t help at all. I was taken to the ER and as before I didn’t have the wheezing in my lungs. The DO took chest xrays and found trapping in my lungs. That first does of Albuterol was absolute heaven. I love my inhalers because I can take deep breathes for the first time in years. I gave up long distance running because I would end up coughing so much. I am not angry at my doctors, but I don’t think they were looking at the whole picture. Needless to say I am switching doctors. I am switching from an MD to a DO.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chilla, Thank you so much for your response to the post about hyperventilation. I truely resented his comments. It has taken me three years to find out why I was having dizzy spells,numb arms and legs, chest pains (tight chest) as well as breathing problems. My doctor referred me to a gastroenterologist and neurologist. The gastroenterologist doctor found cronic inflammation in the air ways, but said the chest pain was caused from panic attacks. The neurologist had me breathe in and out several times and said I had hyperventilation syndrome. My pcp and the other two doctors decided I needed to be put on meds for anxiety. I had other health problems that required 5 surgeries in 2 years and I presume this is where the diagnoises of anxiety came in. I had no relief from any of those meds for anxiety. Each report states I have a history of allergies, cronic sinus infections and breathing problems. My son and my father both have a history of asthma. My doctor sent me to an ENT. The ENT said I have a deviated septum and needed surgery. I decided against surgery. From there I had alleregy tests done. The test results showed I was allergic to dust mites and mold. Two of the doctors mentioned asthma, but said I didn’t have it because I didn’t wheeze. So for three years I thought my breathing problems was all in my head (panic attacks.) I was being treated for anxiety. The breathing problems kept getting worse and worse. Finally, my breathing problems were getting so bad that I couldn’t stand up and I was close to passing out. I tried breathing in a paper bag, but that didn’t help at all. I was taken to the ER and as before I didn’t have the wheezing in my lungs. The DO took chest xrays and found trapping in my lungs. That first does of Albuterol was absolute heaven. I love my inhalers because I can take deep breathes for the first time in years. I gave up long distance running because I would end up coughing so much. I am not angry at my doctors, but I don’t think they were looking at the whole picture. Needless to say I am switching doctors. I am switching from an MD to a DO.
Very strange. Usually asthma is one of the first diagnoses made for any problems even vaguely resembling yours.
Response:
Numbness in the limbs and muscle spasms are classical symptoms of Hyperventilation.
"Is there someone out there who has something intelligent to say on this subject??" Information on Peter Kolb’s FAQ provided by grateful asthmatics http://x58.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=630546788 http://x43.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516045817 http://x43.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=515747459 http://x43.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=513664587 http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=610602357 http://x33.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=574579799 http://x43.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=587913240 http://x33.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=572979378 http://x33.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=572964457 http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=610670864 http://x31.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=588722048 http://x43.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=601530651 http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=606972830 http://x23.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=618246133 http://x33.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=625328034
Response:
I’m Johnathon a 19 year old male, in good shape. I’ve had similar problems as you have had. My limbs would go numb and start arthopating, what your experiencing is from hyperventilating and causing the CO2 to build in the blood. I am just wondering does any other asthmatics have problems with dizzy spells and limbs going numb. When I experience very severe breathing problems, I notice that my arms and legs go numb.
Numbness in the limbs and muscle spasms are classical symptoms of Hyperventilation. When you hyperventilate you don’t build up carbon dioxide… the problem is that you lose too much. Carbon dioxide is absolutely essential for life. Spasms in the smooth muscles of the arterioles and bronchioles is a result of CO2 levels being too low. This impedes blood flow, and in the case of the bronchioles, air flow to the alveoli which we recognize as one of the symptoms of asthma. The reduction in blood flow to the brain and heart can also cause migraines and heart problems including angina pains. Because your breathing is paced according to the CO2 levels you are used to (Oxygen is not normally a driving force in breathing), you have to learn to increase your baseline CO2 level by getting used to more Carbon dioxide in your blood. This is achieved by a reduction in breathing. Some people can achieve fairly good results just through relaxation, but for a very effective way of solving the problem you should try Buteyko therapy. The method is specifically aimed at raising your CO2 levels. The above explanation is based on the Hyperventilation theory, which contends that chronic hyperventilation is the cause of disorders such as asthma, migraine, and any other stress related disorder. (Stress increases respiration). Most doctors don’t want to know about it, but some do. My peek flow meter runs between 150-350. I am a small woman and I don’t know
The hyperventilation theory explains that peak flow measurements reflect the level of obstruction caused by a combination of inflammation, mucus plugging and bronchospasm, the latter being caused by the hyperventilation manoeuvre inherent in the test. From a purely scientific point of view it is, therefore, a meaningless measure, although it is widely accepted as the gold standard in asthma measurement. Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm
Response:
Hey Pam, I’m Johnathon a 19 year old male, in good shape. I’ve had similar problems as you have had. My limbs would go numb and start arthopating, what your experiencing is from hyperventilating and causing the CO2 to build in the blood. I couldn’t even use my inhalers because of the adverse effect they had on me, Albuterol would make me breathe really hard (chest tightness) for 15 mins and I’d start shaking and get twitches in different parts of body. I have been taking sinulair, flovent and xopenex for rescue med when at home and I carry my handi-dandi-Albuterol for when I’m at work and stuff. I also recently had Sinus Surgeury, the post nasal drip into the lungs only agrivated things. Talk to you doctor about Singulair, its a Leukotine Inhibitor, leukotines are mechanisms involved in the inflamatory process, asthma is an over reaction by the immune system causing an inflammation in the lungs, which causes the airways to constrict etc. Leukotines are similar to histamines, you know when you get stung by something that your allergic to or have heard of or seen a friend swell up from a reaction, well Leukotines are about 1000x more potent then Histamines. Singulair is a pill taken once a day, for me the combination flovent, Singulair has helped me
I was recently been diagnoised with asthma. I suspect I have had it for several years, but I was not diagnoised until three weeks ago. I am
waiting to get in to see a pulmonary specialists. My doctor tried very hard to get me
in to see a specialist, but the doctors are very busy and it will be three
more weeks before I can get in. I am just wondering does any other asthmatics have problems with dizzy
spells and limbs going numb. When I experience very severe breathing problems, I notice that my arms and legs go numb. My peek flow meter runs between 150-350. I am a small woman and I don’t
know what my peek flow meter should be. Could someone please explain what a
peek flow meter reading should be for a small woman. My doctor first started me on Proventil inhaler and Azmacort. I found
myself having to use the meds more and more to get relief. My doctor then
switched me to Albuterol Solution and Azmacort. I continued to have problems with
these meds as well. I have gone to the ER three weekends in a row due to
breathing problems. Finally, last weekend the ER doctor gave me Xophenex and Cromyln Inhaler. These helped much more than any medicine I have taken so far. I need to know of some helpful books and medical journals I can read to
learn about this disease. I would appreciate as much help and advice as
possible. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks so much! Pam
Response:
Hey Pam, I’m Johnathon a 19 year old male, in good shape. I’ve had similar problems as you have had. My limbs would go numb and start arthopating, what your experiencing is from hyperventilating and causing the CO2 to build in the blood. I couldn’t even use my inhalers because of the adverse effect they had on me, Albuterol would make me breathe really hard (chest tightness) for 15 mins and I’d start shaking and get twitches in different parts of body. I have been taking sinulair, flovent and xopenex for rescue med when at home and I carry my handi-dandi-Albuterol for when I’m at work and stuff. I also recently had Sinus Surgeury, the post nasal drip into the lungs only agrivated things. Talk to you doctor about Singulair, its a Leukotine Inhibitor, leukotines are mechanisms involved in the inflamatory process, asthma is an over reaction by the immune system causing an inflammation in the lungs, which causes the airways to constrict etc. Leukotines are similar to histamines, you know when you get stung by something that your allergic to or have heard of or seen a friend swell up from a reaction, well Leukotines are about 1000x more potent then Histamines. Singulair is a pill taken once a day, for me the combination flovent, Singulair has helped me
I was recently been diagnoised with asthma. I suspect I have had it for several years, but I was not diagnoised until three weeks ago. I am
waiting to get in to see a pulmonary specialists. My doctor tried very hard to get me
in to see a specialist, but the doctors are very busy and it will be three
more weeks before I can get in. I am just wondering does any other asthmatics have problems with dizzy
spells and limbs going numb. When I experience very severe breathing problems, I notice that my arms and legs go numb. My peek flow meter runs between 150-350. I am a small woman and I don’t
know what my peek flow meter should be. Could someone please explain what a
peek flow meter reading should be for a small woman. My doctor first started me on Proventil inhaler and Azmacort. I found
myself having to use the meds more and more to get relief. My doctor then
switched me to Albuterol Solution and Azmacort. I continued to have problems with
these meds as well. I have gone to the ER three weekends in a row due to
breathing problems. Finally, last weekend the ER doctor gave me Xophenex and Cromyln Inhaler. These helped much more than any medicine I have taken so far. I need to know of some helpful books and medical journals I can read to
learn about this disease. I would appreciate as much help and advice as
possible. Thanks so much! Pam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was recently been diagnoised with asthma. I suspect I have had it for several years, but I was not diagnoised until three weeks ago. I am waiting to get in to see a pulmonary specialists. My doctor tried very hard to get me in to see a specialist, but the doctors are very busy and it will be three more weeks before I can get in. I am just wondering does any other asthmatics have problems with dizzy spells and limbs going numb. When I experience very severe breathing problems, I notice that my arms and legs go numb. My peek flow meter runs between 150-350. I am a small woman and I don’t know what my peek flow meter should be. Could someone please explain what a peek flow meter reading should be for a small woman. My doctor first started me on Proventil inhaler and Azmacort. I found myself having to use the meds more and more to get relief. My doctor then switched me to Albuterol Solution and Azmacort. I continued to have problems with these meds as well. I have gone to the ER three weekends in a row due to breathing problems. Finally, last weekend the ER doctor gave me Xophenex and Cromyln Inhaler. These helped much more than any medicine I have taken so far. I need to know of some helpful books and medical journals I can read to learn about this disease. I would appreciate as much help and advice as possible. Thanks so much! Pam
Response:
I was recently been diagnoised with asthma. I suspect I have had it for several years, but I was not diagnoised until three weeks ago. I am waiting to get in to see a pulmonary specialists. My doctor tried very hard to get me in to see a specialist, but the doctors are very busy and it will be three more weeks before I can get in. I am just wondering does any other asthmatics have problems with dizzy spells and limbs going numb. When I experience very severe breathing problems, I notice that my arms and legs go numb. My peek flow meter runs between 150-350. I am a small woman and I don’t know what my peek flow meter should be. Could someone please explain what a peek flow meter reading should be for a small woman. My doctor first started me on Proventil inhaler and Azmacort. I found myself having to use the meds more and more to get relief. My doctor then switched me to Albuterol Solution and Azmacort. I continued to have problems with these meds as well. I have gone to the ER three weekends in a row due to breathing problems. Finally, last weekend the ER doctor gave me Xophenex and Cromyln Inhaler. These helped much more than any medicine I have taken so far. I need to know of some helpful books and medical journals I can read to learn about this disease. I would appreciate as much help and advice as possible. Thanks so much! Pam
Response:
Hello to all, I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, last week. My question is that can this type of diabetes be developed or enhanced by trauma or stress. I am currently recovering from a traumatic work accident that resulted in 3 major surgeries and blood transfusion of 4 units. I also have been suffering from psychological problems because of the severity of the accident. It has been almost 2 years since the incident and I have been stressed since and, with the operations it has caused my usually active lifestyle to be limited along with the depression I have gained an excessive amount of weight I am 300 lbs and 6ft 5 inches tall. I am wondering if these conditions can be partly responsible for the development of type 2 diabetes, if you can tell or you know where I can get some information on this topic I would be very appreciative. There has been a history of diabetes in my family, my Grandmother on my mothers side but no one else in my immediate or extended family. I know I have a predisposition for it but I wonder if not for the accident would I have developed diabetes. I thank for your time and it is nice to see that there is a forum like this to help me. Thanks Joe
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello to all, I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, last week. My question is that can this type of diabetes be developed or enhanced by trauma or stress. I am currently recovering from a traumatic work accident that resulted in 3 major surgeries and blood transfusion of 4 units. I also have been suffering from psychological problems because of the severity of the accident. It has been almost 2 years since the incident and I have been stressed since and, with the operations it has caused my usually active lifestyle to be limited along with the depression I have gained an excessive amount of weight I am 300 lbs and 6ft 5 inches tall. I am wondering if these conditions can be partly responsible for the development of type 2 diabetes, if you can tell or you know where I can get some information on this topic I would be very appreciative. There has been a history of diabetes in my family, my Grandmother on my mothers side but no one else in my immediate or extended family. I know I have a predisposition for it but I wonder if not for the accident would I have developed diabetes. I thank for your time and it is nice to see that there is a forum like this to help me.
I’m not an expert, but stress and illness definitely raise my blood sugars. Excess weight and lack of exercise also tends to increase one’s insulin needs. A good place to start reading up on it is here (click on the tiny words "Newly Diagnosed" in the left hand column): www.diabetes.org — dx as Type 1 in Mar 00, pumpin’ insulin! "I’d rather be loved by only me, than create a facade and be loved by no one." — wombn "Never give up", Winston Churchill www.mindspring.com/~wombn On ANY "advice" I give here: I expect you to research it and confirm it independently
Response:
Joe – Sorry to hear about your problems, but welcome – lots of experienced and knowledgeable folks here that can help out — Can’t really help with your specific question, but keep in mind that you’re pretty much born with the predisposition for diabetes, or you’re not (life just ain’t fair), so in that regard, it’s doubtful that an accident can "cause" diabetes (other than pancreatic trauma "creating" some T1s). However, stress, obesity, inactivity are all amongst the "triggers" that can bring on the onset of symptoms. I’m sure someone else has probably already pointed you in this direction, but check out the ADA website (I think www.diabetes.org) and see the Newly Diagnosed section – a lot of info (the amount to learn at the beginning can be overwhelming – just keep going back and reading it over and over till it sinks in — Best thing I did was get into an education program – can’t suggest this strongly enough – Good luck – Tom
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello to all, I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, last week. My question is that can this type of diabetes be developed or enhanced by trauma or stress. I am currently recovering from a traumatic work accident that resulted in 3 major surgeries and blood transfusion of 4 units. I also have been suffering from psychological problems because of the severity of the accident. It has been almost 2 years since the incident and I have been stressed since and, with the operations it has caused my usually active lifestyle to be limited along with the depression I have gained an excessive amount of weight I am 300 lbs and 6ft 5 inches tall. I am wondering if these conditions can be partly responsible for the development of type 2 diabetes, if you can tell or you know where I can get some information on this topic I would be very appreciative. There has been a history of diabetes in my family, my Grandmother on my mothers side but no one else in my immediate or extended family. I know I have a predisposition for it but I wonder if not for the accident would I have developed diabetes. I thank for your time and it is nice to see that there is a forum like this to help me. Thanks Joe
Response:
Joe, Here in Latin America it is considered fact that a time of stress or shock or trauma can cause diabetes to begin in a person who is predisposed to have it. the doctors here say that it is bunk and an old wives tale. I tend to be in the middle. From the reading I am doing weight gain would be a much greater factor. a lot of people I know who are diabetics, developed the disease after some kind of emotional experience. the American Diabetes Association Complete guide to diabetes says on page 14 "you can’t get diabetes- either type one or type two- from stress, exposure to someone who already has diabetes, or from something you ate. And although diabetes may reveal itself after an illness or a stressful experience, these may have only speeded up the appearance of the disease." You may have developed it earlier due to the things you mentioned but probably would have developed it anyway. the only way you may not have developed it is, if you hadn’t gained the weight. I am not a doctor and although I have had diabetes for about 7 years, I have only been studying it for about one year, so my opinion is essentially worthless. You have my sympathy and understanding. I want to help others to avoid the complications that I have had because of this disease. Stick around and ask questions. Ignore anyone who is rude. You won’t find all your answers here but there are some smart people around here with a lot of knowledge about this disease. it sounds like you have really been through the wringer. You need to face this thing now. Take care of yourself. we are here if you need us. — Tony in Mexico
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello to all, I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, last week. My question is that can this type of diabetes be developed or enhanced by trauma or stress. I am currently recovering from a traumatic work accident that resulted in 3 major surgeries and blood transfusion of 4 units. I also have been suffering from psychological problems because of the severity of the accident. It has been almost 2 years since the incident and I have been stressed since and, with the operations it has caused my usually active lifestyle to be limited along with the depression I have gained an excessive amount of weight I am 300 lbs and 6ft 5 inches tall. I am wondering if these conditions can be partly responsible for the development of type 2 diabetes, if you can tell or you know where I can get some information on this topic I would be very appreciative. There has been a history of diabetes in my family, my Grandmother on my mothers side but no one else in my immediate or extended family. I know I have a predisposition for it but I wonder if not for the accident would I have developed diabetes. I thank for your time and it is nice to see that there is a forum like this to help me. Thanks Joe
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello to all, I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, last week. My question is that can this type of diabetes be developed or enhanced by trauma or stress. I am currently recovering from a traumatic work accident that resulted in 3 major surgeries and blood transfusion of 4 units. I also have been suffering from psychological problems because of the severity of the accident. It has been almost 2 years since the incident and I have been stressed since and, with the operations it has caused my usually active lifestyle to be limited along with the depression I have gained an excessive amount of weight I am 300 lbs and 6ft 5 inches tall. I am wondering if these conditions can be partly responsible for the development of type 2 diabetes, if you can tell or you know where I can get some information on this topic I would be very appreciative. There has been a history of diabetes in my family, my Grandmother on my mothers side but no one else in my immediate or extended family. I know I have a predisposition for it but I wonder if not for the accident would I have developed diabetes. I thank for your time and it is nice to see that there is a forum like this to help me. Thanks Joe
Nobody can say whether you were going to be a diabetic anyway. And it doesn’t matter. What matters is what you do about it now that you are. However I will say that my father who was about 65 at the time, walked out to the mailbox at the end of his driveway in the Matauska Valley in Alaska one fall day, slipped and fell on the ice. Broke a couple ribs. It was cold and icy but such a short trip he didn’t wear a coat. He fell on his back and couldn’t get up. My parents have a large house (6000 sq. feet) and none of the windows in the house that have a view of the mailbox are in rooms that people spend much time in. He wasn’t missed for more than half an hour because he works at home and nobody knew he wasn’t downstairs in his office. When my niece discovered him she couldn’t get him up. She is only 5′2" and then weighed about 120 pounds. He is 5′10" and about 300 pounds. Instead of calling an ambulance, she called her boyfriend and his father to come help. They took 20 minutes to get there before picking him up and taking him to the hospital. A YEAR LATER my parents were traveling through the southwest, and he became terribly ill driving across the desert. They stopped at a little clinic and he ended up being airlifted to Albequerque. They found him seriously ill from an infection. Some of his internal organs had turned black. The doctors explained that sometimes happens from serious falls like the one my father experienced. His body was fighting a major infection and there was some question whether he could be stabilized to the point where he could survive surgury. He was diagnosed with diabetes at that time although they didn"t tell us kids The doctors said it sometimes occurs in these kinds of trauma. Now was the trauma the only cause? There is no diabetes in Dad’s family that we can find. I’m a genealogist and I’ve been tracking bloodlines for 30 years. Because of a series of tragic miscarriages we did a massive letter writing campaign for medical histories and no diabetes has showed up on that side. BUT my father did weigh nearly 300 pounds when he was diagnosed and he battled weight most of his life. The generation previous to his died young of heart attacks before they would likely be diagnosed under the criteria of the time. My father had a heart attack 20 years ago almost identical to the one that killed his father and uncles but a bypass saved him. If he’d died 20 years ago he wouldn’t have been diagnosed 5 years ago with diabetes. So is it in his family? Who knows. See there’s no simple answer, but I hope this at least illuminated you a bit on the trauma question. Carol D.
