Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe that the answer to many of your questions is about holding onto power, by politicians, large businesses. I believe employment figures are a small part of that equation. There are people with concerns about ecology and social justice but it is difficult to implement such changes if it means losing votes and/or government. Just my 2c. Meryl thnk about this credit card companies charge huge rates (rich get richer) and penalties. Why? Well this promotes the use of telemarketers to keep poor people employed. So instead of asking yourself why do these companies do what they do, often its not about the rational reason but to keep world going and keeping them rich also I have more conspiracies about , fm radio. Fm radio is intentionally bad because it promote the use of paid satelite. The same companies that have stake in fm radio have stake in paid satelite and breaking up the demographics is better then losing it to free internet .More conspiracies? You bet I am at a point in life where I now believe the world is one great conspiracy. We salt our foods to such an extent so people automatically get sick? A whopping 30plus percent with high blood pressure yet the choices for alternatives is hardly promoted, like say a recall for a malfunctioning part in a car seat which gets immediate air time We pollute the air to such an extent, we not only kill our own people and poison the water but we are killing the planet slowly and why?  More importantly why so little said, Asthma and related illnesses keep doctors and nurses and pharmacy buzzing. Its almost too amazing to consider why so little is said, but a baseball player hits 60 home runs and it front page every five minutes news..  Is it so there are jobs for the people? Cars for auto industry (giant part of economy) and doctors and nurses and technicians for the health industry, and insurance company workers for the insurance industry. If we put together better made cars with no pollution ,many auto mechanic would be out of work maybe, gas stations would or might lose billions of dollars of productivity and workers. Could it be we know what the right things to do  are but we don’t do it on purpose or we go about change VERY  slowly on purpose? Why did we support the terrorists against Russia in afganistan and now we are against them. Why doesn’t world leaders  and religious leaders go after radical Islam? Why don’t we have world conference to promote love and good families and stop hate. Sure we go after terrorists but our leaders do virtually nothing to stop the promotion of hate by governments and why? Its pretty easy to know what would make people happy or promote peace, but maybe world and religious leaders only care about world employment and that includes the promotiong of hate while leaders look away???  and can’t come up with a way to stop it?  Maybe its because of weapons productions maybe ? Yes world leaders and religious leaders can suggest a world peace coalition to stop hate by extreme elements and to promote love and united families and clean air, but then there would be no war, and war machines and people would not have work and no doctors to treat asthma or rest of myriad of symptoms from asthma, but hey this is a conspiracy. . Maybe we don’t promote the use of soy, even though most people havent tried it, or faster internet, and better FM radio, because more soy would make peoples fight against cholesterol effective, faster internet would promote too much information too fast to too many people, and better fm radio would see the demise of paid satelite radio. So the bottom line is the world is not really about doing the right things, its about doing things that will keep people employed. Maybe sick and dying also but employed none the less. So next time after you put your last dollars in that promising stock and the stock automatically tanks,(like it usually does) don’t ask why? Its suppose to happen that way. This is a freaking world conspiracy  Are you telling me we can’t do more for better air and AIDS education? Of course but then again this slowly keeps the poor population from overwhelming everything and so maybe this is also the intended plan. The more I think about why people do what they do, I am inclined to believe  its for one  reason; employment. Employment and not necessarily to do the right thing. If we really cared about catching terrorists and criminals we could put up more cameras, but we don’t , because police catch criminals and need jobs!  The point is we do use cameras sometimes, but we don’t want to do it so well that we stop crime or terrorists so it seems so we can produce more weapons. So in a way our leaders and world conspiracy keeps it going.

Like the Pope said!! ;o)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am at a point in life where I now believe the world is one great conspiracy. We salt our foods to such an extent so people automatically get sick? Or a whopping 30plus percent with high blood pressure yet the choices for alternatives is hardly promoted , like say a recall for a malfunctioning part in a car seat which gets immediate air time We pollute the air to such an extend , we not only kill our own people and poison the water but we are killing the planet slowly and why and more importantly why so little said,? Its almost too amazing to consider.  Is it so there are jobs for the people? Cars for auto industry and doctors and nurses and technicians for the health industry, and insurance company workers for the insurance industry. If we put together better made cars with no pollution , auto mechanic would be out of work, gas stations would or might lose billions of dollars of productivity . Could it be we know what the right things to do but we don’t do it on purpose or we go about change very slowly on purpose? Why did we support the terrorists against Russia in afganistan and now we are against them. Why doesn’t world leaders go after radical Islam? Its pretty easy to know what would make people happy or promote peace, but maybe world leaders only care about world employment. Yes world leaders and religious leaders can suggest a world peace coalition to stop hate by extreme elements and to promote love and united families and clean air, but then there would be no war, and war machines and people would not have work . Maybe we don’t promote the use of soy even though most people hasn’t tried it or have cholesterol problems .because it would put too many farmers out of work. So the bottom line is the world is not really about doing the right things, its about doing things that will keep people employed. Maybe sick and dying also but employed none the less. So next time after you put your last dollars in that promising stock and the stock automatically tanks, don’t ask why? Its suppose to happen that way.  Are you telling me we can’t do more for better air and aids education? Of course but then again this slowly keeps the poor population from overwhelming everything and so maybe this is also the pan. The more I think about why people do what they do, I am inclined to believe  its for one mulitpurposed reason. Employment and not necessarily to do the right thing. If we really cared about catching terrorists and criminals we could put up more cameras, but we don’t , because police catch criminals and need jobs!  The point is we do use cameras sometimes, but we don’t want to do it so well that we stop crime or terrorists so it seems. So in a way our leaders and world conspiracy keeps it going.

God, don’t you ever shut the fuck up? ;^)

Response:

I believe that the answer to many of your questions is about holding onto power, by politicians, large businesses. I believe employment figures are a small part of that equation. There are people with concerns about ecology and social justice but it is difficult to implement such changes if it means losing votes and/or government. Just my 2c. Meryl thnk about this

credit card companies charge huge rates (rich get richer) and penalties. Why? Well this promotes the use of telemarketers to keep poor people employed. So instead of asking yourself why do these companies do what they do, often its not about the rational reason but to keep world going and keeping them rich also I have more conspiracies about , fm radio. Fm radio is intentionally bad because it promote the use of paid satelite. The same companies that have stake in fm radio have stake in paid satelite and breaking up the demographics is better then losing it to free internet .More conspiracies? You bet I am at a point in life where I now believe the world is one great conspiracy. We salt our foods to such an extent so people automatically get sick? A whopping 30plus percent with high blood pressure yet the choices for alternatives is hardly promoted, like say a recall for a malfunctioning part in a car seat which gets immediate air time We pollute the air to such an extent, we not only kill our own people and poison the water but we are killing the planet slowly and why?  More importantly why so little said, Asthma and related illnesses keep doctors and nurses and pharmacy buzzing. Its almost too amazing to consider why so little is said, but a baseball player hits 60 home runs and it front page every five minutes news..  Is it so there are jobs for the people? Cars for auto industry (giant part of economy) and doctors and nurses and technicians for the health industry, and insurance company workers for the insurance industry. If we put together better made cars with no pollution ,many auto mechanic would be out of work maybe, gas stations would or might lose billions of dollars of productivity and workers. Could it be we know what the right things to do  are but we don’t do it on purpose or we go about change VERY  slowly on purpose? Why did we support the terrorists against Russia in afganistan and now we are against them. Why doesn’t world leaders  and religious leaders go after radical Islam? Why don’t we have world conference to promote love and good families and stop hate. Sure we go after terrorists but our leaders do virtually nothing to stop the promotion of hate by governments and why? Its pretty easy to know what would make people happy or promote peace, but maybe world and religious leaders only care about world employment and that includes the promotiong of hate while leaders look away???  and can’t come up with a way to stop it?  Maybe its because of weapons productions maybe ? Yes world leaders and religious leaders can suggest a world peace coalition to stop hate by extreme elements and to promote love and united families and clean air, but then there would be no war, and war machines and people would not have work and no doctors to treat asthma or rest of myriad of symptoms from asthma, but hey this is a conspiracy. . Maybe we don’t promote the use of soy, even though most people havent tried it, or faster internet, and better FM radio, because more soy would make peoples fight against cholesterol effective, faster internet would promote too much information too fast to too many people, and better fm radio would see the demise of paid satelite radio. So the bottom line is the world is not really about doing the right things, its about doing things that will keep people employed. Maybe sick and dying also but employed none the less. So next time after you put your last dollars in that promising stock and the stock automatically tanks,(like it usually does) don’t ask why? Its suppose to happen that way. This is a freaking world conspiracy  Are you telling me we can’t do more for better air and AIDS education? Of course but then again this slowly keeps the poor population from overwhelming everything and so maybe this is also the intended plan. The more I think about why people do what they do, I am inclined to believe  its for one  reason; employment. Employment and not necessarily to do the right thing. If we really cared about catching terrorists and criminals we could put up more cameras, but we don’t , because police catch criminals and need jobs!  The point is we do use cameras sometimes, but we don’t want to do it so well that we stop crime or terrorists so it seems so we can produce more weapons. So in a way our leaders and world conspiracy keeps it going. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I believe that the answer to many of your questions is about holding onto power, by politicians, large businesses. I believe employment figures are a small part of that equation. There are people with concerns about ecology and social justice but it is difficult to implement such changes if it means losing votes and/or government. Just my 2c. Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am at a point in life where I now believe the world is one great conspiracy. We salt our foods to such an extent so people automatically get sick? Or a whopping 30plus percent with high blood pressure yet the choices for alternatives is hardly promoted , like say a recall for a malfunctioning part in a car seat which gets immediate air time We pollute the air to such an extend , we not only kill our own people and poison the water but we are killing the planet slowly and why and more importantly why so little said,? Its almost too amazing to consider.  Is it so there are jobs for the people? Cars for auto industry and doctors and nurses and technicians for the health industry, and insurance company workers for the insurance industry. If we put together better made cars with no pollution , auto mechanic would be out of work, gas stations would or might lose billions of dollars of productivity . Could it be we know what the right things to do but we don’t do it on purpose or we go about change very slowly on purpose? Why did we support the terrorists against Russia in afganistan and now we are against them. Why doesn’t world leaders go after radical Islam? Its pretty easy to know what would make people happy or promote peace, but maybe world leaders only care about world employment. Yes world leaders and religious leaders can suggest a world peace coalition to stop hate by extreme elements and to promote love and united families and clean air, but then there would be no war, and war machines and people would not have work . Maybe we don’t promote the use of soy even though most people hasn’t tried it or have cholesterol problems .because it would put too many farmers out of work. So the bottom line is the world is not really about doing the right things, its about doing things that will keep people employed. Maybe sick and dying also but employed none the less. So next time after you put your last dollars in that promising stock and the stock automatically tanks, don’t ask why? Its suppose to happen that way.  Are you telling me we can’t do more for better air and aids education? Of course but then again this slowly keeps the poor population from overwhelming everything and so maybe this is also the pan. The more I think about why people do what they do, I am inclined to believe  its for one mulitpurposed reason. Employment and not necessarily to do the right thing. If we really cared about catching terrorists and criminals we could put up more cameras, but we don’t , because police catch criminals and need jobs!  The point is we do use cameras sometimes, but we don’t want to do it so well that we stop crime or terrorists so it seems. So in a way our leaders and world conspiracy keeps it going.

Response:

I am at a point in life where I now believe the world is one great conspiracy. We salt our foods to such an extent so people automatically get sick? Or a whopping 30plus percent with high blood pressure yet the choices for alternatives is hardly promoted , like say a recall for a malfunctioning part in a car seat which gets immediate air time We pollute the air to such an extend , we not only kill our own people and poison the water but we are killing the planet slowly and why and more importantly why so little said,? Its almost too amazing to consider.  Is it so there are jobs for the people? Cars for auto industry and doctors and nurses and technicians for the health industry, and insurance company workers for the insurance industry. If we put together better made cars with no pollution , auto mechanic would be out of work, gas stations would or might lose billions of dollars of productivity . Could it be we know what the right things to do but we don’t do it on purpose or we go about change very slowly on purpose? Why did we support the terrorists against Russia in afganistan and now we are against them. Why doesn’t world leaders go after radical Islam? Its pretty easy to know what would make people happy or promote peace, but maybe world leaders only care about world employment. Yes world leaders and religious leaders can suggest a world peace coalition to stop hate by extreme elements and to promote love and united families and clean air, but then there would be no war, and war machines and people would not have work . Maybe we don’t promote the use of soy even though most people hasn’t tried it or have cholesterol problems .because it would put too many farmers out of work. So the bottom line is the world is not really about doing the right things, its about doing things that will keep people employed. Maybe sick and dying also but employed none the less. So next time after you put your last dollars in that promising stock and the stock automatically tanks, don’t ask why? Its suppose to happen that way.  Are you telling me we can’t do more for better air and aids education? Of course but then again this slowly keeps the poor population from overwhelming everything and so maybe this is also the pan. The more I think about why people do what they do, I am inclined to believe  its for one mulitpurposed reason. Employment and not necessarily to do the right thing. If we really cared about catching terrorists and criminals we could put up more cameras, but we don’t , because police catch criminals and need jobs!  The point is we do use cameras sometimes, but we don’t want to do it so well that we stop crime or terrorists so it seems. So in a way our leaders and world conspiracy keeps it going.

Response:

Question:

There is a new drug in the pipeline called Xolair. It is an anti IgE drug. It works like this: Xolair is a monoclonal antibody and the first agent to specifically target IgE. By binding to IgE antibodies, Xolair prevents IgE from attaching to mast cells. Without IgE bound to mast cells, allergens will not cause the release of chemical mediators such as histamine and leukotrienes, which lead to the symptoms and inflammation of allergic asthma It’s being used to treat asthma and allergic rhinitis. Could it be beneficial to treating sinusitis? I don’t know much about IgE but I remember being told years ago that my level was very high.

Response:

I too had high hopes of Xolair, suffering from asthma, allergies and sinusitis, all pretty badly. However, I missed out on the trials, and was just last week told (by world-famous immunologist; so guess he must be right) that Xolair couldn’t help me because my total IgE, at 2330, was ‘off the scale’ too high. They apparently have to titrate it against your own personal IgE level, and there’s an upper limit to the doseage. However, same immunologist told me that the _real_ magic bullet is also in the pipeline, some drug called roflumilast, for allergy and asthma and COPD, plus related problems like sinusitis. Two years off licensing, he thought, so something else to hope for . I’ve looked it up, but am about two post-grad degrees away from being able to understand how it works…! Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

There is a new drug in the pipeline called Xolair. It is an anti IgE drug. It works like this: Xolair is a monoclonal antibody and the first agent to specifically target IgE. By binding to IgE antibodies, Xolair prevents IgE from attaching to mast cells. Without IgE bound to mast cells, allergens will not cause the release of chemical mediators such as histamine and leukotrienes, which lead to the symptoms and inflammation of allergic asthma It’s being used to treat asthma and allergic rhinitis. Could it be beneficial to treating sinusitis? I don’t know much about IgE but I remember being told years ago that my level was very high.

Response:

"Chriss" <suf…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:and0uv$cp79a$1@ID-149325.news.dfncis.de…

However, same immunologist told me that the _real_ magic bullet is also in the pipeline, some drug called roflumilast, for allergy and asthma and COPD, plus

related

problems like sinusitis. Two years off licensing, he thought, so something else to hope for . I’ve looked it up, but am about two post-grad

degrees

away from being able to understand how it works…! Chris

Well, that would be nice if true. A real "magic bullet" to cure us. How is it supposed to work? Is it also anti-IgE?

Response:

Question:

Is this the same as the Ent Sol tip that is sold in Canada? Neil

Response:

On Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:35:18 GMT, "neil tupper" <neil_tup…@hotmail.com

wrote:

Is this the same as the Ent Sol tip that is sold in Canada?

No.

Response:

The Grossan tip is sold to fit the Water Pik and the Interplak. Check with your insurance to see if they re imburse for the Hydro Pulse complete device Insurance code is Use HCFA K0183 They ask for medical necessity and usually accept one of these from your doctor: Medical Necessity for Hydro Pulse:       Failed Medical Treatment         To Avoid Further Medication or Treatment         Delivery System for Antibiotics Or Antifungal            Medications          Chronic Sinusitis         Cystic Fibrosis         Chronic Lung Condition         Treat Asthma Trigger Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm

Response:

The ENTSOL people (www.entsolwash.com) do sell a nasal irrigation tip for use on a Waterpik, as well as their unusually shaped squeeze bottle. Their Waterpik tip I have only seen in a photo on their web site, but from what I recall, it looks very similar to the Grossan tip. There are other companies that make them as well, such as Ethicare (www.ethicare.com) and others. I think they are all very similar. Some have a stainless steel shaft, which would probably make them more durable than the plastic ones. "neil tupper" <neil_tup…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:qYNg9.328865$f05.17024351@news1.calgary.shaw.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Is this the same as the Ent Sol tip that is sold in Canada? Neil

Response:

" MS" <m…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:uoam6dpqkq5nd4@corp.supernews.com…

Some have a stainless steel shaft, which would probably make them more durable than the plastic ones.

While not disagreeing with this, I’ve never had any problems with, no seen any complaints about, the shafts on the attachments.  I suspect the plastic shaft will outlast several of the WaterPics.

Response:

Question:

….this year’s Tour de France the next time you have an urge to point out how European sports-aficionado’s excrement doesn’t stink. American cycling fans would never behave like that!  :^) Zane

Response:

I’ll bite. What happened ? Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -….this year’s Tour de France the next time you have an urge to point out how European sports-aficionado’s excrement doesn’t stink. American cycling fans would never behave like that!  :^) Zane

Response:

I’ll bite. What happened ? Ken

the Frogs are lining the roadways yelling at Armstrong that he is doping to increase his performance.

Response:

Lance Armstrong has been tested every which way. This is just like the Brits being unable to win at Wimbledon. With friends like the damn French, who needs enemies ? If the Soviets had ever launched the big ones, I’d be in favor of us launching a few at Paris. Mon Dieu ! Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll bite. What happened ? Ken the Frogs are lining the roadways yelling at Armstrong that he is doping to increase his performance.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll bite. What happened ? Ken the Frogs are lining the roadways yelling at Armstrong that he is doping to increase his performance.

Even tho he has NEVER tested positive for anything.

Response:

I guess you couldn’t see that far. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll bite. What happened ? Ken ….this year’s Tour de France the next time you have an urge to point out how European sports-aficionado’s excrement doesn’t stink. American cycling fans would never behave like that!  :^) Zane

– John Pflum, Jr. PKG Consultants, Inc. 5533 Fair Lane Cincinnati, Ohio   45227 513/272-5533 Web: http://www.pkgconsult.com

Response:

I’ll bite. What happened ? Ken the Frogs are lining the roadways yelling at Armstrong that he is doping to increase his performance.

What _some_ of the French people are doing to Armstrong is dispicable, unfair and absolutely juvenile.  So, don’t stoop to their level by calling such names. What I don’t get is, why would anyone think that Armstrong, after all he’s been through with prostate cancer, would purposely take something that is harmful and would have a lasting adverse affect on his body. The guy wasn’t even given a 50% chance of surviving, for crying out loud, let alone competing again at the world class level.  Why in the world would someone like that put something harmful in his body on purpose?? What they’re forgetting is that he has a big heart, perhaps the biggest heart of them all, literally.  I read that his heart is about a third bigger than the heart that would normally be in a man’s body his size.

Response:

the Frogs are lining the roadways yelling at Armstrong that he is doping to increase his performance.

Those who did yell at him should have been a little bit drunk, I think. I agree to say they’re just stupid people. But if you think only of GOLF : It seems they were just like all the golf fans you meet on some courses (tank top, beer in hand,…). The point is that this kind of golf fan doesn’t exist (or at least, is very rare) on one side of the Atlantic. Guess wich one ? LOL !!!!

Response:

Lance Armstrong has been tested every which way. This is just like the Brits being unable to win at Wimbledon.

Ken, Not a very reasonable statement for two very good reasons. 1. Lance Armstrong is so far ahead and so good that he will never be caught unless he falls off and breaks a leg. 2. There is no Brit (as you term us) capable of winning Wimbledon not now, nor in the forseeable future. Brits aren’t screaming for Henman to win  or at the opposition to lose because they may be on drugs, but merely because our media need to sell their products and they hype up an inferior (relative) player. There were also no US players present in the men’s latter stages for the first time in 80 years. No one to dominate the sport like Armstrong! JPW

Response:

What they’re forgetting is that he has a big heart, perhaps the biggest heart of them all, literally.  I read that his heart is about a third bigger than the heart that would normally be in a man’s body his size.

That’s not necessarily a good thing. Myocardial hypertrophy (enlarged heart), for example  in it’s various forms, is deadly to anyone athletic. Rob

Response:

I’m confident that he has skin thick enough for that.  Unfortunately, the sport has had a good share of problems with "chemical additives" for better performance.  Tough situation for a sport where the top man in the biggest race of the year, and quite probably the toughest athletic contest out there only gets $330,000(roughly) as 1st place prize money.  I know there are contract perks, sponsor perks, etc, but Els got just over $1million for the British Open win.  I’m telling my son to get into golf. The restrictions in the TDF about what’s swimming in your bloodstream is pretty extensive.  You can’t even pee caffine above what you’d get in a cup or two per day-and this in an event where one of the oldest sponsors is a coffee company. Mon Dieu indeed! John(damned impressed to see Lance win again!)

Response:

Lance Armstrong has been tested every which way. This is just like the Brits being unable to win at Wimbledon. Snip

Where do Brits and Wimbledon come in to this argument?

Response:

    (snip) The restrictions in the TDF about what’s swimming in your bloodstream is pretty extensive.  You can’t even pee caffine above what you’d get in a cup or two per day-and this in an event where one of the oldest sponsors is a coffee company.

Galdeano (sp?), who wore the yellow jersey for awhile, tested for a stimulant that would have gotten him banned from other competitions.  The Tour apparently cleared him to take it since he had a prescription for it to treat asthma, even though the amount in his system was slightly above even their limits. (The "discovery" of performance related asthma in athletes has sure been a boon for some, and asthma occurs in athletes at an astounding rate.  Their physicians say so, so it must be so. ) Zane

Response:

What they’re forgetting is that he has a big heart, perhaps the biggest heart of them all, literally.  I read that his heart is about a third bigger than the heart that would normally be in a man’s body his size. That’s not necessarily a good thing. Myocardial hypertrophy (enlarged heart), for example  in it’s various forms, is deadly to anyone athletic. Rob

I see, I see.  Man, the things I learn from this place

Response:

Lance Armstrong has been tested every which way. This is just like the Brits being unable to win at Wimbledon. With friends like the damn French, who needs enemies ? If the Soviets had ever launched the big ones, I’d be in favor of us launching a few at Paris.

That’s unfair on Paris.  It is a lovely and remarkable city.   What you should advocate is those bombs that don’t destroy real estate. Neutron bombs, is it? And if they ever develop a gender-specific one, so les filles are saved —  then we’ve got some weapon!

Response:

That’s unfair on Paris.  It is a lovely and remarkable city.   What you should advocate is those bombs that don’t destroy real estate. Neutron bombs, is it? And if they ever develop a gender-specific one, so les filles are saved —  then we’ve got some weapon!

Actually Randy Newman got it right: "We’ll save Australia Don’t wanna hurt no kangaroo We’ll  build an all American amusement park there They got surfin too!" Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd

Response:

"We’ll save Australia Don’t wanna hurt no kangaroo We’ll  build an all American amusement park there They got surfin too!"

And we’ve got … MacDonalds, Pizza Hut, Wendys, Burger King, KFC … IBM, Microsoft, GM, Ford, Apple … Levis, Wrangler, Adidas … Friends, ER, LA Law, The Simpsons, Sex and the City, The Osbournes, CSI, Smallville, Frasier, Six Feet Under, Young and the Restless … Oprah, Jerry, Rikki, Judge Judy  … Seaworld, Movieworld … Basketball, Nascars, Drags … not to mention Taylor Made, Callaway, Titleist and Nike (again). It *is* an All-American theme park! Question is … who’s gonna save us from you? Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

I have often wondered why the Americans have always seemed to be better in the mountains than in the flats.  I’m not just talking about Lance and Greg, but most of the lesser known Americans are better in the mountains as well.

Response:

It’s probably at least 98% correlated to aerobic conditioning, strength and training and less than 2% correlated to nationality or place of birth. Haven’t these cheesy generalizations about skin color, nationality, country of origin, etc. to explain results…gone on way too long? I suppose the new secret for golf success is having Thai blood flowing in your veins – sigh! I have often wondered why the Americans have always seemed to be better in the mountains than in the flats.  I’m not just talking about Lance and Greg, but most of the lesser known Americans are better in the mountains as

well.

Response:

What they’re forgetting is that he has a big heart, perhaps the biggest heart of them all, literally.  I read that his heart is about a third bigger than the heart that would normally be in a man’s body his size. That’s not necessarily a good thing. Myocardial hypertrophy (enlarged heart), for example  in it’s various forms, is deadly to anyone athletic. I see, I see.  Man, the things I learn from this place

So maybe Lance Armstrong is the Secretariat of cycling.  Secretariat had a heart that was twice the normal size and died at age 17 (early for a horse) — although its death was not heart related. Secretariat and Lance just have bigger motors — plus Lance works just as hard as the other cyclists, which is necessary to take advantage of his motor. I like that commercial he did a few years ago, which had him narrating over an image of him cycling:  "People ask me what I’m on that makes me such a strong cyclist.  What am I on?  I’m on my bike, busting my hump for six hours a day." Doug —  ___,  Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer  o    IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont           |   |    Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752                |  /                                                                |    .   My homepage:  http://doug.obscurestuff.com                  (|)

Response:

It’s probably at least 98% correlated to aerobic conditioning, strength and training and less than 2% correlated to nationality or place of birth.

I am not thinking of a reason for that 2% here. Haven’t these cheesy generalizations about skin color, nationality, country of origin, etc. to explain results…gone on way too long?

But Americans might be relatively better in the mountains because of training issues, early opportunities to do mountain racing, which other sports they are familiar with (they tend to throw basketballs baseball style), etc.  Or it could be that the representative sample is small enough that it is a coincidence that the ones I am familiar with are good in the mountains – especially living in Colorado, most of the lesser known cyclists that I know have biked around here.

Response:

So maybe Lance Armstrong is the Secretariat of cycling.  Secretariat had a heart that was twice the normal size and died at age 17 (early for a horse) — although its death was not heart related.

People said that Indurain was built to win with no competition, before Armstrong. Secretariat had LOTS of ways he was just better than the competition.

Response:

Question:

The reasons for its declining popularity are strictly pharmacologic and not the result of finances. And the ‘reason’ we should believe you are .. right .. this time .. is .. ?

Because he knows what he is talking about?  Because he is an actual medical doctor who treats asthma?  Because the information to confirm his statements can be verified very easily? — "What Sept. 11 did was remind us that there are times when we must fight for our country, that, indeed, there are things – our liberty, our democracy, our belief in human rights and human dignity – worth fighting for." Newsday.com editorial – 27 May 2002

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most asthmatics, by definition, are chronic sufferers, who have acute incidents; theophylline does not indicate for the treatment of chronic ashtma, and doesn’t appear to be prescribed here for ashtma. I think theophylline is more of an "old school" drug for asthma. 15 or so years ago I took theo on a regular basis, now I take Singulair. Singulair has less side effects, but doesn’t work as well (imo). Saw a   show the other day speaking to this very fact. Renaming .. implementing ‘new’ drugs because the old patents have run out .. and the drugs not being as good as the old .. All comes down to the bucks ..

There certainly is no shortage if underhanded drug company shenanigans to look at. This is not one of them. The reason for the preference of leukotriene agents (Singulair, Accolate), steroids (many), and mast cell stabilizers (Intal, Tilade) has to do both with the reduced side effects and the current thinking that calls for control inflammation rather than just bronchodilation. Theophylline can have severe, occasionally life threatening, side effects requiring regular monitoring of blood levels making it inconvenient and not as cheap as it seems as well as the cost of drug monitoring must be included in the price of the drug. It is still used, more commonly in COPD, and not always as a last result. It certainly is not reserved for emergency treatment, this is actually where it is least useful. The reasons for its declining popularity are strictly pharmacologic and not the result of finances. — CBI, MD

Response:

The reasons for its declining popularity are strictly pharmacologic and not the result of finances.

And the ‘reason’ we should believe you are .. right .. this time .. is .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

Theophylline .. the premiere drug used to treat asthma . IN which country?

Jeez .. I’m not UP .. on the countries .. but a search of Medline would show exactly how much it is being used .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

ISP boots Timmy http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=aaed2aa8.0206070840.7c899a28%40po sting.google.com&output=gplain Deadlink http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Forbidden You don’t have permission to access /~watchman on this server. Who doesn’t hate ya watchman. Rusty — Timmy! http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/southpark/timmay/ Timmy Hennessy http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MPFTPPW837270.1905787037%40anonym ous.poster&output=gplain

Response:

Jeez .. I’m not UP .. on the countries .. but a search of Medline would show exactly how much it is being used ..