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Hello to all, I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, last week. My question is that can this type of diabetes be developed or enhanced by trauma or stress. I am currently recovering from a traumatic work accident that resulted in 3 major surgeries and blood transfusion of 4 units. I also have been suffering from psychological problems because of the severity of the accident. It has been almost 2 years since the incident and I have been stressed since and, with the operations
stress can be a trigger to diabetes, but usually closer to the "stressing event" it has caused my usually active lifestyle to be limited along with the depression I have gained an excessive amount of weight I am 300 lbs and 6ft 5 inches tall. I am wondering if these conditions can be partly responsible for the development of type 2 diabetes,
significant impact on you developing diabetes if you can tell or you know where I can get some information on this topic I would be very appreciative. There has been a history of diabetes in my family, my Grandmother on my mothers side but no one else in my immediate or extended family. I know I have a predisposition for it but I wonder if not for the accident would I have developed diabetes. I thank for your time and it is nice to see that there is a forum like this to help me. Thanks Joe
would have maintained your exercise level, which impacted you in the means without a genetic predisposition to diabetes, you may have survived all of these events without the diabetic side affect……. make sense? you’ll receive lots of feedback take care, — k t1 13 yr
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I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but i believe you would have it anyway. You hae the genetics and the girth and the accident and stress didnt helpp it along but in my honest opinon asing that question is a moot point because now you hae diabetes and it is what you do with this information that will deterimine your outcome You know you hae to change your lifestyle and I think you get a way of eating for you and see how many carbs yo can have. You didnt mention testing and in the beginnning you should be testing eight ties a day, when you wake up, before breakfast, two housrs after finishing breafast so you can see how the foods affected you bgs and then before eachmeal and two hours again and some test before bedtme. I dont. But your meter wil be your best guide as to how foods are affecting you. YOu had a terrible thing happen to you , I hope tht you are in therapy to help you get over this because stress does raise bgs levels and you have to try and get rid of it. I hope I was helpful Loetta Tell it like it is with sensitivity
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Thanks to all who responded to my post 
Its one of those questions that has no concrete answer, I guess an answer is what one looks for when face with such situations. The only real answer is to take care of myself to improve my quality of life and I know that is what I plan to do. I consider myself lucky to even be here, the cost of admission I guess to this event we call life. Thanks again Joe
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello to all, I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, last week. My question is that can this type of diabetes be developed or enhanced by trauma or stress. I am currently recovering from a traumatic work accident that resulted in 3 major surgeries and blood transfusion of 4 units. I also have been suffering from psychological problems because of the severity of the accident. It has been almost 2 years since the incident and I have been stressed since and, with the operations it has caused my usually active lifestyle to be limited along with the depression I have gained an excessive amount of weight I am 300 lbs and 6ft 5 inches tall. I am wondering if these conditions can be partly responsible for the development of type 2 diabetes, if you can tell or you know where I can get some information on this topic I would be very appreciative. There has been a history of diabetes in my family, my Grandmother on my mothers side but no one else in my immediate or extended family. I know I have a predisposition for it but I wonder if not for the accident would I have developed diabetes. I thank for your time and it is nice to see that there is a forum like this to help me. Thanks Joe
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BTW hopsing how is the Ponderosa these days and the Cartwrigt boys. I hear only one is alive the eldest one. LOL. I wonder how many picked this up. If you get on the millionire show, you have my permission to call me as a lifeline. Loretta Tell it like it is with sensitivity
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My normal regimen is 35 Lantus at bedtime, and various amounts of Humalog during the day. 10u at breakfast, 18u at lunch, 24u at dinner, and another 20u or so to cover snacks at night. Occasionally if I go out to dinner and eat bad, or eat holiday food, or go off my diet, or forget a shot, I get up into the 400-500 mg/dl range and play heck getting down. Even Humalog doesn’t touch it for hours at 40u. In my "old" days I seem to remember shooting about 30u of NPH mixed with 20u of R which got me down faster with more "authority" so to speak. I have left those Insulins behind, but wonder if any one can make a suggestion when mistakes happen. I don’t want to make any permanent changes to my regimen. This is rare for me, and I normally keep good control. Thanks. Larry
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Hi, Mack. I failed to mention my normal numbers, and my normal diet. Yesterday I tested 6 times and my numbers were 84, 100, 72, 75, 124, 126 from morning to bedtime. My problem is virtually everything I put in my mouth requires a major bolus. I can’t eat cereal at breakfast, a small bowl of Cherrios with 1/2 banana, 1/2 cup skim milk requires 24 units of Humalog. One soft boiled egg, 1/4 piece English muffin (no spread), 4 ounces O.J. takes about 10-12 units to cover. At lunch I have maybe 4 ounces salmon grilled, with boiled carrots, 4 crackers w/peanut butter and 1/2 apple requires 20 units Humalog to cover. Dinner 1/2 chicken breast grilled, Brussels sprouts, sea toast, broiled mushrooms with lime juice 24 units Humalog. And a few snacks at night like a little fresh fruit, plain unsalted crackers w/cheese or peanut butter, some canned green beans or sardines on crackers. I allow 20 more units to cover snacks, and I don’t eat all of the ones I listed on a single night. And it’s getting worse, with more and more Insulin needed. Often I will fast half the day just to keep the sugar down without all that Insulin. I’ve been told by a local Endo that I’m developing "secondary failure", which involves severe Insulin resistance along with no internal Insulin production. Lantus seems to keep my sugar from creeping up when I’m fasting, but I feel like I’m dying. I just had a stroke last month, and the hospital had a full time job with the diabetes, my heart is very weak after an infection (Endocarditis) with a mech. Mitral valve, and I’m told that the Aortic Valve is starting catch some vegetation from my last echo which means another valve job soon. I don’t bother doing the math or calculating carbs, or figuring ratios, etc., since I eat basically the same things everyday. I’m not interested in food these days. Or anything else for that matter. Thanks, Mack, for replying. Larry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cast the following madness into the void: My normal regimen is 35 Lantus at bedtime, and various amounts of Humalog during the day. 10u at breakfast, 18u at lunch, 24u at dinner, and another 20u or so to cover snacks at night. Occasionally if I go out to dinner and eat bad, or eat holiday food, or go off my diet, or forget a shot, I get up into the 400-500 mg/dl range and play heck getting down. Even Humalog doesn’t touch it for hours at 40u. In my "old" days I seem to remember shooting about 30u of NPH mixed with 20u of R which got me down faster with more "authority" so to speak. I have left those Insulins behind, but wonder if any one can make a suggestion when mistakes happen. I don’t want to make any permanent changes to my regimen. This is rare for me, and I normally keep good control. Thanks. Larry You seriously need to rethink your diet if you are taking that much humalog. How to figure your dose? What is your insulin to carb ratio? what is your correction ratio? Mack Type 1 since 1975 Minimed 508 Insulin Pump http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.us.zerolimit.net (irc server webpage for our chat room) #diabeticnet is the name of our IRC chat on zerolimit.net http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/misc/webtv.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~ircle/ <–Ircle Mac IRC software
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Hi all, I`ve been reading this news group for awhile and never sent anything until now. I have a problem that’s starting to worry me, my friend has been going on about doing a world record and has got the not so bright idea of eating a large amount of sugar to make a world record and he thinks its never been done, stupid boy really, but you should know what boys are like, once they get an idea in there head they can`t be talked out of it. He’s not diabetic and I might be wrong but I don`t think the Pancras can produce enough insulin for a large intake of sugar, I`m afraid that he might go into hyperglycemia because of too high a level of glucose in the blood. He thinks that wont happen and that if he does he can always use some of my insulin, I told him I wont let him have any and that I need it for myself. What should I do to talk him out of it and is there any danger that he might damage his own beta cells from producing insulin? I wouldn’t forgive myself if he ends up developing diabetes. It was hard enough for me when I found out and took me ages to accept it, I wouldn’t want it to happen to him. Sarah
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I`ve been reading this news group for awhile and never sent anything until now. I have a problem that’s starting to worry me, my friend has been going on about doing a world record and has got the not so bright idea of eating a large amount of sugar to make a world record and he thinks its never been done, stupid boy really, but you should know what boys are like, once they get an idea in there head they can`t be talked out of it. He’s not diabetic and I might be wrong but I don`t think the Pancras can produce enough insulin for a large intake of sugar, I`m afraid that he might go into hyperglycemia because of too high a level of glucose in the blood. He thinks that wont happen and that if he does he can always use some of my insulin, I told him I wont let him have any and that I need it for myself. What should I do to talk him out of it and is there any danger that he might damage his own beta cells from producing insulin? I wouldn’t forgive myself if he ends up developing diabetes. It was hard enough for me when I found out and took me ages to accept it, I wouldn’t want it to happen to him.
If he wants to set an "official" world record, I do not believe the sanctioning body (Guiness?) would allow it if it were really dangerous. And I believe setting a world record for eating sugar would be. Diabetic or not, he probably would not be able to produce enough insulin to keep him from going into a coma if he ate a huge quantity of sugar in a short time. Jerry
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Sarah, I do believe he would be just fine, if the body has no problems then its not going to hurt him. But either way, the outcome would not be diabetes unless he was already halfway there. let him be.. he’ll do much worse.. thats just "boys" — RK [T1 - dx 5/00]-[Lantus/Novolog]-[Experiments in progress...] http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/faq http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/files/zl-mirc.exe (chatroom software/verified clean w/Norton) Current Troll List: See ASD site for current list and how to killfile
: Hi all, I`ve been reading this news group for awhile and never sent anything : until now. I have a problem that’s starting to worry me, my friend has been : going on about doing a world record and has got the not so bright idea of : eating a large amount of sugar to make a world record and he thinks its : never been done, stupid boy really, but you should know what boys are like, : once they get an idea in there head they can`t be talked out of it. He’s not : diabetic and I might be wrong but I don`t think the Pancras can produce : enough insulin for a large intake of sugar, I`m afraid that he might go into : hyperglycemia because of too high a level of glucose in the blood. He thinks : that wont happen and that if he does he can always use some of my insulin, I : told him I wont let him have any and that I need it for myself. What should : I do to talk him out of it and is there any danger that he might damage his : own beta cells from producing insulin? I wouldn’t forgive myself if he ends : up developing diabetes. It was hard enough for me when I found out and took : me ages to accept it, I wouldn’t want it to happen to him. : : : Sarah : :
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156177.news.dfncis.de: I do believe he would be just fine, if the body has no problems then its not going to hurt him. But either way, the outcome would not be diabetes unless he was already halfway there. let him be.. he’ll do much worse.. thats just "boys"
I have to agree. Assuming he’s not diabetic, he’d probably throw up long before his BG even hit 120; most people can barely keep the solution used in a GTT down, and that’s just 75g of glucose. Jerry was completely wrong about the going into a coma bit; the only possibility of coma *due* to high blood sugar is hyperosmolar non-ketotic coma (sometimes known as HONK) which doesn’t happen unless you’ve been running well into the 600s or above for days on end (we all know, don’t we, that DKA isn’t *caused* by high BG, but rather by the cells being starved for glucose). And once again, diabetes is not caused by eating sugar. Sarah is, however, quite right not to let him use her insulin.
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Tell him to look for attention some other way. Perhaps he is looking for a little more from you? Otherwise, tell him to stop being an idiot. Glenn
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I`ve been reading this news group for awhile and never sent anything until now. I have a problem that’s starting to worry me, my friend has been going on about doing a world record and has got the not so bright idea of eating a large amount of sugar to make a world record and he thinks its never been done, stupid boy really, but you should know what boys are like, once they get an idea in there head they can`t be talked out of it. He’s not diabetic and I might be wrong but I don`t think the Pancras can produce enough insulin for a large intake of sugar, I`m afraid that he might go into hyperglycemia because of too high a level of glucose in the blood. He thinks that wont happen and that if he does he can always use some of my insulin, I told him I wont let him have any and that I need it for myself. What should I do to talk him out of it and is there any danger that he might damage his own beta cells from producing insulin? I wouldn’t forgive myself if he ends up developing diabetes. It was hard enough for me when I found out and took me ages to accept it, I wouldn’t want it to happen to him. Sarah
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Sarah, unless the sugar is in liquid form how does he intend to swallow. it, I dont think you really have to worry about this cause i cant see it happening. When you say boy, how old is he. If he does it becaue he is stubborn and wont listen to reason, then he will have to pay the consequences of his decision and he will learn a very valuable lesson. I would try not to let it make you sick, the sugar will make him so nauseous he will be sick enough for both of you, IMHO Loretta In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
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I wouldn’t worry too much. If he insists on going through with it, he’ll probably be barfing uncontrollably before he gets too far into it. Haven’t you ever seen what happens to a kid when they eat too much candy? My daughter did just that last Valentine’s day (at school, of course)…wound up throwing up all night and didn’t want candy again for months! — Livin’ low carb and loving it. Posted via Active Low-Carber Forums, for Low-Carb & Atkins Diet Support http://forum.lowcarber.org & http://www.lowcarb.ca
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I`ve been reading this news group for awhile and never sent anything until now. I have a problem that’s starting to worry me, my friend has been going on about doing a world record and has got the not so bright idea of eating a large amount of sugar to make a world record and he thinks its never been done, stupid boy really, but you should know what boys are like, once they get an idea in there head they can`t be talked out of it. He’s not diabetic and I might be wrong but I don`t think the Pancras can produce enough insulin for a large intake of sugar, I`m afraid that he might go into hyperglycemia because of too high a level of glucose in the blood. He thinks that wont happen and that if he does he can always use some of my insulin, I told him I wont let him have any and that I need it for myself. What should I do to talk him out of it and is there any danger that he might damage his own beta cells from producing insulin? I wouldn’t forgive myself if he ends up developing diabetes. It was hard enough for me when I found out and took me ages to accept it, I wouldn’t want it to happen to him. If he wants to set an "official" world record, I do not believe the sanctioning body (Guiness?) would allow it if it were really dangerous. And I believe setting a world record for eating sugar would be. Diabetic or not, he probably would not be able to produce enough insulin to keep him from going into a coma if he ate a huge quantity of sugar in a short time.
Why would he go into a coma?
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Most definitely I would return to the doctor. Oozing stuff is a sign of infection or something worse. My son had frequent ear infections and when he had green, stinky stuff coming out, the doctor told us his ears may have sustained hearing loss from it. (The infection was so bad). Although he has severe scarring in his ears, his hearing was not impaired. But I would definitely return to the doctor. NOW. — Zipper COFFEE.EXE Missing – Insert Cup and Press Any Key.
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My advice is to run as quickly as you can to get a second opinion. This does not sound good. I urge you to get a second opinion as fast as you can. I have 4 children and several ear infections. Never has there been discharge from the ear. Something is not right. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a first time mom and have little experience with Ear infections. My son has had two since thanksgiving. Now he has another cold and his nose is running fairly often. My husband and I noticed last night after bathing our son that he has some mucus oozing out of his right ear. Today it still oozes but the mucus is thicker. My son does not seem to be too irritable and Saturday morning we got an all clear on the condition of his ears from the pediatrician. So my question is, was the pediatrician off on her diagnosis and do we need to take him back in? In the interim are there things we can do about the oozing? Helping it drain? Any help would be much appreciated. Before you buy.
Before you buy.
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IN the mean time, before you get into the office, and rather than going right to tubes, there are things you can do to alleviate the pain. Soak a washcloth in some warm water–not too warm, just right around body temp–squish out most of the water so that its just damp. Fold it up and lay it over your child’s ear for a few minutes. If he can, have him lie on his side; if not, hold him on your lap and cradle the cloth against his ear. If you live in a cool climate make sure you put a hat or band or something over his ear, especially if there’s a wind. His ear will be extra sensitive to the cold right now. Be sure he drinks lots of fluids. If he’s young enough yet that he’s still not eating solid foods, check with the ped as to what to do. Its importatnt for anyone with any type of infection to drink lots of fluids (water works best, but this can be difficult with very young children) to help your body flush out the germs. Keep in mind that not every oozing is a bacterial infection and needs antibiotics. Also, not every swelling or pain in the ear is an ear infection. The ear is connected to the nose/sinus by the eustachion tube; when the nose/sinues become congested, the ear does as well.
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It’s possible it’s only the fluid buildup that’s draining out of his ears – I would call your pediatrician and tell him about it. The reason kids get ear infections is because, during a cold (or allergies), fluid builds up in the inner ear. This fluid can become infected. The antiobiotics clear the infection, but they don’t necessary clear up the fluid. You can go to your follow-up check and get the "all-clear" but the child still has fluid – it’s sterile fluid (noninfected). Fluid can cause hearing loss. My daughter had a 2 dB loss while fluid was in her ears. This loss is NOT permanent, and will improve when the fluid drains. Usually the fluid drains down the eustachian tube – but I have heard of it draining out of the ears. Young kids have small ear canals and eustachian tubes, and often they don’t drain well. When fluid doesn’t drain – it can get reinfected. This is why some docs will recommend tubes – to help drain the fluid. Typically most kids will grow out of ear infections about the time their ears grow large enough to drain the fluid quicker. Most kids do not need tubes. Fluid does eventually drain. Hard to treat ear infections may be a matter of the first round antibiotic just not working on that particular bacteria – and have nothing to do with the fluid. However, if you can document that the fluid stays in the child’s ear without draining for months on end, then tubes are definetly called for. You don’t want anything interfering with speech development. My now-7 year old got ear infections constantly. First-line antiobiotics always treated it, but she’d get reinfected again because the fluid never seemed to drain. I was very anti-tubes and dragged my feet about it forever. The poor kid would get 7 or 8 ear infections per year, including in the summer time. By age 5 it was affecting her speech, and we could document fluid in her ears for months. I was just about to sign the papers for tubes, and her ears cleared up on their own! She still gets the occasional ear infection, and I am very careful to ask the pediatrician at the checkup "does she have fluid?" This is a key question to ask – it’s not enough that the infection be gone – you want the fluid gone, too. jen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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Take him back in. It could be a ruptured ear drum. You don’t say how old he is – if there is anyway possible I think it would help to keep him home and away from other children. Anyway- if i were you I would get it checked out. It could also be a "swimmers ear"- you can get that from the tub- not just swimming. Good luck! J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a first time mom and have little experience with Ear infections. My son has had two since thanksgiving. Now he has another cold and his nose is running fairly often. My husband and I noticed last night after bathing our son that he has some mucus oozing out of his right ear. Today it still oozes but the mucus is thicker. My son does not seem to be too irritable and Saturday morning we got an all clear on the condition of his ears from the pediatrician. So my question is, was the pediatrician off on her diagnosis and do we need to take him back in? In the interim are there things we can do about the oozing? Helping it drain? Any help would be much appreciated. Before you buy.
Before you buy.
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Me again- I found this good article on ear infections- maybe it will help. http://www.pathfinder.com/ParentTime/sears/leafs/ccearin.html J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a first time mom and have little experience with Ear infections. My son has had two since thanksgiving. Now he has another cold and his nose is running fairly often. My husband and I noticed last night after bathing our son that he has some mucus oozing out of his right ear. Today it still oozes but the mucus is thicker. My son does not seem to be too irritable and Saturday morning we got an all clear on the condition of his ears from the pediatrician. So my question is, was the pediatrician off on her diagnosis and do we need to take him back in? In the interim are there things we can do about the oozing? Helping it drain? Any help would be much appreciated. Before you buy.
Before you buy.
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Yep it is definately time to go to the doctor again, and I think too another one may be called for. Don’t muck around or delay with ears as damage can sometimes be done. Annemarie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, my daughter has only had 3 ear infections, the last one lasted 2 months and 3 lots of medicine didn’t help (amoxicillan twice and zithromax once). We had tubes put in and the Dr said there was all kinds of mucous and "stuff". And she had an ear infection at the time. He said it sounded to my daughter either like she was under water or in a plane and couldn’t pop her ears – even though she never acted like it bothered her. Did you or your husband need tubes as a kid? If so you might as well get your son’s done. My husband had them twice. I always had ear infections too as a kid. I’d say take your son in to see a different Dr. Sounds like an ear infection to me. Good luck, Sophie mom to Charlotte (18 months) and Patrick (2 months)
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Wow, my daughter has only had 3 ear infections, the last one lasted 2 months and 3 lots of medicine didn’t help (amoxicillan twice and zithromax once). We had tubes put in and the Dr said there was all kinds of mucous and "stuff". And she had an ear infection at the time. He said it sounded to my daughter either like she was under water or in a plane and couldn’t pop her ears – even though she never acted like it bothered her. Did you or your husband need tubes as a kid? If so you might as well get your son’s done. My husband had them twice. I always had ear infections too as a kid. I’d say take your son in to see a different Dr. Sounds like an ear infection to me. Good luck, Sophie mom to Charlotte (18 months) and Patrick (2 months)
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I’m a first time mom and have little experience with Ear infections. My son has had two since thanksgiving. Now he has another cold and his nose is running fairly often. My husband and I noticed last night after bathing our son that he has some mucus oozing out of his right ear. Today it still oozes but the mucus is thicker. My son does not seem to be too irritable and Saturday morning we got an all clear on the condition of his ears from the pediatrician. So my question is, was the pediatrician off on her diagnosis and do we need to take him back in? In the interim are there things we can do about the oozing? Helping it drain? Any help would be much appreciated. Before you buy.
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If she’s a troll she’s a persistent troll, she emailed me! Or she’s a cop! Steve
Oh my…. That IS a problem. Laura The Original Wicked Witch of the Net, entertaining posters for 5 years;) Make like I’m a Bad Girl and Spank Me. Texas Paralegals do it according to the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure Mother to Melissa (age 7) and A.J. (age 2.5 years)
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Im confused here. Without actually saying it you are insinuating that there is sexual contact between your daughter and her father right?! What makes you jump to that conclusion?
Because she is a troll! They’ll say anything to get everyone incensed. Laura The Original Wicked Witch of the Net, entertaining posters for 5 years;) Make like I’m a Bad Girl and Spank Me. Texas Paralegals do it according to the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure Mother to Melissa (age 7) and A.J. (age 2.5 years)
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Im confused here. Without actually saying it you are insinuating that there is sexual contact between your daughter and her father right?! What makes you jump to that conclusion?
She didn’t. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me Betty
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Im confused here. Without actually saying it you are insinuating that there is sexual contact between your daughter and her father right?! What makes you jump to that conclusion? Because she is a troll! They’ll say anything to get everyone incensed. Laura
If she’s a troll she’s a persistent troll, she emailed me! Or she’s a cop! Steve
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Im confused here. Without actually saying it you are insinuating that there is sexual contact between your daughter and her father right?! What makes you jump to that conclusion?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me Betty
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<<<<You have the cause and effect totally mixed-<up ,here. Children who ARE NOT <LOVED go looking for love and settle for sex for the <closeness and <appreciation. But that’s not the fault of their partners or <the sex, that <is the fault of their parents not loving them! Kids who are <loved don’t <need love so much, they just crave the SEX! Sure, <they’d like to find a <forever lover, or three or four, but it’s not a rushjob! <Steve And, at age 10, who cares if they crave sex?!?!?
And at your age who cares if you want to fucking BREATHE, Bitch!! Jeezus fucking SHIT, you turd! People’s wants are what makes them kill you to get it, twat!! It is not an option — or shouldn’t be!
Of course it SHOULD, it’s a matter of making them happy with their lives instead of distracting them from learning and achievement into taking all their time evading and defeating YOUR BIGOTRY!! YOUR KIND OF BIGOTRY is PRECISELY what ruins kids lives!! So, what you’re saying that it is perfectly fine to teach your children that sex is nothing but a plaything?!?!
Sex IS play! Especially with AIDS running ramped in our society!!
If there was a deadly "playground equipment disease" you’d get your own equipment for home, wouldn’t you, and have their playmates tested and interrogated to prove where they’ve played, wouldn’t you? Or would you be a bigot and pretend one can prevent all play!! Look to what people did who had swimming pools in the 1950’s with polio around!! They allowed only their close family and friends in it, and made them promise to only party with THEM! And, if your child craved heroine, would you give that to them, too?!?!?! Ya know, it’s just for pleasure — it makes you feel good!!!
Kids don’t want heroin unless their PARENTS have made their lives a living hell!! Needles can carry diseases and needn’t be used. Smoke opium with your kids for the same effect once in a while, harmless. What about teaching them that sometimes their urges should not be acted upon?????
Urges are good. Slave societies don’t like them, they affect profit adversely, but FREE societies like urges just fine, thanks! Or, do you feel that if they get mad and have the"urge" to kill someone, they should be allowed to do that, too?!?!
In any person who was not abused, the urge to kill only arises when the object of their urge REALLY DOES deserve to be killed!! It’s natural and needs to be given honor. The practicalities will be observed by any person who was not abused, however, and lesser or public measures will be employed if killing them is not politically practicable!! I pity your children for being raised by someone as obviously sick and demented as you are!
That’s only because you’re stupid and brainwashed! And, I truely hope that they keep their kids away from you, as I am sure you are just waiting for the next generation to get big enough to "play with".
Oh, the obligatory "you’re a perv" crack, how immature, you dumb twat! For your info, I only wanted to have sex with adults WHEN I WAS A KID!! As an adult I have no special interest in children sexually. Steve
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Thank you for your input in my touchy situation A few people in the group have guided me in the direction I think will help. Once again Thanks Betty
You surprise me. I wonder what you have learned, or do you mean that you have been able to select views you held in the first place? — Chucky
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<<<<You have the cause and effect totally mixed-<up ,here. Children who ARE NOT <LOVED go looking for love and settle for sex for the <closeness and <appreciation. But that’s not the fault of their partners or <the sex, that <is the fault of their parents not loving them! Kids who are <loved don’t <need love so much, they just crave the SEX! Sure, <they’d like to find a <forever lover, or three or four, but it’s not a rushjob! <Steve And, at age 10, who cares if they crave sex?!?!?
I do, and I expect you would if you were in that position. It is not an option — or shouldn’t be!
Are you saying that 10-year-olds never crave sex, or that they shouldn’t? So, what you’re saying that it is perfectly fine to teach your children that sex is nothing but a plaything?!?! Especially with AIDS running ramped in our society!! And, if your child craved heroine, would you give that to them, too?!?!?! Ya know, it’s just for pleasure — it makes you feel good!!! What about teaching them that sometimes their urges should not be acted upon????? Or, do you feel that if they get mad and have the"urge" to kill someone, they should be allowed to do that, too?!?!
Adults often crave sex; should no adults ever "act on their urges".? There are far more dangers from sex between adults (pregnancy, STD) than sex between children, or even sex between adults and children. — Chucky
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Betty, Go with your instincts ,,,, a mothers instincts are usually on the mark. Good Luck Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for your input in my touchy situation A few people in the group have guided me in the direction I think will help. Once again Thanks Betty <<<<You have the cause and effect totally mixed-<up ,here. Children who ARE NOT <LOVED go looking for love and settle for sex for the <closeness and <appreciation. But that’s not the fault of their partners or <the sex, that <is the fault of their parents not loving them! Kids who are <loved don’t <need love so much, they just crave the SEX! Sure, <they’d like to find a <forever lover, or three or four, but it’s not a rushjob! <Steve And, at age 10, who cares if they crave sex?!?!? It is not an option — or shouldn’t be! So, what you’re saying that it is perfectly fine to teach your children that sex is nothing but a plaything?!?! Especially with AIDS running ramped in our society!! And, if your child craved heroine, would you give that to them, too?!?!?! Ya know, it’s just for pleasure — it makes you feel good!!! What about teaching them that sometimes their urges should not be acted upon????? Or, do you feel that if they get mad and have the"urge" to kill someone, they should be allowed to do that, too?!?! I pity your children for being raised by someone as obviously sick and demented as you are! And, I truely hope that they keep their kids away from you, as I am sure you are just waiting for the next generation to get big enough to "play with". — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Thank you for your input in my touchy situation A few people in the group have guided me in the direction I think will help. Once again Thanks Betty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<<<You have the cause and effect totally mixed-<up ,here. Children who ARE NOT <LOVED go looking for love and settle for sex for the <closeness and <appreciation. But that’s not the fault of their partners or <the sex, that <is the fault of their parents not loving them! Kids who are <loved don’t <need love so much, they just crave the SEX! Sure, <they’d like to find a <forever lover, or three or four, but it’s not a rushjob! <Steve And, at age 10, who cares if they crave sex?!?!? It is not an option — or shouldn’t be! So, what you’re saying that it is perfectly fine to teach your children that sex is nothing but a plaything?!?! Especially with AIDS running ramped in our society!! And, if your child craved heroine, would you give that to them, too?!?!?! Ya know, it’s just for pleasure — it makes you feel good!!! What about teaching them that sometimes their urges should not be acted upon????? Or, do you feel that if they get mad and have the"urge" to kill someone, they should be allowed to do that, too?!?! I pity your children for being raised by someone as obviously sick and demented as you are! And, I truely hope that they keep their kids away from you, as I am sure you are just waiting for the next generation to get big enough to "play with". — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Betty, What "experimental experiences with family members" are you talking about? What sort of "experimental experiences with family members" would you consider appropriate if she was older than 10? LaVonne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me Betty
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<<<<You have the cause and effect totally mixed-<up ,here. Children who ARE NOT <LOVED go looking for love and settle for sex for the <closeness and <appreciation. But that’s not the fault of their partners or <the sex, that <is the fault of their parents not loving them! Kids who are <loved don’t <need love so much, they just crave the SEX! Sure, <they’d like to find a <forever lover, or three or four, but it’s not a rushjob! <Steve And, at age 10, who cares if they crave sex?!?!? It is not an option — or shouldn’t be! So, what you’re saying that it is perfectly fine to teach your children that sex is nothing but a plaything?!?! Especially with AIDS running ramped in our society!! And, if your child craved heroine, would you give that to them, too?!?!?! Ya know, it’s just for pleasure — it makes you feel good!!! What about teaching them that sometimes their urges should not be acted upon????? Or, do you feel that if they get mad and have the"urge" to kill someone, they should be allowed to do that, too?!?! I pity your children for being raised by someone as obviously sick and demented as you are! And, I truely hope that they keep their kids away from you, as I am sure you are just waiting for the next generation to get big enough to "play with". — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess, I am wondering what "experimental things" you are talking about. Or, with what family members. Not that I need details, but as in cousins, uncles, or DADs?? I am only asking because there are "normal" experimental kid things and then there are sick disgusting adult things…I hope you understand the difference.. That difference is entirely imaginary! Steve You know, I know I said I wouldn’t even bother to respond to you — but you have totally crossed the line on this one!!! If you honestly feel that there is no difference between what kids do experimentally between each other and an adult taking advantage of a child — then you definitely need to be locked away somewhere that you can’t ever be near children again.
Nope, sorry, you don’t GET to. "Taking advantage" is entirely subjective!! As long as the child is treated as if they are entirely in control of the situation and as long as they only get what they want, or like, then the perception of some adult "taking advantage" versus an 17 year-old or a 14 year-old or an 11 year old "taking advantage" is meaningless. She can get pregnant or get a disease from any of the above. Your line is artificial and you can’t even address the weird issues of shame that you were brain- washed with for you to come up with this dark shit involving people of specific numeric ages being somehow different, when they’re not at all! People imagine that "dirty old man" means something, when actually it means as little as whittling your finger at somebody or saying "Cootie" or "Nyah, nyah, ny-nyah, nyah!!" It’s meaningless garbage!! The rest of this crap comes from a society who never sees people of different ages naked except perhaps age 19!! And then not till you’re a teenager! People see anything old as somehow no longer pristine, and since they are shamed about sex anyway, they become fixated on youth and the standard of beauty in Playboy. People who are never asked publically for sex or told their nude body is pretty except by one other person (whom they secretly regard as a total fluke among the opposite sex) all secretly think that they are UGLY for falling below this Playboy perfect 19 year-old standard, and thus they see themselves as even a lousy present to give to someone else, and ESPECIALLY to anyone younger than they are by more than a few years!! The thought of ever burdening some young kid (who might be squicked by the idea of sex anyway just because of their youth) with your UGLY imperfect body makes you feel entirely sexually unworthy and that any overture to someone so young and perfect would surely be regarded as a kind of cultural heresy, a lousy gift for a kid, like an opened half-consumed candybar or something. Now you never actually think a single thing about sharing a candy bar with your kid, but somehow you imagine sex as something waaay too special or even somehow permanent to see as the same thing. When actually sexual acts are just little prresents like rubbing your mom’s feet, no different, or a hug. Nobody worries about not being perfect for a hug! The feeling of sex as something strange and other is altogether artificial!! Anyone who spends time getting used to groupsex situations discovers that the strangeness goes away in mere days, and that you thought it would be so much harder than that, and you’re amazed and surprised at yourself! But you’re also VERY relieved, relieved in a deep way you worried you might never be in your life! Sex is no different than washing someone else’s hair. It’s just about like that, plus an orgasm. The barriers of privacy and bedroom and walls and separate houses has kept us ignorant that we would feel as good with other partners and that the feeling good is mostly just our own reactions anyway, and enjoying another’s response of joy. There is no excuse for ANY adult to EVER touch a child in any sexual manor!!
[sp:manner, not manor] Sure there is. You don’t need any "excuse", it’s not evil! Whatever happened to children being allowed to stay children??
Sex *IS* kidstuff!! It’s the essence of playfulness! It doesn’t make them grow up or anything, except maybe to grow happy and to feel loved and confident that they are sexually attractive and appreciated, and to get that first idiotic nervousness about sex out of their system so they can relax. It’s really quite uncomfortable, in case you’ve forgotten. But of course you have! This child is 10 years old and should in no way be subjected to sexual activity!
My wife had B-cup boobs and pubic hair at ten!! She was going crazy trying to find some object the right shape to slide up her pussy to pop her cherry and get it over with, it just annoyed her constantly till she found a few things, a specific smapoo bottle, a hairbrush handle, etc. She wanted somebody to fuck soo badly she couldn’t stand it. That is an adult area.
Bullshit. If they had no genitals till age 18 I wouldn’t bother, but I know from being horny at age 11 and wanting to fuck everyone I saw, and hearing my wife report the same thing at age ten, that we DESERVED SEX but our society did NOT MEET OUR NEEDS as it SHOULD!! You probably would think differently of the whole thing if your 10 year old daughter came home and said"hey dad, I just had sex with a 30 year old"
Hahahah, you ain’t been here very long, have ya!? My kids are 28 and 25 now. Our daughter was 11 and her b/f was 17, but what the heck. She fucked him in her room and he stayed to supper with us. He was her first, and many more suppers after that, a couple longterm steadies, no pregnancy because they had our support on that account, and she never wanted to go anywhere else to fuck, because it was best and most comfortable at home. Same with our son the year before that when he was 12 and had a 19 year old girlfriend. Not to mention the long-term effects that early exposure to sex has on children. Children that are exposed at such a young age tend to
And praytell what would THAT be? There isn’t any such thing. "Exposure" doesn’t hurt anyone, half the kids in the world WATCH their parents fuck, like ours did! associate love = sex…and often never get to know the real meaning of love. Your post gives permission to pedophiles !! That’s just sick!
You have the cause and effect totally mixed-up here. Children who ARE NOT LOVED go looking for love and settle for sex for the closeness and appreciation. But that’s not the fault of their partners or the sex, that is the fault of their parents not loving them! Kids who are loved don’t need love so much, they just crave the SEX! Sure, they’d like to find a forever lover, or three or four, but it’s not a rushjob! Steve
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I guess, I am wondering what "experimental things" you are talking about. Or, with what family members. Not that I need details, but as in cousins, uncles, or DADs?? I am only asking because there are "normal" experimental kid things and then there are sick disgusting adult things…I hope you understand the difference..
That difference is entirely imaginary! Steve You know, I know I said I wouldn’t even bother to respond to you — but you have totally crossed the line on this one!!! If you honestly feel that there is no difference between what kids do experimentally between each other and an adult taking advantage of a child — then you definitely need to be locked away somewhere that you can’t ever be near children again. There is no excuse for ANY adult to EVER touch a child in any sexual manor!! Whatever happened to children being allowed to stay children?? This child is 10 years old and should in no way be subjected to sexual activity! That is an adult area. You probably would think differently of the whole thing if your 10 year old daughter came home and said"hey dad, I just had sex with a 30 year old" Not to mention the long-term effects that early exposure to sex has on children. Children that are exposed at such a young age tend to associate love = sex…and often never get to know the real meaning of love. Your post gives permission to pedophiles !! That’s just sick! — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me I guess, I am wondering what "experimental things" you are talking about. Or, with what family members. Not that I need details, but as in cousins, uncles, or DADs?? I am only asking because there are "normal" experimental kid things and then there are sick disgusting adult things…I hope you understand the difference..
That difference is entirely imaginary! Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And, could it be possible that you are being a bit over protective? The age and development that your daughter are at, tend to be the beginning of wanting privacy… I guess I would say to go with your instinct….the motherly one…if in your heart you feel there is something going on, then talk to your daughter…bring it up in such a way that it doesn’t appear that you are being negative about her father. Maybe just say to her that you feel left out when she appears to be secretive during her conversations with her dad. Then you won’t be blaming anyone, but you will be getting your feelings across. And, maybe she will open up. You could follow your opening statement with something like — "I feel like there are somethings you think you can’t talk to me about — you can talk to me about anything" I’m kinda quoting councilors and books that I have read — if you use I feel statements, rather than "you make me…" or "you did this" statements, you take any guilt off of her and aren’t accusing dad of anything therefore, she may just be more responsive to you. Hope I helped… Barb — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me Betty
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I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult.