Well, I look in BNP, the definitive formulary in the UK, and it is only indicated for ‘Severe acute ashtma’ Most asthmatics, by definition, are chronic sufferers, who have acute incidents; theophylline does not indicate for the treatment of chronic ashtma, and doesn’t appear to be prescribed here for ashtma. The most common ashtma drugs udes in the UK are salbutamol (albuterol) and belometasone diproprionate. Also used are trademarked drugs pulmicort, simbicort, bricanil, flixotide, intal and serevent. Other drugs are available, such as Ventide and other combinations, but they are felt to be les suitable for prescription, however, Simbicort is felt to give good control, and is gaining respect as a general preventer drug. — Dr Paul Cummins – Internet Engineer      |  /"    ASCII RIBBON Tel: 07050 605150  Fax: 07092 105150     +   /      CAMPAIGN Email: paul(at)gst-group.co.uk           |   X   AGAINST HTML MAIL                                          |  /    AND POSTINGS

Response:

Is the denial based on a formulary I thought this was just a VA thing formulary or non-formulary. I have to fight them all the time on drugs based on this.

I have a Managed Care Health Plan and we have the formulary/non-formulary thing. I think that this is common with most Managed Care Plans and HMO type plans. sue

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeez .. I’m not UP .. on the countries .. but a search of Medline would show exactly how much it is being used .. Well, I look in BNP, the definitive formulary in the UK, and it is only indicated for ‘Severe acute ashtma’ Most asthmatics, by definition, are chronic sufferers, who have acute incidents; theophylline does not indicate for the treatment of chronic ashtma, and doesn’t appear to be prescribed here for ashtma. The most common ashtma drugs udes in the UK are salbutamol (albuterol) and belometasone diproprionate. Also used are trademarked drugs pulmicort, simbicort, bricanil, flixotide, intal and serevent. Other drugs are available, such as Ventide and other combinations, but they are felt to be les suitable for prescription, however, Simbicort is felt to give good control, and is gaining respect as a general preventer drug.

Thanks for the refresher .. I’ll have to do some reading when I get some free time .. A search of the above with .. ‘iron’ ..or  viscosity  will bring up something .. I’ll bet .. But that is ‘just a theory’ .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

Most asthmatics, by definition, are chronic sufferers, who have acute incidents; theophylline does not indicate for the treatment of chronic ashtma, and doesn’t appear to be prescribed here for ashtma.

I think theophylline is more of an "old school" drug for asthma. 15 or so years ago I took theo on a regular basis, now I take Singulair. Singulair has less side effects, but doesn’t work as well (imo).

Response:

Most asthmatics, by definition, are chronic sufferers, who have acute incidents; theophylline does not indicate for the treatment of chronic ashtma, and doesn’t appear to be prescribed here for ashtma. I think theophylline is more of an "old school" drug for asthma. 15 or so years ago I took theo on a regular basis, now I take Singulair. Singulair has less side effects, but doesn’t work as well (imo).

Saw a   show the other day speaking to this very fact. Renaming .. implementing ‘new’ drugs because the old patents have run out .. and the drugs not being as good as the old .. All comes down to the bucks .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

Personally I would follow up on the latest studies which show elevated iron levels in the body to be closely linked to more and more disease. Asthma has been shown to be closely linked ot hyperviscosity .. thick blood.  

Lower levels iron in children with recurrent respiratory infections http://www.mdheal.org/immune.htm IMMUNE POWER FOR KIDS BY LEO GALLAND, M.D. Asthma, allergic rhinitis, chronic otitis media and sinusitis are increasing at frightening rates among children in the United States. There are several measures that parents can take to effectively reverse this trend. These measures are supported by scientific research and have been very effective in my own clinical practice. Children with recurrent respiratory infections have lower blood levels of zinc, iron and vitamin A than do children without recurrent infection. Adequate intakes of zinc and iron can be difficult to obtain from food, even when the diet is better than average. For young children I recommend a preventive daily supplement supplying ten milligrams each of zinc and of iron and twenty-five hundred units of vitamin A; adolescents need twice the dose. Because zinc and iron interfere with each other’s absorption and because iron causes oxidation of vitamin E, children who are not doing well with a multivitamin/mineral pill should take separate doses of zinc, iron and vitamin E at different times of the day. FERGUS

Response:

Is the denial based on a formulary

I thought this was just a VA thing formulary or non-formulary. I have to fight them all the time on drugs based on this.

Response:

Personally I would follow up on the latest studies which show elevated iron levels in the body to be closely linked to more and more disease. Asthma has been shown to be closely linked ot hyperviscosity .. thick blood.  

http://www.drhull.com/EncyMaster/I/iron_deficiency.html Iron Deficiency Iron deficiency is regrettably a common mineral deficiency of early childhood. Symptoms include poor appetite, weight loss, irritability, increased susceptibility to infections, and finally, anemia and pale appearance. Since the first four symptoms are rather nonspecific and common to many kids in the 15-18 month age range anyway, the diagnosis is often missed early on. Anemia doesn’t occur until the total body store of iron is quite low, since carrying oxygen to the tissues is the top priority of all. It is now thought that the more severe cases of iron deficiency may suffer permanent brain injury with loss of ultimate IQ points, so this is not a trivial issue. Iron deficiency is unusual in full term first born children , in breast fed infants especially if supplemented with iron, or in children fed iron-fortified formula. Children at risk are thus premature babies, bottle fed infants on low or no iron formulas or (heaven forfend) whole cow milk in early infancy (or later on if the intake of cow milk is excessive – see milk baby). A woman has quite a number of years to store up iron in her bone marrow before having her first child. During the third trimester, the fetus loads up iron stores from the mother’s supply. Thus iron deficiency is unusual in term first borns because mother’s iron stores are generally adequate for the first pregnancy. For the same reason, premature babies are routinely supplemented with iron. However, early resumption of menstruation (and sometimes mother’s reluctance to stay on her iron supplement) may lead to a situation of relative iron deficiency in the mother by the time of the next conception. Thus the second or third born child is at a somewhat higher risk for iron deficiency. The type of milk in the child’s diet is important as regards the child’s iron status, too. Cow milk binds iron tightly to itself and most of the iron, even in iron fortified formula, is bound to stool protein residues that aren’t absorbed. Thus another risk factor stems from the persistent mythology about iron in infant formulas. Every ill conceivable in babies gets blamed on the iron in the formula at one time or another. Of course, this is mythology and nothing more. There have been numerous scientific studies that have proven that the tiny amount of iron in infant formula (1.8 milligrams per 5 ounces of formula) produces absolutely no symptoms in the babies whatsoever except health. It is highly inadvisable to feed your baby low iron or iron free formula. I personally would consider suspect the judgement of a physician who recommended prolonged feeding of iron-poor formula or who advised whole cow milk to young infants. Breast fed babies are lucky. Whereas the majority of a bottle fed baby’s iron intake winds up in the diaper because it isn’t absorbed, mother’s milk contains a special protein, lactoferrin, which binds up whatever iron is in the breast milk and transfers it into the baby’s system with minimal loss in the stool. Note as well that iron deficiency does not occur solely in infancy. Older children can suffer its effects as well. Recent research1 has identified the possibility of lower academic function in iron deficient school age children, especially adolescent girls. 1. Pediatrics 2001;107,1381-1386. FERGUS

Response:

Personally I would follow up on the latest studies which show elevated iron levels in the body to be closely linked to more and more disease. Asthma has been shown to be closely linked ot hyperviscosity .. thick blood.  

Iron, Vitamin A and Vitamin D levels in Auckland Infants http://tomaiora.auckland.ac.nz/current.html 1. Iron, Vitamin A and Vitamin D levels in Auckland Infants Aged 6-23 months (Sue Crengle) This is a collaborative project involving Dr. Cameron Grant (Principal Investigator, Department of Paediatrics), Dr. Clare Wall (Massey University) Dr. Colin Tukuitonga and Dr. Sue Crengle (Department of Maori and Pacific Health). Funding for the full project was obtained from the Health Research Council of New Zealand following successful completion of a pilot project. Why are these things important? Low iron, Vitamin A and Vitamin D levels are associated with a number of serious illnesses which are common in our children. Low vitamin A levels are associated with more severe measles illnesses, low Vitamin D levels are associated more severe pneumonia and low iron levels are associated with higher rates of infections. All these illnesses are common in New Zealand children, particularly in Maori and Pacific children. Low iron levels are also associated with poor growth and problems learning. We have no information about how common iron, vitamin A and Vitamin D deficiency is in New Zealand infants. Once we know if these deficiencies are common, we can (if needed) put some programmes into place which will help to increase the iron and Vitamin A and D levels of our children. If these deficiencies are not common, we need do no more. The purpose of the study is to determine the prevalence of iron, vitamin A and Vitamin D deficiency in Auckland Infants. We also wish to investigate a range of factors (including nutrition factors) which may play a role in iron and Vitamin A and D deficiency. The study involves two interviews, a weighed food diary extending over two days, measurement of the infants height and weight, and a blood test for the infant. Please contact Sue Crengle for further information. FERGUS

Response:

Personally I would follow up on the latest studies which show elevated iron levels in the body to be closely linked to more and more disease. Asthma has been shown to be closely linked ot hyperviscosity .. thick blood.  

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/anaemiairon.htm Anaemia due to iron deficiency Reviewed by Dr Rachel Green, consultant haematologist and Dr Patrick Davey, cardiologist What is anaemia? Anaemia is a deficiency of red blood cells, which can lead to a lack of oxygen-carrying ability, causing unusual tiredness and other symptoms. The deficiency occurs either through the reduced production or an increased loss of red blood cells. These cells are manufactured in the bone marrow and have a life expectancy of approximately four months. To produce red blood cells, the body needs (among other things) iron, vitamin B12 and folic acid. If there is a lack of one or more of these ingredients anaemia will develop. What are red blood cells? Red blood cells are made in the bone marrow and circulate in the blood. Through its pumping action, the heart propels the blood around the body through the arteries. The red blood cells obtain oxygen in the lungs and carry it to all the body’s cells. The cells use the oxygen to fuel the combustion (burning) of sugar and fat which produces the body’s energy. During this process called oxidation, carbon dioxide is created as a waste product. It binds itself to the red blood cells that have delivered their load of oxygen. The carbon dioxide is then transported back to the lungs where it is exchanged for fresh oxygen by breathing. What causes iron deficiency? Most cases of iron deficiency in children are caused by eating a poor diet containing little iron. In adults, however it is most commonly caused by losing blood faster than the body can remake it. A lack of iron in the diet is common in vegetarians because the main general dietary source is red meat. Babies can develop iron deficiency, especially if they have been born prematurely. Their storage of iron is usually not completed until the final stages of pregnancy. An increased need for iron arises when a large amount of cell divisions occur, such as during pregnancy, and during periods of rapid childhood growth. Reduced absorption from the intestine of iron can be caused by diseases of the small intestine such as gluten intolerance (coeliac sprue) or Crohn’s disease (inflammation of the intestine). Always consult a doctor for unexplained iron deficiency. The cause could be small ruptures in the intestine due to cancer or polyps (small growths). Ulcers in the stomach and duodenum can also lead to iron deficiency anaemia. This loss of blood from the digestive tract may be so slight as to be undetected on its own. Iron deficiency is more frequent in women who smoke, eat a diet low in iron and have heavy periods. What are the symptoms of anaemia due to iron deficiency? . If a person is otherwise healthy, symptoms seldom appear before the haemoglobin (red pigment) drops below 10g/dl. . The first symptoms will be tiredness and palpitations (awareness of the heartbeat). . Shortness of breath and dizziness is common. . If the anaemia is severe, angina (chest pain), headache and leg pains (intermittent claudication) can occur. Besides the general symptoms of anaemia there will be unique symptoms in pronounced and long-term cases of iron deficiency. These will be especially noticeable in the tongue and throat and include: . a burning sensation in the tongue. . dryness in the mouth and throat. . sores at the corners of the mouth. . an altered sense of touch. . a smooth tongue. . in extreme cases the nails can become brittle and spoon shaped with vertical stripes and a tendency to fray. . or a ‘pica’ can arise – an insatiable craving for a specific food, eg liquorice. . brittle hair. . difficulty in swallowing. . Possible deterioration . Shortness of breath, palpitation and angina. Iron deficiency can in rare cases cause permanent changes to the mucosa (soft lining) in the throat (Plummer-Vinson syndrome). This condition is a preliminary stage to cancer. How does a doctor diagnose anaemia due to iron deficiency? First, the doctor must be sure that the patient suffers from anaemia and will probably request a blood test. With the result of the blood test, an analysis of the red blood cells will usually be included. In cases of pronounced iron deficiency the red blood cells will be small and pale. An iron deficiency can be identified by techniques that examine the proteins involved in the storage and transport of iron through the body (ferritin and transferrin). What can the doctor do to treat anaemia due to iron deficiency? . Examine the patient and prescribe appropriate treatment to deal with the causes of the illness. . Prescribe an iron supplement. Medicines . Iron preparations. Iron tablets will rapidly reverse anaemia if the underlying cause of blood loss has been treated. The tablets can irritate the stomach and should be taken after food if this is the case. Iron tablets may colour the stools black and may cause constipation or sometimes diarrhoea. What can be done to avoid anaemia . Eating a varied diet. . Good sources of iron include liver, beef, wholemeal bread, cereals, eggs and dried fruit. . A doctor should always be consulted immediately if there is loss of blood in the stools or urine. Medical advice should also be sought about persistently heavy periods. . A woman who is pregnant or planning to become pregnant, should talk to her doctor about iron supplements. Based on a text by Dr Flemming Anderson Last updated 01.02.2002 FERGUS

Response:

My 2 1/2 year old neice was diagnosed with asthma.  The specialist and her primary care physician have prescribed pulmicort.  Sadly it costs upwards of $100 and is not covered by my insurance.  Any ideas on how to get the medicine?

Is the denial based on a formulary?  If so then you should be able to fight it. — "What Sept. 11 did was remind us that there are times when we must fight for our country, that, indeed, there are things – our liberty, our democracy, our belief in human rights and human dignity – worth fighting for." Newsday.com editorial – 27 May 2002

Response:

Asthma has been shown to be closely linked ot hyperviscosity .. thick blood.

References?   Theophylline .. the premiere drug used to treat asthma .. actually has been shown to be a reducer of erythropoetin .. which makes red blood cells. Too many red blood cells causes hyperviscosity.

Have you ever bothered to find out how theo works? Since antioxidants have been shown to be of use in asthma .. and since bloodletting by acupuncture has been shown to greatly reduce the need for asthma meds ..?

Acupuncture has been shown to be ineffective as a treatment of asthma. — "What Sept. 11 did was remind us that there are times when we must fight for our country, that, indeed, there are things – our liberty, our democracy, our belief in human rights and human dignity – worth fighting for." Newsday.com editorial – 27 May 2002

Response:

My 2 1/2 year old neice was diagnosed with asthma.  The specialist and her primary care physician have prescribed pulmicort.  Sadly it costs upwards of $100 and is not covered by my insurance.  Any ideas on how to get the

medicine?  http://www.phrma.org/searchcures/dpdpap/ This site lists programs for patient assistance for prescriptions.  Also, if you do have insurance contact them immediately.  Find out why they won’t pay and dispute them.  If the medication has a similar med you can contact her doctor and see if he will call in a different one that your insurance will cover until you can get it straightened out.  Ususally if it is not in their preferred list, your doctor has to call your insurance company and verify he ordered the med and that this is the med your child needs.  I had to do this myself last week through my pharmacist and I got my med the  next day and only paid my co-pay.  If I can help please feel free to email.  UM MOM Susan

Response:

My 2 1/2 year old neice was diagnosed with asthma.  The specialist and her primary care physician have prescribed pulmicort.  Sadly it costs upwards of $100 and is not covered by my insurance.  Any ideas on how to get the medicine?

I live in the UK so can’t advise on the insurance angle.  However the cost surprises me – I asked once early this year what Pulmicort 200 would cost if not on prescription.  The answer was

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I must be one of those who doesn’t notice the effect of caffeine.  As far as I can tell, it has NO effect, and it sorta bugs me.  I can’t drink a coke to wake up in the morning, or to stay up at night.  Jolt cola doesn’t affect me, either.  As a matter of fact, the last time I tried No-Doz to stay up for a study session, it didn’t even WORK.  At one time I thought that since I drank so much pop I was simply immune to caffeine.  But, I really don’t think I have an addiction to it.  If I go without it for any period of time, I don’t get headaches, get jittery, or have any other symptoms of withdrawal. Who knows?  Maybe caffeine really DOESN’T affect everybody… Eldred My father drinks full octane java at ANY time, day or night, & never has a problem falling asleep, doesn’t get jittery, etc.  The times when he’s stopped drinking coffee, he claims not to feel the least bit different & we’ve never seen any s/s of any caffeine withdrawl. I noticed I sleep better (more deeply, less waking in the middle of the night) when I cut back the caffeine.  It doesn’t make me jittery or keep me awake, but I suppose its diuretic effect is what interrupted my getting a full night’s rest.  I never liked coffee (except its wonderful aroma), so Coke used to be my caffeinated beverage of choice. Michele

About three years ago when I used to drink a can of Coke with meals and bottled Pepsi between meals I hardly slept at all.  There was no point in laying down and trying to sleep because it just didn’t happen.  Seemed like I could only take unexpected naps (usually while watching tv).  I had no withdrawl problems when I switched to Caffeine-Free except I sure do sleep a LOT now.

Response:

I never mentioned duplicates. Please reread the sarcasm….LOL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t been getting duplicates from wuzzy. It may be your server hiccuping. Tracy Get rid of your computer virus! You post three times every post. almost forgot this month’s 1: J Appl Physiol  2002 Jun;92(6):2347-52 Caffeine-induced impairment of glucose tolerance is abolished by beta-adrenergic receptor blockade in humans. There was a discussion on that June article a couple of weeks ago.. It shows adenosine receptor has nothing to do with it..

Response:

I’ve been getting three posts for each one, also. Smiles, cosette – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t been getting duplicates from wuzzy. It may be your server hiccuping. Tracy Get rid of your computer virus! You post three times every post. almost forgot this month’s 1: J Appl Physiol  2002 Jun;92(6):2347-52 Caffeine-induced impairment of glucose tolerance is abolished by beta-adrenergic receptor blockade in humans. There was a discussion on that June article a couple of weeks ago.. It shows adenosine receptor has nothing to do with it..

Response:

I haven’t been getting duplicates from wuzzy. It may be your server hiccuping. Tracy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Get rid of your computer virus! You post three times every post. almost forgot this month’s 1: J Appl Physiol  2002 Jun;92(6):2347-52 Caffeine-induced impairment of glucose tolerance is abolished by beta-adrenergic receptor blockade in humans. There was a discussion on that June article a couple of weeks ago.. It shows adenosine receptor has nothing to do with it..

Response:

Get rid of your computer virus! You post three times every post.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – almost forgot this month’s 1: J Appl Physiol  2002 Jun;92(6):2347-52 Caffeine-induced impairment of glucose tolerance is abolished by beta-adrenergic receptor blockade in humans. There was a discussion on that June article a couple of weeks ago.. It shows adenosine receptor has nothing to do with it..

Response:

| Michael Roose has finally admitted that he is Dr. Chung.  He and Dr. | Chung I am not Chung. I was never Chung. I will never be Chung.

ah, dr. chung! you fool no one! your kung fu is weak! now, prepare to meet your destiny!                        general ‘funky chicken’ gau begun, the clone war has – yoda marriage is a great institution, some of us just haven’t gotten it right. the guilt lasts for about four or five minutes, and then you get over it. – donald trump it’s just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. all year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched tv. but then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns. and also he got a racecar. is any of this getting through to you? – fry you can’t be that short and not be mad about it all the time. – julia phillips i have always thought the actions of men the best interpreters of thier thoughts. – john locke

Response:

almost forgot this month’s 1: J Appl Physiol  2002 Jun;92(6):2347-52 Caffeine-induced impairment of glucose tolerance is abolished by beta-adrenergic receptor blockade in humans. There was a discussion on that June article a couple of weeks ago.. It shows adenosine receptor has nothing to do with it..

Response:

As for the carb/insulin relationship, Atkins says: "Cafffeine mimics the effect of sugar on blood glucose levels by stimulating insulin release. It should be avoided by those who suspect they are caffeine dependent and taken in limited quanities by others." This in relation to low carb diet, of course.

Atkins is misleading, caffeine mimics *nothing* like sugar. Nonetheless he is correct in advising against caffeine as it *causes* insulin resistance (without a doubt see below). It used to be thought that it was adenosine mediated but currently believed to be catecholamine-mediated. REFERENCES: 1)Caffeine-induced impairment of insulin action but not insulin signaling in human skeletal muscle is reduced by exercise DIABETES 51 (3): 583-590 MAR 2002 2)Caffeine can decrease insulin sensitivity in humans. Diabetes Care. 2002 Feb;25(2):364-9. PMID: 11815511 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 3)Caffeine: a cause of insulin resistance? Diabetes Care. 2002 Feb;25(2):399-400. Review. No abstract available. PMID: 11815519 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 4)Caffeine ingestion elevates plasma insulin response in humans during an oral glucose tolerance test. Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2001 Jul;79(7):559-65. PMID: 11478588 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 5)Caffeine ingestion decreases glucose disposal during a hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp in sedentary humans DIABETES 50 (10): 2349-2354 OCT 2001 6)Effect of caffeine on metabolism, exercise endurance, and catecholamine responses after withdrawal J APPL PHYSIOL 85 (4): 1493-1501 OCT 1998 7)Effects of caffeine on glucose tolerance: A placebo-controlled study EUR J CLIN NUTR 52 (11): 846-849 NOV 1998 8)Metabolic and ergogenic effects of carbohydrate and caffeine beverages in tennis J SPORT MED PHYS FIT 37 (4): 258-266 DEC 1997 9))ADENOSINE RECEPTORS MEDIATE SYNERGISTIC STIMULATION OF GLUCOSE-UPTAKE AND TRANSPORT BY INSULIN AND BY CONTRACTIONS IN RAT SKELETAL-MUSCLE J CLIN INVEST 93 (3): 974-981 MAR 1994 10)Metabolic and hormone-related responses to caffeine in rats PHARMACOL RES 32 (3): 129-133 SEP 1995 EFFECT OF CAFFEINE AND SACCHARIN ON GLUCOSE-UPTAKE AND INSULIN RELEASE IN ISOLATED RAT-TISSUE S AFR J SCI 84 (2): 136-137 FEB 1988 11)DIETARY CAFFEINE, GLUCOSE-TOLERANCE AND INSULIN SENSITIVITY IN MICE J FOOD SCI 44 (6): 1761-1764 1979 12)RESTORING EFFECT OF CAFFEINE ON DECREASED SENSITIVITY OF INSULIN SECRETORY MECHANISM IN MOUSE PANCREATIC-ISLETS DURING STARVATION ACTA ENDOCRINOL-COP 82: 24-25 Suppl. 203 1976 13)EFFECT OF CAFFEINE ON SERUM-INSULIN DURING ACUTE IV GLUCOSE LOADING IN SOME PATIENTS WITH CHEMICAL DIABETES-MELLITUS Z ERNAHRUNGSWISS 15 (2): 151-155 1976 14)INFLUENCE OF ETHANOL, CAFFEINE AND INTRAGASTRIC COOLING ON GASTRIN AND INSULIN-SECRETION IN MAN NUTR METAB 17 (6): 352-359 1974 15)EFFECTS OF COFFEE AND CAFFEINE ON CARBOHYDRATE-METABOLISM, FREE FATTY-ACID, INSULIN, GROWTH-HORMONE AND CORTISOL PLASMA-LEVELS IN MAN ACTA DIABETOL LAT 10 (5): 1069-1084 1973

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I must be one of those who doesn’t notice the effect of caffeine.  As far as I can tell, it has NO effect, and it sorta bugs me.  I can’t drink a coke to wake up in the morning, or to stay up at night.  Jolt cola doesn’t affect me, either.  As a matter of fact, the last time I tried No-Doz to stay up for a study session, it didn’t even WORK.  At one time I thought that since I drank so much pop I was simply immune to caffeine.  But, I really don’t think I have an addiction to it.  If I go without it for any period of time, I don’t get headaches, get jittery, or have any other symptoms of withdrawal. Who knows?  Maybe caffeine really DOESN’T affect everybody… Eldred

My father drinks full octane java at ANY time, day or night, & never has a problem falling asleep, doesn’t get jittery, etc.  The times when he’s stopped drinking coffee, he claims not to feel the least bit different & we’ve never seen any s/s of any caffeine withdrawl. I noticed I sleep better (more deeply, less waking in the middle of the night) when I cut back the caffeine.  It doesn’t make me jittery or keep me awake, but I suppose its diuretic effect is what interrupted my getting a full night’s rest.  I never liked coffee (except its wonderful aroma), so Coke used to be my caffeinated beverage of choice. Michele

Response:

Some people use caffeine, sometimes with ephedrine, specifically for its fat mobilizing and appetite suppressing properties. As for the carb/insulin relationship, Atkins says: "Cafffeine mimics the effect of sugar on blood glucose levels by stimulating insulin release. It should be avoided by those who suspect they are caffeine dependent and taken in limited quanities by others." This in relation to low carb diet, of course.

When the caffeine issue was discussed in asd-lc before, it was bought up that the "stalls" blamed on caffeine might have been caused by the citric acid in caffeine containing sodas as caffeine itself doesn’t stimulate insulin release. If anybody wants to experiment with this, try drinking Diet Coke one day and taking No Doze on another and see what effect both have on the ketostick. Of course this doesn’t mean that there are other reasons that some might consider cutting it out. — Ron Ritzman              |[losing fat] is like running a government                          |You have to take out more then you put in                          |– Smokey

Response:

Also passing it on to a number of other groups. Please trim headers when posting to ASD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Passing this along from the MFW newsgroup. I thought people would be interested in this: Passing this along from the MFW newsgroup. I thought people would be interested in this: Sorry folks, but these are some of the things that Michael Roose and Dr. Chung have posted on our newsgroups.  We are as upset as you are and unfortunately some of our members have also been very upset and have posted somethings that they maybe should not have. —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.diabetes Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 7:38 AM : : |Sorry, I’ve been gone for a while, but I’ve seen a lot of talk about Dr. : |Chung….who is that, and what’s his relation to diabetes? : : I am Chung. Especially in newsgroups. My hypotheses is that this is directly linked with sexual dysfunctions and, shall we say, less than appealing, rampant obesity.  Dull clitoral responses and limp penis syndrome aren’t exactly wonderful bedmates either.  :))))))) What these problems cause is irrational Usenet behaviors and, with that as an explanation, I pour out my heart to you who are so afflicted. Try a popsickle stick and adhesive tape and apply L-Arginine vigorously and directly.  "Viagra. The quicker dicker upper" Picture your smoldering carcass catapulted back to the ASD mudpile. — Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Atlanta Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com : LOL.  Good point!   Ted Rodrick Yep, I keep my spear sharp. Back for more abuse, I see.  When did your fetish for S&M start? Don’t you just hate it when you find yourself on the wrong side of a flame war? Your smoldering carcass has just been catapulted back to the ASD mud pile again.  Be sure to come back if you want more. — Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Atlanta Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com These are things that Dr. Chung has posted on our newsgroups. Michael Roose has finally admitted that he is Dr. Chung.  He and Dr. Chung have disrupted alt.support.diabetes and misc.health. diabetes and posted profanities there as well as medical information which could be very harmful to diabetics.  Both of them (as one person)  have been reported to the ADA, AMA, Georgia Board of Cardiologists, Emory University, etc. : |[ cross-posting removed.] why?

– Diva The Best Man for the Job is a Woman

Response:

With the preponderance of soda, tea and coffees as socially approved and acceptable substitutes for water, or as stimulants, I am inquiring if there are others out there In UsenetLand that have found caffeine to either be a major stumbling block to weight loss and weight control and/or as an addictive a substance as this gentleman has described. Addictive substance yes (more or less for some) but I don’t see how it can hamper weight loss or appetite control. If anything, being a stimulant, it should have the opposite effect. Some people use caffeine, sometimes with ephedrine, specifically for its fat mobilizing and appetite suppressing properties.

As for the carb/insulin relationship, Atkins says: "Cafffeine mimics the effect of sugar on blood glucose levels by stimulating insulin release. It should be avoided by those who suspect they are caffeine dependent and taken in limited quanities by others." This in relation to low carb diet, of course. —         Mac

Response:

With the preponderance of soda, tea and coffees as socially approved and acceptable substitutes for water, or as stimulants, I am inquiring if there are others out there In UsenetLand that have found caffeine to either be a major stumbling block to weight loss and weight control and/or as an addictive a substance as this gentleman has described.

Addictive substance yes (more or less for some) but I don’t see how it can hamper weight loss or appetite control. If anything, being a stimulant, it should have the opposite effect. Some people use caffeine, sometimes with ephedrine, specifically for its fat mobilizing and appetite suppressing properties. — Ron Ritzman              |[losing fat] is like running a government                          |You have to take out more then you put in                          |– Smokey

Response:

(James Teo) writes: I never advocated banning caffeine. I don’t think it is dangerous to the average person, I just think the public should be made aware that caffeine is also a drug like alcohol or nicotine and all drugs have side-efects. This doesn’t mean "don’t take it", it just means "be aware of it". Be aware that the weekly headache may be due to caffeine, be aware that you get dehydrated with caffeine, be aware that if you are hyperthyroid you are more prone to palpitations with caffeine. Also, people need to be aware that caffeine of various doses is in all sorts of things we may not realise It’s just a lesson that caffeine does affect people and people should be made aware of it. Not because it should banned or regulated but simply so that the layperson can make better decisions about their lifestyle.