No, actually it isn’t. A girl who is pubescent at age 10 and some months is the age when lots of us try sex out, and are horny enough to try it with anyone who appreciates us. Your job is to make sure she has her experiences precisely the way SHE wants them, and that she not be coerced, forced, blackmailed or shamed about her desires. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me Betty
She may like sex. In any case, tell her she can count on you to help her if she has gotten in too deep about anything with anybody sexually, but that you won’t hate her if she is getting to play the way SHE likes with others. Tell her that having secrets with her dad makes you wonder, because things like that happened to you, and she will be glad to hear it. Tell her that if anybody is trying to take unfair or undesired advantage with blackmail or anything that it doesn’t mean a thing and that you won’t think any less of her no matter what they say, and that you will take her side in all of it totally, and take her side just the way SHE wants done. Tell her you liked your experiences, and maybe tell her a little about them, minus names. She may feel quite relieved and be worried that you would hate her or think she was a slut or whatever the latest hate word is for normal girls lately, or that you might get her partner harmed for her efforts, for which she could carry a lifelong burden of extreme guilt for her ineptness at keeping her secrets. Everybody has the right to the secrets THEY want to keep secret. Tell her that it is easy for you to warn any adult off her if they are imposing, and without going to the police if she needs it that way. Teach her about condoms and birth control. If she has tits at age 10 like my wife did then she was already hairy and horny, and she needs the protection and the knowledge to give her confidence and to feel you support her. Give her a nice vibrator for her birthday in private. Share your girltalk with her, she will feel mature and confident and grateful! Steve
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My thought exactly.
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I would suggest posting this message at misc.kids.moderated. There are some very good people there would have excellent advice. Wyle
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me Betty
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I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me
If it doesn’t bother your daughter why should it bother you? As you say, you did this sort of thing when you were young, so it would be hypocritical of you to object to this. As long as your daughter knows to keep it to herself (or "in the family" hehe). — Chucky
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me Betty Parents, especially mothers, should have a healthy enough relationship with their daughters to discuss any matter in their lives. The only question is how these conversations should be approached and handled. Honesty is the best policy, imho, but the merits of diplomacy and consideration certainly should never be overlooked. When all else fails, seek help from a friend/family member both of you trust if you do not know how best to approach delicate subjects.
it seems like a big jump to go from private conversations with Dad to accusing Dad of child molesting. She is entitled to have a private relationship with Dad that Mom is not intruding in.
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I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me
I guess, I am wondering what "experimental things" you are talking about. Or, with what family members. Not that I need details, but as in cousins, uncles, or DADs?? I am only asking because there are "normal" experimental kid things and then there are sick disgusting adult things…I hope you understand the difference.. And, could it be possible that you are being a bit over protective? The age and development that your daughter are at, tend to be the beginning of wanting privacy… I guess I would say to go with your instinct….the motherly one…if in your heart you feel there is something going on, then talk to your daughter…bring it up in such a way that it doesn’t appear that you are being negative about her father. Maybe just say to her that you feel left out when she appears to be secretive during her conversations with her dad. Then you won’t be blaming anyone, but you will be getting your feelings across. And, maybe she will open up. You could follow your opening statement with something like — "I feel like there are somethings you think you can’t talk to me about — you can talk to me about anything" I’m kinda quoting councilors and books that I have read — if you use I feel statements, rather than "you make me…" or "you did this" statements, you take any guilt off of her and aren’t accusing dad of anything therefore, she may just be more responsive to you. Hope I helped… Barb — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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I’m a single mom with a 10 yo daughter who is a very early developer. Lateley she has grown very close to her father ( every other wkend visits ) and when he calls she is extremly secretive during the conversations. I was raised in an open family and had a few expermental experiences with family members that seems to have left me unharmed so I know these things happen , however 10 is too young to be involved in anything of that nature and certainly not with an adult. I can’t be sure if anything is happening and if I pursue it she may hate me Betty
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Hi Everyone I have a short Story I would like to share, and maybe get some feedback. I am 24 years old. When I was 13, My father was killed. They arrested a man for the murder, but half way through the trial, they dropped the charges due to lack of evdience. Now here’s the weird Twist, My mother was at the trial, met this man, and married him. So, Me and my sisters were living with the man arrested for killing our father. My mom since divorced this Physco, and is happily married and has moved on with her life. I am currently trying to help my sister deal with a lot of built up anger she has regarding what happend, and I was wondering if anyone had any advice. My sister hates talking about it, and I hate forcing the issue but I feel she and I should talk. We live 1500 miles apart, she lives in Missouri, I live in New Hampshire. I just see how angry she is at everyone and everything, and it isn’t healthy. She is 21 years old, has no job, and is living off her boyfriend, thank god for him, he does take care of her, but I feel she has issues. part of me says, leave it be, she’ll be fine and part of me says you can’t "FORCE" her to talk if she isn’t willing. I know that is the case, but I feel so bad for her. Any suggestions on "Breaking" the ice?
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It sounds like you guys went through a tough, disturbing experience, to put things mildly. It is wonderful that you want your sister to be able to move past the whole thing and that you want to reach out to her. The unfortunate thing is that she may not be ready to reach back, or may never respond to your overtures. My first thought is that you appear to have a couple reasons for wanting to open this communication. Check out your post where you say that [your are] "trying to help [my] sister deal with.." Carefully check out your motives here. What *might* [and please understand that I emphasize the word might] first sound to you like legitimately concerned empathy towards how your sister might feel *may* disguise your own needs to resolve some stuff you haven’t yet resolved. Just check that out. If I am way off base – great! If not, then you know what you need to deal with in yourself, too and that’s great, too. Second thought here is that it is often more difficult to help our family members move through emotional trauma than it is friends or acquaintances, and that sometimes we have to leave that to others. Now, that doesn’t mean that you cannot or should not reach out to your sister. It just means that you should be prepared in case she prefers to reach out to someone else or that you simply get her to accept the idea of dealing with stuff and get her hooked up with someone else. The important thing is that she resolves her issues and finds her way to a fulfilling life. So, if you want to reach out to her perhaps you might want to try the tact of bringing up the subject by using yourself and your distress as the beginning point. You might say something along the lines of, "I was really upset about Mom marrying the guy who probably killed Dad and it made it of other ways to let her know the door to talk is open without putting pressure on her. Things like telling her that you are concerned about her and that you’d like to help out and would she like any help from you or anyone else? Remember, though, she *may* think that she is doing just fine right now and does not see things in the light you do. You are geographically far away and she may feel that you only see a little piece of her life and have a very cockeyed view, etc. So, be ready to either let it drop for the time being or simply encourage her to call [collect if need be] if she needs to talk about things. You were right, she has got to be ready, and she may not be ready right now. That’s one of the tough things about caring about someone who is hurting. They may not be ready to deal with the hurt when we are ready to point it out to them. Those are my brief thoughts for now. Good luck. Oh, yes, you might want to check out some local, to her, supports that you could tell her about like crisis hot line phone no’s. And, you might want to look into some sort of support group for yourself in NH. – Aula
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone I have a short Story I would like to share, and maybe get some feedback. I am 24 years old. When I was 13, My father was killed. They arrested a man for the murder, but half way through the trial, they dropped the charges due to lack of evdience. Now here’s the weird Twist, My mother was at the trial, met this man, and married him. So, Me and my sisters were living with the man arrested for killing our father. My mom since divorced this Physco, and is happily married and has moved on with her life. I am currently trying to help my sister deal with a lot of built up anger she has regarding what happend, and I was wondering if anyone had any advice. My sister hates talking about it, and I hate forcing the issue but I feel she and I should talk. We live 1500 miles apart, she lives in Missouri, I live in New Hampshire. I just see how angry she is at everyone and everything, and it isn’t healthy. She is 21 years old, has no job, and is living off her boyfriend, thank god for him, he does take care of her, but I feel she has issues. part of me says, leave it be, she’ll be fine and part of me says you can’t "FORCE" her to talk if she isn’t willing. I know that is the case, but I feel so bad for her. Any suggestions on "Breaking" the ice?
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
Response:
Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
agreed. pd — check out: http://www.pstone.com for "ridiculouslygoodmusic." http://peterduncan.net "my shameless penchant for self promotion."
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Also depends on what the guitar amps are. Get something at least twice the level the guitar amp, more if you can afford it.
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Ok, Thanks for the reliability responses. I guess I need some more basic information. Just started playing Bass, have a gig on Oct. 30th. Our sets will be alternative top 40 and some classic rock. I need to get an amp by then. Most of our gigs will be in small halls or clubs. On the 30th we’ll be in a club with a capacity of 200. What do you think I need for an amp. (One guy tells me 150 watt, 15 inch will be what I need.) Thanks!
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal.
And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. — -rob O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
Hey no problem, I can take em I never went to prom though..I did go to homecoming once with one girl and leave with another…umm..oh yeah…so what color tuning pegs are the best? Adam
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Sorry……I wasn’t speaking in my ‘Voice of God’ tone again…..30 Hz is just so unrecognizable. My ears keep filling it in…. Anyway…. March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet? -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet?
Yup…sold the SR400 that I was debating over whether or not to keep…now there’s a space on the rack Adam
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Dear sir, I dropped out of college….I also have dropped out of bands…I’m seasoned enough to realize that advice based on my experiences will fall on deaf ears, therefore, I refrain….except for this one tidbit…Music, usually, is a hobby….and should be treated as such…. Hawkeye H.I.B. Advocate for Homeless Bassists
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If you’re not ready to make music or the band your whole life, like your drummer is, then don’t. Period. There will be many other opportunities for you down the road if music is really in your blood. If you’ve never placed a big emphasis on being a working musician before, this doesn’t seem like a good time to start. There’s no crime in being the first member of your band to grow up. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’
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if you don’t think those guys have the writing or performing skills then you won’t be missing anything if you quit. don’t screw up your life for a bunch of wannabes.
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Hey Tony..based on what you’ve said here, making the decision as a third party is easy. Leave them. A band is like a marriage. Unless everyone gets along, there’s going to be problems. You’ve already said that you don’t think very highly of your drummer, so you’re never going to play your best with him. Why settle for second best just to stay in a band? Whatever you do though, do it for you, not to spite anyone. If you vanished, they would find another bassist and forget about you. If you do it to spite them, you’re really still trying to be in the band, and your new band will end up the same as this one. Think it over, give it a day or two, and if you still feel this way, quit. Adam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them…..
What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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Anthony, This is a common occurance with bands. They come together and fall apart without anybody ever really communicating what and why they are in the band. As mentioned in a previous post, sit down with them and let them know that their friendship is worth more than anything the band can offer. Before you do that though, sit down with yourself and write down what your goals are as a bass player. What do you want to accomplish for yourself in the next year, two years and five years. Then write down what your goals would be as a band. Again, next year, two years, and five years from now. Take your "Band" goals and share them with your band mates. You can then figure out if it’s time to move on or stick around. The worst thing you can do is to have silent expectations and find yourself sometime down the road with only frustration and resentment. I have an article that I wrote that covers a lot of this at http://www.zone0ne.com/bassics/html/band.htm. Good Luck! Todd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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I know you’ve come to a decision, but I wanted to add just a little more. You say you miss about 25% of the practices. That is an awful lot. I don’t know if that would be tolerated in most bands. Are practices scheduled at a regular time and place? Can they come to you, rather than you going to them? The ability to practice together is certainly one of the most important parts (IMO) to building a cohesive band. It also occurs to me their attitude might be their way of telling you your geographic remoteness is getting in the way of the band unless you take a greater effort to making scheduled rehearsals. (For what it is worth, I live about 45 miles from the closest member of my band. (One of the ‘benefits’ of living in the sticks.) Every week I drive for an hour to get to practice, and then an hour home. This works ok for me, but it might not be an optimal situation in your case.) It strikes me that being in a college town might be a great place for you to find another group of musicians. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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This group gives good advice! I feel better about his problems now! :) jordan
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I wouldn’t worry about it! Just part as good friends, and it will all come around again. You have to get used to change when you play music. In your musical lifetime you will experience a ton of changes i.e. people get married to unapproving spouse’s/pick up unacceptable drug habits etc. Not everybody can be like U2 and stay together 25 years. Finish collage, if you have been playing since you where Five, I have a feeling you will be there in the long run:-) Aloha, Jerry
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys?
Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them.
When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do.
If fun is the #1 consideration and you are not having fun you should quit. Not much else to say is there? — Brian Rost Stargen, Inc.
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If they _are_ friends then you have grounds for sorting it all out. If you can’t sort it out, maybe they’re not the friends you thought they were. Band politics! Sheesh – I had to leave one band because I refused to join the Socialist Workers Party like the others…not that I wasn’t sympathetic…<grin People change, especially around the college years (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not meant to) and maybe you’ve just grown a little faster than your old friends…don’t dump it all after one argument – state your case clearly and without rancor, if you still can’t hash out a mutually satisfactory agreement then shake hands & move on. There are hundreds of musicians at any given college (with the same schedule as yourself) and who knows – you might get together with these guys again when the air has cleared. Good Luck!!! — Graeme White – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.guitar.bass Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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If the band is about fun, and it is not fun anymore, you will probably find your answer there. It sounds as though you might be the most musical of the group, and that you have grown beyond it. You’ll surely be able to hook up with another band, or start one of your own. If the band was about making a living your decision ‘might’ be different. I often think of the line from "That Thing Your Do!" with Del Paxton saying to Guy Patterson, if the band is bound to dissolve, "there ain’t no way to keep a band together." Scott
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. If this is worth the soap opera, figure out a way to work it out. So far nothing you’ve mentioned should upset you IMO, you’re the one who isn’t always there, think about how constricting that can be to work without a bassist. Starting a band to spite the drummer? I can think of lots of reasons to start a band, spite wouldn’t be one of them. Spite will probably cause you to put more time and effort into the next one, causing you to neglect the books, just so you can "show" the drummer you’re the better person. Life’s too short. Think about it. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Maybe you should try a set of Bartolinis. All joking aside, there is nothing wrong with moving on, and preserving the friendships that you have grown. I’ll tell you one thing, changing your musical surroundings will give you a chance to grow in ways you can’t imagine right now. It’s like having deep(no pun int) conversation with new friends. Just be thankful that none of these guys have tried to bring a girlfriend into the band as tambourine as backup. I wish you well with whatever you choose, but choose what’s best for you and put aside your anger and be motivated by your frustrations. Maybe flatwound strings will fix it all. Be well Mike Night Donkey Central
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
Tony, sounds like you and your buddies are moving in different directions. It happens all the time in music and the arts. While attitudes can crop up during the frustration and the realization of this phenomenon, when it’s all said and done, the parties involved move into different directions and later on, realize there are no "good guys" or "bad guys", just different wants, needs and desires. I’m not saying you shouldn’t see if things can be worked out, but I know this; if you aren’t *all* on the same proverbial "page", it *can’t* work (musically). If these are really your friends, then your musical aspirations and inclinations should be secondary to your mutual friendship. Don’t mistake your frustration at where the current situation is gravitating to with certain bandmembers as anger directed at them personally. People do strange things when they come to the realizations you all seem to be coming to at this time. I’m sure you’re drummer is (in his own funny way) trying to "pull" you his direction because he sincerely wants you to jump on board, and *not* because he thinks you’re an asshole. Have a sincere meeting with these guys and don’t hold back from telling them what you want from your bandmates, and encourage them to do the same. While there should be a little bit of give and take from all bandmembers, nobody should have to totally compromise their musical aspirations in a win_win_win_win band situation. It sounds like the guitarist and drummer want to go full-time and you want to stay part-time. What’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you what’s wrong with that – you’ll miss each other personally… you’re "bros". True "bros" will encourage each other to spread their wings though. If that means moving on, so be it. Good luck! END/ Dear Abby Response "*** Wastin’ Away Again In Margarittaville ***"
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I’d say quit the band and finish off College. I’m in the same boat. It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. Ah well, guitarists are a ‘dime a dozen’ NOT bass players. -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
agreed. pd — check out: http://www.pstone.com for "ridiculouslygoodmusic." http://peterduncan.net "my shameless penchant for self promotion."
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Also depends on what the guitar amps are. Get something at least twice the level the guitar amp, more if you can afford it.
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Ok, Thanks for the reliability responses. I guess I need some more basic information. Just started playing Bass, have a gig on Oct. 30th. Our sets will be alternative top 40 and some classic rock. I need to get an amp by then. Most of our gigs will be in small halls or clubs. On the 30th we’ll be in a club with a capacity of 200. What do you think I need for an amp. (One guy tells me 150 watt, 15 inch will be what I need.) Thanks!
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal.
And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. — -rob O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
Hey no problem, I can take em I never went to prom though..I did go to homecoming once with one girl and leave with another…umm..oh yeah…so what color tuning pegs are the best? Adam
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Sorry……I wasn’t speaking in my ‘Voice of God’ tone again…..30 Hz is just so unrecognizable. My ears keep filling it in…. Anyway…. March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet? -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet?
Yup…sold the SR400 that I was debating over whether or not to keep…now there’s a space on the rack Adam
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Dear sir, I dropped out of college….I also have dropped out of bands…I’m seasoned enough to realize that advice based on my experiences will fall on deaf ears, therefore, I refrain….except for this one tidbit…Music, usually, is a hobby….and should be treated as such…. Hawkeye H.I.B. Advocate for Homeless Bassists
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If you’re not ready to make music or the band your whole life, like your drummer is, then don’t. Period. There will be many other opportunities for you down the road if music is really in your blood. If you’ve never placed a big emphasis on being a working musician before, this doesn’t seem like a good time to start. There’s no crime in being the first member of your band to grow up. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’
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if you don’t think those guys have the writing or performing skills then you won’t be missing anything if you quit. don’t screw up your life for a bunch of wannabes.
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Hey Tony..based on what you’ve said here, making the decision as a third party is easy. Leave them. A band is like a marriage. Unless everyone gets along, there’s going to be problems. You’ve already said that you don’t think very highly of your drummer, so you’re never going to play your best with him. Why settle for second best just to stay in a band? Whatever you do though, do it for you, not to spite anyone. If you vanished, they would find another bassist and forget about you. If you do it to spite them, you’re really still trying to be in the band, and your new band will end up the same as this one. Think it over, give it a day or two, and if you still feel this way, quit. Adam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them…..
What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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Anthony, This is a common occurance with bands. They come together and fall apart without anybody ever really communicating what and why they are in the band. As mentioned in a previous post, sit down with them and let them know that their friendship is worth more than anything the band can offer. Before you do that though, sit down with yourself and write down what your goals are as a bass player. What do you want to accomplish for yourself in the next year, two years and five years. Then write down what your goals would be as a band. Again, next year, two years, and five years from now. Take your "Band" goals and share them with your band mates. You can then figure out if it’s time to move on or stick around. The worst thing you can do is to have silent expectations and find yourself sometime down the road with only frustration and resentment. I have an article that I wrote that covers a lot of this at http://www.zone0ne.com/bassics/html/band.htm. Good Luck! Todd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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I know you’ve come to a decision, but I wanted to add just a little more. You say you miss about 25% of the practices. That is an awful lot. I don’t know if that would be tolerated in most bands. Are practices scheduled at a regular time and place? Can they come to you, rather than you going to them? The ability to practice together is certainly one of the most important parts (IMO) to building a cohesive band. It also occurs to me their attitude might be their way of telling you your geographic remoteness is getting in the way of the band unless you take a greater effort to making scheduled rehearsals. (For what it is worth, I live about 45 miles from the closest member of my band. (One of the ‘benefits’ of living in the sticks.) Every week I drive for an hour to get to practice, and then an hour home. This works ok for me, but it might not be an optimal situation in your case.) It strikes me that being in a college town might be a great place for you to find another group of musicians. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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This group gives good advice! I feel better about his problems now! :) jordan
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I wouldn’t worry about it! Just part as good friends, and it will all come around again. You have to get used to change when you play music. In your musical lifetime you will experience a ton of changes i.e. people get married to unapproving spouse’s/pick up unacceptable drug habits etc. Not everybody can be like U2 and stay together 25 years. Finish collage, if you have been playing since you where Five, I have a feeling you will be there in the long run:-) Aloha, Jerry
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys?
Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them.
When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do.
If fun is the #1 consideration and you are not having fun you should quit. Not much else to say is there? — Brian Rost Stargen, Inc.
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If they _are_ friends then you have grounds for sorting it all out. If you can’t sort it out, maybe they’re not the friends you thought they were. Band politics! Sheesh – I had to leave one band because I refused to join the Socialist Workers Party like the others…not that I wasn’t sympathetic…<grin People change, especially around the college years (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not meant to) and maybe you’ve just grown a little faster than your old friends…don’t dump it all after one argument – state your case clearly and without rancor, if you still can’t hash out a mutually satisfactory agreement then shake hands & move on. There are hundreds of musicians at any given college (with the same schedule as yourself) and who knows – you might get together with these guys again when the air has cleared. Good Luck!!! — Graeme White – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.guitar.bass Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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If the band is about fun, and it is not fun anymore, you will probably find your answer there. It sounds as though you might be the most musical of the group, and that you have grown beyond it. You’ll surely be able to hook up with another band, or start one of your own. If the band was about making a living your decision ‘might’ be different. I often think of the line from "That Thing Your Do!" with Del Paxton saying to Guy Patterson, if the band is bound to dissolve, "there ain’t no way to keep a band together." Scott
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. If this is worth the soap opera, figure out a way to work it out. So far nothing you’ve mentioned should upset you IMO, you’re the one who isn’t always there, think about how constricting that can be to work without a bassist. Starting a band to spite the drummer? I can think of lots of reasons to start a band, spite wouldn’t be one of them. Spite will probably cause you to put more time and effort into the next one, causing you to neglect the books, just so you can "show" the drummer you’re the better person. Life’s too short. Think about it. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Maybe you should try a set of Bartolinis. All joking aside, there is nothing wrong with moving on, and preserving the friendships that you have grown. I’ll tell you one thing, changing your musical surroundings will give you a chance to grow in ways you can’t imagine right now. It’s like having deep(no pun int) conversation with new friends. Just be thankful that none of these guys have tried to bring a girlfriend into the band as tambourine as backup. I wish you well with whatever you choose, but choose what’s best for you and put aside your anger and be motivated by your frustrations. Maybe flatwound strings will fix it all. Be well Mike Night Donkey Central
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
Tony, sounds like you and your buddies are moving in different directions. It happens all the time in music and the arts. While attitudes can crop up during the frustration and the realization of this phenomenon, when it’s all said and done, the parties involved move into different directions and later on, realize there are no "good guys" or "bad guys", just different wants, needs and desires. I’m not saying you shouldn’t see if things can be worked out, but I know this; if you aren’t *all* on the same proverbial "page", it *can’t* work (musically). If these are really your friends, then your musical aspirations and inclinations should be secondary to your mutual friendship. Don’t mistake your frustration at where the current situation is gravitating to with certain bandmembers as anger directed at them personally. People do strange things when they come to the realizations you all seem to be coming to at this time. I’m sure you’re drummer is (in his own funny way) trying to "pull" you his direction because he sincerely wants you to jump on board, and *not* because he thinks you’re an asshole. Have a sincere meeting with these guys and don’t hold back from telling them what you want from your bandmates, and encourage them to do the same. While there should be a little bit of give and take from all bandmembers, nobody should have to totally compromise their musical aspirations in a win_win_win_win band situation. It sounds like the guitarist and drummer want to go full-time and you want to stay part-time. What’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you what’s wrong with that – you’ll miss each other personally… you’re "bros". True "bros" will encourage each other to spread their wings though. If that means moving on, so be it. Good luck! END/ Dear Abby Response "*** Wastin’ Away Again In Margarittaville ***"
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I’d say quit the band and finish off College. I’m in the same boat. It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. Ah well, guitarists are a ‘dime a dozen’ NOT bass players. -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
agreed. pd — check out: http://www.pstone.com for "ridiculouslygoodmusic." http://peterduncan.net "my shameless penchant for self promotion."
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Also depends on what the guitar amps are. Get something at least twice the level the guitar amp, more if you can afford it.
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Ok, Thanks for the reliability responses. I guess I need some more basic information. Just started playing Bass, have a gig on Oct. 30th. Our sets will be alternative top 40 and some classic rock. I need to get an amp by then. Most of our gigs will be in small halls or clubs. On the 30th we’ll be in a club with a capacity of 200. What do you think I need for an amp. (One guy tells me 150 watt, 15 inch will be what I need.) Thanks!
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal.
And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. — -rob O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
Hey no problem, I can take em I never went to prom though..I did go to homecoming once with one girl and leave with another…umm..oh yeah…so what color tuning pegs are the best? Adam
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Sorry……I wasn’t speaking in my ‘Voice of God’ tone again…..30 Hz is just so unrecognizable. My ears keep filling it in…. Anyway…. March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet? -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet?
Yup…sold the SR400 that I was debating over whether or not to keep…now there’s a space on the rack Adam
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Dear sir, I dropped out of college….I also have dropped out of bands…I’m seasoned enough to realize that advice based on my experiences will fall on deaf ears, therefore, I refrain….except for this one tidbit…Music, usually, is a hobby….and should be treated as such…. Hawkeye H.I.B. Advocate for Homeless Bassists
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If you’re not ready to make music or the band your whole life, like your drummer is, then don’t. Period. There will be many other opportunities for you down the road if music is really in your blood. If you’ve never placed a big emphasis on being a working musician before, this doesn’t seem like a good time to start. There’s no crime in being the first member of your band to grow up. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’
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if you don’t think those guys have the writing or performing skills then you won’t be missing anything if you quit. don’t screw up your life for a bunch of wannabes.
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Hey Tony..based on what you’ve said here, making the decision as a third party is easy. Leave them. A band is like a marriage. Unless everyone gets along, there’s going to be problems. You’ve already said that you don’t think very highly of your drummer, so you’re never going to play your best with him. Why settle for second best just to stay in a band? Whatever you do though, do it for you, not to spite anyone. If you vanished, they would find another bassist and forget about you. If you do it to spite them, you’re really still trying to be in the band, and your new band will end up the same as this one. Think it over, give it a day or two, and if you still feel this way, quit. Adam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them…..
What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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Anthony, This is a common occurance with bands. They come together and fall apart without anybody ever really communicating what and why they are in the band. As mentioned in a previous post, sit down with them and let them know that their friendship is worth more than anything the band can offer. Before you do that though, sit down with yourself and write down what your goals are as a bass player. What do you want to accomplish for yourself in the next year, two years and five years. Then write down what your goals would be as a band. Again, next year, two years, and five years from now. Take your "Band" goals and share them with your band mates. You can then figure out if it’s time to move on or stick around. The worst thing you can do is to have silent expectations and find yourself sometime down the road with only frustration and resentment. I have an article that I wrote that covers a lot of this at http://www.zone0ne.com/bassics/html/band.htm. Good Luck! Todd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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I know you’ve come to a decision, but I wanted to add just a little more. You say you miss about 25% of the practices. That is an awful lot. I don’t know if that would be tolerated in most bands. Are practices scheduled at a regular time and place? Can they come to you, rather than you going to them? The ability to practice together is certainly one of the most important parts (IMO) to building a cohesive band. It also occurs to me their attitude might be their way of telling you your geographic remoteness is getting in the way of the band unless you take a greater effort to making scheduled rehearsals. (For what it is worth, I live about 45 miles from the closest member of my band. (One of the ‘benefits’ of living in the sticks.) Every week I drive for an hour to get to practice, and then an hour home. This works ok for me, but it might not be an optimal situation in your case.) It strikes me that being in a college town might be a great place for you to find another group of musicians. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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This group gives good advice! I feel better about his problems now! :) jordan
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I wouldn’t worry about it! Just part as good friends, and it will all come around again. You have to get used to change when you play music. In your musical lifetime you will experience a ton of changes i.e. people get married to unapproving spouse’s/pick up unacceptable drug habits etc. Not everybody can be like U2 and stay together 25 years. Finish collage, if you have been playing since you where Five, I have a feeling you will be there in the long run:-) Aloha, Jerry
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys?
Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them.
When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do.
If fun is the #1 consideration and you are not having fun you should quit. Not much else to say is there? — Brian Rost Stargen, Inc.
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If they _are_ friends then you have grounds for sorting it all out. If you can’t sort it out, maybe they’re not the friends you thought they were. Band politics! Sheesh – I had to leave one band because I refused to join the Socialist Workers Party like the others…not that I wasn’t sympathetic…<grin People change, especially around the college years (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not meant to) and maybe you’ve just grown a little faster than your old friends…don’t dump it all after one argument – state your case clearly and without rancor, if you still can’t hash out a mutually satisfactory agreement then shake hands & move on. There are hundreds of musicians at any given college (with the same schedule as yourself) and who knows – you might get together with these guys again when the air has cleared. Good Luck!!! — Graeme White – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.guitar.bass Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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If the band is about fun, and it is not fun anymore, you will probably find your answer there. It sounds as though you might be the most musical of the group, and that you have grown beyond it. You’ll surely be able to hook up with another band, or start one of your own. If the band was about making a living your decision ‘might’ be different. I often think of the line from "That Thing Your Do!" with Del Paxton saying to Guy Patterson, if the band is bound to dissolve, "there ain’t no way to keep a band together." Scott
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. If this is worth the soap opera, figure out a way to work it out. So far nothing you’ve mentioned should upset you IMO, you’re the one who isn’t always there, think about how constricting that can be to work without a bassist. Starting a band to spite the drummer? I can think of lots of reasons to start a band, spite wouldn’t be one of them. Spite will probably cause you to put more time and effort into the next one, causing you to neglect the books, just so you can "show" the drummer you’re the better person. Life’s too short. Think about it. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Maybe you should try a set of Bartolinis. All joking aside, there is nothing wrong with moving on, and preserving the friendships that you have grown. I’ll tell you one thing, changing your musical surroundings will give you a chance to grow in ways you can’t imagine right now. It’s like having deep(no pun int) conversation with new friends. Just be thankful that none of these guys have tried to bring a girlfriend into the band as tambourine as backup. I wish you well with whatever you choose, but choose what’s best for you and put aside your anger and be motivated by your frustrations. Maybe flatwound strings will fix it all. Be well Mike Night Donkey Central
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
Tony, sounds like you and your buddies are moving in different directions. It happens all the time in music and the arts. While attitudes can crop up during the frustration and the realization of this phenomenon, when it’s all said and done, the parties involved move into different directions and later on, realize there are no "good guys" or "bad guys", just different wants, needs and desires. I’m not saying you shouldn’t see if things can be worked out, but I know this; if you aren’t *all* on the same proverbial "page", it *can’t* work (musically). If these are really your friends, then your musical aspirations and inclinations should be secondary to your mutual friendship. Don’t mistake your frustration at where the current situation is gravitating to with certain bandmembers as anger directed at them personally. People do strange things when they come to the realizations you all seem to be coming to at this time. I’m sure you’re drummer is (in his own funny way) trying to "pull" you his direction because he sincerely wants you to jump on board, and *not* because he thinks you’re an asshole. Have a sincere meeting with these guys and don’t hold back from telling them what you want from your bandmates, and encourage them to do the same. While there should be a little bit of give and take from all bandmembers, nobody should have to totally compromise their musical aspirations in a win_win_win_win band situation. It sounds like the guitarist and drummer want to go full-time and you want to stay part-time. What’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you what’s wrong with that – you’ll miss each other personally… you’re "bros". True "bros" will encourage each other to spread their wings though. If that means moving on, so be it. Good luck! END/ Dear Abby Response "*** Wastin’ Away Again In Margarittaville ***"
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I’d say quit the band and finish off College. I’m in the same boat. It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. Ah well, guitarists are a ‘dime a dozen’ NOT bass players. -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
agreed. pd — check out: http://www.pstone.com for "ridiculouslygoodmusic." http://peterduncan.net "my shameless penchant for self promotion."
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Also depends on what the guitar amps are. Get something at least twice the level the guitar amp, more if you can afford it.
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Ok, Thanks for the reliability responses. I guess I need some more basic information. Just started playing Bass, have a gig on Oct. 30th. Our sets will be alternative top 40 and some classic rock. I need to get an amp by then. Most of our gigs will be in small halls or clubs. On the 30th we’ll be in a club with a capacity of 200. What do you think I need for an amp. (One guy tells me 150 watt, 15 inch will be what I need.) Thanks!
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal.
And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. — -rob O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
Hey no problem, I can take em I never went to prom though..I did go to homecoming once with one girl and leave with another…umm..oh yeah…so what color tuning pegs are the best? Adam
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Sorry……I wasn’t speaking in my ‘Voice of God’ tone again…..30 Hz is just so unrecognizable. My ears keep filling it in…. Anyway…. March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet? -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet?
Yup…sold the SR400 that I was debating over whether or not to keep…now there’s a space on the rack Adam
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Dear sir, I dropped out of college….I also have dropped out of bands…I’m seasoned enough to realize that advice based on my experiences will fall on deaf ears, therefore, I refrain….except for this one tidbit…Music, usually, is a hobby….and should be treated as such…. Hawkeye H.I.B. Advocate for Homeless Bassists
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If you’re not ready to make music or the band your whole life, like your drummer is, then don’t. Period. There will be many other opportunities for you down the road if music is really in your blood. If you’ve never placed a big emphasis on being a working musician before, this doesn’t seem like a good time to start. There’s no crime in being the first member of your band to grow up. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’
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if you don’t think those guys have the writing or performing skills then you won’t be missing anything if you quit. don’t screw up your life for a bunch of wannabes.
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Hey Tony..based on what you’ve said here, making the decision as a third party is easy. Leave them. A band is like a marriage. Unless everyone gets along, there’s going to be problems. You’ve already said that you don’t think very highly of your drummer, so you’re never going to play your best with him. Why settle for second best just to stay in a band? Whatever you do though, do it for you, not to spite anyone. If you vanished, they would find another bassist and forget about you. If you do it to spite them, you’re really still trying to be in the band, and your new band will end up the same as this one. Think it over, give it a day or two, and if you still feel this way, quit. Adam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them…..
What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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Anthony, This is a common occurance with bands. They come together and fall apart without anybody ever really communicating what and why they are in the band. As mentioned in a previous post, sit down with them and let them know that their friendship is worth more than anything the band can offer. Before you do that though, sit down with yourself and write down what your goals are as a bass player. What do you want to accomplish for yourself in the next year, two years and five years. Then write down what your goals would be as a band. Again, next year, two years, and five years from now. Take your "Band" goals and share them with your band mates. You can then figure out if it’s time to move on or stick around. The worst thing you can do is to have silent expectations and find yourself sometime down the road with only frustration and resentment. I have an article that I wrote that covers a lot of this at http://www.zone0ne.com/bassics/html/band.htm. Good Luck! Todd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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I know you’ve come to a decision, but I wanted to add just a little more. You say you miss about 25% of the practices. That is an awful lot. I don’t know if that would be tolerated in most bands. Are practices scheduled at a regular time and place? Can they come to you, rather than you going to them? The ability to practice together is certainly one of the most important parts (IMO) to building a cohesive band. It also occurs to me their attitude might be their way of telling you your geographic remoteness is getting in the way of the band unless you take a greater effort to making scheduled rehearsals. (For what it is worth, I live about 45 miles from the closest member of my band. (One of the ‘benefits’ of living in the sticks.) Every week I drive for an hour to get to practice, and then an hour home. This works ok for me, but it might not be an optimal situation in your case.) It strikes me that being in a college town might be a great place for you to find another group of musicians. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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This group gives good advice! I feel better about his problems now! :) jordan
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I wouldn’t worry about it! Just part as good friends, and it will all come around again. You have to get used to change when you play music. In your musical lifetime you will experience a ton of changes i.e. people get married to unapproving spouse’s/pick up unacceptable drug habits etc. Not everybody can be like U2 and stay together 25 years. Finish collage, if you have been playing since you where Five, I have a feeling you will be there in the long run:-) Aloha, Jerry
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys?
Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them.
When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do.
If fun is the #1 consideration and you are not having fun you should quit. Not much else to say is there? — Brian Rost Stargen, Inc.
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If they _are_ friends then you have grounds for sorting it all out. If you can’t sort it out, maybe they’re not the friends you thought they were. Band politics! Sheesh – I had to leave one band because I refused to join the Socialist Workers Party like the others…not that I wasn’t sympathetic…<grin People change, especially around the college years (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not meant to) and maybe you’ve just grown a little faster than your old friends…don’t dump it all after one argument – state your case clearly and without rancor, if you still can’t hash out a mutually satisfactory agreement then shake hands & move on. There are hundreds of musicians at any given college (with the same schedule as yourself) and who knows – you might get together with these guys again when the air has cleared. Good Luck!!! — Graeme White – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.guitar.bass Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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If the band is about fun, and it is not fun anymore, you will probably find your answer there. It sounds as though you might be the most musical of the group, and that you have grown beyond it. You’ll surely be able to hook up with another band, or start one of your own. If the band was about making a living your decision ‘might’ be different. I often think of the line from "That Thing Your Do!" with Del Paxton saying to Guy Patterson, if the band is bound to dissolve, "there ain’t no way to keep a band together." Scott
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. If this is worth the soap opera, figure out a way to work it out. So far nothing you’ve mentioned should upset you IMO, you’re the one who isn’t always there, think about how constricting that can be to work without a bassist. Starting a band to spite the drummer? I can think of lots of reasons to start a band, spite wouldn’t be one of them. Spite will probably cause you to put more time and effort into the next one, causing you to neglect the books, just so you can "show" the drummer you’re the better person. Life’s too short. Think about it. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Maybe you should try a set of Bartolinis. All joking aside, there is nothing wrong with moving on, and preserving the friendships that you have grown. I’ll tell you one thing, changing your musical surroundings will give you a chance to grow in ways you can’t imagine right now. It’s like having deep(no pun int) conversation with new friends. Just be thankful that none of these guys have tried to bring a girlfriend into the band as tambourine as backup. I wish you well with whatever you choose, but choose what’s best for you and put aside your anger and be motivated by your frustrations. Maybe flatwound strings will fix it all. Be well Mike Night Donkey Central
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
Tony, sounds like you and your buddies are moving in different directions. It happens all the time in music and the arts. While attitudes can crop up during the frustration and the realization of this phenomenon, when it’s all said and done, the parties involved move into different directions and later on, realize there are no "good guys" or "bad guys", just different wants, needs and desires. I’m not saying you shouldn’t see if things can be worked out, but I know this; if you aren’t *all* on the same proverbial "page", it *can’t* work (musically). If these are really your friends, then your musical aspirations and inclinations should be secondary to your mutual friendship. Don’t mistake your frustration at where the current situation is gravitating to with certain bandmembers as anger directed at them personally. People do strange things when they come to the realizations you all seem to be coming to at this time. I’m sure you’re drummer is (in his own funny way) trying to "pull" you his direction because he sincerely wants you to jump on board, and *not* because he thinks you’re an asshole. Have a sincere meeting with these guys and don’t hold back from telling them what you want from your bandmates, and encourage them to do the same. While there should be a little bit of give and take from all bandmembers, nobody should have to totally compromise their musical aspirations in a win_win_win_win band situation. It sounds like the guitarist and drummer want to go full-time and you want to stay part-time. What’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you what’s wrong with that – you’ll miss each other personally… you’re "bros". True "bros" will encourage each other to spread their wings though. If that means moving on, so be it. Good luck! END/ Dear Abby Response "*** Wastin’ Away Again In Margarittaville ***"
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I’d say quit the band and finish off College. I’m in the same boat. It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. Ah well, guitarists are a ‘dime a dozen’ NOT bass players. -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
agreed. pd — check out: http://www.pstone.com for "ridiculouslygoodmusic." http://peterduncan.net "my shameless penchant for self promotion."