I must be one of those who doesn’t notice the effect of caffeine.  As far as I can tell, it has NO effect, and it sorta bugs me.  I can’t drink a coke to wake up in the morning, or to stay up at night.  Jolt cola doesn’t affect me, either.  As a matter of fact, the last time I tried No-Doz to stay up for a study session, it didn’t even WORK.  At one time I thought that since I drank so much pop I was simply immune to caffeine.  But, I really don’t think I have an addiction to it.  If I go without it for any period of time, I don’t get headaches, get jittery, or have any other symptoms of withdrawal. Who knows?  Maybe caffeine really DOESN’T affect everybody… Eldred — Homepage – http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research.  The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted.  Details on my webpage.

Response:

| | || ||I don’t think anyone thinks caffeine is "like water" but I doubt it is ||on the level of a "dangerous substance". Physical addiction in of ||itself I don’t think means it is dangerous. It may worsen some ||pre-existing disease though, and people should be made aware of it. | |Interesting. I wonder if there are diseases that are directly caused |by caffeine? | |Well, caffeine is very similar to the compound used to treat asthma |called theophylline (both are methylxanthines), and acts on the same |target enzyme (phosphodiesterase). Theophylline is a potentially |dangerous compound in high doses and in overdose can cause ionic |imbalances in the body as well as heart rhythm disorders, seizures, |agitation, vomitting and death. Now caffeine is much much safer than |theophylline but as far as I can tell it produces some of the same |qualitative effects in most people: |- GI disturbances (diarrhoea or nausea) |- agitation |- palpitations |- sympathetic stimulation | ||Also, I think there should be some regulation on all those "energy ||drinks" like Red Bull. I sometimes take Red Bull myself and I often ||experience palpitations, but that’s something I tolerate when I need ||to be stimulated (late night on the wards, etc). | |What would be the criteria and if there are not any known pathologies |to caffeine, what would be the precedence? | |Well dehydration can be compounded by caffeine. All those kids taking |ecstasy, downing shots of vodka and redbull while dancing the night |away can proceed to severe dehydration and in one case in UK, death |has occured. Now, I don’t think one should ban vodka, redbull or |dancing so the public should be educated instead. | |I once met an Italian guy who drank 10 espressos a day, and he had |atrial fibrillation (a heart rhythm disorder). While I don’t know if |it was the cause, that much caffeine can’t have helped. | ||<Snipped the huge number of groups this was crossposted to | |Why?  And why did you keep the ones you left? | |Well, my ISP news server told me I can’t send to so many newsgroups at |once. I just removed the ones which were on the left. |Nothing more than that. Thanks James.

Response:

Caffeine has been a part of my diet for as long as I can remember.  I was brought up on tea and after marriage I graduated to Coca Cola.  After beginning WW however, I did switch to Caffeine Free Diet Coke!  It took very little time.  I do drink French Vanilla Coffee every single day, am doing it now as a matter of fact.  But mostly I drink the soda.  Whether I drink an item that has caffeine in it or is caffeine free doesn’t bother me at all. Caffeine does not help me stay awake nor does it make me jittery.  I’ve seen shows on tv where they explained how a product was made caffeine free and that worried me more than having the caffeine.  But it is true that many women cannot drink caffeine as it causes lumps in their breast tissue.

Caffeine doesn’t keep me awake, it makes me tolerable. Interestingly enough, if anybody reads the Foxtrot comic, Roger is being made to quit caffeine by his wife, Andy. It is funny… and I can totally relate. ~M’isa

Response:

Maybe when you are over 30 you may discover you have big problems with coffee or maybe you may not even know it. Put it on your tombstone maybe?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – James, for every single thing that is edible or drinkable, you can find someone somewhere who is convinced that item is bad for you!  Everything causes cancer, even water has been reported to cause it.  With all of this against us, how can we win?  Stop eating?  Naw….. Caffeine has been a part of my diet for as long as I can remember.  I was brought up on tea and after marriage I graduated to Coca Cola.  After beginning WW however, I did switch to Caffeine Free Diet Coke!  It took very little time.  I do drink French Vanilla Coffee every single day, am doing it now as a matter of fact.  But mostly I drink the soda.  Whether I drink an item that has caffeine in it or is caffeine free doesn’t bother me at all. Caffeine does not help me stay awake nor does it make me jittery.  I’ve seen shows on tv where they explained how a product was made caffeine free and that worried me more than having the caffeine.  But it is true that many women cannot drink caffeine as it causes lumps in their breast tissue. Knowing all of this, I eat what I like and drink what I like, within the boundaries of this program, naturally.  But I do not pay attention to anybody’s bad comments on a particular food product, except when someone here has tried something and says it’s good.  I’ll try it then.  Doesn’t mean I’ll like it as we all have different tastes, but I’m willing to try. Today I’m trying two new recipes!  One is for apple pie and the other is for my favorite all time veggie, squash casserole!  I had no idea I could have these as the casserole has cheese in it, but hey, I’ve got the fat free kind so I’m trying it today I recently engaged in a very compelling conversation with someone who had quit smoking and caffeine at the same time.  He claimed that caffeine was much more difficult to curb his appetite for.  He also indicated his diet was never under his control until he removed the excessive caffeine intake. With the preponderance of soda, tea and coffees as socially approved and acceptable substitutes for water, or as stimulants, I am inquiring if there are others out there In UsenetLand that have found caffeine to either be a major stumbling block to weight loss and weight control and/or as an addictive a substance as this gentleman has described. Is caffeine a missed frontier in our efforts to inform the public of the dangers in the typical American and international diet?  Is Starbucks nothing more than a present day Moloko bar? I find that based on my personal experience caffeine does fulfil most of the criteria for physical dependence: – need for increasing doses of caffeine to achieve the same result – withdrawal periods when without caffeine. However, I don’t have a psychological addiction, as I have little problems taking holidays from caffeine regularly (I do it so that I keep myself sensitised when I do need caffeine on late nights). I don’t think anyone thinks caffeine is "like water" but I doubt it is on the level of a "dangerous substance". Physical addiction in of itself I don’t think means it is dangerous. It may worsen some pre-existing disease though, and people should be made aware of it. Also, I think there should be some regulation on all those "energy drinks" like Red Bull. I sometimes take Red Bull myself and I often experience palpitations, but that’s something I tolerate when I need to be stimulated (late night on the wards, etc). <Snipped the huge number of groups this was crossposted to

Response:

Today I’m trying two new recipes!  One is for apple pie and the other is for my favorite all time veggie, squash casserole!  I had no idea I could have these as the casserole has cheese in it, but hey, I’ve got the fat free kind so I’m trying it today

Now all we need is a way to dispose of all of the extra zucchini that end up in backyard gardens.  I think that if we gave just 6 seeds to every starving person in the world it would only take harvesting the first crop to solve the problem. So print the darn casserole recipe, would ya? Sorry, got off on a tangent.  But I will not, repeat not, be the recipient of any more zucchini from a poorly planned and executed back yard garden/gardner this year.  How does any seed company expect a single family to consume the contents of that seed package, anyway. *hint, don’t heat up the fat free cheeses — they end up in puddles*

Response:

| |I don’t think anyone thinks caffeine is "like water" but I doubt it is |on the level of a "dangerous substance". Physical addiction in of |itself I don’t think means it is dangerous. It may worsen some |pre-existing disease though, and people should be made aware of it. Interesting. I wonder if there are diseases that are directly caused by caffeine?

Well, caffeine is very similar to the compound used to treat asthma called theophylline (both are methylxanthines), and acts on the same target enzyme (phosphodiesterase). Theophylline is a potentially dangerous compound in high doses and in overdose can cause ionic imbalances in the body as well as heart rhythm disorders, seizures, agitation, vomitting and death. Now caffeine is much much safer than theophylline but as far as I can tell it produces some of the same qualitative effects in most people: – GI disturbances (diarrhoea or nausea) – agitation – palpitations – sympathetic stimulation |Also, I think there should be some regulation on all those "energy |drinks" like Red Bull. I sometimes take Red Bull myself and I often |experience palpitations, but that’s something I tolerate when I need |to be stimulated (late night on the wards, etc). What would be the criteria and if there are not any known pathologies to caffeine, what would be the precedence?

Well dehydration can be compounded by caffeine. All those kids taking ecstasy, downing shots of vodka and redbull while dancing the night away can proceed to severe dehydration and in one case in UK, death has occured. Now, I don’t think one should ban vodka, redbull or dancing so the public should be educated instead. I once met an Italian guy who drank 10 espressos a day, and he had atrial fibrillation (a heart rhythm disorder). While I don’t know if it was the cause, that much caffeine can’t have helped. |<Snipped the huge number of groups this was crossposted to Why?  And why did you keep the ones you left?

Well, my ISP news server told me I can’t send to so many newsgroups at once. I just removed the ones which were on the left. Nothing more than that.

Response:

Ouch!  Your poor sister!  Too true that they put this in a lot of products without mentioning it, people need to learn to read the ingredients on their items.  I know that I was surprised to find out what goes into making pearl fingernail polish, it grossed me out!  I never worried about it before (food) because I figured the government wouldn’t let it be sold if it wasn’t safe, but then you see all these fast weight loss products that say ‘not approved’ and you just have to wonder. I know that sometimes if I hadn’t had caffeine for a day or two that I would get a headache and it took me a while to figure out how come!  You are absolutely right that we all need to be aware, especially those with medical conditions that might need to avoid it! Hey, this is a silly other question but do you suppose that when we lose fat, and while on this program, that we could be losing brain cells too?  I just can’t help but wonder how a program such as WW could affect our brains. I mean, if we are losing everywhere else, are we losing there too?  The way my memory has gone kookoo since being on this program makes me wonder, lmao

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – James, for every single thing that is edible or drinkable, you can find someone somewhere who is convinced that item is bad for you!  Everything causes cancer, even water has been reported to cause it.  With all of this against us, how can we win?  Stop eating?  Naw….. Caffeine has been a part of my diet for as long as I can remember.  I was brought up on tea and after marriage I graduated to Coca Cola.  After beginning WW however, I did switch to Caffeine Free Diet Coke!  It took very little time.  I do drink French Vanilla Coffee every single day, am doing it now as a matter of fact.  But mostly I drink the soda.  Whether I drink an item that has caffeine in it or is caffeine free doesn’t bother me at all. Caffeine does not help me stay awake nor does it make me jittery.  I’ve seen shows on tv where they explained how a product was made caffeine free and that worried me more than having the caffeine.  But it is true that many women cannot drink caffeine as it causes lumps in their breast tissue. Knowing all of this, I eat what I like and drink what I like, within the boundaries of this program, naturally.  But I do not pay attention to anybody’s bad comments on a particular food product, except when someone here has tried something and says it’s good.  I’ll try it then.  Doesn’t mean I’ll like it as we all have different tastes, but I’m willing to try. I never advocated banning caffeine. I don’t think it is dangerous to the average person, I just think the public should be made aware that caffeine is also a drug like alcohol or nicotine and all drugs have side-efects. This doesn’t mean "don’t take it", it just means "be aware of it". Be aware that the weekly headache may be due to caffeine, be aware that you get dehydrated with caffeine, be aware that if you are hyperthyroid you are more prone to palpitations with caffeine. Also, people need to be aware that caffeine of various doses is in all sorts of things we may not realise One example: my sister had a bad flu & headache, so she went out and bought "Panadol Extra" (paracetemol also known as acetaminophen in USA, plus caffeine) to reduce her headache. However, she did not realise that the word "EXTRA" in it meant they added caffeine, and the formulation was targetted at people with flu & headaches who need to continue working. As a result, she couldn’t sleep all night and had a worse headache in the morning. Took more of the tablets, and this just worsened it with each day. She thought she had some serious illness and so asked me for advice. One quick glance at the box and I saw how much caffeine was in it and told her that was the problem not her flu. It’s just a lesson that caffeine does affect people and people should be made aware of it. Not because it should banned or regulated but simply so that the layperson can make better decisions about their lifestyle. – James Competing interests: I have drunk coffee since I was 6 years old and continue to do so when I need to stay up on-call. I use caffeine tablets and other energy drinks as well.

Response:

| |I don’t think anyone thinks caffeine is "like water" but I doubt it is |on the level of a "dangerous substance". Physical addiction in of |itself I don’t think means it is dangerous. It may worsen some |pre-existing disease though, and people should be made aware of it. Interesting. I wonder if there are diseases that are directly caused by caffeine? |Also, I think there should be some regulation on all those "energy |drinks" like Red Bull. I sometimes take Red Bull myself and I often |experience palpitations, but that’s something I tolerate when I need |to be stimulated (late night on the wards, etc). What would be the criteria and if there are not any known pathologies to caffeine, what would be the precedence? |<Snipped the huge number of groups this was crossposted to Why?  And why did you keep the ones you left?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – James, for every single thing that is edible or drinkable, you can find someone somewhere who is convinced that item is bad for you!  Everything causes cancer, even water has been reported to cause it.  With all of this against us, how can we win?  Stop eating?  Naw….. Caffeine has been a part of my diet for as long as I can remember.  I was brought up on tea and after marriage I graduated to Coca Cola.  After beginning WW however, I did switch to Caffeine Free Diet Coke!  It took very little time.  I do drink French Vanilla Coffee every single day, am doing it now as a matter of fact.  But mostly I drink the soda.  Whether I drink an item that has caffeine in it or is caffeine free doesn’t bother me at all. Caffeine does not help me stay awake nor does it make me jittery.  I’ve seen shows on tv where they explained how a product was made caffeine free and that worried me more than having the caffeine.  But it is true that many women cannot drink caffeine as it causes lumps in their breast tissue. Knowing all of this, I eat what I like and drink what I like, within the boundaries of this program, naturally.  But I do not pay attention to anybody’s bad comments on a particular food product, except when someone here has tried something and says it’s good.  I’ll try it then.  Doesn’t mean I’ll like it as we all have different tastes, but I’m willing to try.

I never advocated banning caffeine. I don’t think it is dangerous to the average person, I just think the public should be made aware that caffeine is also a drug like alcohol or nicotine and all drugs have side-efects. This doesn’t mean "don’t take it", it just means "be aware of it". Be aware that the weekly headache may be due to caffeine, be aware that you get dehydrated with caffeine, be aware that if you are hyperthyroid you are more prone to palpitations with caffeine. Also, people need to be aware that caffeine of various doses is in all sorts of things we may not realise One example: my sister had a bad flu & headache, so she went out and bought "Panadol Extra" (paracetemol also known as acetaminophen in USA, plus caffeine) to reduce her headache. However, she did not realise that the word "EXTRA" in it meant they added caffeine, and the formulation was targetted at people with flu & headaches who need to continue working. As a result, she couldn’t sleep all night and had a worse headache in the morning. Took more of the tablets, and this just worsened it with each day. She thought she had some serious illness and so asked me for advice. One quick glance at the box and I saw how much caffeine was in it and told her that was the problem not her flu. It’s just a lesson that caffeine does affect people and people should be made aware of it. Not because it should banned or regulated but simply so that the layperson can make better decisions about their lifestyle. – James Competing interests: I have drunk coffee since I was 6 years old and continue to do so when I need to stay up on-call. I use caffeine tablets and other energy drinks as well.

Response:

James, for every single thing that is edible or drinkable, you can find someone somewhere who is convinced that item is bad for you!  Everything causes cancer, even water has been reported to cause it.  With all of this against us, how can we win?  Stop eating?  Naw….. Caffeine has been a part of my diet for as long as I can remember.  I was brought up on tea and after marriage I graduated to Coca Cola.  After beginning WW however, I did switch to Caffeine Free Diet Coke!  It took very little time.  I do drink French Vanilla Coffee every single day, am doing it now as a matter of fact.  But mostly I drink the soda.  Whether I drink an item that has caffeine in it or is caffeine free doesn’t bother me at all. Caffeine does not help me stay awake nor does it make me jittery.  I’ve seen shows on tv where they explained how a product was made caffeine free and that worried me more than having the caffeine.  But it is true that many women cannot drink caffeine as it causes lumps in their breast tissue. Knowing all of this, I eat what I like and drink what I like, within the boundaries of this program, naturally.  But I do not pay attention to anybody’s bad comments on a particular food product, except when someone here has tried something and says it’s good.  I’ll try it then.  Doesn’t mean I’ll like it as we all have different tastes, but I’m willing to try. Today I’m trying two new recipes!  One is for apple pie and the other is for my favorite all time veggie, squash casserole!  I had no idea I could have these as the casserole has cheese in it, but hey, I’ve got the fat free kind so I’m trying it today

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently engaged in a very compelling conversation with someone who had quit smoking and caffeine at the same time.  He claimed that caffeine was much more difficult to curb his appetite for.  He also indicated his diet was never under his control until he removed the excessive caffeine intake. With the preponderance of soda, tea and coffees as socially approved and acceptable substitutes for water, or as stimulants, I am inquiring if there are others out there In UsenetLand that have found caffeine to either be a major stumbling block to weight loss and weight control and/or as an addictive a substance as this gentleman has described. Is caffeine a missed frontier in our efforts to inform the public of the dangers in the typical American and international diet?  Is Starbucks nothing more than a present day Moloko bar? I find that based on my personal experience caffeine does fulfil most of the criteria for physical dependence: – need for increasing doses of caffeine to achieve the same result – withdrawal periods when without caffeine. However, I don’t have a psychological addiction, as I have little problems taking holidays from caffeine regularly (I do it so that I keep myself sensitised when I do need caffeine on late nights). I don’t think anyone thinks caffeine is "like water" but I doubt it is on the level of a "dangerous substance". Physical addiction in of itself I don’t think means it is dangerous. It may worsen some pre-existing disease though, and people should be made aware of it. Also, I think there should be some regulation on all those "energy drinks" like Red Bull. I sometimes take Red Bull myself and I often experience palpitations, but that’s something I tolerate when I need to be stimulated (late night on the wards, etc). <Snipped the huge number of groups this was crossposted to

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently engaged in a very compelling conversation with someone who had quit smoking and caffeine at the same time.  He claimed that caffeine was much more difficult to curb his appetite for.  He also indicated his diet was never under his control until he removed the excessive caffeine intake. With the preponderance of soda, tea and coffees as socially approved and acceptable substitutes for water, or as stimulants, I am inquiring if there are others out there In UsenetLand that have found caffeine to either be a major stumbling block to weight loss and weight control and/or as an addictive a substance as this gentleman has described. Is caffeine a missed frontier in our efforts to inform the public of the dangers in the typical American and international diet?  Is Starbucks nothing more than a present day Moloko bar?

I find that based on my personal experience caffeine does fulfil most of the criteria for physical dependence: – need for increasing doses of caffeine to achieve the same result – withdrawal periods when without caffeine. However, I don’t have a psychological addiction, as I have little problems taking holidays from caffeine regularly (I do it so that I keep myself sensitised when I do need caffeine on late nights). I don’t think anyone thinks caffeine is "like water" but I doubt it is on the level of a "dangerous substance". Physical addiction in of itself I don’t think means it is dangerous. It may worsen some pre-existing disease though, and people should be made aware of it. Also, I think there should be some regulation on all those "energy drinks" like Red Bull. I sometimes take Red Bull myself and I often experience palpitations, but that’s something I tolerate when I need to be stimulated (late night on the wards, etc). <Snipped the huge number of groups this was crossposted to

Response:

Question:

X-No-Archive: yes You may be experiencing breakthrough anxiety symptoms which you are confusing with asthma. Good point. The other day I tried taking a whole tablet (.5 mg) and my asthma didn’t seem to bother me at all. Yet today I took .25 mgs in the morning, and that seemed to flare up my asthma big-time. Maybe a higher dose would solve the problem by preventing the anxiety from "breaking through."

I think you have found a solution. Take care, Meryl

Response:

.If you have a spirometer you use to keep your asthma under control use it.

Is it suitable for children. — Mark Brown

Response:

Is it suitable for children.

yes, they make smaller units for the pulmonary functioning abilities of pediatrics LM

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes You could stop the Xanax and see if the asthma goes away. Then you’ll know if Xanax is the culprit. Unfortunately, it’s not that simple. When I stop taking the Xanax for a few days, my asthma seems to improve significantly (less tightness in chest, yawning, and shortness of breath), although my asthma still bothers me a little (it didn’t bother me at all before I started taking this med). The problem is that my severe anxiety is about my health. If I start worrying about my kidneys, then suddenly my lower back starts to hurt, and I have other symptoms of renal failure (fatigue, nausea, etc.) If I start worrying about my heart, I feel like I’m having heart palpitations? I guess you could say that I’m a classic hypochondriac. Sometimes I get so worked up about a disease/disorder, having reading about it on the net, that my hands begin to tremble, and I start pacing around my house in a state of agitation. I become so terrified and depressed. I can’t even sort out which fears are rational, and which are irrational anymore. And every time I take a Xanax, I start worrying that I am allergic to it, and that I will have to stop taking it (which upsets me, because it really does help with the anxiety). I can’t tell if the difficulty breathing is due to the Xanax, or my anxiety about the Xanax. This sucks! Even anti-anxiety medicine is a source of anxiety for me! I should also mention that I am on Effexor XR, 75mg daily, which helps some, but not enough.

It’s very unlikely you are allergic to Xanax. Once you get your anxiety level way down with Xanax and Effexor, you will stop focusing on your body (hypochondriasis). Chip

Response:

Well you’ve taught me something Boyd. Meryl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A Peak flow meter is what it is called here, too, I just used the more technical term because I didn’t know what they were called elsewhere, and assumed that an expert could sort it out. Boyd : Hi Boyd, : In Australia we call a spirometer a peak flow monitor and they are available : otc. There is one somewhere in this house. I bought it for my daughter. : Meryl : : I have severe asthma. I also use a healthy dose of Benzos. Klonopin 4MG : per : day. I have seen no connection with asthma. Anxiety causes shortness of : breath that closely simulates asthma. If you are just starting a new med, : it : may be part of the anxiety of weaning on.If you have a spirometer you use : to : keep your asthma under control use it. If it shows OK, then it is just : anxiety. You can also use your "rescue" inhaler. If it doesn’t do : anything, : again it is anxiety. I think everybody with either asthma, or anxiety with : shortness of breath as a symptom should have a spirometer. They are cheap, : but in the U.S., for some reason they are a prescription item. Any Dr can : prescribe one. : Boyd : : : X-No-Archive: yes : : needed : for : : severe anxiety. After a week of treatment, I began yawning every few : minutes : : and felt a tightness in my chest (sensation I get when my asthma is : acting : up). : : I went to see my physician, and he said that the Xanax probably wasn’t : causing : : these symptoms. "It is just your mold and other allergies acting up, : because : : it’s the spring," he said. However, I still suspect the medicine is to : blame, : : but it is really effective in alleviating my anxiety. My question is, : are : : adverse reactions (involving the respiratory system) to Xanax common? : Why : would : : benzodiazepines worsen my asthma? Thanks. : : : :

Response:

A Peak flow meter is what it is called here, too, I just used the more technical term because I didn’t know what they were called elsewhere, and assumed that an expert could sort it out. Boyd

: Hi Boyd, : In Australia we call a spirometer a peak flow monitor and they are available : otc. There is one somewhere in this house. I bought it for my daughter. : Meryl : : I have severe asthma. I also use a healthy dose of Benzos. Klonopin 4MG : per : day. I have seen no connection with asthma. Anxiety causes shortness of : breath that closely simulates asthma. If you are just starting a new med, : it : may be part of the anxiety of weaning on.If you have a spirometer you use : to : keep your asthma under control use it. If it shows OK, then it is just : anxiety. You can also use your "rescue" inhaler. If it doesn’t do : anything, : again it is anxiety. I think everybody with either asthma, or anxiety with : shortness of breath as a symptom should have a spirometer. They are cheap, : but in the U.S., for some reason they are a prescription item. Any Dr can : prescribe one. : Boyd : : : X-No-Archive: yes : : : for : : severe anxiety. After a week of treatment, I began yawning every few : minutes : : and felt a tightness in my chest (sensation I get when my asthma is : acting : up). : : I went to see my physician, and he said that the Xanax probably wasn’t : causing : : these symptoms. "It is just your mold and other allergies acting up, : because : : it’s the spring," he said. However, I still suspect the medicine is to : blame, : : but it is really effective in alleviating my anxiety. My question is, : are : : adverse reactions (involving the respiratory system) to Xanax common? : Why : would : : benzodiazepines worsen my asthma? Thanks. : : : :

Response:

Hi I have mild asthma and I have taken Xanax daily for 7 years. I agree with your physician here. Xanax has not affected my asthma at all. I treat asthma with my asthma medication, while continuing taking Xanax for anxiety. BTW your dosage of Xanax is very low. You may be experiencing breakthrough anxiety symptoms which you are confusing with asthma. Take care, Meryl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes severe anxiety. After a week of treatment, I began yawning every few minutes and felt a tightness in my chest (sensation I get when my asthma is acting up). I went to see my physician, and he said that the Xanax probably wasn’t causing these symptoms. "It is just your mold and other allergies acting up, because it’s the spring," he said. However, I still suspect the medicine is to blame, but it is really effective in alleviating my anxiety. My question is, are adverse reactions (involving the respiratory system) to Xanax common? Why would benzodiazepines worsen my asthma? Thanks.

Response:

Hi Boyd, In Australia we call a spirometer a peak flow monitor and they are available otc. There is one somewhere in this house. I bought it for my daughter. Meryl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have severe asthma. I also use a healthy dose of Benzos. Klonopin 4MG per day. I have seen no connection with asthma. Anxiety causes shortness of breath that closely simulates asthma. If you are just starting a new med, it may be part of the anxiety of weaning on.If you have a spirometer you use to keep your asthma under control use it. If it shows OK, then it is just anxiety. You can also use your "rescue" inhaler. If it doesn’t do anything, again it is anxiety. I think everybody with either asthma, or anxiety with shortness of breath as a symptom should have a spirometer. They are cheap, but in the U.S., for some reason they are a prescription item. Any Dr can prescribe one. Boyd : X-No-Archive: yes : for : severe anxiety. After a week of treatment, I began yawning every few minutes : and felt a tightness in my chest (sensation I get when my asthma is acting up). : I went to see my physician, and he said that the Xanax probably wasn’t causing : these symptoms. "It is just your mold and other allergies acting up, because : it’s the spring," he said. However, I still suspect the medicine is to blame, : but it is really effective in alleviating my anxiety. My question is, are : adverse reactions (involving the respiratory system) to Xanax common? Why would : benzodiazepines worsen my asthma? Thanks.

Response:

I think everybody with either asthma, or anxiety with shortness of breath as a symptom should have a spirometer. They are cheap, but in the U.S., for some reason they are a prescription item. Any Dr can prescribe one.

What does it do? I could do with another toy in my "first aid" bag… Can it tell when you’re hyperventilating? I can’t half of the time, then I start yawning. Vashti

Response:

It gives a reading in liters per minute of how much you can breathe out. You give a hard puff into it, and a little part moves to show the reading, Use the best of 3 tries. Since it gives you something to do, and helps eliminate a possible real problem, it is quite useful for anxiety.      No asthmatic should be without one. I use my medications to keep my readings within a certain range, and with it’s help, and good medications, I have not had a serious attack in well over a year. Before that I had two attacks that put me into the hospital for 17 days total! Since I have an HMO and it was the HMO’s hospital, that means I was SICK! Boyd

: : I think everybody with either asthma, or anxiety with : shortness of breath as a symptom should have a spirometer. They : are cheap, but in the U.S., for some reason they are a : prescription item. Any Dr can prescribe one. : : What does it do? : : I could do with another toy in my "first aid" bag… : Can it tell when you’re hyperventilating? I can’t half : of the time, then I start yawning. : : Vashti

Response:

X-No-Archive: yes

hey, what does this mean? Obie 9 please don’t send me email – everything is filtered Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes severe anxiety. After a week of treatment, I began yawning every few minutes and felt a tightness in my chest (sensation I get when my asthma is acting up). I went to see my physician, and he said that the Xanax probably wasn’t causing these symptoms. "It is just your mold and other allergies acting up, because it’s the spring," he said. However, I still suspect the medicine is to blame, but it is really effective in alleviating my anxiety. My question is, are adverse reactions (involving the respiratory system) to Xanax common? Why would benzodiazepines worsen my asthma? Thanks.