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Also depends on what the guitar amps are. Get something at least twice the level the guitar amp, more if you can afford it.
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Ok, Thanks for the reliability responses. I guess I need some more basic information. Just started playing Bass, have a gig on Oct. 30th. Our sets will be alternative top 40 and some classic rock. I need to get an amp by then. Most of our gigs will be in small halls or clubs. On the 30th we’ll be in a club with a capacity of 200. What do you think I need for an amp. (One guy tells me 150 watt, 15 inch will be what I need.) Thanks!
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal.
And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. — -rob O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
Hey no problem, I can take em I never went to prom though..I did go to homecoming once with one girl and leave with another…umm..oh yeah…so what color tuning pegs are the best? Adam
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Sorry……I wasn’t speaking in my ‘Voice of God’ tone again…..30 Hz is just so unrecognizable. My ears keep filling it in…. Anyway…. March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet? -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet?
Yup…sold the SR400 that I was debating over whether or not to keep…now there’s a space on the rack Adam
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Dear sir, I dropped out of college….I also have dropped out of bands…I’m seasoned enough to realize that advice based on my experiences will fall on deaf ears, therefore, I refrain….except for this one tidbit…Music, usually, is a hobby….and should be treated as such…. Hawkeye H.I.B. Advocate for Homeless Bassists
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If you’re not ready to make music or the band your whole life, like your drummer is, then don’t. Period. There will be many other opportunities for you down the road if music is really in your blood. If you’ve never placed a big emphasis on being a working musician before, this doesn’t seem like a good time to start. There’s no crime in being the first member of your band to grow up. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’
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if you don’t think those guys have the writing or performing skills then you won’t be missing anything if you quit. don’t screw up your life for a bunch of wannabes.
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Hey Tony..based on what you’ve said here, making the decision as a third party is easy. Leave them. A band is like a marriage. Unless everyone gets along, there’s going to be problems. You’ve already said that you don’t think very highly of your drummer, so you’re never going to play your best with him. Why settle for second best just to stay in a band? Whatever you do though, do it for you, not to spite anyone. If you vanished, they would find another bassist and forget about you. If you do it to spite them, you’re really still trying to be in the band, and your new band will end up the same as this one. Think it over, give it a day or two, and if you still feel this way, quit. Adam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them…..
What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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Anthony, This is a common occurance with bands. They come together and fall apart without anybody ever really communicating what and why they are in the band. As mentioned in a previous post, sit down with them and let them know that their friendship is worth more than anything the band can offer. Before you do that though, sit down with yourself and write down what your goals are as a bass player. What do you want to accomplish for yourself in the next year, two years and five years. Then write down what your goals would be as a band. Again, next year, two years, and five years from now. Take your "Band" goals and share them with your band mates. You can then figure out if it’s time to move on or stick around. The worst thing you can do is to have silent expectations and find yourself sometime down the road with only frustration and resentment. I have an article that I wrote that covers a lot of this at http://www.zone0ne.com/bassics/html/band.htm. Good Luck! Todd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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I know you’ve come to a decision, but I wanted to add just a little more. You say you miss about 25% of the practices. That is an awful lot. I don’t know if that would be tolerated in most bands. Are practices scheduled at a regular time and place? Can they come to you, rather than you going to them? The ability to practice together is certainly one of the most important parts (IMO) to building a cohesive band. It also occurs to me their attitude might be their way of telling you your geographic remoteness is getting in the way of the band unless you take a greater effort to making scheduled rehearsals. (For what it is worth, I live about 45 miles from the closest member of my band. (One of the ‘benefits’ of living in the sticks.) Every week I drive for an hour to get to practice, and then an hour home. This works ok for me, but it might not be an optimal situation in your case.) It strikes me that being in a college town might be a great place for you to find another group of musicians. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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This group gives good advice! I feel better about his problems now! :) jordan
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I wouldn’t worry about it! Just part as good friends, and it will all come around again. You have to get used to change when you play music. In your musical lifetime you will experience a ton of changes i.e. people get married to unapproving spouse’s/pick up unacceptable drug habits etc. Not everybody can be like U2 and stay together 25 years. Finish collage, if you have been playing since you where Five, I have a feeling you will be there in the long run:-) Aloha, Jerry
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys?
Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them.
When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do.
If fun is the #1 consideration and you are not having fun you should quit. Not much else to say is there? — Brian Rost Stargen, Inc.
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If they _are_ friends then you have grounds for sorting it all out. If you can’t sort it out, maybe they’re not the friends you thought they were. Band politics! Sheesh – I had to leave one band because I refused to join the Socialist Workers Party like the others…not that I wasn’t sympathetic…<grin People change, especially around the college years (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not meant to) and maybe you’ve just grown a little faster than your old friends…don’t dump it all after one argument – state your case clearly and without rancor, if you still can’t hash out a mutually satisfactory agreement then shake hands & move on. There are hundreds of musicians at any given college (with the same schedule as yourself) and who knows – you might get together with these guys again when the air has cleared. Good Luck!!! — Graeme White – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.guitar.bass Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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If the band is about fun, and it is not fun anymore, you will probably find your answer there. It sounds as though you might be the most musical of the group, and that you have grown beyond it. You’ll surely be able to hook up with another band, or start one of your own. If the band was about making a living your decision ‘might’ be different. I often think of the line from "That Thing Your Do!" with Del Paxton saying to Guy Patterson, if the band is bound to dissolve, "there ain’t no way to keep a band together." Scott
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. If this is worth the soap opera, figure out a way to work it out. So far nothing you’ve mentioned should upset you IMO, you’re the one who isn’t always there, think about how constricting that can be to work without a bassist. Starting a band to spite the drummer? I can think of lots of reasons to start a band, spite wouldn’t be one of them. Spite will probably cause you to put more time and effort into the next one, causing you to neglect the books, just so you can "show" the drummer you’re the better person. Life’s too short. Think about it. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Maybe you should try a set of Bartolinis. All joking aside, there is nothing wrong with moving on, and preserving the friendships that you have grown. I’ll tell you one thing, changing your musical surroundings will give you a chance to grow in ways you can’t imagine right now. It’s like having deep(no pun int) conversation with new friends. Just be thankful that none of these guys have tried to bring a girlfriend into the band as tambourine as backup. I wish you well with whatever you choose, but choose what’s best for you and put aside your anger and be motivated by your frustrations. Maybe flatwound strings will fix it all. Be well Mike Night Donkey Central
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
Tony, sounds like you and your buddies are moving in different directions. It happens all the time in music and the arts. While attitudes can crop up during the frustration and the realization of this phenomenon, when it’s all said and done, the parties involved move into different directions and later on, realize there are no "good guys" or "bad guys", just different wants, needs and desires. I’m not saying you shouldn’t see if things can be worked out, but I know this; if you aren’t *all* on the same proverbial "page", it *can’t* work (musically). If these are really your friends, then your musical aspirations and inclinations should be secondary to your mutual friendship. Don’t mistake your frustration at where the current situation is gravitating to with certain bandmembers as anger directed at them personally. People do strange things when they come to the realizations you all seem to be coming to at this time. I’m sure you’re drummer is (in his own funny way) trying to "pull" you his direction because he sincerely wants you to jump on board, and *not* because he thinks you’re an asshole. Have a sincere meeting with these guys and don’t hold back from telling them what you want from your bandmates, and encourage them to do the same. While there should be a little bit of give and take from all bandmembers, nobody should have to totally compromise their musical aspirations in a win_win_win_win band situation. It sounds like the guitarist and drummer want to go full-time and you want to stay part-time. What’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you what’s wrong with that – you’ll miss each other personally… you’re "bros". True "bros" will encourage each other to spread their wings though. If that means moving on, so be it. Good luck! END/ Dear Abby Response "*** Wastin’ Away Again In Margarittaville ***"
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I’d say quit the band and finish off College. I’m in the same boat. It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. Ah well, guitarists are a ‘dime a dozen’ NOT bass players. -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
agreed. pd — check out: http://www.pstone.com for "ridiculouslygoodmusic." http://peterduncan.net "my shameless penchant for self promotion."
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Also depends on what the guitar amps are. Get something at least twice the level the guitar amp, more if you can afford it.
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Ok, Thanks for the reliability responses. I guess I need some more basic information. Just started playing Bass, have a gig on Oct. 30th. Our sets will be alternative top 40 and some classic rock. I need to get an amp by then. Most of our gigs will be in small halls or clubs. On the 30th we’ll be in a club with a capacity of 200. What do you think I need for an amp. (One guy tells me 150 watt, 15 inch will be what I need.) Thanks!
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal.
And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. — -rob O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
Hey no problem, I can take em I never went to prom though..I did go to homecoming once with one girl and leave with another…umm..oh yeah…so what color tuning pegs are the best? Adam
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Sorry……I wasn’t speaking in my ‘Voice of God’ tone again…..30 Hz is just so unrecognizable. My ears keep filling it in…. Anyway…. March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet? -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet?
Yup…sold the SR400 that I was debating over whether or not to keep…now there’s a space on the rack Adam
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Dear sir, I dropped out of college….I also have dropped out of bands…I’m seasoned enough to realize that advice based on my experiences will fall on deaf ears, therefore, I refrain….except for this one tidbit…Music, usually, is a hobby….and should be treated as such…. Hawkeye H.I.B. Advocate for Homeless Bassists
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If you’re not ready to make music or the band your whole life, like your drummer is, then don’t. Period. There will be many other opportunities for you down the road if music is really in your blood. If you’ve never placed a big emphasis on being a working musician before, this doesn’t seem like a good time to start. There’s no crime in being the first member of your band to grow up. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’
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if you don’t think those guys have the writing or performing skills then you won’t be missing anything if you quit. don’t screw up your life for a bunch of wannabes.
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Hey Tony..based on what you’ve said here, making the decision as a third party is easy. Leave them. A band is like a marriage. Unless everyone gets along, there’s going to be problems. You’ve already said that you don’t think very highly of your drummer, so you’re never going to play your best with him. Why settle for second best just to stay in a band? Whatever you do though, do it for you, not to spite anyone. If you vanished, they would find another bassist and forget about you. If you do it to spite them, you’re really still trying to be in the band, and your new band will end up the same as this one. Think it over, give it a day or two, and if you still feel this way, quit. Adam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them…..
What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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Anthony, This is a common occurance with bands. They come together and fall apart without anybody ever really communicating what and why they are in the band. As mentioned in a previous post, sit down with them and let them know that their friendship is worth more than anything the band can offer. Before you do that though, sit down with yourself and write down what your goals are as a bass player. What do you want to accomplish for yourself in the next year, two years and five years. Then write down what your goals would be as a band. Again, next year, two years, and five years from now. Take your "Band" goals and share them with your band mates. You can then figure out if it’s time to move on or stick around. The worst thing you can do is to have silent expectations and find yourself sometime down the road with only frustration and resentment. I have an article that I wrote that covers a lot of this at http://www.zone0ne.com/bassics/html/band.htm. Good Luck! Todd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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I know you’ve come to a decision, but I wanted to add just a little more. You say you miss about 25% of the practices. That is an awful lot. I don’t know if that would be tolerated in most bands. Are practices scheduled at a regular time and place? Can they come to you, rather than you going to them? The ability to practice together is certainly one of the most important parts (IMO) to building a cohesive band. It also occurs to me their attitude might be their way of telling you your geographic remoteness is getting in the way of the band unless you take a greater effort to making scheduled rehearsals. (For what it is worth, I live about 45 miles from the closest member of my band. (One of the ‘benefits’ of living in the sticks.) Every week I drive for an hour to get to practice, and then an hour home. This works ok for me, but it might not be an optimal situation in your case.) It strikes me that being in a college town might be a great place for you to find another group of musicians. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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This group gives good advice! I feel better about his problems now! :) jordan
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I wouldn’t worry about it! Just part as good friends, and it will all come around again. You have to get used to change when you play music. In your musical lifetime you will experience a ton of changes i.e. people get married to unapproving spouse’s/pick up unacceptable drug habits etc. Not everybody can be like U2 and stay together 25 years. Finish collage, if you have been playing since you where Five, I have a feeling you will be there in the long run:-) Aloha, Jerry
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys?
Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them.
When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do.
If fun is the #1 consideration and you are not having fun you should quit. Not much else to say is there? — Brian Rost Stargen, Inc.
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If they _are_ friends then you have grounds for sorting it all out. If you can’t sort it out, maybe they’re not the friends you thought they were. Band politics! Sheesh – I had to leave one band because I refused to join the Socialist Workers Party like the others…not that I wasn’t sympathetic…<grin People change, especially around the college years (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not meant to) and maybe you’ve just grown a little faster than your old friends…don’t dump it all after one argument – state your case clearly and without rancor, if you still can’t hash out a mutually satisfactory agreement then shake hands & move on. There are hundreds of musicians at any given college (with the same schedule as yourself) and who knows – you might get together with these guys again when the air has cleared. Good Luck!!! — Graeme White – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.guitar.bass Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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If the band is about fun, and it is not fun anymore, you will probably find your answer there. It sounds as though you might be the most musical of the group, and that you have grown beyond it. You’ll surely be able to hook up with another band, or start one of your own. If the band was about making a living your decision ‘might’ be different. I often think of the line from "That Thing Your Do!" with Del Paxton saying to Guy Patterson, if the band is bound to dissolve, "there ain’t no way to keep a band together." Scott
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. If this is worth the soap opera, figure out a way to work it out. So far nothing you’ve mentioned should upset you IMO, you’re the one who isn’t always there, think about how constricting that can be to work without a bassist. Starting a band to spite the drummer? I can think of lots of reasons to start a band, spite wouldn’t be one of them. Spite will probably cause you to put more time and effort into the next one, causing you to neglect the books, just so you can "show" the drummer you’re the better person. Life’s too short. Think about it. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Maybe you should try a set of Bartolinis. All joking aside, there is nothing wrong with moving on, and preserving the friendships that you have grown. I’ll tell you one thing, changing your musical surroundings will give you a chance to grow in ways you can’t imagine right now. It’s like having deep(no pun int) conversation with new friends. Just be thankful that none of these guys have tried to bring a girlfriend into the band as tambourine as backup. I wish you well with whatever you choose, but choose what’s best for you and put aside your anger and be motivated by your frustrations. Maybe flatwound strings will fix it all. Be well Mike Night Donkey Central
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
Tony, sounds like you and your buddies are moving in different directions. It happens all the time in music and the arts. While attitudes can crop up during the frustration and the realization of this phenomenon, when it’s all said and done, the parties involved move into different directions and later on, realize there are no "good guys" or "bad guys", just different wants, needs and desires. I’m not saying you shouldn’t see if things can be worked out, but I know this; if you aren’t *all* on the same proverbial "page", it *can’t* work (musically). If these are really your friends, then your musical aspirations and inclinations should be secondary to your mutual friendship. Don’t mistake your frustration at where the current situation is gravitating to with certain bandmembers as anger directed at them personally. People do strange things when they come to the realizations you all seem to be coming to at this time. I’m sure you’re drummer is (in his own funny way) trying to "pull" you his direction because he sincerely wants you to jump on board, and *not* because he thinks you’re an asshole. Have a sincere meeting with these guys and don’t hold back from telling them what you want from your bandmates, and encourage them to do the same. While there should be a little bit of give and take from all bandmembers, nobody should have to totally compromise their musical aspirations in a win_win_win_win band situation. It sounds like the guitarist and drummer want to go full-time and you want to stay part-time. What’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you what’s wrong with that – you’ll miss each other personally… you’re "bros". True "bros" will encourage each other to spread their wings though. If that means moving on, so be it. Good luck! END/ Dear Abby Response "*** Wastin’ Away Again In Margarittaville ***"
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I’d say quit the band and finish off College. I’m in the same boat. It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. Ah well, guitarists are a ‘dime a dozen’ NOT bass players. -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
agreed. pd — check out: http://www.pstone.com for "ridiculouslygoodmusic." http://peterduncan.net "my shameless penchant for self promotion."
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Also depends on what the guitar amps are. Get something at least twice the level the guitar amp, more if you can afford it.
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Ok, Thanks for the reliability responses. I guess I need some more basic information. Just started playing Bass, have a gig on Oct. 30th. Our sets will be alternative top 40 and some classic rock. I need to get an amp by then. Most of our gigs will be in small halls or clubs. On the 30th we’ll be in a club with a capacity of 200. What do you think I need for an amp. (One guy tells me 150 watt, 15 inch will be what I need.) Thanks!
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: Here is my concern. I realize any surgury involving anestisa (sp?) is : dangerous and even more so since the stress is bad for a FeLv cat. On the : other hand I am told that the shots will be bad long term because they : reduce his already reduced immune system. So I’m stumped. He’s otherwise : healthy (just had blood work done — aok) and happy. Oof. I have a FeLV+ kitty myself and know exactly what you’re going through. My tendency with the + kitties is, if they’re eating well, active, and relatively happy, leave ‘em be. As you well know any stress can be the thing that tips them, and I am very reluctant to push that line. Are you using Interferon as well? And what is this "antirobe" shot you mentioned? I haven’t heard about it and I’m always looking for ways to help the cats be healthy, longer. -J. Farrow EMT-D /_/ Timmain, Shatter, Banshee, & Faolin /_/ =^x^= =^x^= *in memory of Thistle 8/96-3/11/97* He came without a farthing, a babe without a name.. so much ado about nothing, was what he tried to say
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Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav : Here is my concern. I realize any surgury involving anestisa (sp?) is : dangerous and even more so since the stress is bad for a FeLv cat. On the : other hand I am told that the shots will be bad long term because they : reduce his already reduced immune system. So I’m stumped. He’s otherwise : healthy (just had blood work done – aok) and happy. Oof. I have a FeLV+ kitty myself and know exactly what you’re going through. My tendency with the + kitties is, if they’re eating well, active, and relatively happy, leave ‘em be. As you well know any stress can be the thing that tips them, and I am very reluctant to push that line. Are you using Interferon as well? And what is this "antirobe" shot you mentioned? I haven’t heard about it and I’m always looking for ways to help the cats be healthy, longer. -J. Farrow EMT-D =^x^= =^x^= *in memory of Thistle 8/96-3/11/97* He came without a farthing, a babe without a name.. so much ado about nothing, was what he tried to say Antirobe is the brand name for an antibiotic which is widely available, in injection and capsule. SPAM-FREE ZONE: to reply, omit "x" from email address <
Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive
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Hi, I need a little advice. I have two FeLv positive cats and one is an older (uncertain of age) Russian Blue with a chronic gingivitis (sp?) problem. I have been treating him since November with 2 doses of antirobe/per day and a steroid (cortizone?) shot as needed. Typically the shots have been once every other month but this time he’s working on his third month. I know when it is time for a new shot because he’ll start swearing when he’s eating — very loudly. Anyways. When I brought him in for a checkup a new vet looked at him (regular vet was on vacation) and advised that I consider removing his teeth (leaving canines). Up until that point my plan was that if the shots got down to once a month THEN I would put him through the surgury, until then go as before. This vet seems almost insistent that his problems should go away as the gingivitis is only on his gums. Here is my concern. I realize any surgury involving anestisa (sp?) is dangerous and even more so since the stress is bad for a FeLv cat. On the other hand I am told that the shots will be bad long term because they reduce his already reduced immune system. So I’m stumped. He’s otherwise healthy (just had blood work done — aok) and happy. Any advice? Thank you, Joann J. Cox
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal.