You could stop the Xanax and see if the asthma goes away. Then you’ll know if Xanax is the culprit. Chip

Response:

I have severe asthma. I also use a healthy dose of Benzos. Klonopin 4MG per day. I have seen no connection with asthma. Anxiety causes shortness of breath that closely simulates asthma. If you are just starting a new med, it may be part of the anxiety of weaning on.If you have a spirometer you use to keep your asthma under control use it. If it shows OK, then it is just anxiety. You can also use your "rescue" inhaler. If it doesn’t do anything, again it is anxiety. I think everybody with either asthma, or anxiety with shortness of breath as a symptom should have a spirometer. They are cheap, but in the U.S., for some reason they are a prescription item. Any Dr can prescribe one. Boyd

: X-No-Archive: yes : : severe anxiety. After a week of treatment, I began yawning every few minutes : and felt a tightness in my chest (sensation I get when my asthma is acting up). : I went to see my physician, and he said that the Xanax probably wasn’t causing : these symptoms. "It is just your mold and other allergies acting up, because : it’s the spring," he said. However, I still suspect the medicine is to blame, : but it is really effective in alleviating my anxiety. My question is, are : adverse reactions (involving the respiratory system) to Xanax common? Why would : benzodiazepines worsen my asthma? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

I was recently  hospitalized for 2 weeks with asthma, bronchitis and MRSA (multiresistent staph infection}.  I was on IV solumedrol and IV antibiotics. I am home now, back on Flovent, Servent and Singular and use the nebulizer only if I need it.   I am still on Prednizone. I am being cut down on Prednizone by 5mg. every 3 days.  My insides feel shaky yet I feel totally exhausted. Do most people cut down on Prednizone by 5mg. every 3 days?  My mood does not seem to be normal, I am feeling really edgy. I keep resting throughout the day.  I am wondering how long will it take before I feel like myself and can get back to work again.  When I ask the doctor he keeps telling me he does not want me to go back to work yet becuse he is afaid I will relapse.  As I have told him I am self employed and want to get back to work as soon as possible. Peg

Response:

When you are on Prednizone you have to taper down slowly. When I was on prednizone I was also shaky, exhausted and very hyper. The side effects will decrease as you decrease the dose and go away when you are almost done, or off the prednizone. good luck, sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was recently  hospitalized for 2 weeks with asthma, bronchitis and MRSA (multiresistent staph infection}.  I was on IV solumedrol and IV antibiotics. I am home now, back on Flovent, Servent and Singular and use the nebulizer only if I need it. I am still on Prednizone. I am being cut down on Prednizone by 5mg. every 3 days.  My insides feel shaky yet I feel totally exhausted. Do most people cut down on Prednizone by 5mg. every 3 days?  My mood does not seem to be normal, I am feeling really edgy. I keep resting throughout the day.  I am wondering how long will it take before I feel like myself and can get back to work again.  When I ask the doctor he keeps telling me he does not want me to go back to work yet becuse he is afaid I will relapse.  As I have told him I am self employed and want to get back to work as soon as possible. Peg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was recently  hospitalized for 2 weeks with asthma, bronchitis and MRSA (multiresistent staph infection}.  I was on IV solumedrol and IV antibiotics. I am home now, back on Flovent, Servent and Singular and use the nebulizer only if I need it. I am still on Prednizone. I am being cut down on Prednizone by 5mg. every 3 days.  My insides feel shaky yet I feel totally exhausted. Do most people cut down on Prednizone by 5mg. every 3 days?  My mood does not seem to be normal, I am feeling really edgy. I keep resting throughout the day.  I am wondering how long will it take before I feel like myself and can get back to work again.  When I ask the doctor he keeps telling me he does not want me to go back to work yet becuse he is afaid I will relapse.  As I have told him I am self employed and want to get back to work as soon as possible. Peg

Tapering off oral steroids is a downer. The rapidity of tapering depends on how long you were on the steroids and what dose you were taking. Your body needs about 5 mg per day of steroids, which normally come from the adrenal glands. Gradually reducing the oral dose encourges your body to start making the steroids again. Often alternate day therapy is used near the end of the taper. For example when you get to 15 mg/day, go to 30 mg every other day and taper down from there. For oral steroid durations of 10 days or less, it us usually recommended to quit cold turkey. Note that steroids are an immunosuppressant, which makes it harder for your body to fight off infection. Ellis

Response:

Ellis wrote <<<…Your body needs about 5 mg per day of steroids, which normally come from the adrenal glands… Hmm, 5 mg.  Can you come up with a reference on this ?  Or is this common knowledge I don’ happen to have? Thanks—jack

Response:

Ellis wrote <<<…Your body needs about 5 mg per day of steroids, which normally come from the adrenal glands… Hmm, 5 mg.  Can you come up with a reference on this ?  Or is this common knowledge I don’ happen to have?

I’ve seen that figure, that the normal (non-stressed) adrenal output is equivalent to about 5mg per day, quotes in many places. This type of "textbook" information may be hard to find on-line. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ellis wrote <<<…Your body needs about 5 mg per day of steroids, which normally come from the adrenal glands… Hmm, 5 mg.  Can you come up with a reference on this ?  Or is this common knowledge I don’ happen to have? I’ve seen that figure, that the normal (non-stressed) adrenal output is equivalent to about 5mg per day, quotes in many places. This type of "textbook" information may be hard to find on-line. — CBI, MD

It’s what I have always used as a normal figure.      Larry

Response:

I’ve had to use Prednisone on and off for about 15 years.  Typically, I would be given 40 – 60 mg initially for 5 days, then taper down 10 or 20 mg for 5 days, and keep going in increments of 5 days until down to 5 or 10 mg, then stop. Once or twice I was given 40 – 60 mg for 5 days, then stop. I seem to have been as well off either way. Is there a consensus on this, or, is it up to each doctor? Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was recently  hospitalized for 2 weeks with asthma, bronchitis and MRSA (multiresistent staph infection}.  I was on IV solumedrol and IV antibiotics. I am home now, back on Flovent, Servent and Singular and use the nebulizer only if I need it. I am still on Prednizone. I am being cut down on Prednizone by 5mg. every 3 days.  My insides feel shaky yet I feel totally exhausted. Do most people cut down on Prednizone by 5mg. every 3 days?  My mood does not seem to be normal, I am feeling really edgy. I keep resting throughout the day.  I am wondering how long will it take before I feel like myself and can get back to work again.  When I ask the doctor he keeps telling me he does not want me to go back to work yet becuse he is afaid I will relapse.  As I have told him I am self employed and want to get back to work as soon as possible. Peg Tapering off oral steroids is a downer. The rapidity of tapering depends on how long you were on the steroids and what dose you were taking. Your body needs about 5 mg per day of steroids, which normally come from the adrenal glands. Gradually reducing the oral dose encourges your body to start making the steroids again. Often alternate day therapy is used near the end of the taper. For example when you get to 15 mg/day, go to 30 mg every other day and taper down from there. For oral steroid durations of 10 days or less, it us usually recommended to quit cold turkey. Note that steroids are an immunosuppressant, which makes it harder for your body to fight off infection. Ellis

Response:

I’ve had to use Prednisone on and off for about 15 years.  Typically, I would be given 40 – 60 mg initially for 5 days, then taper down 10 or 20 mg for 5 days, and keep going in increments of 5 days until down to 5 or 10 mg, then stop. Once or twice I was given 40 – 60 mg for 5 days, then stop.

More safe is to taper down as you’ve described above as stop immediately, although five days  ’in theory’ seems to be to less, to bring to a stop with suprarenal glands secreting. P. —- [http://www.am.torun.pl/~pekasz]

Response:

I’ve had to use Prednisone on and off for about 15 years.  Typically, I would be given 40 – 60 mg initially for 5 days, then taper down 10 or 20 mg for 5 days, and keep going in increments of 5 days until down to 5 or 10 mg, then stop. Once or twice I was given 40 – 60 mg for 5 days, then stop. More safe is to taper down as you’ve described above as stop immediately, although five days  ’in theory’ seems to be to less, to bring to a stop with suprarenal glands secreting.

Taking steroids for 5 days should not cause adrenal suppression and so it should be safe to stop without a taper from this perspective. If you have had steroids other times recently there is a theoretical risk of adrenal suppression but it is not seen much in clinical practice. The most common reason to taper the steroids after 5 days is to help prevent a flare of the asthma. CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

Taking steroids for 5 days should not cause adrenal suppression and so it should be safe to stop without a taper from this perspective. If you have had steroids other times recently there is a theoretical risk of adrenal suppression but it is not seen much in clinical practice. The most common reason to taper the steroids after 5 days is to help prevent a flare of the asthma. CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Hey everyone – Just to let you know, I recently completed a study for another Flovent-type med, which frankly didn’t work as well for me. Anyway, one of the things I had to do was have my blood checked before and after being injected with stuff that made your adrenal glands work so they could find out if they still work or not. I’ve been on steroids daily for about 5 years.  Amazingly, mine still work, and work pretty well.  My doc was amazed, and I was pretty happy! Just so you know that steroids wont always totally ruin your adrenal glands. Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking steroids for 5 days should not cause adrenal suppression and so it should be safe to stop without a taper from this perspective. If you have had steroids other times recently there is a theoretical risk of adrenal suppression but it is not seen much in clinical practice. The most common reason to taper the steroids after 5 days is to help prevent a flare of the asthma. CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide Hey everyone – Just to let you know, I recently completed a study for another Flovent-type med, which frankly didn’t work as well for me. Anyway, one of the things I had to do was have my blood checked before and after being injected with stuff that made your adrenal glands work so they could find out if they still work or not. I’ve been on steroids daily for about 5 years.  Amazingly, mine still work, and work pretty well.  My doc was amazed, and I was pretty happy! Just so you know that steroids wont always totally ruin your adrenal glands.

Please tell us about your dosage over the five years.      Larry

Response:

Just so you know that steroids wont always totally ruin your adrenal glands.

inhaled in standard dosage have no infuence on adrenal glands but ORAL YES. Flovent is inhaled form of steroid. There was only one case described of  adrenal failure after swiching Flovent 2000mkg daily into Budesonide 800mkg daily – both inhaled! I have got this information from Docguide Internet service. P. —- [http://www.am.torun.pl/~pekasz]

Response:

The most common reason to taper the steroids after 5 days is to help prevent a flare of the asthma.

good remark THX P. —- [http://www.am.torun.pl/~pekasz]

Response:

Does anyone have any research on the effects of Glutathione? I did a search on www.hotbot.com and a few things I found caught my attention. Can someone get me more info? I have 4 kids and a wife who have asthma and I want to put them on a natural suppliment someone showed me. These links go to the things I have read about Glutathione. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… ds=10713031&dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… ds=2913886&dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… ds=10541451&dopt=Abstract http://www.studentbmj.com/back_issues/0500/news/96b.html What can anyone tell me of their own experience?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking steroids for 5 days should not cause adrenal suppression and so it should be safe to stop without a taper from this perspective. If you have had steroids other times recently there is a theoretical risk of adrenal suppression but it is not seen much in clinical practice. The most common reason to taper the steroids after 5 days is to help prevent a flare of the asthma. CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide Hey everyone – Just to let you know, I recently completed a study for another Flovent-type med, which frankly didn’t work as well for me. Anyway, one of the things I had to do was have my blood checked before and after being injected with stuff that made your adrenal glands work so they could find out if they still work or not. I’ve been on steroids daily for about 5 years.  Amazingly, mine still work, and work pretty well.  My doc was amazed, and I was pretty happy! Just so you know that steroids wont always totally ruin your adrenal glands. Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

Response:

Does anyone have any research on the effects of Glutathione? I did a search on www.hotbot.com and a few things I found caught my attention. Can someone get me more info? I have 4 kids and a wife who have asthma and I want to put them on a natural suppliment someone showed me.

If the stuff worked, your doctor would be the one recommending it. First of all I would suggest that you ask the people who make the supplement for the results of the human safety testing.  Do you want to give your family drugs that have never been tested to see if they are safe?  (Note: supplements are exempt for the basic consumer safety law that they be tested for human safety.) Another thing to remember is that ‘natural’ does not necessarily equate to ‘better’ or even ‘a good idea.’  This is nothing more than marketing hype. When you look at Medline articles you should be scanning for this critical phrase: ". . . is a safe and effective treatment for . . .". Any phrase indicating "further study is needed" means that they do not know if the treatment really works. Please note: There have been studies to determine if oral antioxidants can be used to treat asthma.  The results were that it does not.  In fact the study indicated that in order to be effective the drug must be delivered via MDI and that even then the benefits were inferior to existing therapies. These links go to the things I have read about Glutathione. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… ds=10713031&dopt=Abstract

This is worthless as evidence.  Since this trial was on one person, we have no idea if the drug had any effect or if the asthma got better on its own. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… ds=2913886&dopt=Abstract

The disease mentioned is not asthma. "With Confidence in our Armed Forces –  with the determination of our people –  we will gain the inevitable triumph –  so help us god."   Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

Please tell us about your dosage over the five years.     Larry

My dosages have run from an all time high of 90mg to the low now of 10mg. I think I was on 30mg the longest.  Like I said, my doc was as surprised as I was that my glands are still working as well as they are – not normal, but better than they thought they would. Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

Response:

Actually, MRSA stands for Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus aureus. — DeLores Wilson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was recently  hospitalized for 2 weeks with asthma, bronchitis and MRSA (multiresistent staph infection}.  

Response:

Question:

Hi Ace: Xenadrine is made from Aspirin, Ephedrine and Caffeine I believe in specific proportions.

Primatine mist (which I used to use) also contains ephedrine…it’s probably the chemical that is responsible for your lack of asthma symptoms.  As others have replied, though, it’s a form of adrenaline and can jack up your heart rate, and can potentially cause other bad side effects.  I’d stay away from it, esp. during exercise. Jim

Response:

Hi Ace: Xenadrine is made from Aspirin, Ephedrine and Caffeine I believe in specific proportions. Primatine mist (which I used to use) also contains ephedrine…it’s probably the chemical that is responsible for your lack of asthma symptoms.  As others have replied, though, it’s a form of adrenaline and can jack up your heart rate, and can potentially cause other bad side effects.  I’d stay away from it, esp. during exercise.

IIRC the drug in Primatine is epinephrine.  (Synthetic adrenalin.) "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

Response:

I’m not a supporter of Xenadrine of ephedrine or anything but I used it and lost 15 pounds (it really helps with those snack cravings!) and while I was on it I was able to run and had no problems with asthma,  so it was nice.  I think maybe at lower doses it might not be as bad as all these Dr’s are saying?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . . . I’m not here to promote Xenadrine. As a matter of fact I couldn’t even tell you if it’s any good for weight loss. I’m gaining muscle mass as I progress. My question to anyone knowledgeable would be what would generate such an effect? Xenadrine is made from Aspirin, Ephedrine and Caffeine I believe in specific proportions. Both the ephedrine and caffeine have bronchodilator effects as your rescue inhaler (albuterol) does. The ancient Chinese were using the ephedra herb to treat asthma thousands of years ago. The reason why doctors prefer the newer bronchodilators (like albuterol) over ephedrine, is that they have far fewer side effects and are safer. And if you are using BOTH Xenadrine and an albuterol inhaler concurrently, then you are greatly increasing your risk of dangerous side effects. If Xenadrine contains aspirin, ephedrine and caffeine, then it’s a DRUG, not a "supplement"–and a hazardous drug at that.  People have DIED from excess ephedrine. — Steven D. Litvintchouk

Response:

I’m not a supporter of Xenadrine of ephedrine or anything but I used it and lost 15 pounds (it really helps with those snack cravings!) and while I was on it I was able to run and had no problems with asthma,  so it was nice.  I think maybe at lower doses it might not be as bad as all these Dr’s are saying?

The stuff is ineffective at ’safe’ dosages. (One of the reasons the FDA has been trying to get it banned.) BTW, if you want to be shocked – contact the manufacturer and ask to see the documentation relating to any testing that occurred to ensure that the product is safe at the recommended dosages.  (There won’t be any.) "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

Response:

Correction, what I meant to say is that when I use inhalers I have chest pain and I welcomed that while using the Xenadrine I didn’t have it anymore.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t have severe pain in my lungs from the inhalants contained in the Serevent, Flovent etc. so "safe" is not a word I’d use to describe the asthma treatments on the market that I’ve been exposed to thus far. How safe can it be to basically inhale medication with a propellant equivalent to spray can?  They do work as far as helping prevent attacks however I’m open to trying other things that can help without the side effects of the current drugs I’m on. I don’t advocate that people use Xenadrine or any other Ma Huang product,  just was posting my personal experience. Kathy So you are using a supplement that contains a drug that is known not to be safe, in favor of a medication that is known to be safe? "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

Response:

I personally believe that Ma Huang is only dangerous when it is overused by people and fwiw it is not a "drug", it is an herb that has been used for ages in other cultures.

It is a drug by the dictionary definition: "Any substance that affects the physical or mental functioning of a living organism." Opium is also a drug, though naturally occurring.         Larry

Response:

I personally believe that Ma Huang is only dangerous when it is overused by people and fwiw it is not a "drug", it is an herb that has been used for ages in other cultures.

The active ingredient in the ephedra herb is ephedrine.  Ephedrine is a drug. How safe can it be to basically inhale medication with a propellant equivalent to spray can?

There’s a good REASON why inhaled bronchodilators were developed.  These drugs affect the beta-adrenergic receptors that control bronchial constriction/dilation, with significantly less side-effects affecting the alpha-adrenergic receptors that control other body functions. It’s safer to take a drug that is better targeted at the specific part of the body you want to help (the airways in this case), rather than one that has systemic side effects all over the body (such as ephedrine). There’s no evidence the propellant is risky to inhale when used as directed. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

I personally believe that Ma Huang is only dangerous when it is overused by people and fwiw it is not a "drug", it is an herb that has been used for ages in other cultures.

The FDA disagrees with you – and has a large amount of evidence (dead people mostly).   And Ma Huang contains the drug ephedrine.  When you use this herb you are getting this drug. When I tried it out (the Xenadrine), I didn’t take the recommended 2 pills and didn’t have a problem with heart rate increase like others may have.  I used it for over two weeks and during that time didn’t have to use my inhalers at all.

With that much ephedrine in your system I’m not surprised.   Us Americans tend to overdo everything, if one pill is good then two, three and four might be better.  I’m not surprised in the least that people have had problems with it.  To me it’s the same with the PPA hoopla, the cold and flu products that contained PPA were by far the most effective over the counter products available and due to many people mis-using the product it is not on the market any longer.

You need to look into the reason that most people have problems with it.  The drug is a non-specific beta site agonist.   Let me guess, you have no idea how ephedrine works or what it does – right? BTW, since all you are doing is covering up the asthma symptoms – are you aware that you are at risk for permanent airways damage? I didn’t have severe pain in my lungs from the inhalants contained in the Serevent, Flovent etc. so "safe" is not a word I’d use to describe the asthma treatments on the market that I’ve been exposed to thus far.

IIRC there are no sensory nerves in the lungs.   How safe can it be to basically inhale medication with a propellant equivalent to spray can?  They do work as far as helping prevent attacks however I’m open to trying other things that can help without the side effects of the current drugs I’m on.

Actually, the propellent in inhaled mediations is not equalivalent to current spray cans.  The propellants in most inhaled medications is a CFC.  This chemical was chosen because it is completely inert in the human body. Besides, there are numerous ‘dry-powder’ inhalers currently on the marked which do not use propellants. I don’t advocate that people use Xenadrine or any other Ma Huang product,  just was posting my personal experience.

Which can harm others by making them thing that it is safe, effective or it can safely replace real medications. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kathy So you are using a supplement that contains a drug that is known not to be safe, in favor of a medication that is known to be safe? "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

"The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

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I personally believe that Ma Huang is only dangerous when it is overused by people and fwiw it is not a "drug", it is an herb that has been used for ages in other cultures.  When I tried it out (the Xenadrine), I didn’t take the recommended 2 pills and didn’t have a problem with heart rate increase like others may have.  I used it for over two weeks and during that time didn’t have to use my inhalers at all.  Us Americans tend to overdo everything, if one pill is good then two, three and four might be better.  I’m not surprised in the least that people have had problems with it.  To me it’s the same with the PPA hoopla, the cold and flu products that contained PPA were by far the most effective over the counter products available and due to many people mis-using the product it is not on the market any longer. I didn’t have severe pain in my lungs from the inhalants contained in the Serevent, Flovent etc. so "safe" is not a word I’d use to describe the asthma treatments on the market that I’ve been exposed to thus far. How safe can it be to basically inhale medication with a propellant equivalent to spray can?  They do work as far as helping prevent attacks however I’m open to trying other things that can help without the side effects of the current drugs I’m on. I don’t advocate that people use Xenadrine or any other Ma Huang product,  just was posting my personal experience. Kathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So you are using a supplement that contains a drug that is known not to be safe, in favor of a medication that is known to be safe? "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

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. . . . . I’m not here to promote Xenadrine. As a matter of fact I couldn’t even tell you if it’s any good for weight loss. I’m gaining muscle mass as I progress. My question to anyone knowledgeable would be what would generate such an effect? Xenadrine is made from Aspirin, Ephedrine and Caffeine I believe in specific proportions.

Both the ephedrine and caffeine have bronchodilator effects as your rescue inhaler (albuterol) does. The ancient Chinese were using the ephedra herb to treat asthma thousands of years ago. The reason why doctors prefer the newer bronchodilators (like albuterol) over ephedrine, is that they have far fewer side effects and are safer. And if you are using BOTH Xenadrine and an albuterol inhaler concurrently, then you are greatly increasing your risk of dangerous side effects. If Xenadrine contains aspirin, ephedrine and caffeine, then it’s a DRUG, not a "supplement"–and a hazardous drug at that.  People have DIED from excess ephedrine. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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Actually I too had great response with Xenadrine.  I originally took it as a weight loss aid 2 times a day and found that while I was on it I had no use for any inhalers of any kind.  It did cause a little bit of an increase in heart rate at the start but that goes away after 2-3 days.  Anything that helps me not use those inhalers is good IMO and this supplement improved my asthma tremendously.

So you are using a supplement that contains a drug that is known not to be safe, in favor of a medication that is known to be safe? "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

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Actually I too had great response with Xenadrine.  I originally took it as a weight loss aid 2 times a day and found that while I was on it I had no use for any inhalers of any kind.  It did cause a little bit of an increase in heart rate at the start but that goes away after 2-3 days.  Anything that helps me not use those inhalers is good IMO and this supplement improved my asthma tremendously. Just my .02. Kathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not here to promote Xenadrine. As a matter of fact I couldn’t even tell you if it’s any good for weight loss. I’m gaining muscle mass as I progress. My question to anyone knowledgeable would be what would generate such an effect? Xenadrine is made from Aspirin, Ephedrine and Caffeine I believe in specific proportions. Please don’t take my word for it and run out and buy this stuff hoping that it will help you run. I don’t know if it will or not. I’m just curious why does it help me. Thanks for reading. Because you are loading your body up with potentially dangerous amounts of ephedrine. The FDA has recommended that the ’safe’ limits on ephedrine usage be 8mg/dose, no more than 3 doses per day and do not use for more than one week. You will be much better off if you went to see your doctor about getting some medications that actually treat the asthma – instead of merely covering up the symptoms. "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

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I’m not here to promote Xenadrine. As a matter of fact I couldn’t even tell you if it’s any good for weight loss. I’m gaining muscle mass as I progress. My question to anyone knowledgeable would be what would generate such an effect? Xenadrine is made from Aspirin, Ephedrine and Caffeine I believe in specific proportions. Please don’t take my word for it and run out and buy this stuff hoping that it will help you run. I don’t know if it will or not. I’m just curious why does it help me. Thanks for reading.

Because you are loading your body up with potentially dangerous amounts of ephedrine. The FDA has recommended that the ’safe’ limits on ephedrine usage be 8mg/dose, no more than 3 doses per day and do not use for more than one week. You will be much better off if you went to see your doctor about getting some medications that actually treat the asthma – instead of merely covering up the symptoms. "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

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Hi everybody. I am not sure if this is a right place to post this message but I’ve been really curious. Basically the situation is as follows: Xenadrine RFA-1 is marketed as a weight loss supplement. I use it as an energy booster. I am an amateur bodybuilder at 19 year old. I had asthma since the age of 5 or 6. Anyways, I spend about 2 hours a day in the gym and as a warm up before lifting I run a mile on the treadmill. (Approximately taking about 7 and a half minutes) Obviously with asthma you know you can not run very far. That is the case when I was not taking Xenadrine. I had to use my inhaler before I run if I was to run the entire mile. Now when I took Xenadrine I once ran 2! miles just to see what happens because at the end of the first mile I was still able to breathe without the wheezing associated with asthma. Testing my theory I didn’t take Xenadrine for a few days and to my disappointment I had to use my inhaler after maybe half a mile. Going back on Xenadrine I could run my mile again without the inhaler. (Not only was I able to breathe there was no weezing either.) I’m not here to promote Xenadrine. As a matter of fact I couldn’t even tell you if it’s any good for weight loss. I’m gaining muscle mass as I progress. My question to anyone knowledgeable would be what would generate such an effect? Xenadrine is made from Aspirin, Ephedrine and Caffeine I believe in specific proportions. Please don’t take my word for it and run out and buy this stuff hoping that it will help you run. I don’t know if it will or not. I’m just curious why does it help me. Thanks for reading. Ace.

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Question:

Thanks for the information (however, you are still evil)

Why on Earth are you picking on LyndaNP? I thought you had your Lindas mixed up. Larry

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Thanks for the information (however, you are still evil)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The last step in dopamine synthesis is the decarboxylation of dihydroxypehenylalanine (L-DOPA) by the enzyme known as L-amino acid decarboxylase (LAAP). This enzyme is pyridoxine dependent, meaning that a deficiency in this vitamin will directly impact dopamine synthesis. The most common B-6 supplement is pyridoxine hydrochloride, but it really is a provitamin. It must be converted in the liver into pyridoxal-5-phosphate (P-5-P, or just P5P). Now that transformation is dependent on yet another enzyme system (two-steps), that rely on zinc. Some people therefore recommend the active form of B6 (P5P) to minimize the possibility that a functional deficiency in B6 exists, despite an adequate diet. Or, pyridoxine plus zinc supplementation (assuming normal liver function). The most likely external factors that cause B6 deficiency are alcohol consumption, and the use of theophylline to treat asthma. Larry

Thanks for the informative answer. What do you think would be a good dose to take? How much zinc? I want to take it as far as I can get, is there a maximum dose? My liver and kidneys are up to the task, I can assure you.. M99

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The last step in dopamine synthesis is the decarboxylation of dihydroxypehenylalanine (L-DOPA) by the enzyme known as L-amino acid decarboxylase (LAAP). This enzyme is pyridoxine dependent, meaning that a deficiency in this vitamin will directly impact dopamine synthesis. The most common B-6 supplement is pyridoxine hydrochloride, but it really is a provitamin. It must be converted in the liver into

pyridoxal-5-phosphate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (P-5-P, or just P5P). Now that transformation is dependent on yet another enzyme system (two-steps), that rely on zinc. Some people therefore recommend the active form of B6 (P5P) to minimize the possibility that a functional deficiency in B6 exists, despite an adequate diet. Or, pyridoxine plus zinc supplementation (assuming normal liver function). The most likely external factors that cause B6 deficiency are alcohol consumption, and the use of theophylline to treat asthma. Larry Thanks for the informative answer. What do you think would be a good dose to take? How much zinc? I want to take it as far as I can get, is there a maximum dose? My liver and kidneys are up to the task, I can assure you.. M99

There is a very important issue with B-vitamins that must be expressed quite clearly……taking a supplement of only one B-vitamin can cause deficiency symptoms in other B-vitamin dependent processes. In other words, taking B-6 can cause a functional B-12 deficiency, for example. That’s why B-vitamin complex is routinely available, and generally the recommended supplement form. It also happens that B-6 is one of the two B-vitamins for which toxic overdose has been identified, but that is very idiosyncratic. The toxic reaction to B-6 is peripheral neuropathy, characterized by tingling in the extremities. So, if you develop this symptom while taking B-6 at higher doses, cut back immediately, or the damage can become permanent (one case report in  Medline). OK. So your proceed at your own risk, fully informed. On top of a B-100 complex, you might take up to 300 mg/day pyridoxine. 100 mg/day zinc. An alternative is to skip the extra B-6, and take supplemental DLPA (d-,l-phenylalanine), or tyrosine, 3 g/day. Phenylalanine is a precursor for tyrosine, which is subsequently converted to DOPA, and then dopamine. The benefit of phenylalanine over tyrosine is that it has other possibly beneficial products, such as phenylethylamine, via the same B-6 dependent enzyme LAAD (there’s a typo in my first reply, where I inserted LAAP). Larry

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Larry you seem to know everything. I keep hearing of this vitamin, pyridoxine. What is it with this vit. B6 that makes it so beneficial? How does it interact with brain dopamine function?

Vitamin B6 is needed for the synthesis of neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine (1). These neurotransmitters are required for normal nerve cell communication. Researchers have been investigating the relationship between vitamin B6 status and a wide variety of neurologic conditions such as seizures, chronic pain, depression, headache, and Parkinson’s disease. Lower levels of serotonin have been found in individuals suffering from depression and migraine headaches. So far, however, vitamin B6 supplements have not proved effective for relieving these symptoms. One study found that a sugar pill was just as likely as vitamin B6 to relieve headaches and depression associated with low dose oral contraceptives Alcohol abuse can result in neuropathy, abnormal nerve sensations in the arms and legs . A poor dietary intake contributes to this neuropathy and dietary supplements that include vitamin B6 may prevent or decrease its incidence Anyone taking large doses of  needs to be aware that the Institute of Medicine recently established an upper tolerable limit of 100 mg per day for adults  There are documented cases in the literature of neuropathy caused by excessive vitamin B6 taken for treatment of carpal tunnel syndrome Here Is a food table: Table of Food Sources of Vitamin B6