And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. — -rob O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
Hey no problem, I can take em I never went to prom though..I did go to homecoming once with one girl and leave with another…umm..oh yeah…so what color tuning pegs are the best? Adam
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Sorry……I wasn’t speaking in my ‘Voice of God’ tone again…..30 Hz is just so unrecognizable. My ears keep filling it in…. Anyway…. March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet? -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet?
Yup…sold the SR400 that I was debating over whether or not to keep…now there’s a space on the rack Adam
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Dear sir, I dropped out of college….I also have dropped out of bands…I’m seasoned enough to realize that advice based on my experiences will fall on deaf ears, therefore, I refrain….except for this one tidbit…Music, usually, is a hobby….and should be treated as such…. Hawkeye H.I.B. Advocate for Homeless Bassists
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If you’re not ready to make music or the band your whole life, like your drummer is, then don’t. Period. There will be many other opportunities for you down the road if music is really in your blood. If you’ve never placed a big emphasis on being a working musician before, this doesn’t seem like a good time to start. There’s no crime in being the first member of your band to grow up. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’
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if you don’t think those guys have the writing or performing skills then you won’t be missing anything if you quit. don’t screw up your life for a bunch of wannabes.
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Hey Tony..based on what you’ve said here, making the decision as a third party is easy. Leave them. A band is like a marriage. Unless everyone gets along, there’s going to be problems. You’ve already said that you don’t think very highly of your drummer, so you’re never going to play your best with him. Why settle for second best just to stay in a band? Whatever you do though, do it for you, not to spite anyone. If you vanished, they would find another bassist and forget about you. If you do it to spite them, you’re really still trying to be in the band, and your new band will end up the same as this one. Think it over, give it a day or two, and if you still feel this way, quit. Adam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them…..
What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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Anthony, This is a common occurance with bands. They come together and fall apart without anybody ever really communicating what and why they are in the band. As mentioned in a previous post, sit down with them and let them know that their friendship is worth more than anything the band can offer. Before you do that though, sit down with yourself and write down what your goals are as a bass player. What do you want to accomplish for yourself in the next year, two years and five years. Then write down what your goals would be as a band. Again, next year, two years, and five years from now. Take your "Band" goals and share them with your band mates. You can then figure out if it’s time to move on or stick around. The worst thing you can do is to have silent expectations and find yourself sometime down the road with only frustration and resentment. I have an article that I wrote that covers a lot of this at http://www.zone0ne.com/bassics/html/band.htm. Good Luck! Todd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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I know you’ve come to a decision, but I wanted to add just a little more. You say you miss about 25% of the practices. That is an awful lot. I don’t know if that would be tolerated in most bands. Are practices scheduled at a regular time and place? Can they come to you, rather than you going to them? The ability to practice together is certainly one of the most important parts (IMO) to building a cohesive band. It also occurs to me their attitude might be their way of telling you your geographic remoteness is getting in the way of the band unless you take a greater effort to making scheduled rehearsals. (For what it is worth, I live about 45 miles from the closest member of my band. (One of the ‘benefits’ of living in the sticks.) Every week I drive for an hour to get to practice, and then an hour home. This works ok for me, but it might not be an optimal situation in your case.) It strikes me that being in a college town might be a great place for you to find another group of musicians. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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This group gives good advice! I feel better about his problems now! :) jordan
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I wouldn’t worry about it! Just part as good friends, and it will all come around again. You have to get used to change when you play music. In your musical lifetime you will experience a ton of changes i.e. people get married to unapproving spouse’s/pick up unacceptable drug habits etc. Not everybody can be like U2 and stay together 25 years. Finish collage, if you have been playing since you where Five, I have a feeling you will be there in the long run:-) Aloha, Jerry
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys?
Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them.
When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do.
If fun is the #1 consideration and you are not having fun you should quit. Not much else to say is there? — Brian Rost Stargen, Inc.
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If they _are_ friends then you have grounds for sorting it all out. If you can’t sort it out, maybe they’re not the friends you thought they were. Band politics! Sheesh – I had to leave one band because I refused to join the Socialist Workers Party like the others…not that I wasn’t sympathetic…<grin People change, especially around the college years (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not meant to) and maybe you’ve just grown a little faster than your old friends…don’t dump it all after one argument – state your case clearly and without rancor, if you still can’t hash out a mutually satisfactory agreement then shake hands & move on. There are hundreds of musicians at any given college (with the same schedule as yourself) and who knows – you might get together with these guys again when the air has cleared. Good Luck!!! — Graeme White – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.guitar.bass Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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If the band is about fun, and it is not fun anymore, you will probably find your answer there. It sounds as though you might be the most musical of the group, and that you have grown beyond it. You’ll surely be able to hook up with another band, or start one of your own. If the band was about making a living your decision ‘might’ be different. I often think of the line from "That Thing Your Do!" with Del Paxton saying to Guy Patterson, if the band is bound to dissolve, "there ain’t no way to keep a band together." Scott
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. If this is worth the soap opera, figure out a way to work it out. So far nothing you’ve mentioned should upset you IMO, you’re the one who isn’t always there, think about how constricting that can be to work without a bassist. Starting a band to spite the drummer? I can think of lots of reasons to start a band, spite wouldn’t be one of them. Spite will probably cause you to put more time and effort into the next one, causing you to neglect the books, just so you can "show" the drummer you’re the better person. Life’s too short. Think about it. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Maybe you should try a set of Bartolinis. All joking aside, there is nothing wrong with moving on, and preserving the friendships that you have grown. I’ll tell you one thing, changing your musical surroundings will give you a chance to grow in ways you can’t imagine right now. It’s like having deep(no pun int) conversation with new friends. Just be thankful that none of these guys have tried to bring a girlfriend into the band as tambourine as backup. I wish you well with whatever you choose, but choose what’s best for you and put aside your anger and be motivated by your frustrations. Maybe flatwound strings will fix it all. Be well Mike Night Donkey Central
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
Tony, sounds like you and your buddies are moving in different directions. It happens all the time in music and the arts. While attitudes can crop up during the frustration and the realization of this phenomenon, when it’s all said and done, the parties involved move into different directions and later on, realize there are no "good guys" or "bad guys", just different wants, needs and desires. I’m not saying you shouldn’t see if things can be worked out, but I know this; if you aren’t *all* on the same proverbial "page", it *can’t* work (musically). If these are really your friends, then your musical aspirations and inclinations should be secondary to your mutual friendship. Don’t mistake your frustration at where the current situation is gravitating to with certain bandmembers as anger directed at them personally. People do strange things when they come to the realizations you all seem to be coming to at this time. I’m sure you’re drummer is (in his own funny way) trying to "pull" you his direction because he sincerely wants you to jump on board, and *not* because he thinks you’re an asshole. Have a sincere meeting with these guys and don’t hold back from telling them what you want from your bandmates, and encourage them to do the same. While there should be a little bit of give and take from all bandmembers, nobody should have to totally compromise their musical aspirations in a win_win_win_win band situation. It sounds like the guitarist and drummer want to go full-time and you want to stay part-time. What’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you what’s wrong with that – you’ll miss each other personally… you’re "bros". True "bros" will encourage each other to spread their wings though. If that means moving on, so be it. Good luck! END/ Dear Abby Response "*** Wastin’ Away Again In Margarittaville ***"
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I’d say quit the band and finish off College. I’m in the same boat. It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. Ah well, guitarists are a ‘dime a dozen’ NOT bass players. -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Hi everyone: I’m going to be seeing a dermatologist soon for the first time in the over 30 years that I have had psoriasis. It’s never been a serious problem until last November, or so, when I started getting a lot of patches on my legs and my butt! Got 3 or 4 on my arms too. I can’t imagine what has caused this and, after reading all of the postings, I’m throughly confused as to what to use or not use. I don’t like going into the dermatologist’s office blind, so any advice you all would care to give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. — The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - Mahatma Ghandi
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Hi everyone: I’m going to be seeing a dermatologist soon for the first time in the over 30 years that I have had psoriasis. It’s never been a serious problem until last November, or so, when I started getting a lot of patches on my legs and my butt! Got 3 or 4 on my arms too. I can’t imagine what has caused this and, after reading all of the postings, I’m throughly confused as to what to use or not use. I don’t like going into the dermatologist’s office blind, so any advice you all would care to give me would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Gwen- My best advice is to stoke yourself up with as much basic info as you can beforehand, so you can judge how the derm is dealing with you (e.g. treating you like a mental defective, simply not telling you a lot of things he should or answering your questions , etc vs co-operative approach to treating and dealing with it by looking for the best treatment for you). Visit someplace like the NPF site and get a feel for what P really is, what the usual treatments are, with associated risks, what the newest things are -even if they’re not yet available to you, the derm knowing about them is a good sign. Basically, the more you know the less you’ll feel like you can be intimidated or otherwise not treated properly as a patient in general, and one with P in perticular And the better you can co-operate in working out how to deal with the disease.. Also, ask the derm if he/she specializes in P. One who doesn’t is less likely to have the knowledge and patience to offer you the best treatment. Dermatologist is not equivalent to P expert. Ask other questions. When the derm suggests a treatment course, ask him why that specific one over other options and what side effects you can expect, along with suggestions on how to deal with them. Ask questions that may have occurred from things you find at the NPF site or elsewhere. Good luck NPF site is at http://www.psoriasis.org -Kim "From far, from eve and morning And yon twelve winded sky The stuff of life to knit me Blew hither, here am I" -A. E. Housman
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice.
I’ve tried it all, Dear. This list has heard it all, too! Coral has lots of toys that are regularly changed out, and she goes through lots of disposable toys from bits of rope to clothes pins to my kids’ toys that they forget to put away. I work from home so she’s not alone all day, and my kids are home for the summer so she’s getting even more attention than normal. She spends time outside each day with a misting device to cool her off and gets a daily spritz bath. In winter she has a humidifier that I set up near her cage. My husband and this bird are in love with each other and he dotes on her when he gets home each evening. She has a varied diet and eats well. She "helps" me fold laundry and do other house hold things and she gets to go outside almost every evening to walk around the yard and visit with neighbors. She gets to hop on our bed about three times a week while we watch TV. I’ve tried dietary changes, dietary additives, eliminating certain things from her diet. I’ve tried moving her cage, moving her closer to, then farther from the other birds. I’ve even tried allowing her to take dust baths. Her feathers looks great except for the chewed off tail and wing feathers. She no longer makes herself bleed like she did when we got her. Her chewing started when her former owners divorced and the other spouse moved out with her friend, a U2. That was some seven years ago. Her vet finds nothing wrong with her physically. We’ve had her a year. Her life is quite full and active but she still chews her feathers. — Kellie
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Did your vet mention that feather-plucking is also a behavioural problem in birds who suffer from boredom? Just to test this buy him some new toys and spend more time with him, maybe move the cage to a new place or put it out in the sun during the day. See if you can make his life a bit more interesting and watch for changes in the behaviour. If this does not work assume it is physical and seek further (different) vetinary advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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You’re right to bathe him. This promotes feather health. Where is Dr. Graham???? gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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snip He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
Steve, Get him to a good avian vet and have him tested for Giardiasis. It’s quite common in cockatiels and one of the symptoms is "classic painfully violent feather picking with screaming." (quoting from Pet Avian Medicine by Walter J. Rosskopf, Jr, DVM and Richard W. Woerpel, DVM) — Mama Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ To email reply: Change nest to net. "How great the reverence I feel when a small bird accepts me as a friend." ( Helen Thomson) ——
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He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !!
You need to think about changing his diet as well. Finch seed is not the best choice for a tiel. Any of the good quality tiel mixes will be better suited to his needs. Kepp up the veggies and try to get him to eat greens in addition to the corn. You might try including food items among his toys to get his interest. Stringing a piece of corn into a toy will make the toy much more interesting and provide additional stimulation as he will have to work harder to get his favorite food. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. snip Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified.
Gloria is absolutely right. Irrespective of the initial cause, plucking becomes a conditioned behavior in many species, persisting sometimes for years after the causative agent has been removed, treated, or suppressed. Several factors often present in idiopathic plucking which are either ignored or overlooked by many veterinarians. First concerns average intake and serum level of Vitamins A1/A2 and D (cholecalciferol). Balance between both are necessary to promote both lipid and kerotenotic (leading to feather development) process. Impairment of this transfer probably leads to irritation of skin and feather bases. Addition of an A & D fish oil to diet improves overall feather formation. There may be slight liver deficit as part, or totally seperate from this factor. There is such a wide variance, both seasonally and by species in both Sgot and Sgpt levels it is sometimes difficult to determine "abnormal" levels. There is a developing body of evidence within the alternative treatment community that Milk Thistle Extract may be of some use in stimulating liver function (especially in fatty liver disease), and in picking/plucking behaviors. Light and photoperiod are concerns that very often lead to many behavioral and metabolic complaints. Any bird which is exibiting plucking behaviors should be exposed to a full spectrum solution, applied by timer for 12 hours per day. The light quality, consistent photoperiod, UVA irradiation work together to stimulate the pineal and pituitary function to normal rhythms. This light ( and the UVA component lacking in normal room light) also serves to fine tune the bird’s circadian clock, not to mention providing a full visual field for the bird. The application of monochromatic red light a few hours a day, in combination with full spectrum fluorescent has been shown useful in many picking/plucking populations. Be aware when choosing a full spectrum solution that screw in incandescent lamps are not by any measure "full spectrum". Their skewed output can often times cause these same problems. Regards, Patrick Thrush Visit the Birds & Lighting Website: http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ "Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadfull." Samuel Johnson, Rasselas Ch. 41
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I have a feather chewing cockatoo and the only thing that makes a difference is to mist her every single day throughout the summer and keep a humidifier on her during the winter. She still chews her feathers, but not as badly, and not to the point of bleeding as she used to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
– Kellie
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area.
My cockatoo only chews the ends of her wing and tail feathers. She used to chew her wing and tail blood feathers to the point of bleeding, but she’s not doing that any more. —
Kellie
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Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I’ve been to this site recommended by Gloria, the address is to http://www.birdsnways.com More than well worth a visit. Regards Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather …birds… Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Taking physical risks is a family tradition." – Robert Kennedy
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Yea, sure, I’m sorry. I forgot the D in birDs!!! http://www.birdsnways.com Sorry! Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gloria, Can you check that web address please, I tried it but it was unavailable. Our kebab man has an `oven ready` CAG and I promised to find him some information. Thanks, — Alan Gabriel Remove hat. to reply Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria
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I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Hi Steve how r u ? What conditions is the bird kept in ? is it by its self? have you changed anything in the enviroment,diet etc etc? feather plucking has been reported as a happening in cockatiels often, which sadly is mainly a behavioural problem. has the bird injured its wing ? see you later Ozzyparrot darren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Try a different vet. Do you have an "avian" vet close? Your bird is "feather plucking" and it usually starts on the breast, shoulders or belly/leg area. Feather plucking can be a result of physical or emotional circumstances and is easy to diagnose, hard to cure. It’s like a bad habit that keeps getting worse. Your bird may have a physical defiency, vitamins, etc. Or, could he or she be bored? Often a bird will turn on itself out of boredom, rejection, fear, sense of abandonment, change in atmosphere, etc. I had a Blue Crown conure that plucked badly. We put the poor guy through all kinds of therapies and nothing worked. What I would suggest is not putting anything on the feathers, Oxyfresh, Aloe, etc. All it does is gunk up the feathers and cause the bird to preen the stuff off, worsening the problem. Get the bird to an avian specialist if possible. This plucking habit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP or it will be very difficult to stop, even after whatever is *causing* it is rectified. Also, go to http://www.birsnways.com and read the articles on feather plucking. There are more than you probably have time for but you should learn all you can about it. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a cockateil that insists on plucking the feathers off the top shoulder / wing area on one side, including new growth. He has conditioner in with his seed and is dusted with mite powder but still persists. A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
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Many thanks to both Darren and Gloria for their responses, they are much appreciated in the help that they provide… A bit more info in response to darren is The bird is kept in a large cage within the main living area of the house. He is only in the cage between about 8.30AM and 5.15PM when we are all at work. The rest of the time he is free to go where he wants in the house, but spends most of his time perched on me for his neck to be scratched or having a nosey into whatever he can get into, particularly any empty boxes we leave lying around for him. He pays no attention to any "toys" we buy for him. He did have a wing injury (left him with the wrong people when we went on holiday) but that was some years ago. His plucking goes in periods and starts / stops for no apparent reason. He is fed on Foreign Finch Seed, along with conditioniong grains, sweetcorn (will kill for that!!!), plus anything that we are eating he will try !! He enjoys being sprayed but when he is preening afterwards, screeches a great deal. Thanks to all again Steve
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A visit to the vets just resulted in more mite powder and did no good. Any help would be appreciated. Please either leave a message or email me at Many thanxs Steve
First find a new vet that is experienced with birds. Then you need to have some tests ran to check for infection and fungus. — TA FAW "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson Visit our web pages at: http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html And our photo gallery at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
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I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? Thanks for your time. – Steven –
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| I’m thinking about buying a bird as a pet, of course. Since it’s my | first time, can anyone please give me any recomandation on species? | Thanks for your time. | | – Steven – You will have to provide more information about what you expect from your bird. Did you want a bird that you can enjoy watching and listening to in a cage or aviary? Do you want to hold the bird a lot, pet it, and generally give it lots of attention? Do you would to occasionally hold the bird, but at other times want him to entertain himself? How big of a bird do you want? What noise level can you tolerate (or your neighbors)? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you able to accept a hard bite occassionally without loosing your cool? Do you want a bird that will have a good chance of learning to talk? With more information your question can be more accurately addressed. After saying all that, my first bird was a cockatiel and I think they are a great first bird. They are very friendly and easy to handle. They are relatively quiet. They are small, so they don’t take up much space. They are hardy, so you are not visiting the vet every other week. They like to bluff you with their mean look and hisses, but they seldom bite and when mine did bite, you hardly felt it. None of my kids had a problem handling our cockatiel. — Ron — | Ronald J. Bremer (503)627-5608 | Here is my final conclusion: | | Software Technology Research Lab | Fear God and obey his command- | | P.O. Box 500 M.S. 50-662 | ments, for this is the entire | | Beaverton, OR 98662 | duty of man. |
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog.
We did that also. Worked out great for us. We "dogsat" a Lab/Chesapeak Bay Retriever, a dalmation, and a spaniel. It worked out so great with Jake (our "only dog") that we ended up with a second dog and a playmate for him!!
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Thanks.
Do you have any relatives or nieghbors that you can trust? I suppose that taking the pup with you is entirely out of the question, in our family the dogs are like kids we always make arangements to take the along. How about a local Boy Scout Troop their might be a trustworthy Scout that is working on his Pet Care merit badge. Good Luck — Fred,Eva,Eric,The pooches Rocky and Bunny Baytown Tx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away.
Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time. — Mary Portelly (mum to Troop and Casper) "Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read". – Groucho Marx.
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I have a 3 month old puppy who will be 4 months old when I need to take a two week trip out of town. I would like to know about different options that I have (other than a kennel) to have him well taken care of while I’m away. Mentally try going through a list of your friends/relatives/coworkers and see if you can come up with someone who would like to have a dog but who doesn’t want the responsibility at the moment – and then offer to lend them your puppy for two weeks. Who could resist such an offer? We ended up with 3 regular puppy-sitters this way and Troop (our lab mix) always had a great time.
Don’t discount people who already have a dog! I "dogsat" for several friends (a Basset, a Heeler, and a Bernese Mtn. Dog all visited for days/weeks!) when Sam was an "only dog". He got a playmate, and I got to see how he’d be with a second dog before I actually *got* a second dog. — Mary & the Ames (Iowa, USA) National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis", 10 yo TB); ANZ Sam-I-Am ("Sam", 5 yo ACDx); ANZ Noah Doll, CGC, OFA Good ("Noah", 2 yo ACD); kitties from h*ll;
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
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If you’re not going to go through the PA, then don’t mess around, get an amp that you won’t regret buying two months down the road. In other words, minimum of 300 Watts (I emphasize, minimum), multiple drivers in the cabs. A 2×10" with a horn and a 15" is a good all-around combo. For bass, you just can’t have enough power, whether you use it all at once or not is immaterial. If you buy an undersized amp, you will regret it every time you play a big hall or outdoors. Save up your money and don’t make a rookie mistake.
agreed. pd — check out: http://www.pstone.com for "ridiculouslygoodmusic." http://peterduncan.net "my shameless penchant for self promotion."
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Also depends on what the guitar amps are. Get something at least twice the level the guitar amp, more if you can afford it.
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Ok, Thanks for the reliability responses. I guess I need some more basic information. Just started playing Bass, have a gig on Oct. 30th. Our sets will be alternative top 40 and some classic rock. I need to get an amp by then. Most of our gigs will be in small halls or clubs. On the 30th we’ll be in a club with a capacity of 200. What do you think I need for an amp. (One guy tells me 150 watt, 15 inch will be what I need.) Thanks!
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: Here is my concern. I realize any surgury involving anestisa (sp?) is : dangerous and even more so since the stress is bad for a FeLv cat. On the : other hand I am told that the shots will be bad long term because they : reduce his already reduced immune system. So I’m stumped. He’s otherwise : healthy (just had blood work done — aok) and happy. Oof. I have a FeLV+ kitty myself and know exactly what you’re going through. My tendency with the + kitties is, if they’re eating well, active, and relatively happy, leave ‘em be. As you well know any stress can be the thing that tips them, and I am very reluctant to push that line. Are you using Interferon as well? And what is this "antirobe" shot you mentioned? I haven’t heard about it and I’m always looking for ways to help the cats be healthy, longer. -J. Farrow EMT-D /_/ Timmain, Shatter, Banshee, & Faolin /_/ =^x^= =^x^= *in memory of Thistle 8/96-3/11/97* He came without a farthing, a babe without a name.. so much ado about nothing, was what he tried to say
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Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav : Here is my concern. I realize any surgury involving anestisa (sp?) is : dangerous and even more so since the stress is bad for a FeLv cat. On the : other hand I am told that the shots will be bad long term because they : reduce his already reduced immune system. So I’m stumped. He’s otherwise : healthy (just had blood work done – aok) and happy. Oof. I have a FeLV+ kitty myself and know exactly what you’re going through. My tendency with the + kitties is, if they’re eating well, active, and relatively happy, leave ‘em be. As you well know any stress can be the thing that tips them, and I am very reluctant to push that line. Are you using Interferon as well? And what is this "antirobe" shot you mentioned? I haven’t heard about it and I’m always looking for ways to help the cats be healthy, longer. -J. Farrow EMT-D =^x^= =^x^= *in memory of Thistle 8/96-3/11/97* He came without a farthing, a babe without a name.. so much ado about nothing, was what he tried to say Antirobe is the brand name for an antibiotic which is widely available, in injection and capsule. SPAM-FREE ZONE: to reply, omit "x" from email address <
Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive
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Hi, I need a little advice. I have two FeLv positive cats and one is an older (uncertain of age) Russian Blue with a chronic gingivitis (sp?) problem. I have been treating him since November with 2 doses of antirobe/per day and a steroid (cortizone?) shot as needed. Typically the shots have been once every other month but this time he’s working on his third month. I know when it is time for a new shot because he’ll start swearing when he’s eating — very loudly. Anyways. When I brought him in for a checkup a new vet looked at him (regular vet was on vacation) and advised that I consider removing his teeth (leaving canines). Up until that point my plan was that if the shots got down to once a month THEN I would put him through the surgury, until then go as before. This vet seems almost insistent that his problems should go away as the gingivitis is only on his gums. Here is my concern. I realize any surgury involving anestisa (sp?) is dangerous and even more so since the stress is bad for a FeLv cat. On the other hand I am told that the shots will be bad long term because they reduce his already reduced immune system. So I’m stumped. He’s otherwise healthy (just had blood work done — aok) and happy. Any advice? Thank you, Joann J. Cox
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal.
And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. — -rob O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. And to add to this, no matter how good of friends you are with these guys, things changed immediately when you started the band. If you quit, they will act like the girl who was dumped at the prom, no matter what you say or how you try and convince them otherwise. You need to look past that, and accept the fact that part of your friendship will be left behind. If they are truly great friends, they will remain that way. Adam
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This is not the proper forum for you "Prom issues" Adam. O< sorry, just had to take that one /() ^^
Hey no problem, I can take em I never went to prom though..I did go to homecoming once with one girl and leave with another…umm..oh yeah…so what color tuning pegs are the best? Adam
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Sorry……I wasn’t speaking in my ‘Voice of God’ tone again…..30 Hz is just so unrecognizable. My ears keep filling it in…. Anyway…. March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet? -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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March 31st is this Saturday….have you cleared a spot for your new bass yet?
Yup…sold the SR400 that I was debating over whether or not to keep…now there’s a space on the rack Adam
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Dear sir, I dropped out of college….I also have dropped out of bands…I’m seasoned enough to realize that advice based on my experiences will fall on deaf ears, therefore, I refrain….except for this one tidbit…Music, usually, is a hobby….and should be treated as such…. Hawkeye H.I.B. Advocate for Homeless Bassists
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If you’re not ready to make music or the band your whole life, like your drummer is, then don’t. Period. There will be many other opportunities for you down the road if music is really in your blood. If you’ve never placed a big emphasis on being a working musician before, this doesn’t seem like a good time to start. There’s no crime in being the first member of your band to grow up. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’
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if you don’t think those guys have the writing or performing skills then you won’t be missing anything if you quit. don’t screw up your life for a bunch of wannabes.
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Hey Tony..based on what you’ve said here, making the decision as a third party is easy. Leave them. A band is like a marriage. Unless everyone gets along, there’s going to be problems. You’ve already said that you don’t think very highly of your drummer, so you’re never going to play your best with him. Why settle for second best just to stay in a band? Whatever you do though, do it for you, not to spite anyone. If you vanished, they would find another bassist and forget about you. If you do it to spite them, you’re really still trying to be in the band, and your new band will end up the same as this one. Think it over, give it a day or two, and if you still feel this way, quit. Adam
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them…..
What’d you say? I couldn’t hear you over your guitarist… Sorry Chris, I had to take that one Adam
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Anthony, This is a common occurance with bands. They come together and fall apart without anybody ever really communicating what and why they are in the band. As mentioned in a previous post, sit down with them and let them know that their friendship is worth more than anything the band can offer. Before you do that though, sit down with yourself and write down what your goals are as a bass player. What do you want to accomplish for yourself in the next year, two years and five years. Then write down what your goals would be as a band. Again, next year, two years, and five years from now. Take your "Band" goals and share them with your band mates. You can then figure out if it’s time to move on or stick around. The worst thing you can do is to have silent expectations and find yourself sometime down the road with only frustration and resentment. I have an article that I wrote that covers a lot of this at http://www.zone0ne.com/bassics/html/band.htm. Good Luck! Todd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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I know you’ve come to a decision, but I wanted to add just a little more. You say you miss about 25% of the practices. That is an awful lot. I don’t know if that would be tolerated in most bands. Are practices scheduled at a regular time and place? Can they come to you, rather than you going to them? The ability to practice together is certainly one of the most important parts (IMO) to building a cohesive band. It also occurs to me their attitude might be their way of telling you your geographic remoteness is getting in the way of the band unless you take a greater effort to making scheduled rehearsals. (For what it is worth, I live about 45 miles from the closest member of my band. (One of the ‘benefits’ of living in the sticks.) Every week I drive for an hour to get to practice, and then an hour home. This works ok for me, but it might not be an optimal situation in your case.) It strikes me that being in a college town might be a great place for you to find another group of musicians. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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This group gives good advice! I feel better about his problems now! :) jordan
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I wouldn’t worry about it! Just part as good friends, and it will all come around again. You have to get used to change when you play music. In your musical lifetime you will experience a ton of changes i.e. people get married to unapproving spouse’s/pick up unacceptable drug habits etc. Not everybody can be like U2 and stay together 25 years. Finish collage, if you have been playing since you where Five, I have a feeling you will be there in the long run:-) Aloha, Jerry
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys?
Yes I do. I have always wanted to play music with them. If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them.
When I say I’ve missed practices, I have missed maybe 1 out of every four, but only because I’m in school 50 miles away from the rest of them. The band was never anyone’s. It was all of ours. That’s the problem. I want to thank everyone for their advice. It was good and I’m going to take most of it to heart. I’ve had a few days to cool off now, and I think I’m probably going to stick around for a few more practices to see if the situation improves. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to leave. Again, thanks guys. Tony
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Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do.
If fun is the #1 consideration and you are not having fun you should quit. Not much else to say is there? — Brian Rost Stargen, Inc.
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If they _are_ friends then you have grounds for sorting it all out. If you can’t sort it out, maybe they’re not the friends you thought they were. Band politics! Sheesh – I had to leave one band because I refused to join the Socialist Workers Party like the others…not that I wasn’t sympathetic…<grin People change, especially around the college years (sorry if that sounds condescending, it’s not meant to) and maybe you’ve just grown a little faster than your old friends…don’t dump it all after one argument – state your case clearly and without rancor, if you still can’t hash out a mutually satisfactory agreement then shake hands & move on. There are hundreds of musicians at any given college (with the same schedule as yourself) and who knows – you might get together with these guys again when the air has cleared. Good Luck!!! — Graeme White – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.guitar.bass Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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If the band is about fun, and it is not fun anymore, you will probably find your answer there. It sounds as though you might be the most musical of the group, and that you have grown beyond it. You’ll surely be able to hook up with another band, or start one of your own. If the band was about making a living your decision ‘might’ be different. I often think of the line from "That Thing Your Do!" with Del Paxton saying to Guy Patterson, if the band is bound to dissolve, "there ain’t no way to keep a band together." Scott
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Taking into consideration that you had to leave a lot out, not pointing a finger either way (yet ;^), I’d ask you a simple question: Do you want to play with these guys? If you do, then whatever attitudes have surfaced will have to be dealt with. Whatever effect the time you spend with them is having on your academics should be a big factor. You’ve been missing practices. Someone has an attitude about it, no surprise there. As far as the drummer thinking the "band" is his, whose band was it before? If they’re there and you’re not…do you think it should be yours? Realize the impact you not being there has on the two of them. If this is worth the soap opera, figure out a way to work it out. So far nothing you’ve mentioned should upset you IMO, you’re the one who isn’t always there, think about how constricting that can be to work without a bassist. Starting a band to spite the drummer? I can think of lots of reasons to start a band, spite wouldn’t be one of them. Spite will probably cause you to put more time and effort into the next one, causing you to neglect the books, just so you can "show" the drummer you’re the better person. Life’s too short. Think about it. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Maybe you should try a set of Bartolinis. All joking aside, there is nothing wrong with moving on, and preserving the friendships that you have grown. I’ll tell you one thing, changing your musical surroundings will give you a chance to grow in ways you can’t imagine right now. It’s like having deep(no pun int) conversation with new friends. Just be thankful that none of these guys have tried to bring a girlfriend into the band as tambourine as backup. I wish you well with whatever you choose, but choose what’s best for you and put aside your anger and be motivated by your frustrations. Maybe flatwound strings will fix it all. Be well Mike Night Donkey Central
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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Off the cuff, Friendships are more important than bands. I would explain that you feel the current flow of things risks damaging the friendship, and unless things change, it would be better for the friendships if they found a new bassist. Remember, you still want to be their friends, and you don’t want all this business stuff messing that up. Someday, you may well end up back in a band with some, or all of them. When you have time to be an equal. — -rob O /() ^^
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
Tony, sounds like you and your buddies are moving in different directions. It happens all the time in music and the arts. While attitudes can crop up during the frustration and the realization of this phenomenon, when it’s all said and done, the parties involved move into different directions and later on, realize there are no "good guys" or "bad guys", just different wants, needs and desires. I’m not saying you shouldn’t see if things can be worked out, but I know this; if you aren’t *all* on the same proverbial "page", it *can’t* work (musically). If these are really your friends, then your musical aspirations and inclinations should be secondary to your mutual friendship. Don’t mistake your frustration at where the current situation is gravitating to with certain bandmembers as anger directed at them personally. People do strange things when they come to the realizations you all seem to be coming to at this time. I’m sure you’re drummer is (in his own funny way) trying to "pull" you his direction because he sincerely wants you to jump on board, and *not* because he thinks you’re an asshole. Have a sincere meeting with these guys and don’t hold back from telling them what you want from your bandmates, and encourage them to do the same. While there should be a little bit of give and take from all bandmembers, nobody should have to totally compromise their musical aspirations in a win_win_win_win band situation. It sounds like the guitarist and drummer want to go full-time and you want to stay part-time. What’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you what’s wrong with that – you’ll miss each other personally… you’re "bros". True "bros" will encourage each other to spread their wings though. If that means moving on, so be it. Good luck! END/ Dear Abby Response "*** Wastin’ Away Again In Margarittaville ***"
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I’d say quit the band and finish off College. I’m in the same boat. It just that my guitar player wants to ‘own the stage’ What is with it with guitar players? I think they were born with spotlights attached to them….. Ah well, guitarists are a ‘dime a dozen’ NOT bass players. -Chris
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey guys. I’m not a regular poster here, but I do read a lot. I was just wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I’ve been playing with a band ever since I started playing a few years ago. The guys in the band all started playing at the same time, myself included. Now, however, a problem has arisen. Ever since we started playing, this whole band has been about fun. It was never about gigging, or recording, or making money of any kind. Recently, we decided to record some of our songs in a studio. Ever since then, the drummer has decided to make music his life. He’s a competent drummer at best, an ok guitarist, and not a very good songwriter. He now thinks the band is his. I can’t make it a lot of times to practice because I do have a lot of other things to do. Mainly trying to graduate college. While I’m not there, the guitarist and the drummer still get together and write songs. When they show me these songs, I like them sometimes, and other times I can see ways to improve them. I have a strong musical background, since I was 5 and am now 22, in theory and exposure. My input is not valued most of the time because as he said, "You’re not there, so why should I think you’re equal?". These guys have been my best friends since I can remember. There is no problem with me and the guitarist, but the drummer and I just can’t agree. I left practice the other day with my status in the band up in air. I don’t know if I should quit, or stay. Granted, there are a whole lot of details not included, but that’s because I don’t want to write a transcript of a three-hour argument. I just want to know what you guys would do. I’m torn as to what I should do. I’m still pissed writing this, so I’m just thinking that I should quit and form my own band to spite the drummer. But that’s probably just me still steamed. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, Tony
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We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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If the claw was damaged or cut to short it will appear blackish as it heals. Sounds like you just need to wait for it to heal.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We just noticed that our Zebra finch’s claw is partially discolored black. It appears to be either an infection or a bruise. Has anyone experienced this, and do you think we should have a vet look at it? Thanks in advance.
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He may have gotten his toenail caught. Check the rest of his nails to make sure that they are not over grown, this could cause a problem. If it is black, either that is the color of the skin or there is no circulation to the area and he could possibly lose the nail, or part of the toe. Does it look infected or smell? I don’t want to be an alarmist, but black can mean gangrene. I just want to make you aware of the possibilities. If you are unsure, have him checked by an Avian Vet. Hope the little guy is alright. Regards.
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Hi everyone: I’m going to be seeing a dermatologist soon for the first time in the over 30 years that I have had psoriasis. It’s never been a serious problem until last November, or so, when I started getting a lot of patches on my legs and my butt! Got 3 or 4 on my arms too. I can’t imagine what has caused this and, after reading all of the postings, I’m throughly confused as to what to use or not use. I don’t like going into the dermatologist’s office blind, so any advice you all would care to give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. — The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - Mahatma Ghandi
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Hi everyone: I’m going to be seeing a dermatologist soon for the first time in the over 30 years that I have had psoriasis. It’s never been a serious problem until last November, or so, when I started getting a lot of patches on my legs and my butt! Got 3 or 4 on my arms too. I can’t imagine what has caused this and, after reading all of the postings, I’m throughly confused as to what to use or not use. I don’t like going into the dermatologist’s office blind, so any advice you all would care to give me would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Gwen- My best advice is to stoke yourself up with as much basic info as you can beforehand, so you can judge how the derm is dealing with you (e.g. treating you like a mental defective, simply not telling you a lot of things he should or answering your questions , etc vs co-operative approach to treating and dealing with it by looking for the best treatment for you). Visit someplace like the NPF site and get a feel for what P really is, what the usual treatments are, with associated risks, what the newest things are -even if they’re not yet available to you, the derm knowing about them is a good sign. Basically, the more you know the less you’ll feel like you can be intimidated or otherwise not treated properly as a patient in general, and one with P in perticular And the better you can co-operate in working out how to deal with the disease.. Also, ask the derm if he/she specializes in P. One who doesn’t is less likely to have the knowledge and patience to offer you the best treatment. Dermatologist is not equivalent to P expert. Ask other questions. When the derm suggests a treatment course, ask him why that specific one over other options and what side effects you can expect, along with suggestions on how to deal with them. Ask questions that may have occurred from things you find at the NPF site or elsewhere. Good luck NPF site is at http://www.psoriasis.org -Kim "From far, from eve and morning And yon twelve winded sky The stuff of life to knit me Blew hither, here am I" -A. E. Housman
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Thanks for responding, I am asking for a friend who has talked to their parents, school counselor and is not getting help. I just wanted to get suggestions on other routes to help for someone under 18.
How bad off is this person. Might they hurt themself? A drastic measure might be to show up at the emergency room telling them that he/she wants to kill themself. That wil get attention – especially if the parents won’t consent to treatment but your friend refuses to leave. That is obviously very drastic, but worth discussing with your frienf if thing are or might be that bad off. The sooner treatment is started, the better off this person is. Kimberly
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Why would you not want to tell your parents you think you may be sick? Don’t you think they would understand?
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Why would you not want to tell your parents you think you may be sick? Don’t you think they would understand?
We can hope so. But sometimes parents have the best intentions but still make the wrong choices. Ask…ask….then demand! I had always felt "other" out of sync…in a strange place since I was a littlegirl. My mother ripped from me at age four, the victim of alcoholism and an early death at 36. I felt alone in a house of 5 siblings, dad and stepmom. I started having night terrors around age six …screaming fits…where curtains torn down and no memory of walking in my sleep turning off all the lights…or talking to people who weren
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